jfk777
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BA A380 In Miami

Wed Nov 26, 2014 10:59 pm

BA announced they were flying the Whale Jet to Miami double daily next October. IF they use a gate a has been rumored in the AA concourse D all the way at the east end will they have to make the long Taxi to the south side of the airport to use trhe same runway Lufthansa uses for their A380 ? OR will be able to use the runway next to the north side of the airport most AA flights use. Or will they get a gate modified at concourse E for teh A380 ? Emirates is probably flying an A380 to Miami sooner then later, the demand on MIA capable A380 gates is increasing.
 
MesaFlyGuy
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:11 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Thread starter):
Emirates is probably flying an A380 to Miami sooner then later, the demand on MIA capable A380 gates is increasing.

Let's just get them to start MIA, then we'll worry about upguaging.  
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777Jet
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:18 pm

Quoting MesaFlyGuy (Reply 1):
Quoting jfk777 (Thread starter):
Emirates is probably flying an A380 to Miami sooner then later, the demand on MIA capable A380 gates is increasing.

Let's just get them to start MIA, then we'll worry about upguaging.

        

Any chance they will launch MIA with the A380 to take it to Qatar?  

Has EK ever launched a new route with the A380?

I may be dreaming, but I'd love to see this - and this is the type of message EK is good at sending...
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jeffh747
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:25 am

Quoting jfk777 (Thread starter):
. IF they use a gate a has been rumored in the AA concourse D all the way at the east end will they have to make the long Taxi to the south side of the airport to use trhe same runway Lufthansa uses for their A380 ?

Runway 8R is not long enough for the A380. Runway 12/30 might be a stretch for the A380's capabilties I think, so yes, I think that if BA gets an A380 gate at Concourse D, they would have to taxi all the way to the south side of the field to 9/27...

On a side note however, MIA in the next three years will need a few more A380 gates. While I understand AF and LH will be sharing the gate on Concourse J, I don't think it is a good long term solution to have two major carriers splitting one A380 gate- even if it is just for the winter seasonal.
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Miami
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:41 am

Quoting jfk777 (Thread starter):
will be able to use the runway next to the north side of the airport most AA flights use.

Most likely. I really doubt they'll be put to land on Runway 9/27.

Quoting jfk777 (Thread starter):
Or will they get a gate modified at concourse E for teh A380 ?

Possible but unlikely.

Quoting jeffh747 (Reply 3):
Runway 8R is not long enough for the A380.

You do realize Runway 8R/26L is longer than 12/30 right?

Quoting jeffh747 (Reply 3):
MIA in the next three years will need a few more A380 gates

  

Quoting jeffh747 (Reply 3):
While I understand AF and LH will be sharing the gate on Concourse J, I don't think it is a good long term solution to have two major carriers splitting one A380 gate- even if it is just for the winter seasonal.

I agree. There is already talks about modifying a gate in Concourse H for Air France.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 2):
Any chance they will launch MIA with the A380 to take it to Qatar?

MIA officials are buying it. I don't really understand why..

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 2):
Has EK ever launched a new route with the A380?

I don't think so.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
MAH4546
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:58 am

A gate in concourse H is being converted to an A380 gate for AF.
a.
 
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Miami
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:04 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 5):

How do you know? All I heard was that there's a chance but nothing was official.
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727LOVER
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:12 am

AF is sending A380 to MIA???? When was that announced?

So let me get it straight...LH, AF, and 2 BA A380s???????
 
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flymia
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:16 am

Also to note, it was parked there for a tech issue but I have seen the LH A380 park at concourse F before, it spent the night there in October after a canceled flight.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
zoulastar
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:00 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 8):
AF is sending A380 to MIA???? When was that announced?

That is correct!   For the winter season! And so far, the loads are really good, even in F class, which is a new thing for AF in Miami!  

Any chance to get a pic of the 3 A380's in MIA? I'm not sure if they are all in the same terminal.

Val
 
michi
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:27 am

Quoting jeffh747 (Reply 3):
Runway 8R is not long enough for the A380.

RWY 8R is more than enough for an A380 landing or taking off.

Even RWY 8L is long enough for take off towards europe on a 30°C/86°F day with max payload.

