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Zkpilot
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NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:30 am

Rumour has it that NZ is about to announce a new USA destination to complement their existing Nth American destinations (LAX, SFO, YVR). The rumoured new destination is either LAS, IAH, or ORD. DEN has apparently been ruled out. http://nzherald.co.nz/business/news/...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11365415
I personally think that LAS is too close to LAX so that rules it out (and it's a small market for such a flight). ORD is a very long flight and would only cover the NE USA. IAH is a shorter flight and provides coverage of the entire Eastern half of the USA so that is my prediction.
 
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drerx7
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:45 am

This would be interesting. ..I guess out of the three destinations I'd say IAH is the most likely.
 
kiwiandrew

RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:00 am

On the one hand, the Herald is a pretty rubbish news source, on the other hand, 3 new 789s are coming on board in 2015 and , IIRC , only two 767 are leaving next year, so there is potential for expansion. I agree that of the three, IAH seems to me the most likely. LAS is close to , and well served from, LAX and SFO, and IAH is not only a shorter flight than ORD but also offers a bigger range of onward connections. I guess we will have to wait and see whether there is any truth to this .
 
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77west
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:00 am

Airplane type predictions? 789 or 772 I would say. 772 has more premium seating though...
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:02 am

If anything, it would likely have to be IAH.

Given UA gave up on the idea, a IAH route would give it a competitive position against QF's DFW flight, along with the connectivity benefits of UA's network.
 
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thekorean
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:02 am

I am pretty sure NZ cant fo ORD nonstop, thus, wont happen
 
Cubsrule
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:08 am

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 1):
I guess out of the three destinations I'd say IAH is the most likely.

So I can get off one of the longest flights in the world and onto a ratty XE ERJ? No thanks.
 
zkncj
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:09 am

Quoting thekorean (Reply 5):
I am pretty sure NZ cant fo ORD nonstop, thus, wont happen

They could, would just need another 2x 77Ws at short Notice. currently they are all used on:
AKL-LAX-LHR-LAX-AKL Daily
AKL-LAX-AKL Daily
AKL-SFO-AKL Daily

*A doesn't mean much to NZ these days, so doesn't have to be an *A hub. They have more non-*A partners now, so anything could happen.
 
wedgetail737
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:10 am

Isn't NZ part of Star Alliance? I would bet on IAH as well, but with a 789. I don't their 777-200ER's have to legs to fly
AKL-IAH.
 
ASA
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:16 am

Given the recent roll out of services ... let me say, BOS it is !!!   

At least, if (a really far fetched if) it comes true, I can say I claimed if first 
 
zkncj
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:20 am

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 8):
Isn't NZ part of Star Alliance?

Yes, but they also don't limit them self to *A currently they are signing deals with many non-*A airlines.
e.g

Virgin Australia, Cathy Pacific, Air Tahiti Nui, Virgin Atlantic, , plus an couple more.

Even when they sell special fare from Auckland to Europe, they will book you on Air France, British Airways & KLM.

[Edited 2014-11-26 20:54:30]
 
ipodguy7
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:28 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 10):
Air China

Air China is Star Alliance
 
xiaotung
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:32 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 10):
Yes, but they also don't limit them self to *A currently they are signing deals with many non-*A airlines.
e.g

Virgin Australia, Cathy Pacific, Air Tahiti Nui, Virgin Atlantic, Air China, plus an couple more.

Even when they sell special fare from Auckland to Europe, they will book you on Air France, British Airways & KLM.

Air China is a *A member though.

*A CEO Mark Schwab was in AKL this week. Coincidence?
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:33 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 7):
They could, would just need another 2x 77Ws at short Notice

That'd be a real stretch, as it's longer than DFW-HKG, and (unless they're permitted to use more than ETOPS180, or whatever its modern equivalent is called) they'd have to add even more distance, due to a no-fly zone smack in the middle of their great circle track.

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 8):
I don't their 777-200ER's have to legs to fly AKL-IAH.

A 656K MTOW 772ER can do the great-circle distance on AKL-IAH with no problem at all.... but again, big ETOPS no-go right in the middle of their track, so unless they get more than 180min allotment, then it's not happening.
 
duff
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:00 am

word around the water coolers is that they are trying to source 2 more airframes. Also expect to see more than 3 a321s in NZ colours (a lot more)
 
zkncj
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:05 am

Quoting duff (Reply 14):
word around the water coolers is that they are trying to source 2 more airframes.

