Cross-wind Nastiness In Birmingham, England

ordell · Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:20 am

http://www.westernjournalism.com/not...rt-miracle-none-passengers-killed/

Damn that is scary stuff.

777Jet · Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:27 am

Not so sure about this headline: "It’s Nothing Short Of A Miracle That None Of These Passengers Were Killed"

But great footage nonetheless! Thanks for posting - I had not seen that clip yet...

777Jet · Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:34 am

BTW I had to take another look at that UA 757 departure at the 4:25 mark - that was crazy! 757 power!

I wonder how many of the pax needed new undies after that

ua900 · Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:46 am

Nice footage, thanks for posting. One more reason to put BHX on my bucket list, right next to SXM and TGU

ua900 · Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:49 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 2):
BTW I had to take another look at that UA 757 departure at the 4:25 mark - that was crazy! 757 power!

A nice testament to the 757's capabilities. Those pilots didn't look to happy being tossed around. Nothing compared to whoever was back in row 40 though

ordell · Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:50 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 1):
Not so sure about this headline: "It’s Nothing Short Of A Miracle That None Of These Passengers Were Killed"

Yeah that site is notorious for hyperbole. I didn't realize it was a YouTube video.

No plane was safe. That Emitrites 777 got blown around like nuts.

hz747300 · Fri Nov 28, 2014 6:09 am

How un-flat is that runway too? Some of those are really nuts! I think the EK 77L seems to have handled it best, but I really liked watching the persistence of the Metro at the end.

william · Fri Nov 28, 2014 8:00 am

Auto land couldn't do this, aviatiating at its best. This is when the pilots earn their pay and then some..........hopefully an applause at the gate.

[Edited 2014-11-28 00:02:23]

rb211524g · Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:52 am

It's kinda disconcerting watching the pilots being bumped around like that

Quoting william (Reply 7):

I totally agree there!! When its windy here in Melbourne, I often say that a pilot will really earn their money today!!

slcguy · Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:12 pm

Good video! Great piloting, some landed, some made missed approach based on their judgment of the situation. Didn't seem to matter if it was small Metro/ATR turboprops or large aircraft 777/330s, they all were all having a rough time. The takeoffs with the crosswind pushing on the tails (weathervaning) before the controls had full effect even seemed more challenging than the landings!

[Edited 2014-11-28 04:19:48]

Quantos · Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:15 pm

Damn, those Q400s are bouncing around.

Rara · Fri Nov 28, 2014 12:19 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 2):
757 power!

I wonder how many of the pax needed new undies after that

a.net members will also need new undies, but for different reasons.. Cue three new 757 replacement threads just because of this video alone.

aerdingus · Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:53 pm

Great video but what a ridiculous headline on the news site. Why are people always so focused on the danger of aviation when so many people are doing things to keep it safe.

I can't believe how much the 757s, 767s & 777s were blown about though!

Also officially can't watch a Dash 8 land in a cross wind...they all looked worse even than the little Metro at the end which was an unexpected champ!

JetBuddy · Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:13 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 11):
a.net members will also need new undies, but for different reasons..

LOL... yes.

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 6):
I really liked watching the persistence of the Metro at the end.

Yup, the Metroliner struggled but was persistant. That nosewheel didn't touch down until the end it looked like.

scbriml · Fri Nov 28, 2014 2:27 pm

The video is good, but the 'news' article is just awful.

hivue · Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:05 pm

Would be nice if there were some numbers for the winds. Looks like the issue was gusts more than straight crosswind.

Quoting hz747300 (Reply 6):
How un-flat is that runway too?

Very long lenses distort things.

arluna · Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:23 pm

I'll bet the cabin crew had to replace lots of barf bags as well!

bristolflyer · Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:24 pm

The tyres on that Ryanair 737 at 9.07 took some serious side load.

nema · Fri Nov 28, 2014 3:57 pm

My wife and i have used this airport many times with it being relatively local to us after EMA.

Our very last landing there felt like one of those in the video, I commented to my wife at one point that the captain was seemingly having a struggle as we were bouncing around and re-aligning regularly on approach. Once on the ground and taxying the captain even came on the system to apologise for the bumpy ride, blaming the positioning of the runway at BHX being awkward in windy conditions and not laying in an ‘East/West direction as tends to be otherwise normal in the UK. For me, this type of landing is where pilots really earn their wings.

FRAIAD · Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:05 pm

The headline is the usual no-idea-what-the're-talking-about BS. Nevertheless, some of these landings and take offs are ridiculous. Nice displays of piloting skills though. On a side note: I've flown into Birmingham a couple of times and it was never like this. How often do these nasty crosswinds actually occurr?

nema · Fri Nov 28, 2014 4:18 pm

Quoting FRAIAD (Reply 19):
How often do these nasty crosswinds actually occurr?

