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max999
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Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:44 pm

NPR is reporting that due to terror threats over this holiday season, all carry on items may get banned for Europe bound flights.

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/...out-terror-attack-around-christmas

Quote:
Counterterrorism officials in the U.S. and the United Kingdom have been quietly discussing an outright ban on hand-carried luggage aboard airplanes for weeks now in the wake of intelligence reports that suggest al-Qaida may be planning to target planes around Europe before the Christmas holidays.
Quote:
The plot, the U.K. newspaper reports and U.S. officials confirm, is thought to involve the smuggling of bombs onto planes bound for major cities in Europe. The plan did not seem to include any U.S.-bound flights, U.S. officials told NPR.

In response, counterterrorism officials on both sides of the Atlantic have been discussing how to prevent the attacks. One remedy under consideration is to ban all carry-on baggage, though there is some question as to whether airlines would push back against such a draconian provision.

Another possible remedy: banning electronic devices from the passenger cabin. Officials are discussing whether to require that electronics such as cellphones, iPads and computers be placed in the cargo hold with checked baggage, which goes through a much more rigorous screening process. Detecting a bomb, if there is one, would be more likely.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
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LOWS
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 4:52 pm

Well, I can only hope that the Express is being inflamatory (like usual).

There is no way in hell most people, myself included, would check their laptops.
 
Andy33
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 5:14 pm

Quoting LOWS (Reply 1):

I agree, the fact that the report appeared in the Express automatically reduces its credibility. The fact that it was datelined some 32 hours ago and similar reports aren't appearing elsewhere in the UK media just about destroys it.
 
ryu2
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:42 pm

They did the same thing of banning carryons for a short while in 2006 after the liquid explosive plot. It didn't last very long.

[Edited 2014-12-02 10:43:34]
 
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par13del
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 6:56 pm

Quoting ryu2 (Reply 3):
It didn't last very long.

The question is, was it long enough to counter the specific threat, we all know that leaving residual restrictions in place - 311 items etc. - keeps society on our toes and makes travel not as comfortable.
 
twal1011727
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 7:56 pm

Carrying Li-Ion batts in the cargo hold is not allowed by airlines due to the tendency to burst into flames.
This would make the idea of putting electronic devices down below very hard to enforce.

KD
 
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par13del
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:02 pm

Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 5):
Carrying Li-Ion batts in the cargo hold is not allowed by airlines due to the tendency to burst into flames.
This would make the idea of putting electronic devices down below very hard to enforce.

It could create a whole new industry and allow computer / tablet makers to increase production.
Rent an electronic device when travelling to be picked up at your destination, since everyone now uses the cloud, no need to have actual data on the device.
Gotta go call Warren Buffet on this investment option....... 
 
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LOWS
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 8:24 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 6):
Rent an electronic device when travelling to be picked up at your destination, since everyone now uses the cloud, no need to have actual data on the device.

So, renting out Chromebooks?
 
billreid
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:01 pm

Why not just the battery?
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LOWS
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:16 pm

Quoting billreid (Reply 8):
Why not just the battery?

Because most laptops now have non-removable batteries.
 
DAL763ER
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:32 pm

I bet some terrorists are now just reading this and laughing their asses off at how stupid and ridiculous we've become. This is even more stupid than the liquids rule. We've been dealing with this sort of crap for almost 20 years. Can we not actually find a way to fly without eventually going through the scanner naked? Put air marshals on flights, scan all bags properly/make better scanners, open checked bags as well if you must (it's already being done anyway), do profiling, keep the cockpit door closed and be done with it. How far are we going to let this go?
 
runway23
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:34 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 6):
Rent an electronic device when travelling to be picked up at your destination, since everyone now uses the cloud, no need to have actual data on the device.

That works well when you're traveling for business - not.
 
DAL763ER
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:44 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 6):
It could create a whole new industry and allow computer / tablet makers to increase production.
Rent an electronic device when travelling to be picked up at your destination, since everyone now uses the cloud, no need to have actual data on the device.

I wish this could actually happen, but I'm afraid our current technology doesn't allow us to. It would mean every time you arrive somewhere, you have to spend time downloading apps and data. Unless you do it on company internet, and even then, things will not be so smooth. Try using LTE in a crowded area. Or a (crappy) hotel internet connection. Until all connections are reliable and fast, we have a long way to go.
 
