TYCOON
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Lufthansa Strike

Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:56 pm

Another Lufthansa strike 1-2 December
Any flights already confirmed as cancelled?
 
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readytotaxi
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:16 pm

Is this the third or fourth this year?
you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
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BA0197
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:19 pm

Quoting readytotaxi (Reply 1):
Is this the third or fourth this year?

It's the ninth from this April! Tragic really
 
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lugie
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:22 pm

The new auxiliary schedule for these days will be released tonight 21:00 (9:00p) CET

Edit: Actually I just found out that there's already information online if you click "flight status" you can see if your flight will be affected

[Edited 2014-11-30 11:27:49]
DH4 E75 E90 CR9 CRK M88 319 320 321 332 333 359 733 73G 738 739 748 764 772 77W 788
X3 LH 4U TP US SN EI FR IB LX LA CM UA DL AA AS WN AC
FRA STR HAM TXL MUC ZRH ACE BRU BLL DUB MAN ARN MAD OPO LIS FNC AMS PHL RDU LGA CLT EWR ORD ATL SFO MDW YYZ SJO PTY
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:51 pm

What is the point of announcing strike dates and the duration? Shouldn't it be rather random. Once announced, the airline can make plans to mitigate the effects of the strike.
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EIDL
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:56 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
What is the point of announcing strike dates and the duration? Shouldn't it be rather random. Once announced, the airline can make plans to mitigate the effects of the strike.

Wildcat strikes are one way to ensure that there is absolutely zero public support for your cause and also damage the airline so badly in terms of bookings that you probably won't have a job at all shortly.
 
Scottiedog
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Sun Nov 30, 2014 8:37 pm

And I, as a travel agent, am becoming more and more annoyed with the inconvenience being caused to travellers; as well as the additional work caused to my colleagues in having to rearrange itineraries and refunds or reissues of tickets with no recompense for the time and effort involved.
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Sun Nov 30, 2014 9:54 pm

And this is the reason LH has lost all my business for the rest of the time I'm in Europe. I'd rather pour my money into flying Euro-hemorrhaging airlines like AB. LH is approaching French levels of striking with this latest round...like it's the new German national pastime.
 
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winterlight
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:04 pm

Those striking should be grateful they have a job at all. Sack the lot of them.
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:20 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 7):
I'd rather pour my money into flying Euro-hemorrhaging airlines like AB.

     
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
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MD80
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Sun Nov 30, 2014 10:52 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 7):
And this is the reason LH has lost all my business for the rest of the time I'm in Europe.


Hopefully, more customers react this way! In the end (but these pilots probably don´t see it) it´s the passenger who enable Lufthansa to pay the monthly salary packages.


Quoting winterlight (Reply 8):
Those striking should be grateful they have a job at all. Sack the lot of them.

That´s my view too. Ironically, exactly these groups have the comfort to do such actions.

Personally, I would be very happy to have a permanent job and not only temporary job-agreements (wow, my next one is for 12 months!). I am so tired and this nothing to do with envy. Even my private Christmas-vacation-schedule probably depends on actions by a very small group of people. My consequence would be: Cancel my travel-plans, no money paid to a company, OK.

I want to be treated like a customer and not abused for the egoistic demands by the rather small group who don´t have the worry to have not enough money to pay for heating or energy.

I know countries where such employee-groups would be sacked by a company in the interest of all other employees and the country. I am quiet sure that Lufthansa is aware of the problem that there are employees among them who lack the loyalty to the company that feeds them with money. I would do all legal steps to reduce the number of these employees and to replace them gradually with normal people.
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b747400erf
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Sun Nov 30, 2014 11:29 pm

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 7):
And this is the reason LH has lost all my business for the rest of the time I'm in Europe. I'd rather pour my money into flying Euro-hemorrhaging airlines like AB. LH is approaching French levels of striking with this latest round...like it's the new German national pastime.

You consider a couple days of inconvenience more important than someones job and benefits. The height of selfishness.
 
