SR4ever
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:05 am

If EK does not wanna move to DWC earlier than 2025, then Dubai should find incentives for other airlines to relocate there, especially those carriers not interested in serving both DXB and AUH...

I am pretty sure that we will see EK ordering more 388s in a nio so distant future, with RR engines.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:27 am

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 139):
Do you have anything newer?

At the end of 2017 there will be only 26 left of the last 50 frames order. Both in 2016 and 2017 EK will receive 21 frames.
There is no indication of EK not receiving any A380 in 2018 and 2019. Before or at the beginning of 2020 Airbus will have finished deliveries of the current order.
If EK wants to replace frames coming of leasing, they have to put in the next order.

We can talk endlessly about some article here and there, but counting advertised deliveries seems to me the easiest way to follow the numbers. The fact is deliveries of A380 to EK have been accelerated. For 2016 and 2017 expected deliveries increased from 17 to 21 frames.

As long EK can not move operation to DWC they will sit on the regional order. If you are restricted in the number of movements you can only increase passenger numbers by increasing the size of the frames you use.

[Edited 2016-01-14 04:15:34]
 
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N14AZ
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:25 pm

Hmmmm, not long ago, Airbus said they need about 30 units per year to break-even production-wise. Now 20 is sufficient. Is it just me, but doesn’t this have a smell of arbitrariness or of „innovative accounting“?

Maybe they now consider the gravity that helps production and they need less cranes or maybe climate change will increase the efficiency of the production?

But seriously, what has changed in the meantime? Yes, they can split cost between the A380-production and the NEO-production but I am sure this doesn’t explain the difference between 20 and 30, which is a huge difference.
 
WIederling
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:37 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 142):

Airbus said that they are "working on reducing fixed cost to get down to .."
and not down to 20 either.
20 is a PAREd down ( as in "poster arbitrary rounding error") value.

someone else noted that poster happiness can only come in the form of a A380 project cancelation.

.. and all rejoiced.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:40 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 142):

Hmmmm, not long ago, Airbus said they need about 30 units per year to break-even production-wise. Now 20 is sufficient. Is it just me, but doesn’t this have a smell of arbitrariness or of „innovative accounting“?

Does it really matter?

They have said they are comfortable producing 20+ per year until they are in a position to go for a neo or cease production.

That seems eminently reasonable to me. If there is a cash loss, that is the cost of the potential opportunity to neo in a few years time. A sound strategy in my view.
 
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N14AZ
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 12:50 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 144):
Does it really matter?

They have said they are comfortable producing 20+ per year until they are in a position to go for a neo or cease production.

That seems eminently reasonable to me. If there is a cash loss, that is the cost of the potential opportunity to neo in a few years time. A sound strategy in my view.

Yes, I agree with you, this would be a sound strategy in my view as well. And the way you put it sounds much better than how Airbus is trying to sell it right now. But this is just my opinion-

Airbus once stopped to discuss the break-even-point for the A380-programme in public. Maybe they should do the same for the break-even-point for production as well.

Quoting WIederling (Reply 143):
someone else noted that poster happiness can only come in the form of a A380 project cancelation.

.. and all rejoiced.

Hmmm, not sure how I should read this.

[Edited 2016-01-14 05:12:33]
 
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Revelation
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 2:49 pm

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 142):
Hmmmm, not long ago, Airbus said they need about 30 units per year to break-even production-wise. Now 20 is sufficient. Is it just me, but doesn’t this have a smell of arbitrariness or of „innovative accounting“?

I don't think they say they needed 30/year for break even, they said they would break even when they got to 30/year given the state of their production at the time. Now they're saying two or more years in advance that they can break even near 20/year and I presume they've been looking into this for at least 6-12 months, once it became clear that NEO wasn't happening any time soon and orders hadn't come in for 2 straight years.

Makes perfect sense to me. They don't really have any other choices, do they?

Quoting WIederling (Reply 143):
Airbus said that they are "working on reducing fixed cost to get down to .."
and not down to 20 either.
20 is a PAREd down ( as in "poster arbitrary rounding error") value.

I agree but I caught grief for saying so...

