chuchoteur
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A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:22 pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI4jWYZLeHQ

Interesting footage of how Airbus planned, briefed and performed the 5x A350XWB formation flight.
In particular, the visual references they use to line up the correct position vs the leading aircraft. Nice video.
 
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Ab345
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:53 pm

Majestic...just left me breathless. The echelon formarion was a bit scary too   they seemed really close!

Flawless in every sense
 
rcair1
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 2:53 pm

Very nice - but shouldn't the title be "A Gaze: Five A350 XWBs together in flight"

Not really sure the value of this - but it is certainly a nice thing to watch.
This does show how "slow" an airliner is in responding to inputs compared to smaller aircraft.
They look pretty heavy. I'm sure part of that was on purpose.
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migair54
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 3:06 pm

Awesome video, thankS for sharing...

15th of January is the first comercial flight schedule between DOH and FRA.

I think there's a video similar with the A380 planes.
 
atnight
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:03 pm

Awesome video. Just a wonderful thing to watch.

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 2):
Not really sure the value of this - but it is certainly a nice thing to watch.

Are you kidding? You don't see the value of such display? Would you say the same about air shows? I believe that having done such flight formation and showing it off is great for customers, employees, marketing, and of course for collectibles, souvenirs, etc. Plus it just inspires people who one way or another support the industry, specifically Airbus in this case. I'm sure Boirng does similar things, I just have not seen it done with five 787s at the same time. Perhaps now Airbus has more of an ego? Whatever the case it's worth it for the company in many ways.

Kudos to Airbus for giving us who love airplanes an awesome video. Hope they have a longer one.
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:19 pm

Aircraft in flight should be beautiful to watch...

This gives the A350 a wonderful sense of controllable symmetry, power and gracefully smooth flight.

Not only that, but I can visualise many little kids (and adults) out there getting excited about planes when they see something as cool as this video - and I think THAT is the best reason to formation fly such large passenger aircraft!
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Pihero
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:25 pm

Thank you, Whisperer !
This is what love of aviation is about : sights that inspire, beauty of flight and of team work.
And thanks Airbus for providing this vid.
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Alfons
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:39 pm

Breathtaking. Obviously they'd never do such a formation with 300 souls inside each plane, as there IS a risk with such a show. Specially at 6:06, when they turn away so close from each other, how can the pilots from plane #3 see #2 for distance control (or #4 to #3), as they don't have an all around glass canopy like in a combat airplane?

Really crazy, but beautiful to watch.
 
rcair1
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:55 pm

Quoting atnight (Reply 4):
Are you kidding? You don't see the value of such display?

No.
By the way - I'm using value in the business sense. This will sell neither aircraft or seats.
It is cool - but pragmatically, expensive and a bit risky.

Quoting atnight (Reply 4):
Would you say the same about air shows?

For commercial a/c displays at airshows - probably.
I've been to many air shows and love them.
However, this was not at an airshow - there was no crowd of enthusiasts - of course, they could not do this at an airshow (too far away).
It was a great video - but no business value. Just like the 787 practice video. Great fun - no business value.
There may be some value of having commercial a/c at one or two commercial a/c trade shows.

Quoting atnight (Reply 4):
I'm sure Boirng does similar things

Yup

Again - I did not say I didn't like it - it was very cool to watch. But tying it to business value? Nah.
It is not like a car where a demo may cause the consumer to buy that brand/model.
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FlyBigDeltaJets
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:13 pm

Quoting Alfons (Reply 7):
Specially at 6:06, when they turn away so close from each other, how can the pilots from plane #3 see #2 for distance control (or #4 to #3), as they don't have an all around glass canopy like in a combat airplane?

I was thinking the same. Any chance they have a spotter in the chase/camera plane to provide feedback?
 
JimJupiter
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:23 pm

Great video - thank you!  

(But I'm a fan of aircraft and stuff.... not so much of big corporations and businessy things.)
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coronado
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:32 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 8):
It was a great video - but no business value.

Recruiting a future pool of aero engineers certainly has a business value.

