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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:25 pm

Well the plane just rolled out from cabin fit and would be prepared to perform its customer flights. That's when a customer may discover some issues.
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Aviaponcho
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:30 pm

Yes
But what i say is that Airbus AND RR had means to flight test it between TLS and XFW before entering cabin fitting.

So i find it strange
Anyway do you know if EP3 is all about durability or also SFC ?
 
Someone83
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Fri Nov 18, 2016 12:41 pm

It could also be a minor issue such as some parameters on one of the engines are outside the specific range, but who knows.

We're probably not talking about another PW G1100 story here ;)
 
Tedd
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Fri Nov 18, 2016 1:28 pm

Someone83 wrote:
It could also be a minor issue such as some parameters on one of the engines are outside the specific range, but who knows.

We're probably not talking about another PW G1100 story here ;)


OMG, that really would be bad news. I`d be pretty sure these will turn out to be minor issues to do with the fact that
these Emirate T900`s are the first of the latest pip`s. Surprised they`d be picked up on the flights from TLS to XFW
though, as I`d assume that's all the air miles these first few frames ( 3 or 4 at a guess ) have done. Hopefully RR can
satisfy Sir Tim to avoid embarrassment a delay to EIS could cause.
 
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Revelation
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Fri Nov 18, 2016 2:21 pm

Aviaponcho wrote:
Yes
But what i say is that Airbus AND RR had means to flight test it between TLS and XFW before entering cabin fitting.

So i find it strange
Anyway do you know if EP3 is all about durability or also SFC ?



The article linked in viewtopic.php?t=776629 gives us:

The EP3 package includes elliptical leading edges on compressor blades, and a variety of improvements “around aerodynamics,” says Johnston, who adds the EP3 is “quite an unusual mod package because it was done in less than a year, and none of the modifications change the overall certification and none of them needed a type test.” The package includes casing improvements, optimizing cooling air and sealing and “improvements around the high pressure turbine, which will be important given the operating environment,” he adds.


Seems to me it is about both durability and SFC.

It's also interesting to read the bragging about not needing a type test. One wonders if more testing would have provided more data to help sort out the issue.

http://www.reuters.com/article/emirates ... W9?rpc=401 says:

"We want the engines as prescribed in the contract," Clark said at a meeting with journalists in Berlin, declining to elaborate.


Unfortunately it doesn't tell us anything about the nature of the issue.
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Fri Nov 18, 2016 5:02 pm

Aviaponcho wrote:
A performance issue on a 10 years old engine? What are we missing? An EP3 package ?


Yes, Emirates A380s are the first models to be delivered with the Trent 900 EP3.


viewtopic.php?t=776629
 
BOAC1966
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Fri Nov 18, 2016 7:30 pm

MKE weather seems too mild for true icing tests ...at least for the next week!
 
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sat Nov 19, 2016 3:33 am

KarelXWB wrote:
Well the plane just rolled out from cabin fit and would be prepared to perform its customer flights. That's when a customer may discover some issues.


EK will have simulator updates for the RR engine, so may have noted differences / discrepancies between RR and EA, and more importantly, RR performance guarantee variances, when flying the same routes/conditions.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sat Nov 19, 2016 1:24 pm

Yesterday MSN 193 QR #7 was ferried XFW-TLS to prepare the delivery.

Image
Msn193 F-WWSD 19/11/2016 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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BOAC1966
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sat Nov 19, 2016 8:33 pm

F-WWOW according to FR24 spent six hours low level flying northeast of MKE. Suggests ice linked testing for -1000 or does she have fitted an engine of RR that causing EK issues?
 
Tedd
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:35 pm

BOAC1966 wrote:
F-WWOW according to FR24 spent six hours low level flying northeast of MKE. Suggests ice linked testing for -1000 or does she have fitted an engine of RR that causing EK issues?


Saw a vid of F-WWOW land at MKE.......It was the XWB-97 attached.
 
WIederling
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sat Nov 19, 2016 9:38 pm

Aviaponcho wrote:
Hello Karel

A performance issue on a 10 years old engine ?
What are we missing?
An EP3 package ?