At BHX it just needs to be an average windy day to have some challenging approaches. This is due to the runways north/south direction here (as per my post above) so most of our winds here being east/west make them crosswinds at BHX. So when it gets really windy, it gets really tricky.

Lentini2001 · Fri Nov 28, 2014 5:42 pm

This was last year though when we had a lot of strong winter winds here (I'm from Birmingham)

And yes, the runway really is like that!!!!

[Edited 2014-11-28 09:43:03]

aerolimani · Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:43 pm

Quoting Quantos (Reply 10):
Damn, those Q400s are bouncing around.

No kidding!

I don't know how people can accuse the Q400 of having substandard gear after watching it perform in this video.

flytimbo77 · Fri Nov 28, 2014 7:48 pm

Great video, and lovely to watch such good airmanship. As many others have said however, the headline is absolutely ridiculous. Just typical of the sensationalist, ignorant journalism you see all the time about aviation. As someone else rightly pointed out, all pilots are trained for these conditions and this is all in a day's work. What it does show is that despite all the computer automation, there is no substitute for a skilled human being!

beechnut · Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:16 pm

Sensationalist headline, and non-event. I guess I must be lucky to be alive, I've lost count of the number of times I got bounced around like that trying to land my Beech Sundowner or before that my Cherokee, C150 and Beech Skipper.

Nobody was ever unsafe or any closer to death than usual on an airliner. The system worked as intended, some gusts obviously gave the crews a handful but they did the right thing and went around. Others managed to put 'er down between gusts, and those who did, landed firmly which is what one is supposed to do in adverse weather conditions. What the video is, is a beautiful testament to the skills of the crews involved and the engineers who designed the aircraft to handle those kinds of conditions, not to mention a safety culture that manages risks to acceptable levels . In fact you can be sure that every single day, somewhere in the world, crews are tackling similar winds on approach. Perhaps a few queasy passengers get to taste their lunch twice in such conditions, but they are a routine, normal part of daily aviation.

Everyone was able to go to the pub for a beer at the end of the day, just as they would on a calm day, even if that pub might be at a diversion airfield

.

Beech

ordell · Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:28 pm

Is there any way the article can be changed to just have the YouTube link and not subject people to that dumb story?

bgm · Fri Nov 28, 2014 11:46 pm

Good video!

Btw, here is the youtube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P9OAng32F0

CalTex · Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:05 am

Quoting Bgm (Reply 26):

Good video!

Btw, here is the youtube link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7P9OA...g32F0

Thanks, bgm! I took out the s on your https so that the link is clickable.

TheRedBaron · Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:28 am

One of the best videos I have seen, that Bae 146 is Beautiful....and its wing flexing OMG !!

TRB

ordell · Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:41 am

Quoting nema (Reply 20):

At BHX it just needs to be an average windy day to have some challenging approaches. This is due to the runways north/south direction here (as per my post above) so most of our winds here being east/west make them crosswinds at BHX. So when it gets really windy, it gets really tricky.

What morons approved the runway directions that are perpendicular to the winds? If your winds are known to run east/west, then make your runways east/west, not north/south.

rutankrd · Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:45 am

Quoting ordell (Reply 29):

Birmingham had a runway aligned 24/06 until relatively recently however obstructions prevented its expansion .
That now has a large jet hanger on one end and is a taxiway at the other.

Luftymatt · Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:05 pm

Quoting SLCGuy (Reply 9):
Didn't seem to matter if it was small Metro/ATR turboprops or large aircraft

ATR's have a greater crosswind limit than some medium sized jets. Ie the 737-800 and A320.

BD338 · Sat Nov 29, 2014 4:52 pm

I've flown into BHX on many occasions, almost all with no trouble at all. Do recall a couple of 'interesting' approaches, one at least on a KL F70 a few years back where as we approached, we were getting blown around so much that actually got a brief look down the runway centerline as we were on finals....and I wasn't sat in the cockpit. If I recall, that ended up being a go-around, and 2nd time was a charm.

I've always wondered what possessed the original airfield designers to layout the main runway on a N-S basis. Makes no sense when the prevailing winds are from the West in the UK.

Mickbhx · Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:14 pm

Birmingham Airport was originally a WW11 airfield due it's close proximity to Castle Bromwich where Spitfires (and Lancasters?) were built.
As previous posters have pointed out, it did have a cross-wind runway, which was unable to be extended due to housing development etc. I gained my PPL at BHX in 1982 and had to use both runways to demonstrate the ability to land in a cross wind and was never a problem in a Cessna 152.
I have flown about 200 times into BHX as a passenger, the last time was a week ago 0n EK 039 and never been a problem.

BHX does benefit at times, from diversions in the past when the wind direction does not fit the "norm" for the UK .

As overs have said, it's press going OTT again, no problems here.