Braniff747SP
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:34 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 11):
You consider a couple days of inconvenience more important than someones job and benefits.

As a customer, that's not his problem (and it's not like LH's pilots are being exploited).
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N62NA
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:49 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 11):
You consider a couple days of inconvenience more important than someones job and benefits. The height of selfishness.

As a customer, he has every right to take his business elsewhere. It's not his fault that labor and management can't come to an agreement.

Perhaps those engaging in all these strikes should consider the ramifications to the company and in turn, to their own job security.
 
earlynff
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 1:29 am

Quoting aw70 (Reply 14):
Especially LH management, who should know better than to try ham-fisted crap like the stuff that sparked this whole mess. That was not worth it - and they should know when to back off.



I wholeheartedly second that opinion
 
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mercure1
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 5:11 am

I am amazed at the stubborn attitude of LH management over this topic.
As was mentioned in their quarterly report they have already lost excess of 10-years worth of pilot retirement cost savings value which they were seeking via strikes losses this year.
mercure f-wtcc
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:09 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 11):
You consider a couple days of inconvenience more important than someones job and benefits. The height of selfishness.

Yes...and the fact that I refuse to schedule a trip around an airline that may or may not go on strike at a moment's notice as if it's going out of style. The height of ignorance!
 
Prost
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:12 am

I wonder how prevalent AWACSooner's viewpoint is on Continental European fliers. LH, AF/KL really seem to be in a pickle with many issues that BA/IB/Vueling have hashed out. It'll be an interesting couple of years coming up, and the game of chicken both parties (management and unions) are playing don't seem to be doing either side much good.

Good luck to all involved, LH is a great carrier.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:31 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 15):
I am amazed at the stubborn attitude of LH management over this topic.
As was mentioned

Change "LH Management" to "VC (pilot's union) boar and you are correct. It is flabbergasting o see hwo recklessly otherise intelligent People refuse to acknowledge the ompetetive situation in world aviation. LH Management as the solution to Keep LH in Business, if VC wins t will be at the cost of not only Pilot jobs but all oherLH employees.

The damae is done already, as one can see from reactions in tis thread.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
b747400erf
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:33 am

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 16):

Yes...and the fact that I refuse to schedule a trip around an airline that may or may not go on strike at a moment's notice as if it's going out of style. The height of ignorance!

A moments notice? The height of ignorance indeed. Your single day of travel is more important than peoples careers. You have plenty of notice as well... And you blame the unions instead of management. In typical a.net fashion.

[Edited 2014-11-30 23:35:37]
 
blueflyer
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:49 am

Quoting N62NA (Reply 13):
Perhaps those engaging in all these strikes should consider the ramifications to the company and in turn, to their own job security.

Because we all know that pilots are uneducated cavemen who'd never think of the short and long term ramifications of their actions if the gracious armchair CEOs and corporate apologists of a.net didn't remind them to.

I don't like one of my suppliers going on strike anymore than anyone else, but I am not arrogant enough to pretend I know better than the pilots what is in their best interest.
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atcsundevil
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:54 am

Quoting mercure1 (Reply 15):
I am amazed at the stubborn attitude of LH management over this topic.
As was mentioned in their quarterly report they have already lost excess of 10-years worth of pilot retirement cost savings value which they were seeking via strikes losses this year.

I think at this point it's become -- ahem, how do I say this diplomatically -- a contest involving the measurements of certain male appendages. Neither side wants to concede something which can be perceived as a loss, not too unlike the US Congress in the last several years. It's truly disheartening that a company as prestigious and historic as Lufthansa can become so dysfunctional to the extent that management and employees perceive negotiation and compromise as nothing short of failure.

Without question, the employees deserve better pay and benefits, but they also have to know when they're asking for too much; conversely, the company has to recognize that the happiness and well-being of its employees are paramount to the company's success. Across the board in every industry, upper management are making decisions based purely on stock performance, bottom lines, and their own damned bonuses. This mentality has become like an infectious plague in the airline industry, all at the expense of the customers and the employees -- those driving the company forward. It's nothing short of a race to the bottom for just about every airline in North America and Europe.

