A380 Production Thread Part 19

Miami · Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:47 pm

Landing gear for MSN193 being transported.

Landing gear msn193 16/4/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

KarelXWB · Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:26 am

MSN174 EK #60 is being delivered today.

Quote:
Airbus A380 -861 174 A6-EOH Emirates delivery 17apr15 XFW-DXB ex F-WWSH

Miami · Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:40 am

Emirates has chosen Trent 900 engines for their A380s.

http://www.rolls-royce.com/news/pres...gest-ever-order-from-emirates.aspx

r2rho · Fri Apr 17, 2015 12:26 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 70):
Emirates has chosen Trent 900 engines for their A380s.

http://www.rolls-royce.com/news/pres...gest-ever-order-from-emirates.aspx

Wow. So it's confirmed.
Message to EA: enjoy the remaining backlog while you can, then it's RR and RR-powered NEO for the rest. The non-NEO, high single digit improvement that had been talked about for the GP7200 is dead - this effectively kills any incentive EA could have had to significantly improve the engine.

mffoda · Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:17 pm

Here's the interesting part...

" The engine offers the lowest lifetime fuel burn, with the latest version including technology developed for the Trent XWB and Trent 1000 engines."

This explains why they claimed better fuel burn. Using Trent XWB & T1000 tech on the T900.

It would appear there will not be a neo, but an updated T900....

Stitch · Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:22 pm

Quoting mffoda (Reply 72):
It would appear there will not be a neo, but an updated T900....

This refers to the incoming Trent 900 EP2 (Enhanced Performance 2) PIP which will be retrofitted to all existing Trent 900 engines (which are at the EP1 standard) and includes, in part, improved cooling derived from the Trent XWB.

mffoda · Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:25 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 73):
This refers to the incoming Trent 900 EP2 (Enhanced Performance 2) PIP which will be retrofitted to all existing Trent 900 engines (which are at the EP1 standard) and includes, in part, improved cooling derived from the Trent XWB.

OK, what's coming from the T1000?

mjoelnir · Fri Apr 17, 2015 3:41 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 73):
Quoting mffoda (Reply 72):
It would appear there will not be a neo, but an updated T900....

This refers to the incoming Trent 900 EP2 (Enhanced Performance 2) PIP which will be retrofitted to all existing Trent 900 engines (which are at the EP1 standard) and includes, in part, improved cooling derived from the Trent XWB.

As I have understood the Trent 900 EP2 pip was tested in 2013 and is operating since about mid 2014, so it should be old news. It is possible that RR promised EK further upgrades regarding the 50 birds batch.
There are still about 30 frames with EA 7200 engines to be delivered. that brings us to the end of 2016.
It could well be that there is a serious pip for the T900 on the way, but not officially declared yet, but already promised to EK.

By the way the EP2 pip for the T700 should arrive this year.

Both T900 and T700 EP2 are not completely retrofitable.

KarelXWB · Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:20 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 69):
MSN174 EK #60 is being delivered today.

On its way to DXB now http://fr24.com/UAE7380/6071ff7

JerseyFlyer · Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:32 pm

I wonder if the 2 stored ex-Skymark RR A380s may find a home at EK?

KarelXWB · Fri Apr 17, 2015 4:44 pm

MSN200 EK #68 roll out in TLS.

Roll Out msn200 F-WWSV 17/4/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

MSN189 QR #5 roll out in XFW.

A380 Qatar A7-APE by XFW-Spotter, on Flickr

MSN182 EK #62 roll out in XFW.

A380 Emirates A6-EOJ by XFW-Spotter, on Flickr

art · Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 70):
Emirates has chosen Trent 900 engines for their A380s.

I'm rather surprised that the engines for 50 aircraft can cost $9.2 billion including Totalcare. That's $45+ million per engine (assuming EK's A380's will only have 4 engines).

KarelXWB · Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:20 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 78):
MSN189 QR #5 roll out in XFW.

Small correction: the 5th QR A380 is MSN 181 and not MSN 189.

Stitch · Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:46 pm

Quoting art (Reply 79):
I'm rather surprised that the engines for 50 aircraft can cost $9.2 billion including Totalcare. That's $45+ million per engine (assuming EK's A380's will only have 4 engines).

That would be list price.

The actual contract price is probably significantly less.

SR4ever · Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:51 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 77):
I wonder if the 2 stored ex-Skymark RR A380s may find a home at EK?

And perhaps those 20 of Amedeo could be of any appeal to EK?

Revelation · Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:12 pm

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 82):
And perhaps those 20 of Amedeo could be of any appeal to EK?

EK and Amedeo have already done 'slot swaps' as needed/desired:

Emirates To Swap 4 2016 A380 Slots From Amedeo (by someone83 Jan 20 2015 in Civil Aviation)

Given that Amedeo is Airbus's "marketing partner" one can imagine such partnership allows for a lot of flexibility.

goosebayguy · Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:19 pm

Quoting art (Reply 79):
I'm rather surprised that the engines for 50 aircraft can cost $9.2 billion including Totalcare. That's $45+ million per engine (assuming EK's A380's will only have 4 engines).