08R/26L is "authorized" for A380 ops by the airport. Taxiway M11 and M1 are A380 capable.


I pretty sure that the airport is able to approve more taxiways for B747-8 and A380 ops in the future. The demand is rising.


Regarding gate capabilities:

I really do wonder, why there are so few A380 gates around in the US. With a proper design you can use an A380 gate for 2 ADG III aircraft (A320, B737). This is already done in some places around. It gives you a good flexibility in gate usage.


Regards,

Michi
 
AirbusA6
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:43 pm

I presume MIA is more of a leisure destination than the other East coast airport further north, and hence frequency is less important, which makes running the A380 desirable?
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Miami
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:24 pm

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 7):
AF is sending A380 to MIA???? When was that announced?

All you need to know is right here: AF Launching A380 Service To MIA (by miaami Aug 6 2014 in Civil Aviation)
 
Quoting zoulastar (Reply 9):
Any chance to get a pic of the 3 A380's in MIA?

We'll have to wait until next year to get 3 A380s at MIA. BA A380s arrive in October of 2015.

Quoting zoulastar (Reply 9):
I'm not sure if they are all in the same terminal.

Lufthansa and Air France will use the South Terminal. While British will use the North Terminal.
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A388
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:34 pm

Quoting zoulastar (Reply 9):
Quoting flymia (Reply 8):
AF is sending A380 to MIA???? When was that announced?

That is correct! For the winter season! And so far, the loads are really good, even in F class, which is a new thing for AF in Miami!

Wow, I didn't know that. Strange that I also didn't receive a message on Twitter from Miami Airport about this(?) The question is whether AF and LH will still be using the A380 to MIA for the next winter (2015/2016).

Quoting michi (Reply 10):
08R/26L is "authorized" for A380 ops by the airport. Taxiway M11 and M1 are A380 capable.

So the reason why only runway 08R/26L is used for the A380 is due to that runway being the only runway that has A380 capable taxiways? When are changes or works expected to be done on other taxiways to accomodate the A380?

A388
 
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Miami
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 2:42 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 13):
LH

Lufthansa flies the A380 to MIA year-round.

Quoting A388 (Reply 13):
AF

Currently this is seasonal. No word yet if it'll continue after.
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A388
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:11 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 14):
Quoting A388 (Reply 13):
LH

Lufthansa flies the A380 to MIA year-round.

Thanks I didn't know that. Let's see if it will stay that way for the entire year, next year. I assume they can always change equipment according to demand (forecasts). They have the other Code F option which is the slighly smaller 747-8. If LH will indeed paint one of their upcoming 747-8's in their retro livery, I wouldn't mind seeing that one over an A380 

A388
 
michi
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:13 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 13):
So the reason why only runway 08R/26L is used for the A380 is due to that runway being the only runway that has A380 capable taxiways? When are changes or works expected to be done on other taxiways to accomodate the A380?

Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was only referring to the northern runways, because someone said that they are not long enough for A380 operations. This is not true.
It was also stated a lot of times in this thread, that the "normal" A380 runway is 09/27. I can confirm that this runway and some adjacent taxiways are A380 capable, because I did use them a lot already with an A380.


In general you need to differentiate between airplane capabilities and airport requirements and approvals when operating an A380.

One urban legend is, that the A380 requires a longer or wider runway that any other plane around. Not true.

The minimum RWY width required is 150 feet. This is basically an international standard for runways.

Also, there is no such thing as a minimum runway length required for an airplane in general. You always calculate your take off for the RWY you have available. You can take off on an 2000m/6500feet RWY with an A380. However you won't be able to carry out max take off weight, but you are able to take off.
Taking off with reasonable load and fuel requires more RWY. But the A380 is capable like any other commercial airliner around. Compared with the B747 it is a bit more capable/requires less RWY length for take off for example.


Airport operations is something else. Due to the wingspan you need to have wider safety areas next to the taxiways. Sometimes the airports don't know how far away certain obstacle are from the centerline. They don't know it because they did not need to know in pre A380 times.

They had requirements for the B747 like (fictions values): no obstacle closer that 36m/120feet from the taxiway centerline. Somebody, maybe the met office, built a anemometer 40m/131feet away from the centerline. Knowbody bothered as it was outside the safety area. This obstacle might not have been inserted on a map as well. I was basically unknown.