Both sides are in the wrong, but who suffers most? The customer. If they can't put aside their differences and come to a mutual compromise like normal human beings, then LH will further deteriorate into a shell of a once great airline. As it is, it's already a shell of itself, but I for one hope it doesn't get worse. I can't say I'm optimistic though.
 
B777LRF
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:01 am

A long-haul LH skipper tops out on the salary scale at around 300K/year. They want to retain the ability to pension themselves off at the age of 55 on a final salary pension.

There are two items of particular interest here: Pension at age 55 (when, legally, they are allowed to continue until 65) and a final salary pension. Neither of the two have a place in today's commercial environment, and it's the height of arrogance to strike in order to retain such privileges.

I fully understand why LH is determined to end this practice.
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PanHAM
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:03 am

There is a nice German word "Besitzstandswahrung" which translates into "protection of vested rights".

That worked in the days when LH was wholly or later, partially owned by the state. Once LH was fully floated at the stock Exchange, once the EU single market was created and once the ME3 and TK went on their state protected flights, that Kind of protection is no longer viable.

LH cannot earn such costs on the market. It is up to the pilots to adapt to reality or fly their Airline into cloud-cuckoo-land and ultimately follow the dodo into extinction.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
b747400erf
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:21 am

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 22):
A long-haul LH skipper tops out on the salary scale at around 300K/year. They want to retain the ability to pension themselves off at the age of 55 on a final salary pension.

The pilot is the most important position in an airline, and has the lives of hundreds in their hands each flight.

The executive board at LH all make much more than EUR 1 million each year.

http://reports.lufthansa.com/2011/ar...ionreportfortheexecutiveboard.html

But the outrage is against the pilots?

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 22):
There are two items of particular interest here: Pension at age 55 (when, legally, they are allowed to continue until 65) and a final salary pension. Neither of the two have a place in today's commercial environment, and it's the height of arrogance to strike in order to retain such privileges.

But the large pay to failed executives of course has a place! How dare pilots make comfortable salaries doing a very important job. But keep paying millions to executives... It is sad the mentality of people today, to worship executive and demean the real employees.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:39 am

The executive board pf LH numbers less people than a single long haul flight does on a round trip, pilots of cpourse.

The pay of the board is at the lower end of their peers in the other 29 companies on the DAX and a good portion of the income is variable. The shareholders pay them to do their Job, they are not employees but employed entrepreneurs..

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 24):
But the large pay to failed executives of course has a place!

Pactum sund servandum. They get the amount of their contract paid if they are kicked out early, usually without the variable Portion.. If a CEO failed, he will most likely not get an adequate Job for the rest of his life. So much to comparing apples and peaches.


If someone would argue here that the law makers can help to better the competetive Situation of LH, that would be agreeable. Pass an aviation law that acknowledges that 18 hours production time at major hubs is not enough, abolish the passenger tax completely, stop the CO² tax at least until everyone has to pay, even the ME3 on their outbound flights from their home bases without silent kick-back, that would be agreeable.

But don't blame company directors for These conditions and a pilot force that to a part still lives in the era of state carriers.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Unflug
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:41 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 24):
to worship executive

Where did you see that?

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 24):
demean the real employees

or that?

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 24):
How dare pilots make comfortable salaries doing a very important job.

No one is disputing their salary.

Current pilots are not supposed to loose anything, only future pilots can't have the same pension rights as the current pilots...
 
AR385
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:08 am

Quoting winterlight (Reply 8):
Those striking should be grateful they have a job at all. Sack the lot of them.

I see the mentality of the Dark Ages is still alive and well.

Quoting MD80 (Reply 10):
I know countries where such employee-groups would be sacked by a company in the interest of all other employees and the country. I am quiet sure that Lufthansa is aware of the problem that there are employees among them who lack the loyalty to the company that feeds them with money. I would do all legal steps to reduce the number of these employees and to replace them gradually with normal people.