IMU RR sold a 4% sfc imrpovement for this batch ( and the swap to Trent900 )
Murphy is an optimist
 
lowbank
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:38 am

WIederling wrote:
Aviaponcho wrote:
Hello Karel

A performance issue on a 10 years old engine ?
What are we missing?
An EP3 package ?

IMU RR sold a 4% sfc imrpovement for this batch ( and the swap to Trent900 )


Gents please, honestly there would have to be some major redesigning done to get 4% if that was even possible on a mature engine.

The EP3 package had an SFC target improvement and all mods had to be able to implemented without type test, the mod I was working on was dropped as the lead times were way beyond the target engine date.

We may be good but 4% good, no.
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WIederling
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 9:49 am

lowbank wrote:
We may be good but 4% good, no.


That's what the rumor mill cycled around at the time.
one ref:
https://leehamnews.com/2015/04/16/rolls ... 380-order/

squishy wording, obviously:
"According to one source, EK determined the RR Trent 900 was determined to be up to 4% more efficient than EA."


IMU and at the time that offer was seen as the next best thing to get below a NEO ising of the A380.
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lowbank
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 10:45 am

That wording is saying that the T900 is more effecient by 4%, not that the EP3 will be 4% more efficient than the EP2 version. At least thats my take on the wording.

Could not comment on a comparison between the RR engine and EA version as I have zero knowledge of that.

The mod I was working on would have given 0.02-0.03 benefit on SFC and Would have cost around 1 million to design and implement. Thats the level of commitment that will be done for gains so small.
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WIederling
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:19 pm

lowbank wrote:
That wording is saying that the T900 is more effecient by 4%, not that the EP3 will be 4% more efficient than the EP2 version. At least thats my take on the wording.

Mentioned in context was that the current T900 was lagging the GP7200 by 1% ( pre EP2!)
http://airinsight.com/2013/11/27/the-a380-engine-bluff/ ( written at the time of airframe sale
and not when the engine decission was fixed.)

after engine decission.
http://airinsight.com/2015/04/28/the-em ... 0-engines/

4% vs. GP offer ( 1.4%up ) ergo 5.3% over pre EP2 ?


Reporting today is rather murky, no specifics given. ( Clarks starts to sound like the UturnBaker.)
http://www.reuters.com/article/emirates ... ompanyNews
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lowbank
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 12:39 pm

I was not involved in the EP2 so have no idea what gains were planned or achieved. I also cannot comment on the planned gains for the EP3 but it was no where near 4%.
I wish I could but its not allowed.
Yes I read the article and don't have any idea about that.
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WIederling
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:07 pm

lowbank wrote:
I was not involved in the EP2 so have no idea what gains were planned or achieved.

literature says ~.8%
I also cannot comment on the planned gains for the EP3 but it was no where near 4%.
I wish I could but its not allowed.
Yes I read the article and don't have any idea about that.


Sometimes waiting is an option. ( not a likeable one, though :-)
We'll see what news the next week brings.
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Tedd
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:10 pm

I`d have been surprised at a 4% difference. These two great engines in question have always been close
in SFC, each one gaining very slightly with their respective pips. I`d imagine Sir Tim had no choice than to
go with the engine that would continue to improve, as just one pip would translate to a lot of fuel over the course
of a year with the sheer size of his fleet. IMHO he`s unhappy about something very minor ( SFC or not )
that should be sorted amicably with RR & quickly, as there`s a lot at stake beyond the A380.
 
WIederling
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:34 pm

Tedd: I`d have been surprised at a 4% difference.