If this video inspires 10000 10 year olds to get serious about studying math, physics and sciences in general and 15 years from now 10 or 20 of them line up to apply at Airbus, it was worth it. They may very well point to this video as the moment they decided to become an aero engineer. I am sure quite a few kids in their generation were similarly inspired by the Dash 80 (precursor to the 707) barrel roll in 1955 to pursue a science based education.

I have a cousin who at age 12 decided to became a cardiologist, and did so, because of Dr. Barnards transplant work in 1967.

You discount the impact of moments such as this A350 formation flight to inspire kids.
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Flyglobal
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:48 pm

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 8):
It was a great video - but no business value. Just like the 787 practice video. Great fun - no business value.
There may be some value of having commercial a/c at one or two commercial a/c trade shows.

Oh to be honest: did you ever have an own Staff. For people leader and people outsied of excel formulars it is obvious what this video does:

1) it is a thank you to the employees and suppliers involved in the project. And they have reason to be prpoud of it, as the test phase was rather trouble free - at least to our eyes - compared to previous Planes that went to service (e.G. A380). It strengthens the internal relationship and improves cooperation- nothing what a ' business value oriented person' ever can count. The company as awhole feels better with such a Video : 'Yes we can! is the message and it encorages pepole to give even more and go another extra mile.

2) it is a demonstration of strengh and superiority (regarding competition) towards potential customers- not a key deciding factor, but something which shows confidence and demonstrates an excellent business attitude.


3) It improves the Brand image of Airbus in general. With the general public (even if they never buy an Airbus) and with potential customers (not deciding, they don't buy a plane due to the video alone) - but it has its none quantifiable effect.

Regards

Flyglobal
 
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seabosdca
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:11 pm

Great achievement by Airbus, and the capstone of a marvelously executed program. The A350 can set a new bar for Airbus the way the 777 should have for Boeing.

The formation flight will be the symbol and souvenir of an achievement which I'm sure required countless late nights and hard decisions by Airbus engineers and management, as well as suppliers. Many involved with Airbus will remember it for what it means to their careers and legacies.

Quoting Coronado (Reply 11):
Recruiting a future pool of aero engineers certainly has a business value.

   This is another good point.
 
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:14 pm

Quoting Alfons (Reply 7):
hen they turn away so close from each other, how can the pilots from plane #3 see #2 for distance control (or #4 to #3), as they don't have an all around glass canopy like in a combat airplane?
Quoting FlyBigDeltaJets (Reply 9):
I was thinking the same. Any chance they have a spotter in the chase/camera plane to provide feedback?

Formation flying is about discipline and teamwork.
Discipline is flying a common way : bank at x degrees/second to a max of y degrees, keep speed constant...etc...
Teamwork is about always keeping formation and giving everybody every info needed for the formation safety.

The formation break signal is given by the leader :" 5 ; 4 ; 3 ; 2 ; 1 ...Top ! "... and that also gives the *rythm* for the following breaking planes.... a " 3,2,1,Top !" gives a 5 second separation... at 250 kt that's 1/12th of 4.15 nm, say ... 0.345 nm or 640 meters.
Where is the risk ?
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KarelXWB
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:23 pm

Nice video, I agree. The formation break speaks volumes.

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robffm2
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:54 pm

Great video. Was already online on A350 ipad app a few days ago!
 
slvrblt
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:08 pm

HOLY $HIT!!!

Whew! Just an incredible video, great PR for Airbus. I'm a Boeing guy, but this was really something to watch. Well done, Airbus.
..everything works out in the end.
 
abba
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:09 pm

I am breathless. What beauty!

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 8):
Great fun - no business value

What a narrow-minded view, indeed. It has huge business value. It makes suppliers and employees feeling proud of what they are doing. Its the difference between just laying bricks and building cathedrals. This video is helps bricklayers become cathedral builders.
 
Planesmart
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:30 pm

Even a frequent passenger like me is impressed.

Were some of the early customer pilots also involved?

Would have been some interesting discussions with insurers.
 