I would really, really, avoid living in such a country. And if you "would do all legal steps to reduce the number of these employees and to replace them gradually with normal people." then I think North Korea is somewhere where such a job description exists. I can´t think of any other place. P.S. What exactly is "normal people?"

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 22):
There are two items of particular interest here: Pension at age 55 (when, legally, they are allowed to continue until 65) and a final salary pension. Neither of the two have a place in today's commercial environment, and it's the height of arrogance to strike in order to retain such privileges.

While I agree that in this day and age retiring at 55 is not sustainable, not even by a government because its entire pension system is going to go bankrupt given the higher life expectancies, LH unions and its management need to compromise because they´re both damaging each other terribly.

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 24):
But the large pay to failed executives of course has a place! How dare pilots make comfortable salaries doing a very important job.

I dare you to find a CEO that makes $300,000 a year and can run a company like LH. If you can find that person, they´ll probably run LH into the ground within 6 months. But I see you are firmly in the camp of "How dare upper management make so much money." If you think a good professional is expensive, go ahead and hire an amateur. Anyway, as said above. Apples and orange.
 
B777LRF
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 11:25 am

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 24):
The pilot is the most important position in an airline, and has the lives of hundreds in their hands each flight.

As a former airline pilot, I'm here to tell you that is absolutely BS. The most important people in any company are those setting the strategy; those selling the products; those managing the operation and those who are in the operation. The pilots are but a small part of the latter group.

True, no airline can exist without pilots. But neither can it exist without someone at helm, a range of people in post-holding jobs, a large number of people pricing and selling the tickets, and an even larger number of people servicing and maintaining the aircraft. Take any of those components out, and the airline will cease to operate.
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airmale
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:23 pm

Dear Lufthans Pilots,

Yes, please go on strike, your (premium) Passengers will get a chance to fly the competition (also from the middle east), maybe for the first time, and experience the difference.

Your competitors appreciate the new business and hope those passengers will be returning in the future.

Enjoy your days off.
An unhappy customer.
.....up there with the best!
 
captaincrackers
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 12:26 pm

I'm convinced that there is almost no scenario in which the blame for these sorts of situations does not fall on the shoulders of the company management, which is ultimately responsible for relations with their employees. More often than not, these situations arise because management, against all odds, fails to adequately communicate the ramifications of several sets of alternative actions (here: save on pension benefits or not, launch new LCC or not) on the company's future. That's a hell of a task, granted, but its their task, and that's why they make the big bucks.
 
PanHAM
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:19 pm

The message is clear and simple.

LH needs to be made fit for the future, that is a continuing task in any company, some years less pressing, some years more.

LH Management has partially done that Job by switching all non-hub routes, most whoch exist since decades., from LH to 4U.
More Needs to be done in that direction, the "Wings" concept is on the table.. Early retirement is another Option. It will gradually increase, most of the older pilots are not affected, new pilots will see an increase to 55 yrs 2 months, etc, similar to the scheme whoch exist for anyone in Germanywho could retire with 65 pre viously, currently it is 65 and 6 months I believe.
The interesting Point is, how can a company decide on an issue whoch lies 30 years ahead, how can a Union strike for such fringe benefits, who knows what is Happening in 30 years. Another Point is, low or non existing interest rates make such deals vetry problematic.

On the other side LH pilots resist all measures to make the Company fit. It will not take 30 years until all of them and the rest of the LH employees are out of a Job.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
bmacleod
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:34 pm

LH has for most part been Boeing's "bread and butter" or the bulk of its widebody orders for the past few years. Surely Boeing's been watching the situation very closely.....

What will it take for LH to finally satisfy the pilots demands?