.8 was EP2. This here is EP3,EP-EMI or whatever.
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 1:42 pm

I expect EK to accept delivery with a gap-closing project to follow over a few months
 
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:00 pm

[quote="WIederling"][/quote]

Those articles are all quite unclear. The Trent 900 has four build standards. T900, T900EP, T900EP2 and now it seems T900EP3. AFAIK the difference between T900 and T900EP is 1% and EP2 gives 0.8%.
The GP7200 was said to have a better fuel burn in straight and level flight and the Trent 900 a better climb performance and a better retention of performance over time. That was original version GP7200 against original version T900.
I can not Imagine a EP3 bringing more than more than 1 to 2% fuel burn advantage over the EP2, but perhaps the whole difference between T900 and T900EP3 is getting near to 4%.
Was there ever a PIP for the GP7200 that lowered fuel burn? I did read about thrust increase, operating at full thrust at higher ambient temperatures, increased durability while operating in tough environment, better retention of fuel burn over time and increased time between service.
 
lowbank
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:08 pm

JerseyFlyer wrote:
I expect EK to accept delivery with a gap-closing project to follow over a few months


No doubt there will be.
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 4:31 pm

Leaving the GTF aside, a PIP usually brings 0.5 to 1% fuel burn improvements. I suppose 4% would be the difference between the original T900 and the latest EP3 upgrade.
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:01 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
MSN220 EK #86 is being delivered today.

Airbus A380 -861 220 A6-EUH Emirates delivery 08nov16 XFW-DXB ex F-WWAD


MSN 220, EK's 86th A380, delivery flight to DXB:

Image
A380-861, Emirates, F-WWAD, A6-EUH (MSN 220) by Mathias Düber, on Flickr
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:16 pm

Looking at the changes with EP3, they seem very similar to those incorporated with EP2 so I would expect a similar 0.5-0.8% reduction in SFC.
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Mon Nov 21, 2016 9:56 am

A nice aerial view of Qatar's latest 2 A380s:

Image
Qatar-380s by Mike Burdett, on Flickr
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AirlineCritic
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:43 pm

KarelXWB wrote:


Nice shot! But an A380 with smokestacks! Now I understand better that RR has some work to do with the engines :-D
 
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Tue Nov 22, 2016 9:33 am

MSN 240 EK #101 completed fuselage join and was moved to the next phase of assembly.

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Msn240 21/11/2016 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Thu Nov 24, 2016 2:12 pm

Regarding the RR engine issue:

The Trent 900, we understand, in its current form could suffer more wear and tear. The engine’s HP compressor blades need a more robust coating. There is a fix coming, but it does not look like this will be available by December 2.

The implication of this is that Emirates Trent-powered A380s are potentially going to spend more time in the shop. The GP engine delivers 3,500 cycles before its first shop visit. We understand that, internally at Emirates, there is an expectation that the current Trent 900 might need a shop visit every 800 cycles. That is a big difference and very expensive.

Perhaps this is why Sir Tim is concerned. The cost of a shop visit until Rolls-Royce gets the fix done is something the engine maker will have to cover with its TotalCare contract. Taking an A380 out of service to get engines replaced is not only expensive – it is highly disruptive to schedules that are based on a plan at 3,500 flights between shop visits.


http://airinsight.com/2016/11/23/emirat ... lls-royce/
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:00 pm

I am guessing this is something RR has found in testing? Or QF has been seeing increased wear with their A380 ops into and out of DXB with EP and EP2 versions of the engine?
 
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:03 pm

I have no clue, but AFAIK the Trent 900 EP3 never visited DXB.
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Stitch
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:23 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
I have no clue, but AFAIK the Trent 900 EP3 never visited DXB.


Well you don't need to go to DXB to find sand. :)

Seriously, RR knows there is an issue so they must have determined it either in testing in other sandy environments (or maybe they just throw sand into the engine on the test stand) or they're seeing wear data from QF (and BA?) on earlier Trent 900 models operating in DXB and the EP3 is using the same materials and when they calculate what that wear would be for an engine that spends more time in DXB, they're getting that projected overhaul number.
 
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:36 am

MSN 234 EK #97 emerged from final assembly.

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Roll out msn234 F-WWAN 24/11/2016 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Mon Nov 28, 2016 4:33 pm

MSN 193 QR #7 performed an engine test today, ahead of its delivery next month.

Image
Airbus A380 Qatar Airways A7-APG by Jujug Spotting, on Flickr
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:10 pm

MSN 227 EK #93 emerged from cabin fit at XFW.