Bargain sale at VA? some more shares and 2x 77W in reward?
 
IndianicWorld
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:23 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 15):
Bargain sale at VA? some more shares and 2x 77W in reward?

Lets be honest, VA really does not need any 77W's.

With the amount of capacity it has to fill out of BNE and SYD to LAX on its metal, along with the few weekly flights to AUH, all of this could be done by partner airlines more effectively (DL and EY respectively).
 
zkncj
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:45 am

Quoting IndianicWorld (Reply 16):

With the amount of capacity it has to fill out of BNE and SYD to LAX on its metal, along with the few weekly flights to AUH, all of this could be done by partner airlines more effectively (DL and EY respectively).

Or NZ could re-enter the SYD-LAX market....
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:54 am

I kind of hope it's not IAH, and they give that one to UA.

I want this to go to DEN or ORD, but traveling ID90 is kind of fun so IAH would still be cool despite what I said a minute ago.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:02 am

Quoting duff (Reply 14):
Also expect to see more than 3 a321s in NZ colours (a lot more)

I expect most of the NEO orders will be eventually. It's the perfect aircraft for NZ non-bulkloaded flights. With the -LR it would effectively meanno payload restrictions for the Islands ever again
 
jetblue1965
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:12 am

ORD makes nearly zero sense ... Overflying IAH while offering very very few unique destinations
 
777ER
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:34 am

According to the article this new route will be served by the Dreamliner with the range possible for ORD.

Quoting duff (Reply 14):
word around the water coolers is that they are trying to source 2 more airframes. Also expect to see more than 3 a321s in NZ colours (a lot more)

Two more 77Ws or two more 787s? Fully expected the A321 order to increase, plus some for domestic routes like the current A320D is currently set for
 
AR385
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:57 am

LAS does not make sense as it´s not high yield.

I believe it will be IAH:

1) Compete with the DFW-Oceania flight
2) Many connections
3) Many connections to Latin America, where New Zealand´s is investing a lot nowadays.

I hope it happens.
 
nascarnut
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:09 am

IAH makes most sense.
Depending on timing, IAH would offer most connections. You could draw a line north from IAH to Minneapolis and draw everything east of that line into IAH for feed. Would open up space on LAX/SFO/YVR.
Would also open up Mexico/Central and South America to a one stop service vs going via SCL.
 
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Zkpilot
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:22 am

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 23):

IAH makes most sense.
Depending on timing, IAH would offer most connections. You could draw a line north from IAH to Minneapolis and draw everything east of that line into IAH for feed. Would open up space on LAX/SFO/YVR.
Would also open up Mexico/Central and South America to a one stop service vs going via SCL.


For South America (well Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay etc) I expect to see NZ fly somewhere there soon on its own metal. This will connect in with the new SQ/CX/Air China relationships as a stopover hub between Asia and Sth America. It makes a lot more sense than going via SYD or LAX for most travellers. AKL could develop into quite an important (although never a mega) hub.
 
zkncj
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:34 am

Would AKL-JFK be doable with an 77W? surely NZ must be pretty close to getting there 330 ratting on the 77W.

Looks like at 330ETDO you can do AKL-JFK in 17hrs, traveling an average of 830kph over the 7671NM

AKL-JFK&MS=wls&DU=nm&SG=830&SU=kph&E=330" target="_blank">http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=AKL-JFK&MS=wls&DU=nm&SG=830&SU=kph&E=330


NZ's 77W have an pretty low seat count, with only 344 with every seat old or if they sell every SkyCouch it reduces to an max of 324 passengers.


While the maximum published range is 7825nm, that is based on an typical configuration with 386 passengers.
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:51 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 25):
Looks like at 330ETDO you can do AKL-JFK in 17hrs, traveling an average of 830kph over the 7671NM

What's the point? all the same advantages could be to any of the other closer hubs without the extra full and crew related costs.
 
KD5MDK
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:58 am

Presumably higher airfares in NYC, although I doubt it would actually be worth the extra time in flight.
 
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zkojq
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:01 am

I'd say IAH. Good connections and its far enough away from their existing North American destinations to add sufficient value to the network.