[Edited 2014-12-01 06:37:22]
"What good are wings without the courage to fly?" - Atticus
 
offloaded
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:48 pm

Quoting scottiedog (Reply 6):
And I, as a travel agent, am becoming more and more annoyed with the inconvenience being caused to travellers; as well as the additional work caused to my colleagues in having to rearrange itineraries and refunds or reissues of tickets with no recompense for the time and effort involved.

+1 from Portugal.

Just finished re-issuing LIS MUC SOF tickets; fortunately the clients are ok about going a day later. TAP are on strike tomorrow too. At least they advise well in advance.

People may slate them but I'm trying to remember the last Ryanair strike...   
To no one will we sell, or deny, or delay, right or justice - Magna Carta, 1215
 
brilondon
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 2:59 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 11):

Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 7):
And this is the reason LH has lost all my business for the rest of the time I'm in Europe. I'd rather pour my money into flying Euro-hemorrhaging airlines like AB. LH is approaching French levels of striking with this latest round...like it's the new German national pastime.

You consider a couple days of inconvenience more important than someones job and benefits. The height of selfishness.

Ah yes, the call of the union...I don't give a rats behind about jobs and benefits when the person who is supposed to be doing their "job" is off striking again. Didn't they strike over wearing a hat? I really think that in today's global economy that the trade unionist should really look before they leap, because they may just end up in a pile of it.
Rush for ever; Yankees all the way!!
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:03 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 19):
A moments notice? The height of ignorance indeed. Your single day of travel is more important than peoples careers. You have plenty of notice as well... And you blame the unions instead of management. In typical a.net fashion.

So a few days constitutes plenty of notice in your book, eh? Well, not in mine. Since they decided to short-notice strike today and tomorrow, and I happen to book most of my trips a few months in advance, I am not going to leave to chance that the LH pilots decide to stage their 350th strike short-notice like what they're pulling now. Therefore, I am taking my business to another airline. These folks are making their job woes a self-fulfilling prophecy...and if it gets to that point, they only have themselves to blame.

Cry me a river about the unions...they are supposed to be there to protect workers...but most of them have de-evolved into lining their own coffers at the cost of biting the hands that feed them. And don't get me started on their pathetic political rhetoric (especially in the US).
 
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par13del
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 6:46 pm

Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 4):
What is the point of announcing strike dates and the duration? Shouldn't it be rather random. Once announced, the airline can make plans to mitigate the effects of the strike.
Quoting EIDL (Reply 5):
Wildcat strikes are one way to ensure that there is absolutely zero public support for your cause and also damage the airline so badly in terms of bookings that you probably won't have a job at all shortly.

Laws have been passed in a number of countries to prevent wildcat strikes, essentially management must be given prior notice so that they can minimize the effects of the strike - make them loose less money. Customer inconvenience is a secondary benefit, after all, if it was all about the customer we would not be in the late 20*** trying to pass pax bill of rights to protect them from the whims of management.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 22):
Pension at age 55
Quoting AR385 (Reply 27):
While I agree that in this day and age retiring at 55 is not sustainable,

My understanding is that it is not full pension at age 55, since pension funds are all done based on actuarial values, does it make a difference? If the contributions are not being used for "other purposes" the science is sound as it is used to create the early retirement benefits / percentages.
Is it possible that this is more about preventing early retirement of the pilots who do not want to work under the new structure and management does not see an available pilot replacement pool?
 
slvrblt
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 7:17 pm

Excuse me.

Are you paid a living wage? How about, realIy GOOD wages. I hear it's damn better than in the USA. How about benefits - got good benefits? Or is more, more, more, and more never enough? If airlines make some money, do they HAVE to give it all to the pilots? Or, just maybe, do the shareholders get some?

Keep going, LH pilots. You're going to be in good company soon. Those unions WON! Yes, they did; they showed everybody who the boss was. Especially the first one on the list.

E A S T E R N A I R L I N E S

P A N A M E R I C A N

B R A N I F F
..everything works out in the end.
 
Oykie
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:09 pm

Quoting Prost (Reply 17):
I wonder how prevalent AWACSooner's viewpoint is on Continental European fliers.