Image
A380 Emirates A6-EUO by Tobias Gudat, on Flickr
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WIederling
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Tue Nov 29, 2016 4:52 pm

There was an article in the local newspaper that had Mr. Clark raise expectations of a daily A380 to Hamburg Airport HAM/EDDH
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:59 pm

Airbus delivered its 200th A380 today:

Airbus A380 -861 222 A6-EUJ Emirates delivery 30nov16 XFW-DXB ex F-WWAX


MSN 222 is also the 87th A380 for Emirates.

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A380 Emirates A6-EUJ by Tobias Gudat, on Flickr
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Wed Nov 30, 2016 10:34 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Airbus delivered its 200th A380 today:

Airbus A380 -861 222 A6-EUJ Emirates delivery 30nov16 XFW-DXB ex F-WWAX


MSN 222 is also the 87th A380 for Emirates.

Image
A380 Emirates A6-EUJ by Tobias Gudat, on Flickr

Is there any reason why 222 (A6-EUJ) has skipped past 221 (A6-EUI) in delivery order?

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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:31 am

I have no idea.
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:29 am

MSN 167 (ex-Skymark) got its storage coat removed and is being work on inside the FAL.

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https://www.instagram.com/p/BNdxjMolrEc/
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Thu Dec 01, 2016 9:26 pm

MSN 193 QR #7 performed another check flight today.

Image
Airbus A380 Qatar Airways A7-APG by Jujug Spotting, on Flickr
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Clipper101
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:54 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
Airbus delivered its 200th A380 today:

Airbus A380 -861 222 A6-EUJ Emirates delivery 30nov16 XFW-DXB ex F-WWAX


MSN 222 is also the 87th A380 for Emirates.

Image
A380 Emirates A6-EUJ by Tobias Gudat, on Flickr


This aircraft is stated by The EK Source to have a 426Y plus a crew rest, the earlier crew rest batch had 401Y. Does that mean it is the start of a new batch of crew rest fleet with new configuration raising economy to 426Y? Where did the crew rest go (underfloor belly ULD's containers)? Are these including the revised staircase design AIB has talked about some time ago?
 
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QuarkFly
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:44 pm

Tidbits about A380 and its savior EK in the Economist, both are going through a rough patch: http://www.economist.com/news/business/ ... cast-doubt

Quote: "...31 are to be delivered between now and 2019, with another 25 due to arrive in the 2020s to replace older ones nearing retirement..."

...Hmmm, so they say ;)
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Sat Dec 03, 2016 1:44 pm

MSN 237 EY #10 emerged from final assembly.

Image
Roll out msn237 F-WWAR 2/12/2016 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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KarelXWB
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:47 pm

There is some movement on the RR powered EK A380s. MSN 225 and 226 have completed a taxi test.

It's not clear when EK will take delivery of its first RR powered A380.

Image
Hamburg-Finkenwerder 03.12.2016 by Axel Janssen, on Flickr
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N14AZ
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:53 pm

KarelXWB wrote:
by Axel Janssen, on Flickr

I checked the pictures from XFW today as well and found another amazing shot made by Mr. Jansen:

ImageHamburg-Finkenwerder 03.12.2016 by Axel Janssen, auf Flickr
 
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N14AZ
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Tue Dec 06, 2016 12:06 pm

Another EK A380 has been "delivered" .... ;-)

Image
Source: http://www.fliegerweb.com/de/news/Airli ... rten-16122
 
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metalinyoni
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:00 pm

N14AZ wrote:
KarelXWB wrote:
by Axel Janssen, on Flickr

I checked the pictures from XFW today as well and found another amazing shot made by Mr. Jansen:

ImageHamburg-Finkenwerder 03.12.2016 by Axel Janssen, auf Flickr



Apologies for going slightly off piste here, but is that one ship in the background? The green one?
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Noshow
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Re: Airbus A380 Production/Delivery Thread - Part 24

Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:11 pm

If the A380 would set takeoff power now could the ship be blown sideways sort of too close for comfort to the riverbanks? The thust would be enough to blow away a truck driving behind it.

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