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Miami
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Fri Feb 27, 2015 8:38 pm

RTO for MSN 186.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8626/16661728485_b21ff2e690_b.jpgMsn186 27/2/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8622/16039424854_5f86901309_b.jpgRTO msn186 F-WWAG 27/2/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:56 am

MSN172 EK #59 is being delivered today.

Quote:
Airbus A380 -861 172 A6-EOG Emirates delivery 02mar14 XFW-DXB ex F-WWAX
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
art
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:41 pm

A380 NEO thread is archived so I'll stick this flightglobal article here as info.

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-the-a380-is-a-neo-too-far-409585/
 
TheSonntag
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:53 pm

Quoting art (Reply 202):

Thank you for the article. But I do not really understand the pessimism. You have a plane which is now reaching break even on production costs. You have a risk-sharing partner in RR which might cover most of the development costs. You have a customer committed to 100 more of the type, and by 2024 probably interested in ordering 100 more to replace the earliest frames.

Also airlines like LH, SIA and Turkish might order more by then.

So stopping now would make less sense to me than continuing with the NEO.
 
NAV30
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:55 pm

Some good points in the article, art.

My own feeling is that increasing engine power means that four engines are rapidly becoming 'out-of-date.' Two engines increasingly look like being 'enough' - the B779X looks like being capable of carrying over 400 passengers, at much lower cost per seat than any sort of four-holer?

That already looks like putting the B747 out of business. It seems to be just about certain that it will shortly 'call time' on the A380 as well?
 
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PW100
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:09 pm

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 204):
My own feeling is that increasing engine power means that four engines are rapidly becoming 'out-of-date

Apparently you have not been paying attention. The 77X will have less power than the 77W. 115000 lbs of thrust has been commercially available since 2003. None of the current twins, and none for the foreseeable future will have more power than the 77W.

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 204):
the B779X looks like being capable of carrying over 400 passengers, at much lower cost per seat than any sort of four-holer

I'm sure a 2020 B779X will beat the 2007 A380 on seat mile cost (although I',m not convinced on a 650 seat 2-class A380). I'm also sure that a 2022 A380 NEO will beat a similar seat-density furnished 77X. Never mind a stretched A389NEO. Whether the market is big enough for such investment, is debatable.

Rgds,
PW100
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enzo011
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:00 pm

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 204):
Two engines increasingly look like being 'enough' - the B779X looks like being capable of carrying over 400 passengers, at much lower cost per seat than any sort of four-holer?

When you say over 400 seats, are you talking about the unrealistic Boeing numbers? The current 77W has over 400 seats in 2 class configuration but the 779 might struggle in a 3-class layout to reach 400 seats.
 
NAV30
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Tue Mar 03, 2015 1:35 am

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 206):
the 779 might struggle in a 3-class layout to reach 400 seats.

The fuselage of the 777X will be nine feet longer, enzo011, and wide enough to allow ten-across in 'cattle class' - 400-plus looks very possible.

Also interesting that Emirates have ordered 150 of them? Against only 50 A380s?

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB100014...4052702303985504579203260653033076
 
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MrHMSH
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Tue Mar 03, 2015 2:00 am

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 207):
Also interesting that Emirates have ordered 150 of them? Against only 50 A380s?

Ummmm... EK have 140 A380s on order...
 
TheSonntag
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:47 am

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 210):

This is all off topic though, back to A380 production!

Indeed. One question which was partially covered already - Airbus does take first flights from TLS directly to XFW? So they do RTOs and check all systems, and then first flight goes directly to Cabin outfitting?
 
NAV30
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:08 am

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 210):
This is all off topic though, back to A380 production!

Fair enough, enzso11. Except that all I was basically pointing out was that there now appears to be a clear 'divide' between the two main manufacturers. Airbus is 'sticking with' the A380, whereas Boeing seems to be confident that a 400-plus-seat B777 will be competitive. Twin versus four.......