AA77W
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 10:58 pm

Let's see, I'm flying home for Christmas and family is picking me up . . .
1. I check my iPhone and the flight is delayed. -- No calling or texting anyone to let them know.
2. I've checked my iPhone and Laptop and signs are everywhere for in-flight Internet. -- Gogo (and others) have lost tons of revenue.
3. I arrive at my destination (late) and by bags are lost. -- No iPhone, No Laptop, No Extra Clothes, etc...

Yea, this ain't happening.
 
b747400erf
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:24 pm

Ban carry ons during the busiest time of year? All due to rumors of a threat? Making longer lines to check baggage and more work for rampers. Good idea! sounds to me like the security services are worried about lower budgets and need to remind everyone that they are the only thing keeping you safe from the boogieman.
 
RetiredWeasel
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:40 pm

Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 5):
Carrying Li-Ion batts in the cargo hold is not allowed by airlines due to the tendency to burst into flames.
This would make the idea of putting electronic devices down below very hard to enforce.

Li-ion batteries are fine in checked baggage as long as they are installed in the device they are meant to power. Spare or loose Li-ion batts are not allowed. So you could check a laptop.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Tue Dec 02, 2014 11:55 pm

While I could see a rule that steps up screening of carry-ons and mandating one and only one carry-on, I don't see them banning them outright. It would create the mother of all messes as folks won't get the word or will gamble that it "won't apply to them" and the mess at security and/or the boarding gate will be hellish.

I'm glad we're staying home for the holidays.
 
aloges
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:04 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 6):
Rent an electronic device when travelling to be picked up at your destination, since everyone now uses the cloud, no need to have actual data on the device.

That's every modern-day spy's wet dream.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
ushermittwoch
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:17 am

Why not ban all passengers from flying? Would solve a lot of problems, imho.
Where have all the tri-jets gone...
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:27 am

Forget flying all together, just get rid of airplanes. Cuts emissions and noise, reduces terror, fixes global warming, cancer, and every other nasty thing you can think of.

What's not to like?
 
skysurfer
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:34 am

Usual rhetoric around holidays or low ratings.......release a report regarding new threats and voila, government is doing something good. Seems to be cyclical and those of us that travel have more of our freedoms eroded due to the 'illusion' of safety. George Carlin nailed it years ago....yet we allow ourselves to give in. Trains, ferries, busses.....no issue there is there.
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vikkyvik
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:36 am

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 19):
Forget flying all together, just get rid of airplanes. Cuts emissions and noise, reduces terror, fixes global warming, cancer, and every other nasty thing you can think of.

Not to mention, airports won't have to worry about those pesky suspicious photographers loitering at the fence!
I'm watching Jeopardy. The category is worst Madonna songs. "This one from 1987 is terrible".
 
RetiredWeasel
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:44 am

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 19):
and every other nasty thing you can think of.

Yea, and chem trails...  
 
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ua900
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 12:53 am

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 19):
Forget flying all together, just get rid of airplanes. Cuts emissions and noise, reduces terror, fixes global warming, cancer, and every other nasty thing you can think of.

What's not to like?

Cunard experience was superior to F cabin anyway and Amtrak wouldn't have a deficit anymore... On the EU side the Orient Express can provide the connectivity to the UK to catch the Cunard ship. Tui can revert back to Hapag Lloyd  
Quoting vikkyvik (Reply 21):
Not to mention, airports won't have to worry about those pesky suspicious photographers loitering at the fence!

Every airport could be like THF... and it would solve the BER disaster right next door.
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adambrau
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:16 am

While not looking forward to it, I am driving from NYC to Florida for Christmas only because I want to bring my Labrador. No way I would ship him via cargo.
JFK Friendly
 
StuckInCA
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:28 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 6):
It could create a whole new industry and allow computer / tablet makers to increase production.
Rent an electronic device when travelling to be picked up at your destination, since everyone now uses the cloud, no need to have actual data on the device.

I guess all of my coworkers and I are odd then. I carry a laptop with CAD software and FEA software on it among other things. That's not running on a Chromebook and it's not running from the cloud. It also will not be in checked baggage.
 