ORD is too far north and would mean backtracking to connect to many destinations.
LAS isn't a meaningful hub of Air New Zealand's partner airlines, so would be somewhat pointless. I doubt that LAS, on its own, has substantial enough demand from Australasian passengers to justify a direct flight. And the yields for the types of pax that go there are probably not very attractive.

I wonder what frequency ORD flights would start at.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 13):
unless they're permitted to use more than ETOPS180, or whatever its modern equivalent is called) they'd have to add even more distance, due to a no-fly zone smack in the middle of their great circle track.

The 77Ws have ETOPS 330, so that shouldn't be a problem. The 77Es are supposed to be getting this too.

Quoting duff (Reply 14):
Also expect to see more than 3 a321s in NZ colours (a lot more)

This would be expected.

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 24):
For South America (well Brazil, Chile, Argentina, Uruguay etc) I expect to see NZ fly somewhere there soon on its own metal. This will connect in with the new SQ/CX/Air China relationships as a stopover hub between Asia and Sth America. It makes a lot more sense than going via SYD or LAX for most travellers. AKL could develop into quite an important (although never a mega) hub.

I find the prospect of this exciting. Particularly if Auckland becomes a scissor hub for one of the aforementioned carriers. For Air New Zealand GRU (or as a tag from SCL) seems most likely.

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 26):

  

[Edited 2014-11-27 00:07:37]
 
behramjee
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 8:12 am

Will be IAH and most likely on B789 !
 
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NZ107
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:08 am

Quoting zkncj (Reply 25):

If you've seen the number of UA connections from JFK, you'd think again about that airport. I'd say EWR would be first choice if NZ ever considered NYC (while they were still in *A, if that was ever in question). But I don't see that happening for a while. That'd mean a lot of O&D traffic to NYC, outweighing the connecting traffic to the eastern half of USA plus NZ-Texas O&D.

Bets on a more premium heavy 789 for this route?
 
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aerorobnz
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:27 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 30):
Bets on a more premium heavy 789 for this route?

I don't think the NZ 787s will be rolling anywhere stateside except PAE/BFI for a while until a topup order is placed. I reckon it will be retrofitted 772 for any US growth there might be.
 
Chisky16
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 9:44 am

I would honestly love for it to be DEN. I feel like it is a far more unique destination than IAH, and offers nearly just as many onward connections as IAH.
 
jcwr56
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 10:43 am

I can tell you it's not ORD.
 
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drerx7
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:16 pm

Quoting ChiSky16 (Reply 32):

I would honestly love for it to be DEN. I feel like it is a far more unique destination than IAH, and offers nearly just as many onward connections as IAH.

According to the article DEN was ruled out. Why I wonder?
 
Jetmarc
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:22 pm

Wouldn't IAH be the most obvious? *A and that IAH-AKL was supposed to be the original UA 787 inaugural route before being changed to DEN-NRT?
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:27 pm

Quoting wedgetail737 (Reply 8):
I don't their 777-200ER's have to legs to flyAKL-IAH.

It definately has the legs. What's missing is a higher ETOPS rating.

AKL-IAH is barely pushing it for a 77E, 6444 nm. Easily doable ! Plenty of longer 77E legs out there.

Only hickup is.....ETOPS 180, which is not enough for AKL-IAH. They would need to be upgraded to ETOPS 240, and even then, there is still a small (the)noflyzone they will have to navigate around, adding some mileage.

These (the)noflyzones, they can be a real pain in the arse.. .!...:D

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?P=akl-iah&MS=wls&DU=mi&E=180&E=240

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 13):
A 656K MTOW 772ER can do the great-circle distance on AKL-IAH with no problem at all.... but again, big ETOPS no-go right in the middle of their track, so unless they get more than 180min allotment, then it's not happening.

  

Thenoflyzone

[Edited 2014-11-27 05:40:51]
 
S75752
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:55 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 34):

According to the article DEN was ruled out. Why I wonder?

Because it'd just about pass over LAX anyways.

And not that I think O&D matters for a route like this... But IAH would be quite a lot better off in that regard as well I think. Not that IAH would be a goldmine for it anyways though, but it certainly would help alongside all of the east coast connections.


So I'd say it's probably IAH too, right in the range for both the 789 and 772, whichever they'd debut with.
 