The price quoted with totalcare would be over the engine lifetime? A total bargain really. Consider the introduction problems with the T1000 on the 787. Lots failed very soon after introduction and were shipped back to Derby from Japan modified and shipped back out to Japan at no cost to the customer. RR took a huge hit not widely reported here but the airlines had no extra costs.

Planesmart · Fri Apr 17, 2015 10:45 pm

Quoting goosebayguy (Reply 84):
The price quoted with totalcare would be over the engine lifetime?

Lifetime costs, including promised/contracted updates, maintenance, spares and insurance.

AirlineCritic · Sat Apr 18, 2015 5:23 am

Quoting planesmart (Reply 85):
Lifetime costs, including promised/contracted updates, maintenance, spares and insurance.

That is a bargain. I should get a few, too

KarelXWB · Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:28 pm

MSN190 EK #67 first flight today.

First flight msn190 F-WWAR 21/4/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

Finn350 · Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:46 pm

Quoting art (Reply 79):
I'm rather surprised that the engines for 50 aircraft can cost $9.2 billion including Totalcare. That's $45+ million per engine (assuming EK's A380's will only have 4 engines).

Quoting Stitch (Reply 81):
That would be list price.

The press release doesn't talk anything about list prices. It appears that the $9.2 billion is the real worth of the deal, and a significant portion of the value is coming from the TotalCare, probably over a 12-year period or something similar per engine.

[Edited 2015-04-21 11:15:55]

Stitch · Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:56 pm

Quoting Finn350 (Reply 88):
The press release doesn't talk anything about list prices. I appears that the $9.2 billion is the real worth of the deal, and a significant portion of the value is coming from the TotalCare, probably over a 12-year period or something similar per engine.

I am still the opinion it is at list prices, otherwise every other Trent 900 customer now knows the maximum price they should pay and Rolls-Royce won't want the Trent 900 customers who are paying more at the moment to know that.

But if it is the contract price, it's a nice chunk of change for RR.

[Edited 2015-04-21 11:02:48]

PacificBeach · Tue Apr 21, 2015 6:11 pm

Quoting American 767 (Thread starter):
Trent 900 customer now knows the maximum price they should pay and Rolls-Royce won't want the Trent 900 customers who are paying more at the moment to know that.

Not necessarily, since they would not be ordering as many as EK did, it kind of becomes a price floor for those ordering less.

Miami · Tue Apr 21, 2015 7:53 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 87):

Close-up

1st flight for the 67th Airbus A380-841 for Emirates - cn 190 F-WWAR -> A6-EOO by Jujug Spotting, on Flickr

KarelXWB · Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:38 am

In addition to the 11-abreast budget economy cabin, here are two more renders: business class with fully flat seats and an economy plus section.

[Edited 2015-04-23 00:52:26]

Miami · Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:45 pm

Flightline as of April 2rd.

A380 flightline by XFW-Spotter, on Flickr

Miami · Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:48 pm

This girl had an engine run yesterday.

Airbus A380-861 Qatar Airways - cn 189 F-WWAO -> A7-APF by Jujug Spotting, on Flickr

EPA001 · Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:47 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 92):
In addition to the 11-abreast budget economy cabin, here are two more renders: business class with fully flat seats and an economy plus section.

Those interiors look very good to me.

KarelXWB · Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:51 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 94):
This girl had an engine run yesterday.

MSN 189 is now on its way to XFW for cabin fit and painting http://fr24.com/AIB01AO/6155507

KarelXWB · Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:49 am

MSN191 EY #5 roll out.

Roll Out msn191 F-WWSA 24/4/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

Miami · Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:56 pm

Ferry Flight for MSN189

Ferry Flight msn189 F-WWAO 24/4/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

Miami · Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:56 pm

MSN 193 has changed station.

Change of station msn193 24/4/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

Miami · Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:58 pm

Ferry flight for MSN179

Landing:

Ferry flight msn179 F-WWAF 24/4/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

Taxiing:

Msn179 24/4/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

fcogafa · Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:45 pm

Flightglobal thinks the UAE engine switch has kicked the NEO into the 'long grass'

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...-takes-pressure-off-airbus-411574/

Revelation · Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:30 pm

Quoting fcogafa (Reply 101):
Flightglobal thinks the UAE engine switch has kicked the NEO into the 'long grass'

I'm not following. Tim Clark said all along that he'd take the full 50 frames CEO or NEO.

speedbored · Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:11 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 102):
I'm not following. Tim Clark said all along that he'd take the full 50 frames CEO or NEO.

True.

And it seems to me that the main reason for the whole 50 being confirmed as ceos is that TC now wants them even sooner than he originally planned, and there is just no way a neo could be ready within the new timeframe.

Personally, I see this engine switch as making a neo more likely, not less.