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Oceanic
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:30 am

Next thing it'll be your wallet, your keys, and all your clothes. All passengers must change into hospital gowns before the security checkpoint
 
QualityDr
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:46 am

Quoting StuckInCA (Reply 25):
I guess all of my coworkers and I are odd then.

Others are odd too: I have over $15k in specialized software on my box, and it's never out of my sight. Won't be in luggage, you can bet. The possibility's getting more remote every day, though. I now do about 85% of my work for clients right at my home desk, and we teleconference for the details. I don't even do enough flying to get any premium status, though I once carried several top ones...
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kdhurst380
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 1:57 am

Might aswell just ban everything. If an increased terror threat now means that they feel the need to ban hand luggage, then what does that say for existing scanning processes? In the UK we have belts, jackets and if you're picked (though it seems to be if you set the detector off) shoes off, how much more in depth can they go?

These terrorists must be laughing at us.
 
global2
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:43 am

Just wondering--if such a ban were to go into effect, what would the airlines do about their baggage fees? Would they have to permit at least one free checked bag? Or could they get away with "Sorry, it's not our policy, it's the TSA's so you'll have to pay the fee regardless" ?
 
OB1504
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:57 am

Quoting global2 (Reply 29):
Or could they get away with "Sorry, it's not our policy, it's the TSA's so you'll have to pay the fee regardless" ?

Probably. They already do this with duty-free items in carry-on baggage, and no American airline pays for customs-induced misconnects.
 
AR385
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:06 am

A point is going to be reached where society needs to accept that in this day and age using certain means of mass transportation carries the risk of dying in a terrorist attack. Other than that, what else will keep being banned? It seemed funny a few years ago but now it does seem possible that we will actually have to fly in special clothes provided at the airport.

Furthermore, these efforts are useless, because there will be a terrorist attack. A plane, a train, a bus will be bombed sometime, somewhere. It´s happened since the beginning of time. Will keep happening.

Terrorists have become Master Outsourcers of their work. If they get authorities to implement measures like banning carry on such short notice during December, then they´ve won. Again. The havoc that will ensue is what they want. The fear, the anger, the eroding of more freedoms. Without actually doing nothing.

The message that governments need to send to passengers is: "We will do everything to protect you within reason, but be aware it may not be enough. And we really can´t be going around banning everything until air travel becomes impractical, and a real pain."

My two cents.
 
max999
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:18 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 31):
A point is going to be reached where society needs to accept that in this day and age using certain means of mass transportation carries the risk of dying in a terrorist attack. Other than that, what else will keep being banned? It seemed funny a few years ago but now it does seem possible that we will actually have to fly in special clothes provided at the airport.

Furthermore, these efforts are useless, because there will be a terrorist attack. A plane, a train, a bus will be bombed sometime, somewhere. It´s happened since the beginning of time. Will keep happening.

Terrorists have become Master Outsourcers of their work. If they get authorities to implement measures like banning carry on such short notice during December, then they´ve won. Again. The havoc that will ensue is what they want. The fear, the anger, the eroding of more freedoms. Without actually doing nothing.

The message that governments need to send to passengers is: "We will do everything to protect you within reason, but be aware it may not be enough. And we really can´t be going around banning everything until air travel becomes impractical, and a real pain."

I think you're correct in the sense that fear is driving a lot of this irrational response from the government (let's ban all carry ons!). However, the fear you think they're responding to is incorrect.

Governments are used to wars and terror attacks so they don't necessarily fear the terrorists. What they truly fear is being harshly criticized for not doing enough to prevent the next attack. Even worse, they fear being kicked out of office if the voters blame them for not preventing it. So they play the whole game of security theater...they have to at least appear to be doing something or else they'll look weak and ineffective if something does happen.

Ultimately, you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[Edited 2014-12-02 20:26:38]
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
AR385
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:27 am

Quoting max999 (Reply 32):
What they truly fear is being harshly criticized for not doing enough to prevent the next attack. Even worse, they fear being kicked out of office if the voters blame them for not preventing the attack.