Interesting times ahead - as so often on A.net..........  Smile

[Edited 2015-03-03 02:13:29]
 
Planesmart
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:19 am

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 212):
Except that all I was basically pointing out was that there now appears to be a clear 'divide' between the two main manufacturers.

Your A380 views are well documented and understood. Surely such diversions can be off limit on a thread focussed on model specific production.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:47 am

Quoting NAV30 (Reply 209):
Not quite, MrHMSH - 58 of those have been delivered and are in service?

Does look as if EK is keen on getting a lot of 777Xs when they enter service - in five or six years? Whether they will keep both types in service through the 2020s is an 'open question' - anything appears to be possible where Emirates are concerned.

The 150 777X are the replacement for the 132 777-300/300ER, 114 in use and 18 still to be delivered (I assume before end of 2017) and 10 777-200LR. 150 frames replacing 142 frames a rather modest expansion. They will be delivered starting in 2020 over 10 or more years.

Emirates has now 59 A380 in use and still 81 on order, 56 of them will be delivered by end of 2017. Emirates will than have 115 A380 in use, most of them rather new. The last 25 frames of the current order are to replacement for older A380, delivery around 2020.

Emirates is talking about the next 100 frame order for the A380. Tim Clark is pushing for the neo.

The open question about, if Emirates will be using A380 after they start receiving the 777X seems to be solely in your mind.

I think the order numbers in the last years have somehow addled the brains of some posters on A.net. A 100 frame order, even a 50 frame order from Emirates would be enough to get the neo out of the starting holes. Quite a few versions of widebodies, also Boeing widebodies, have been started with fewer orders. And quite a few widebodies have seen an advanced version with new engines before the production reached 100 frames.

777-200 88 frames replaced by 777-200ER with new engines
777-300 60 frames replaced by 777-200ER with new engines
747-300 81 frames replaced by 747-400

Others reached above 100 frames but not 200 before being uppgraded.

767-200 128 frames new engine change to ER
767-300 104 frames new engine change to ER
747-100 167 frames new engine change to -100B

Others never reached 100 frames and had no direct upgrade

767-400er 38 frames
777-200LR 59 frames
747SP 45 frames
A340-200 28 frames
A340-500 34 frames
A340-600 97 frames

What is so strange if the A380-800, after a production run of above 250 frames gets a new engine?
Those numbers have been normal in the past decades.
 
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EPA001
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Tue Mar 03, 2015 12:34 pm

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 212):
What is so strange if the A380-800, after a production run of above 250 frames gets a new engine? Those numbers have been normal in the past decades.

Indeed they have. But it is not only the total number of copies build, but also the timeframe within those copies were build.

The current A380-engines are designed and developed roughly between 2000-2004 with first flight on the A380 in 2005. Since the B777-X program is profiting hugely from a totally new engine with technology from the 2015-2020 timeframe it is only logical to have a competing engine of a comparable technology standard on the A380, which has to be a neo of course.

The RR-Advanced is the engine which almost certain will be selected if a neo-version of the A380 is to be launched. And that will keep the A380 very, very competitive to any other large wide-body airliner. But the numbers need to add up before a positive decision can be taken on developing an A380-neo.
 
r2rho
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Tue Mar 03, 2015 4:24 pm

Let's keep this an A380 delivery thread and not A380NEO vs 77X, please. Thanks.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Wed Mar 04, 2015 2:13 pm

MSN202 EK #70 is confirmed on convoy #6.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:08 pm

MSN188 EK #66 roll out.


Roll Out msn188 F-WWAK 4/3/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
BOAC1966
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Wed Mar 04, 2015 4:03 pm

Whilst Qatar sing praises of A350 introduction, richly deserved, I hope their A380 record also of note. Little evidence of any hiccups, consistently ahead of schedule (arrival times)with moderate work rates over first twelve weeks in service. Albeit a much more mature product still commendable.
 