PM · Sat Apr 25, 2015 7:42 am

Quoting Revelation (Reply 102):
I'm not following. Tim Clark said all along that he'd take the full 50 frames CEO or NEO.

Quoting speedbored (Reply 103):
Personally, I see this engine switch as making a neo more likely, not less.

Let's just say that this move perhaps buys everyone a bit more time.

The neo has to happen. The A380-800 as is isn't selling. Fact.

And, whatever the CFO said in December, it's beyond belief to think of Airbus ending A380 production.

Therefore, they need a "better" A380 and various Trent 900 PIPs surely won't be enough.

That leaves...

The A380neo.

parapente · Sat Apr 25, 2015 8:17 am

re post 104.I agree.I would say the RR order makes it far more likely not less.RR now has the $$ to go on and develop an 'advance' XWB based engine.The XWB was flown and tested on the A380.So they already know exactly how it works and indeed how it is 'hung' on the wing.With the new carbon fan and case, weight will not be an issue either.It's a shoe in IMHO thrust (84k) is just about spot on too.
One would like to think that Airbus could tidy up the wing tip area.Other than loosing any more possible weight I am not sure there is alot more required.

KarelXWB · Sat Apr 25, 2015 9:17 am

Etihad Airways MSN170 A6-APB is being delivered today.

Quote:
Airbus A380 -861 170 A6-APB Etihad Airways delivery 25apr15 XFW-AUH ex F-WWAB

Egerton · Sat Apr 25, 2015 10:12 am

Quoting PM (Reply 104):

Therefore, they need a "better" A380 and various Trent 900 PIPs surely won't be enough.

At risk of going off-thread, my bet is Trent 900-TEN which will be in-expensive and deliver a good benefit, but short of Advance.

[Edited 2015-04-25 03:12:50]

Miami · Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:22 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 106):

Currently en route to AUH.

Revelation · Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:10 pm

Quoting speedbored (Reply 103):
Personally, I see this engine switch as making a neo more likely, not less.

I thought the NEO became likely when TC said he'd take the current order as all CEO and that the 100-200 follow on order was in addition to the 50 already placed instead of the 50 being split 25 CEO / 25 NEO. To me that data point is what kicked the NEO into the "long grass", which indeed is a positive as you say since it gives RR more time to mature more technologies. I personally don't see the RR order placement changing things very much because the switch to RR was under discussion for a very long time and in my mind was already a likely event given EA's lack of interest in developing their product.

starbucks · Mon Apr 27, 2015 8:04 am

F-WWAR is active as AIB380 and will take off at 10:29 CET from Toulouse, the exact time the A380 took off 10 years ago for it's very first flight!

www.fr24.com/AIB380

[Edited 2015-04-27 01:05:17]

AirPacific747 · Mon Apr 27, 2015 10:48 am

Quoting starbucks (Reply 110):
F-WWAR is active as AIB380 and will take off at 10:29 CET from Toulouse, the exact time the A380 took off 10 years ago for it's very first flight!

Cool! I saw it in TLS yesterday along with AY's first A350

Miami · Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:34 pm

"Love since first flight"

Msn190 F-WWAR 27/4/2015 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr

A380 Emirates A6-EOO by XFW-Spotter, on Flickr

HALtheAI · Tue Apr 28, 2015 12:01 pm

Fitting that it's an EK bird, since if there's one airline that loves the whale, it's Emirates.

Revelation · Tue Apr 28, 2015 5:45 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 112):
Emirates A6-EOO by XFW-Spotter, on Flickr

The sideways heart logo looks quite like a lot like a less cheerful a.net icon:

!

flyAUA · Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:27 pm

Quoting PM (Reply 104):
et's just say that this move perhaps buys everyone a bit more time.

The neo has to happen. The A380-800 as is isn't selling. Fact.

And, whatever the CFO said in December, it's beyond belief to think of Airbus ending A380 production.

Therefore, they need a "better" A380 and various Trent 900 PIPs surely won't be enough.

That leaves...

The A380neo.

Today I was wondering what an A380-800 successor would be named, and what form it would take. Is it extremely unlikely that the next version will be a NEO & a stretch, at the same time? I wouldn't rule out an A380-900 with updated engines and tweaked aerodynamics/wings. Or am I just dreaming? What do you guys think?

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 92):

That premium economy cabin is just cloudnine

Would fly this any day!

[Edited 2015-04-28 12:29:07]

HALtheAI · Tue Apr 28, 2015 7:45 pm

From the WSJ:

Quote:
Mr. Leahy said some airlines are showing interest in a stretched version that could seat far more passengers.

Why would Leahy even mention that to the reporter? Any such demand would remain purely hypothetical. Unless...

KarelXWB · Wed Apr 29, 2015 7:45 am

MSN179 OZ #3 completed its first (and last?) customer flight earlier this week. The aircraft is currently parked at the TLS delivery center.

A380 ASIANA HL7634 by jleroch, on Flickr

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