Totally agree with you and my post may not have been clear enough. But at the beginning of it, I do say "Society needs to accept..." So then governments will not feel they are on the hook for not doing enough. Because we are really getting to the point where enough is really enough.
 
Cadet985
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:32 am

Quoting LOWS (Reply 1):
There is no way in hell most people, myself included, would check their laptops.
Quoting AA77W (Reply 13):

Let's see, I'm flying home for Christmas and family is picking me up . . .
1. I check my iPhone and the flight is delayed. -- No calling or texting anyone to let them know.
2. I've checked my iPhone and Laptop and signs are everywhere for in-flight Internet. -- Gogo (and others) have lost tons of revenue.
3. I arrive at my destination (late) and by bags are lost. -- No iPhone, No Laptop, No Extra Clothes, etc...

Yea, this ain't happening.

Banning carry-ons all together is by far the STUPIDEST idea I've ever heard of. Let's take electronics out of the picture - because I don't care if I'm flying 2 hours or 10 hours, my laptop and Kindle are with me. Some people take medications.

1. The airlines don't want them in the cargo holds because of the increased responsibility, chance of theft, or chance you'll need them in flight.

2. If you need your meds, you can't get to them during the flight. Sorry...but taking a pain pill before I'm in pain, or a sleeping pill before I want to sleep - that's asinine.

3. Do the airlines (and governments) really want to be responsible if someone dies because they were forced to put their medication in checked luggage (which also any doctor or pharmacist will advise against doing as well)?

All in all, I wholeheartedly agree with LOWS and AA77W.

If the US and EU were really serious about aviation security, they'd hire El Al consultants. I don't care what your feelings about Israel are, but El Al is the world's most secure airline.

If they want to ban carry-ons, they might as well get their checkbooks ready, because suddenly, everyone is going to have stolen laptops, etc.

Marc
 
opethfan
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:39 am

Quoting DAL763ER (Reply 10):
I bet some terrorists are now just reading this and laughing their asses off at how stupid and ridiculous we've become. This is even more stupid than the liquids rule. We've been dealing with this sort of crap for almost 20 years. Can we not actually find a way to fly without eventually going through the scanner naked? Put air marshals on flights, scan all bags properly/make better scanners, open checked bags as well if you must (it's already being done anyway), do profiling, keep the cockpit door closed and be done with it. How far are we going to let this go?

There is a (potentially offensive, so be warned) theory floating around that the TSA have killed more Americans than the 9/11 attacks. The logic being that x% of travellers have said "we're not flying due to the state of TSA screening, so we'll drive instead" - considering how dangerous driving is compared to flying, enough people have been put on the roads (and therefore faced fatal accidents) than were killed in terrorist attacks.

I'm not sure that I can buy into that reasoning, but it's a point to consider.

Quoting max999 (Reply 32):
What they truly fear is being harshly criticized for not doing enough to prevent the next attack. Even worse, they fear being kicked out of office if the voters blame them for not preventing it.

Governments don't care about being voted out or being blamed. Worst case scenario, they enter the private sector or take a back seat while party B takes the reigns for a few years until everybody forgets. Congress has a single digit approval rating but 90+% reelection rate.

The trouble comes from conflicts of interest, friends in the industry, etc. A few organizations made BANK on AIT machines, and the money-politics connection is devastatingly depressing.

Quoting AR385 (Reply 31):
Furthermore, these efforts are useless, because there will be a terrorist attack. A plane, a train, a bus will be bombed sometime, somewhere. It´s happened since the beginning of time. Will keep happening.

You're more likely to die brushing your teeth than in a terrorist attack. I like those odds. If everyone else wants to be a coward and run around with their tails between their legs then they can, but leave me out of it. I'd rather live free and die, for there are some fates worse than death.
 
max999
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:43 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 33):
Totally agree with you and my post may not have been clear enough. But at the beginning of it, I do say "Society needs to accept..." So then governments will not feel they are on the hook for not doing enough. Because we are really getting to the point where enough is really enough.

That's a tough sell in many countries when politics come into play. Especially in the US's polarized political environment, it's all black and white - you either have perfect security or you are supporting the terrorists.

Quoting Cadet985 (Reply 34):
If the US and EU were really serious about aviation security, they'd hire El Al consultants. I don't care what your feelings about Israel are, but El Al is the world's most secure airline.