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Tugger
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 9:52 pm

Quoting Ab345 (Reply 1):
Majestic...just left me breathless. The echelon formarion was a bit scary too   they seemed really close!

Flawless in every sense

Gota admit, that was very very cool to watch!

Quoting FlyBigDeltaJets (Reply 9):
Quoting Alfons (Reply 7):
Specially at 6:06, when they turn away so close from each other, how can the pilots from plane #3 see #2 for distance control (or #4 to #3), as they don't have an all around glass canopy like in a combat airplane?

I was thinking the same. Any chance they have a spotter in the chase/camera plane to provide feedback?

Absolutely. While the lead pilot will be directing things, all aircraft involved will be on the same frequency and provide input and guidance as planned/needed/requested.

Quoting Coronado (Reply 11):
You discount the impact of moments such as this A350 formation flight to inspire

Inspiration is one of the most human and difficult to quantify of things. But as you and other note it is very important. It is an important element in getting things done, in getting people to "go beyond" and exceed expectations and sometimes just to succeed.

I think we forget that too often nowadays, in the world of business and value mapping/streaming. The world is far more than a business calculation.

Quoting flyglobal (Reply 12):
3) It improves the Brand image of Airbus in general. With the general public (even if they never buy an Airbus) and with potential customers (not deciding, they don't buy a plane due to the video alone) - but it has its none quantifiable effect.

I know people that have for years called every big aircraft they see a "widebody Boeing". Of course every jet aircraft they see seems to be a big plane and hence a "widebody Boeing" and I just have to chuckle when they do it (I long ago gave up trying to educate them and point out what type each aircraft actually was) but it was good marketing for Boeing even if it didn't technically lead directly to a purchase of an airplane by a customer.

I don't think this will have the same impact of course, its a different time and the "jet age" has been going on for a while and everyone is pretty much used to it, but it does have the "cool factor" and will catch on in certain circles (like a budding aero engineer... who doesn't yet realize that will be their career).

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 8):
But tying it to business value

Are you kidding? Now each airline/owner REALLY needs to buy the full set of five to really do all the cool stuff! I mean come on now....  

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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:42 pm

Quoting Tugger (Reply 20):
I know people that have for years called every big aircraft they see a "widebody Boeing". Of course every jet aircraft they see seems to be a big plane and hence a "widebody Boeing"

All jet airliners are 747s, didn't you get the memo? Even a single-aisle, twin-engine Airbus product.     

Quoting rcair1 (Reply 8):
Great fun - no business value.

Some 8yo girl just watched that and went "wow!" and made it her life mission to become a test pilot. Some 10yo boy saw it and went "wow!" and wants to build and design airplanes now. Maybe they'll work for Airbus and add value to the company.

You might as well ask why Boeing and Airbus have corporate logos and liveries. After all, no airline makes a purchase decision based on whether Boeing or Airbus has the cooler logo. But that video will be seen by hundreds of thousands if not millions. And it will further cement the Airbus brand into their minds.
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:25 am

... and then of course (purely from a business sense), there is demonstrating to your investors what you have been spending their money on these last x years!
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:37 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 15):
Nice video, I agree. The formation break speaks volumes.

Yes it does. Airplanes in motion, especially in formation flying, is always something special and a sight to see. No matter it is a formation of DC-3's, Spitfires, Mustangs of modern civil aviation airliners like a B787 or the A350.  
 
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Ab345
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:43 am

Inspiration is indeed a great thing that can come from the smallest things. You wouldn't believe the amount of women journalists that were inspired by Mary Tyler Moores' character (On her own show), Oprah Winfrey and Katie Couric being two very outspoken examples.

By the way the audio on this video is just amazing..:D Remember the music on the A380 first flight? Great stuff
 
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Francoflier
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:44 pm

I must say it's quite ballsy of Airbus to send out its only 5 A350 prototypes on a high profile, tight formation flight.