ZKCIF
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Wed Mar 04, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 209):
Indeed. One question which was partially covered already - Airbus does take first flights from TLS directly to XFW? So they do RTOs and check all systems, and then first flight goes directly to Cabin outfitting?

mostly, yes. however, there have been cases (recently about 1 in 7 roughly) when after the first flight the frame returned to TLS
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:07 am

Tim Clark hints that the remaining 50 A380's on order might be powered with RR instead of EA.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...ates-airline-idUSKBN0M10UA20150305
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
TC957
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Mar 05, 2015 10:22 am

So from that article EK would " look at an possible order for 200 A380neo's " to replace the existing fleet.
That will be fascinating to see how they will dispose of those 140 existing frames then !
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Mar 05, 2015 11:29 am

MSN201 EK #69 finished body join and was towed to the next phase of assembly.


Change of station msn201 5/3/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
parapente
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:53 pm

Reply 219 and 220
Thanks Karel for the heads up - and

So from that article EK would " look at an possible order for 200 A380neo's " to replace the existing fleet.
That will be fascinating to see how they will dispose of those 140 existing frames then !

200 changes things abit! Phew there is just no stopping this guy! If true then the NEO is a slam dunk. And RR do get the extra 50 CEO's then they will be well up for it!
I noted he referred to a RR XWB derivative. I got well told off for suggesting this - unless 'the advance' can indeed be viewed as an XWB derivative.

Disposing of existing frames.
No one has suggested it (perhaps because its a bad idea dunno). But soon (2020) they will have the 2 international airports as a home base.It seems to me that their 'center of the World' geographic positioning is just as good for cargo as it is for Pax - no?
If so why cannot these 'old' (well they are not really) frames have a cargo door put in them - it was planned and designed originally anyway.And turn them into giant cargo planes. Granted they wont have the maximum lifting ability of the original 388 cargo plane. But the total weight that 388's can lift has been pushed up and up over the past 10 years. It is a pretty efficient aircraft in that respect - being slightly 'overwinged' becomes a positive advantage in that scenario.
Could Emirates do to the cargo market what they are doing to the pax market?
Imagine having a 100 'Free' 388 cargo planes positioned right at the center of the geographic World.Interesting I would have thought.
 
TC957
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:10 pm

It has been said on here before by those in the know that the pax A380 can't ever be converted to a 380F due to weight limitations on the two floors.
 
parapente
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:21 pm

Reply 223.
But are they right?
Airbus have to my knowledge said nothing on the matter. I will leave them to speak first personally. Other aircraft are built to be pax carriers but get converted to cargo - what is so different about them?
Not suggesting it will be able to carry the densest/heavy loads - not even the origonal 388C was designed to do that (leave that job to the 748).But that is not the only cargo that is carried - in fact that is the minority.

I still say 'watch this space'.But I accept it is speculation at this stage.
 
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N14AZ
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:28 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 223):
It has been said on here before by those in the know that the pax A380 can't ever be converted to a 380F due to weight limitations on the two floors.

Other P2F conversion programmes include the strengthening of the floor beams, IIRC. Why should it be impossible for the A380?
 
Aviaponcho
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:42 pm

I guess there where height clearance problems between the different floors
 
mffoda
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:14 pm

Quoting parapente (Reply 222):
Could Emirates do to the cargo market what they are doing to the pax market?
Imagine having a 100 'Free' 388 cargo planes positioned right at the center of the geographic World.Interesting I would have thought.

Bad idea... Unless, you think Fedex-ing my overnight package from NY to Florida an extra 15 thousand miles by air is cost effective?
 Wow!
harder than woodpecker lips...
 
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EPA001
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Mar 05, 2015 3:38 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 219):
Tim Clark hints that the remaining 50 A380's on order might be powered with RR instead of EA.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/...ates-airline-idUSKBN0M10UA20150305

Very interesting.  .

Quoting TC957 (Reply 220):
So from that article EK would " look at an possible order for 200 A380neo's " to replace the existing fleet.