This has been discussed many times on here. The general consensus on a.net is that the Israeli method of security is not scalable to the number of passengers in the US and Europe. It works for them because the number of passengers is comparatively tiny and they have a high ratio of security staff. To implement the same thing would require massive number of TSA staff and very long waits because of the sheer number of passengers going through that type of vigorous screening. I can attest it's vigorous because I've flown through TLV. The US and Europe can take parts of their security method that make sense, but not all of it.

[Edited 2014-12-02 20:46:46]
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
AR385
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:54 am

Quoting max999 (Reply 36):
That's a tough sell in many countries when politics come into play. Especially in the US's polarized political environment, it's all black and white - you either have perfect security or you are supporting the terrorists.

I agree. But you can´t have it both ways. You can´t get angry because you don´t like the TSA and what they do, and at the same time get angry because the government is not doing enough to prevent terrorist attacks geared towards the airline industry.

That´s why I say the mindset has to change. You want to go to Europe? Good. But then accept that flying (from the US to the EU return specially) involves the inherent risk of being a target of terrorism. Whatever is done. It will happen. Even when the day arrives when we have to fly naked and without luggage, it will happen. So stop demanding unreasonable security measures. Accept the risk as part of life and go with it.

Or maybe there is a market niche for an airline that can apply its own measures to reduce the risk of an attack to zero. I doubt people will flock to it in droves though.
 
max999
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 4:59 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 37):
But you can´t have it both ways. You can´t get angry because you don´t like the TSA and what they do, and at the same time get angry because the government is not doing enough to prevent terrorist attacks geared towards the airline industry.

But having your cake and eating it too is an integral part of American exceptionalism! You should have it both ways!  

Setting aside my facetiousness, I understand your point that a certain level of risk acceptance is needed amongst everyone. I don't think it's realistic though because of how politics works.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
cschleic
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:10 am

Quoting AR385 (Reply 31):
A point is going to be reached where society needs to accept that in this day and age using certain means of mass transportation carries the risk of dying in a terrorist attack.

Right. Or something more common.....People do something more dangerous every day...drive/ride in a car. Nearly 35,000 people are killed each year in the U.S. in highway accidents (almost 100/day), and we generally don't think much about the risk.
 
DAL763ER
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:16 am

Quoting Oceanic (Reply 26):
Next thing it'll be your wallet, your keys, and all your clothes. All passengers must change into hospital gowns before the security checkpoint

I wouldn't trust someone going through security in a hospital gown. Who knows what they could be hiding up the different orifices...  
 
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pvjin
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:43 am

I think all Europe needs is better border control and stricter immigration standards. As long as that doesn't happen it's almost certain Islamic terrorists will manage to commit a massive attack of some kind within next 10 years, there are simply too many radical islamists with EU passports around.

But of course doing anything to that would be politically incorrect, after all we are supposed to tolerate the intolerant in name of political correctness.
"Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that." - Martin Luther King Jr
 
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hufftheweevil
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RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:30 am

If they did implement this policy, even if temporary, the agencies involved clearly don't have any faith in their own screening system. It would appear to me that they don't think they can detect a bomb in a bag, which is their job. If they don't think they can do that, what's the point of all the policies and procedures already in place?

It's like a hospital saying "Sorry, we don't think we can actually heal anyone anymore. Please stop getting sick and hurt."

Quoting clickhappy (Reply 19):
Forget flying all together, just get rid of airplanes.

Whoa! Now you've gone too far, mister. I vote him off Anet. Anyone second?  
Quoting Opethfan (Reply 35):
There is a (potentially offensive, so be warned) theory floating around that the TSA have killed more Americans than the 9/11 attacks. The logic being that x% of travellers have said "we're not flying due to the state of TSA screening, so we'll drive instead" - considering how dangerous driving is compared to flying, enough people have been put on the roads (and therefore faced fatal accidents) than were killed in terrorist attacks.

I'm not sure that I can buy into that reasoning, but it's a point to consider.

Well, just using some numbers from basic sources online: Roughly 427,000 deaths by car accident in the US since 2002. And roughly 3000 deaths from 9/11. So if more 0.7% of the car accident deaths were "let's drive because TSA is so annoying" people, then theory might hold true. If not now, then eventually sometime in the future.