But worth it. The result is spectacular. Now that's what I call PR...
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rcair1
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:31 pm

Quoting abba (Reply 18):
What a narrow-minded view, indeed.
Quoting DocLightning (Reply 21):
Some 8yo girl just watched that and went "wow!" and made it her life mission to become a test pilot. Some 10yo boy saw it and went "wow!" and wants to build and design airplanes now. Maybe they'll work for Airbus and add value to the company.
Quoting Coronado (Reply 11):
If this video inspires 10000 10 year olds to get serious about studying math, physics and sciences in general and 15 years from now 10 or 20 of them line up to apply at Airbus, it was worth it

Cheeze you guys - lighten up a bit - you'd think I was arguing to shoot the pilots and PR department or something.

Frankly - it is unlikely that one video from Airbus (or Boeing) is going to change somebody's life view. It is much more likely they have a bunch of little things - often more tangible - touching an airplane, flying on one, talking to a pilot or engineer. Or it is just "built in"

For me - I was an 'engineer' when I was 5. There was never any choice (though I could have been a firefighter given what I know now - very similar motivation). I got excited about flying when bouncing around Alaska in bush planes at the age of 10-15.

Certainly - there are efforts by companies to influence students and expose them to new opportunities - and I've been both involved and support of that. As an engineer and alum I was responsible - as 'donation manager' for over $10M US in donations of technical equipment to my alma mater over a period of ~10 years from a large engineering company I worked for. The goals of that program were 1) to better the education of future employees and 2) have them familiar with our equipment so they would buy it when they were gainfully employed. That program, sadly, went the way of the dodo.

Airbus has every right to spend their money this way - and bully to them. But it will not sell airplanes - which is all I said.

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 22):
... and then of course (purely from a business sense), there is demonstrating to your investors what you have been spending their money on these last x years!

That is the best argument I have heard.

Quoting Tugger (Reply 20):
Are you kidding? Now each airline/owner REALLY needs to buy the full set of five to really do all the cool stuff! I mean come on now...

  

Quoting Ab345 (Reply 24):
By the way the audio on this video is just amazing

I loved the coordination.
This had to be some pretty high stress flying.... Great planning.
rcair1
 
rg787
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:38 pm

That looks like something Boeing would do years ago... I am almost turning into airbus after this!
 
ardian
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:29 pm

Seriously, what's not to love about this video. This is poetry in motion... In combination with the excellent (and epic) music, I was simply blown away
 
Pihero
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:43 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 23):

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 15):
Nice video, I agree. The formation break speaks volumes.

Yes it does. Airplanes in motion, especially in formation flying, is always something special and a sight to see.

So maybe you'd be interested in Airbus widebody family flying in formation

...of course if you hadn't seen it yet !
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Pihero
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:44 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 23):

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 15):
Nice video, I agree. The formation break speaks volumes.

Yes it does. Airplanes in motion, especially in formation flying, is always something special and a sight to see.

So maybe you'd be interested in Airbus widebody family flying in formation

...of course if you hadn't seen it yet !

What is remarkable is the *family air*... They belong to the same stable, for sure.
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EPA001
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:00 pm

Quoting Pihero (Reply 29):
...of course if you hadn't seen it yet !

Thanks Pihero. I had seen this one, but it never hurts to watch it another time.  
 
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hilram
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:47 pm

Awesome.

But Boeing still holds the lead in Public display With Tex Johnston's Barrel Roll in the 707 back in 1955!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaA7kPfC5Hk

  
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Unflug
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:41 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 32):
Awesome.

But Boeing still holds the lead in Public display With Tex Johnston's Barrel Roll in the 707 back in 1955!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaA7kPfC5Hk

Unfortunately I'm not sure Boeing was actually as pleased with that public display as Airbus is with the video production we are discussing  
 
Planesmart
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:49 pm

Quoting Unflug (Reply 33):
Unfortunately I'm not sure Boeing was actually as pleased with that public display as Airbus is with the video production we are discussing

I think that was an understatement.
 
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bikerthai
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RE: A350 XWB Formation Flight Behind The Scenes

Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:15 pm

You all are missing the point. The video is just a prelude to Airbus submitting their proposal for the KC-Y competition   

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