Not sure what other European's might think, but I have avoided Lufthansa this year. I have flown many times on Lufthansa. Last time was October 2013. I really like their product. But now I have been flying Qatar, British Airways, American and Air New Zealand. When I travel I like to reduce the risk of any irregularities. Flying LH, AF and to a lesser extent KL is for me a bigger risk. When I am traveling to a place for a few days, and spend a large amount of my earned money on travel to visit my family, I find it frustrating to be kept a hostage by angry workers. They can blame it on management all they want, but for me the end result is that will loose some vauluable time with family at an airport. Thank you very much. In today's world pilots are not underpayed. The terms are not unfair. There is a global shortage of pilots. If you think your management is unfair. Quit your job and apply with the competitor. But please do not make me a hostage. Thank you!

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 31):
More Needs to be done in that direction, the "Wings" concept is on the table.. Early retirement is another Option. It will gradually increase, most of the older pilots are not affected, new pilots will see an increase to 55 yrs 2 months, etc, similar to the scheme whoch exist for anyone in Germanywho could retire with 65 pre viously, currently it is 65 and 6 months I believe.

I think the reason Wings are on the table is becaues workers at Lufthansa fail to adapt to the reality. Sadly. If LH employees would be more cooperative there would be no need for Wings. Wings is like TED, Song etc. in the US prior to Chapter 11.
Dream no small dream; it lacks magic. Dream large, then go make that dream real - Donald Douglas
 
ytz
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 8:35 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 24):
The pilot is the most important position in an airline, and has the lives of hundreds in their hands each flight.

Try operating an airline without skilled technicians. And what do you think would happen if the techs screwed up at their job? They don't have hundreds of lives in their hands?

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 24):
The executive board at LH all make much more than EUR 1 million each year.

You get what you pay for. Do you want incompetent executives? EUR 1 mil per year for a multi-billion euro company with a whole lot of government and societal interference? That's pretty cheap. I'm now wondering if LH actually has competent leadership if they pay their board that poorly.

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 24):
But the large pay to failed executives of course has a place!

But of course...paying another set of executives even less than these "failed executives" is likely to produce better results. Incredible logic.
 
Bongodog1964
Posts: 3542
Joined: Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:29 am

RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:50 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 32):

LH has for most part been Boeing's "bread and butter" or the bulk of its widebody orders for the past few years. Surely Boeing's been watching the situation very closely.....

I doubt that Boeing are paying much attention at all, It seems to be grasping at straws to try and link this dispute to an airframe manufacturer in any way. If LH don't transport the passengers someone else will, and the chances are that a good proportion of them will still fly on Boeing aircraft.
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:27 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 32):
LH has for most part been Boeing's "bread and butter" or the bulk of its widebody orders for the past few years. Surely Boeing's been watching the situation very closely.....

lol. You can't be serious.

Quoting bongodog1964 (Reply 40):
I doubt that Boeing are paying much attention at all, It seems to be grasping at straws to try and link this dispute to an airframe manufacturer in any way. If LH don't transport the passengers someone else will, and the chances are that a good proportion of them will still fly on Boeing aircraft.

Exactly.

I think Boeing cares infinitely more about EK than LH. And both of LH's immediate competitors (AF-KL and BA-IB) are Boeing clients. If LH goes down, that traffic shifts to those two and they're just as large customers to Boeing.
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2490
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:35 pm

Quoting bmacleod (Reply 32):
LH has for most part been Boeing's "bread and butter" or the bulk of its widebody orders for the past few years.

You mean, apart from EK ordering 150 77Ws, and another 150 77Xs earlier this year? Think we also need to exclude QR and their combined order of 160ish Boeing wide-bodies. This not to forget, of course, EY with their combined order for 130ish of the same.

Don't think this kind of industrial dispute raises many blips on the radars of either A or B.
Signature. You just read one.
 
321neo
Posts: 590
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RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:47 pm

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 24):
The pilot is the most important position in an airline, and has the lives of hundreds in their hands each flight.