Dazzling numbers if they can make that work.

Quoting TC957 (Reply 220):
That will be fascinating to see how they will dispose of those 140 existing frames then !

There are many candidates which could make an A380 work, especially if they do not have to pay the full price for a new version. Perhaps even some US-carriers.......  .
 
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HALtheAI
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:10 pm

September 2014
Clark: We'll buy 60-70 NEOs.

Jan 2015
Clark: We'll buy 100 NEOs.

March 2015
Clark: We'll buy 200 NEOs.

I think Airbus needs to stay strong and hold out a little while longer.   
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 229):
I think Airbus needs to stay strong and hold out a little while longer.

It's the 777X all over again. About 1 year before Boeing launched the 777X Clark started talking about 50 aircraft. Then it was 100 aircraft. Eventually he ordered 150 777X jets with another 50 options.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Miami
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:26 pm

Cabin First Flight for MSN177/ Lufthansa D-AIMN is currently under way.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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sassiciai
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 19

Fri Mar 06, 2015 2:54 pm

Quoting parapente (Reply 224):
Not suggesting it will be able to carry the densest/heavy loads - not even the origonal 388C was designed to do that (leave that job to the 748).But that is not the only cargo that is carried - in fact that is the minority.

Existing cargo hold for "cargo"
Top for light stuff - electronics, documents, flowers, .... you get the idea

And then, the main deck for fish! Heck, you could even have manned processing on-board = raw fish uplifted, sushi unloaded! Why waste valuable time when travelling?
 
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Miami
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Fri Mar 06, 2015 3:47 pm

MSN177/D-AIMN, has returned to Hamburg after a 3 hour and 52 minute flight.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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Heavierthanair
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:01 pm

G´day

To quote sassiciai from the last post in the closed thread:

quote:

And then, the main deck for fish!

unquote:

Has anyone considered proposing that plane to Icelandair? I thought they make a living from flying around fish.

Upper floor for selfloading cargo, main deck for fish


Cheers

Peter
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." (Albert Einstein, 1879 - 1955)
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Fri Mar 06, 2015 4:20 pm

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:16 pm

MSN187 EK #65 first and ferry flight to XFW today:


First flight msn187 10/3/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Miami
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:57 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 4):

Here's another pic.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7614/16569592827_4518952a40_b.jpgFerry flight msn187 F-WWAH 10/3/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:02 pm

MSN180 EY #4 ferry flight to XFW today:


Ferry flight msn180 F-WWAZ 11/3/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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EPA001
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Wed Mar 11, 2015 7:37 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):
MSN180 EY #4 ferry flight to XFW today:

Despite the white engines I like that new livery of EY more and more when I see it.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:04 pm

MSN203 EK #71 is confirmed on convoy 7.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:00 am

MSN175 LH #13 was delivered yesterday.

Quote:
Airbus A380 -841 175 D-AIMM Lufthansa delivery 14mar15 XFW-FRA ex F-WWSP
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:22 pm

Tail fin for MSN202 EK #70 arrived in TLS today.


Tail Fin msn202 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

MSN188 EK #66 first engine run today.


First engine run msn188 F-WWAK 16/3/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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EPA001
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:41 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 10):
EK #70

That is halfway on the number of copies of the A380 EK has ordered.  
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:44 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 11):
That is halfway on the number of copies of the A380 EK has ordered.

For now   
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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EPA001
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:45 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 12):
For now

Indeed, for now.      
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:07 pm

MSN189 QR #6 emerged from final assembly today.


Roll Out msn189 F-WWAO 17/3/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Miami
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Wed Mar 18, 2015 10:54 am

Emirates (EDG) just departed Bordeaux after completing door modifications.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:53 am

What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 20

Thu Mar 19, 2015 3:47 pm

MSN188 EK #66 first and ferry flight to XFW today.


Ferry flight msn188 F-WWAK 19/3/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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