But then A380s came and the airports needed the do some measurements. Costly measurements… They had to establish new safety areas. So they only did what was required to enable a few operations per day. There was no need to remeasure the whole airport for 1 or 2 flights per day only.

This is one reason, that there are only a few approved taxiways around at certain airports.

Weight restrictions are not constraining A380 ops in general or most of the time, as the loading on the pavement is distributed on more wheels. Sometimes there are weight restrictions, but they normally also affect other aircraft as well.


Regards,

Michi
 
MD80Nut
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:44 pm

Quoting jfk777 (Thread starter):
IF they use a gate a has been rumored in the AA concourse D all the way at the east end will they have to make the long Taxi to the south side of the airport to use trhe same runway Lufthansa uses for their A380 ?

First of all, MIA is longer east west than north south. MIA is my hometown airport, I've done north - south/south - north taxi more times than I can remember and it's not even comparable to some on the really long taxis I've survived in places like DFW, ORD and DEN, for example. Plus I'm pretty sure all the runways at MIA can handle the A380, especially to Western Europe.

I really don't know how many A380 gates we have though.

Cheers, Ralph

[Edited 2014-11-27 11:48:25]
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jeffh747
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:16 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 4):
You do realize Runway 8R/26L is longer than 12/30 right?

My bad! I meant 8L, simple typo! And thanks to everyone who pointed that out.
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MIADeparture
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:40 pm

Quoting jeffh747 (Reply 18):

RWY 12/30 is longer than 8L/26R.

Quoting michi (Reply 16):

Very well said. At MIA this safety area becomes an issue with group 6 aircraft operating on 8R and A380 on M. From what MDAD has informed the tower...the French will arrive after the Germans have left. And use the same J gate. That A380 operation won't be as much a pain in the a$$ as much as an A380 on M taxiing all the way down to 8R. Taking him to RWY 9 isn't so bad...once he's south of RWY 12 he becomes a non issue. Just like LH and their A380.
 
727LOVER
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:55 am

I guess the days of seeing AF 744 @ MIA are over.  


I can only hope that BA returns the 744 someday.   
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flymia
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:09 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 20):

I guess the days of seeing AF 744 @ MIA are over.

Its been a 77W for a bit now anyway.

Quoting MD80Nut (Reply 17):
First of all, MIA is longer east west than north south

True. But the taxi from D to runway 9 is a very long one, especially in an A380. A taxi from D to 27 is not bad and comparable to D to 8R.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
zoulastar
Posts: 58
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:32 am

Quoting flymia (Reply 21):
I guess the days of seeing AF 744 @ MIA are over.

At MIA for sure, and at all others airports, ... well, the end is nearing fast! Sadly...
  
 
A388
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:46 pm

Quoting michi (Reply 16):
Airport operations is something else.

Hey michi, thanks for the extensive information. Having followed ICAO Airport Certification courses, knowledge of ICAO Annex 14 (Aerodromes) and ICAO Code F requirements, I know a bit how it works from the airport/aerodrome side. My question was more aimed at Miami Airport as I'm not that familiar with that airport. The only thing I've read is that only one runway is capable of handling the A380 which I also thought would be more due to taxiways being capable of handling the A380 but I wasn't sure  


Best regards,

A388
 
michi
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RE: BA A380 In Miami

Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:54 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 23):
The only thing I've read is that only one runway is capable of handling the A380 which I also thought would be more due to taxiways being capable of handling the A380 but I wasn't sure  

Alright, here you go:





I marked all the A380/B748 normal ops taxiways.

LH A380 ops is quite easy. Land on 09 or 27 and taxi via S to the gate.

BA A380 ops might be different. I can imagine that they will land on 08R and taxi to the gate via M11 and N13. The BA A380 gate, as I have read here before, is supposed to be at the north eastern corner of Terminal D. So it will be a short taxi after landing. Take off on 26L would be vice versa.

I am not sure where they will taxi for an easterly departure. Maybe M between M4 and M1 will be A380 approved as well. RWY 08R is long enough and will allow a relatively short taxi. This would also help when landing on 26L.

Taxiing towards RWY 09/27 will be a pain for BA, as MIADeparture mentioned before.


Cheers,

Michi

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