|Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 92):|
I guess forumers then have a choice: Trust Bjorn/Ferpe at Leeham or trust you.
True. But at least I am clear about that my information is only opinion, or based on what I have seen or heard, rather than presenting it as hard fact as some outsiders do. What I find particularly odd is that you seem to accept anything presented by Leeham as hard fact. If you bother to look at how they arrive at their numbers, you will find that there is a lot of conjecture in many of their figures, as this is very closely guarded information. Educated and informed conjecture, yes, but conjecture nonetheless, as I am sure they would be happy to admit.
|Quoting Revelation (Reply 93):|
Yet we don't even have such a choice because he offers no data, only 'I know but I can't tell you'.
Good luck with finding anyone who would be prepared to disclose such very sensitive commercial information.
But who cares anyway? Too many people get far too obsessed with meaningless numbers like this. "Discount from list" is another of those numbers that is really only of use for an argument on a.net.
Take an example - airlines X and Y both order an aircraft with a list of $100m, with a parts/maintenance/support package valued at $20m. Airline X negotiates a price of $50m for the aircraft and agrees to pay full price for support. Airline Y negotiates a price of $60m with support included. Airline X got their aircraft at a discount of 50% off list while airline Y only got 40% off. But who got the better deal?
As Planesmart has already pointed out a number of times, almost every sales contract is different, and what is "included in the price" varies enormously. Does anyone here even know what is included in a "list price" aircraft?
Contract price negotiations these days tend to concentrate on the whole picture and will include many of the ancilliaries such as spares, maintenance, support, training, performance guarantees, etc. etc. Rarely, if ever, do negotiations focus on a "discount from list price".
Bear in mind that different airlines will prefer to negotiate different splits between capital expenditure and operating expenditure on each contract to maximise their tax and cashflow benefits. That preferred split will also vary from contract to contract within a single airline depending upon how they intend to finance each purchase.
|Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 92):|
Are you still insisting that Airbus does NOT sell the A380 rather cheaply due to lack of demand, or have you given up on that long-held view? Your earlier comment implies that you still think this is true.
How can I "still be insisting" something that I have never claimed. My earlier comment implies nothing of the sort. Yet again, you seek to discredit anyone who dares to point out the errors in your posts, this time by trying to put words into my mouth. Give it a rest.
If you do believe that Airbus is "selling A380s rather cheaply" (which I find hard to understand given the fact, as you regularly enjoy pointing out, that they are not selling any at all at the moment), then please do present your evidence of this.
[Edited 2016-01-03 01:59:39]