DXBDFWHGA
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 1:56 pm

IAH will be a winner for NZ. It will also make IAH one of the few airports that offers flights to six continents.
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:22 pm

I predict it will be IAH. In anticipation of EDTO>180 approval for the RR/77E they have already updated -OKB according to a post in an earlier thread. The earliest they can have 789's with more premium seats is frame #7 which is due in FY2017 or about 2-years from now which would time with the 789 becoming eligible for EDTO240. If they are looking for two frames, go after two of the early 788's . So they are a little heavy but for the relatively short TT, HNL and Pacific Island sectors they would work fine. There is nothing much out there to beat them and they would provide fleet uniformity. An IAH schedule could look like this

AKL-IAH
South summer
Outbound inbound
Dep. 20:00:00 20:30:00
Arr. 14:30:00 6:15:00
south winter
Outbound inbound
Dept 18:30:00 22:00:00
Arr 15:00:00 5:45:00
 
SunsetLimited
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 3:24 pm

I'm pulling hard for IAH! One great thing about this recent build up in new INTL frying from IAH is that it makes it very easy for us folks in the MSY area to connect to the world. Go Houston!
 
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sunrisevalley
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:02 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 39):
So they are a little heavy but for the relatively short TT, HNL and Pacific Island sectors they would work fine

Taking this a little further, using HNL-AKL as an example, an ACAP weight 787 with a 32.6t payload would burn 43.8t of fuel, an earlier frame assuming it is 4.5t heavier would only burn ~ .6t more fuel. . Using a 789 instead of the heavy 788 would increase the fuel burn by ~ 2.5t.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:10 pm

Quoting zkncj (Reply 25):
Would AKL-JFK be doable with an 77W?

Nope, not even remotely.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 28):
The 77Ws have ETOPS 330, so that shouldn't be a problem

The 77W has demonstrated the capability to operate under ETOPS330, yes.... but I'm not aware of the NZ (or really, any) government permitting its airline to utilize such.
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:33 pm

What ground handler does NZ prefer in the USA?
 
zkncj
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:52 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 42):
The 77W has demonstrated the capability to operate under ETOPS330, yes.... but I'm not aware of the NZ (or really, any) government permitting its airline to utilize such.

NZCAA has already approved 330 on 77Ws, they just need to build there operating hours up.
 
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yellowtail
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 5:57 pm

This would be awesome for me to get to AKL from BZE. BZE-IAH-AKL. Wooohooo. I know quite a few others esp in PTY that would use it too.

Right not they go PTY-SCL-AKL....IAH would def be an alternative esp if they can get Star miles.
 
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mariner
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:03 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 34):
According to the article DEN was ruled out. Why I wonder?

The line about Denver has been completely removed in a new (edited) version of the article this morning.

The headline has been changed, too. The original headline was:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11365415

Air NZ set to announce new US destination

The headline has been charged to:

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/n...ticle.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=11365600

Air NZ looks at adding to its routes to the US

The new version is full of words like "possibly" and "could." I don't buy it as much more than an over-enthusiastic reporter.

mariner
 
EddieDude
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:32 pm

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 23):
Would also open up Mexico/Central and South America to a one stop service vs going via SCL.

From Mexico, it is way more efficient to fly to AKL via LAX than via SCL. And cheaper too.

In terms of LAX vs. IAH, some cities like MTY, cities in the eastern part of Mexico that do not have nonstop flights to LAX but have service to IAH would benefit from connections at IAH, but I would expect LAX to continue to be the most used connecting point for Mexico-AKL traffic simply because of the demand out of MEX and GDL.

[Edited 2014-11-27 10:34:32]
 
KirkSeattle
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:19 pm

It is fun to speculate! But let's look at some data!

Check out the EXCEL file, tab 46

http://www.stats.govt.nz/browse_for_...ional-visitor-arrivals-apr-13.aspx

It has a list of the state of residence of US travelers to NZ from 2009-2013.

Top 7 Rank:
California
New York
Texas
Florida
Colorado
Washington (state)
Illinois

Fun stuff!

Cheers,
KirkSeattle
 
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yellowtail
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RE: NZ Set To Announce New USA Destination(LAS/IAH/ORD

Thu Nov 27, 2014 7:47 pm

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 47):
California
New York
Texas
Florida

No surprise there....as the most populous states, these four often lead the pack of any arrivals to any place.

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