Just to make it clear, the above applies to FR, EK, U2 etc. pilots as equally as it does to LH pilots.

Quoting B747400ERF (Reply 24):
The executive board at LH all make much more than EUR 1 million each year.

But the outrage is against the pilots?


Indeed they do earn that much, all 4 members of the board. Now, compare that figure with the number of LH pilots..
 
b747400erf
Posts: 3135
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2013 4:33 am

RE: Lufthansa Strike

Mon Dec 01, 2014 10:53 pm

Quoting ytz (Reply 39):
Try operating an airline without skilled technicians. And what do you think would happen if the techs screwed up at their job? They don't have hundreds of lives in their hands?

I was arguing only for the importance of the pilots. Their quick decision making is responsible for hundreds of lives. Of course there are many other workers who are also part of the puzzle, that is why workers in general deserve higher pay, not a race to the bottom, and 'be happy you have a job' mentality that has infected the world since Thatcher and Reagan ideologies invaded the planet. I can see there is no reasoning with certain people, only executives deserve above 6 figure salaries while everyone below deserves minimum wage.
 
RedChili
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:23 am

RE: Lufthansa Strike

Tue Dec 02, 2014 12:01 am

With LH on strike,
Let's hope that LX has capacity to spare,
So that passengers won't be split between OS and LO,
Or take a turkey on TK.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
n27903
Posts: 85
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2014 10:36 pm

RE: Lufthansa Strike

Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:27 am

I believe their a380 is parked in the superbay on SFO right now
 
AR385
Posts: 6924
Joined: Fri Nov 07, 2003 8:25 am

RE: Lufthansa Strike

Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:32 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 36):
My understanding is that it is not full pension at age 55, since pension funds are all done based on actuarial values, does it make a difference? If the contributions are not being used for "other purposes" the science is sound as it is used to create the early retirement benefits / percentages.

Yes, the science is sound. The issue (re. the Japan thread of a couple of weeks ago) is that not even actuarians were able to predict the advances in medical technology, specially on prevention, and in improved quality of living that enabled the great increase in life expectancy almost across the world in the last 3 decades. People were not expected to live to 80-85 back then. They were expected to die at 70-75 so a retirement at 55 or 60 was reasonable.

So now the young people´s contributions for THEIR OWN retirement is really being used to pay for the old people of today that were supposed to be dead years ago.

In a company like LH, and in many others, this is a real problem because they inherited these pension schemes when they were a government entity in a much more entrenched welfare-state philosophy. The pilots need to understand that.

At least that is the bigger issue in LH currently as I understand it.

Quoting par13del (Reply 36):
Is it possible that this is more about preventing early retirement of the pilots who do not want to work under the new structure and management does not see an available pilot replacement pool?

Yes. If I understand your question correctly. But not because of some nefarious, cheap mentality of management. It´s because the social benefits or yesteryear are no longer affordable and much less by a private entity.
 
PanHAM
Posts: 9731
Joined: Fri May 06, 2005 6:44 pm

RE: Lufthansa Strike

Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:46 am

When the Federal Republic sold their remaining Shares in LH, they made a deal to assume the liabilities for the civil servant like pensions, What the pilots have is something different. It secures the Option for early retirement at 55. LH wants to gradually take that from 55 to 60, in various stages. Same as the mandatory Pension scheme in Germany does right now.

The other issue is of course the wings concept. As I said before, the management wants to make LH fit for the future, securing all 100K + jobs in the Company. That is what the pilots are resisting. That will end up in a Company a bit larger than Privat Air.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
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N14AZ
Posts: 3799
Joined: Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:19 pm

RE: Lufthansa Strike

Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:03 am

Question: I will fly with LH at the end of March 2015 and April 2015. What are the chances that this conflict will be solved until then?

Or will this go on forever until LH is bancrupt and they start to replace the Lufthansa-titles on the aircrafts with Etihad-Germany-titles?

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