However, I do pose that, in counter of those deaths, the TSA has prevented a certain number of deaths as well; although that's an number that could never be calculated. Not only would you count times TSA has actually removed a threat, but also threats that never happened because the TSA was created.
Huff
 
Andy33
Posts: 2570
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:37 am

It is now two days since this story appeared on the website of the UK's Daily Express newspaper. Still none of the other UK print or broadcast media outlets have made a splash with it. It may be a coincidence but a new bill seeking to give the government more counter terrorism powers is going through Parliament this week. My assumption is that the rest of the UK media either don't believe the story at all, or think it is an excessively obvious attempt to influence the Parliamentary discussion.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5106
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:41 am

Quoting LOWS (Reply 1):
here is no way in hell most people, myself included, would check their laptops.

Get off it! !!
If they Banned carry-on's for safety?? You'd do it or stay HOME!! Unless you REALLY didn't NEED to go in the first place.
What would make YOUR laptop valued at more than other passenger's Lives?? They're not doing this on a whim!!
Or talking about it just to have something to DO!!
 
flynhi808
Posts: 137
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:30 am

RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 6:55 am

Well, I traveled through PDX on the holiday weekend, and we weren't required to take ANYTHING (even laptops) out of our bags, and our shoes got to stay on. The difference was we all had to walk past one of those bomb sniffing dogs. The downside is there was one "dog line" weather you were first/business or not... so it did take a little bit longer, although it did split off AFTER the dog.
fly-n-HI-808
 
DAL763ER
Posts: 532
Joined: Thu Oct 02, 2008 7:20 pm

RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:13 am

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 44):
Get off it! !!
If they Banned carry-on's for safety?? You'd do it or stay HOME!! Unless you REALLY didn't NEED to go in the first place.
What would make YOUR laptop valued at more than other passenger's Lives?? They're not doing this on a whim!!
Or talking about it just to have something to DO!!

Oh please, that's nonsense! Every time something is put in place "for safety", people say "well, if it makes it safe, I'm all for it.". That shouldn't be the case. It's bull. Sure, put some measures in place *within reason*. But should something like this be implemented, even temporarily, we will have lost every right. I've always been of the principle that whoever wants to outsmart measures will be able to no matter what. Whether we're talking terrorism or hackers stealing credit cards and identities. Why inconvenience millions (or even billions) of people for something that is very unlikely to happen. And regardless of what measures we put in place, that might still actually happen (all while everyone's suffering consequences of knee-jerk reactions meant to serve nobody).

And yeah, if they did ban carryons, I'm sure many would stop flying. Flying is very stressful as it is with the amount of measures and crap in place. Business people will do videoconferencing for deals, regular people will just stay home. Anyone care to place bets on which airline goes bankrupt first?

[Edited 2014-12-02 23:15:44]
 
B777LRF
Posts: 2770
Joined: Sun Nov 02, 2008 4:23 am

RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 7:28 am

Quoting par13del (Reply 6):
since everyone now uses the cloud

The .... what? Sorry mate, but there's an enormous amount of people who either haven't a clue what the cloud is, or who refuse to use it on privacy grounds. I'm in the latter group, and none of my bits and bytes will ever make it to the cloud with my acceptance.
Signature. You just read one.
 
tommy1808
Posts: 14134
Joined: Thu Nov 21, 2013 3:24 pm

RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:25 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 17):
That's every modern-day spy's wet dream.

For a corporate IT department it would be cheaper and easier to keep data and applications in the cloud safe then on a physical device. Modern encryption is a spies nightmare and effective policies are easier to enforce and inintrusion detection systems work much more effective if physical security can be maintained.
But you wouldn't want anything with a display in an unheated hold....

Best regards
Thomas
Well, there is prophecy in the bible after all: 2 Timothy 3:1-6
 
Andy33
Posts: 2570
Joined: Tue Sep 15, 2009 9:30 am

RE: Terror Threat - All Carry Ons May Get Banned In EU

Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:29 am

Quoting tommy1808 (Reply 48):

How many passenger aircraft actually do have unheated holds these days?

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