In my mind it's not a firm statement of fact it's an uncommitted statement of intent i.e. a goal not a promise. Having said that, I think it's a proper and logical goal.
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r2rho
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:19 pm

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 127):
Umm, more like 90.

None of the following will get delivered:

100, give or take a few. I still believe that some of those on your list will happen  
Quoting speedbored (Reply 130):
I don't see why people are interpreting the "get production break-even to just above 20" comment as "we will reduce the production rate to 20"

It is based on the following assumptions:
- no new huge order, just some top ups
- NEO will happen in 2024-25, so Airbus needs to bridge the gap and stretch out production as far as possible
-> hence, Airbus will produce as few as possible to still break even

Of course, they are assumptions, and call always be proven wrong. We will have to follow these production threads  
Quoting N14AZ (Reply 142):
not long ago, Airbus said they need about 30 units per year to break-even production-wise. Now 20 is sufficient. Is it just me, but doesn’t this have a smell of arbitrariness or of „innovative accounting“?

We aren't there yet, it sounds like it will take another 2 years to achieve that "close to 20" figure. Boeing is going down to as little as around 1 per month on the 748 IIRC, without losing money. But I agree that breaking even at 20 would be a huge step.... maybe some infrastructure will have been amortized in the next years, or some other big thing that can be written off in the books.
 
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PM
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 4:58 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 138):
Yesterday MSN 210 EK #78 was ferried to XFW for cabin fit and painting.

The last of the A6-EOx series.
 
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Matt6461
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 6:48 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 123):
Just like this year EK will most likely take 21 frames.

Do you have any indication that EK plans to do this? Everything we've heard from Airbus says production will decline in 2017 to low-20's.

Quoting r2rho (Reply 124):
The reliable A380 backlog is about 130.

Come on...

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 139):
Which is why I've suggested in the past that EK should forego their 'regional' 787/A350 order in place of more A380s. With limited room at DXB, EK has to learn to prioritize.

Interesting idea. But EK has stated it wants to serve new destinations. Presumably even EK can't serve every destination with A380's and/or 77W's. If they want to add destinations like SUB, Malacca, Georgetown, Medan, as well as continue serving some of their smaller African destinations like Conakry, they need something other than A380's and 77W's.
 
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BobMUC
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:17 pm

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 149):
Do you have any indication that EK plans to do this? Everything we've heard from Airbus says production will decline in 2017 to low-20's.

At least Sir Tim Clark has confirmed 20 A380s to be delivered in 2016:

"With 20 new A380s to arrive next year, ..."

http://www.arabianbusiness.com/sir-t...ns-of-slowdown-in-2016-617587.html
 
mjoelnir
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 7:25 pm

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 149):
Interesting idea. But EK has stated it wants to serve new destinations. Presumably even EK can't serve every destination with A380's and/or 77W's. If they want to add destinations like SUB, Malacca, Georgetown, Medan, as well as continue serving some of their smaller African destinations like Conakry, they need something other than A380's and 77W's.

But as it is EK has only A380 and 777 on order.
 
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Matt6461
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:03 pm

Quoting BobMUC (Reply 150):
At least Sir Tim Clark has confirmed 20 A380s to be delivered in 2016:

Right. But what about 2017? Given that Airbus guidance is for low-20's production in 2017, I can't see why/how a.netters can think that production will be 27 again in 2017.

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 151):
But as it is EK has only A380 and 777 on order.

But they very publicly plan to place a large order for "regional" widebodies of 78X/A359 size. It's even acknowledged in the post to which I responded.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:06 pm

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 152):
But what about 2017? Given that Airbus guidance is for low-20's production in 2017

As mentioned by Brégier, deliveries will stay similar in 2017. I'd imagine low-20s is for 2018.

[Edited 2016-01-14 12:21:31]
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speedbored
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:17 pm

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 149):
Everything we've heard from Airbus says production will decline in 2017 to low-20's.

Maybe you need to take the hater-headphones off.

What Airbus actually said, just 2 days ago, was that they broke even at 27 last year and that production will remain flat for 2016 and 2017 (i.e. around 27). They made no comment about production rates beyond that.

Just because they said that they are working to further reduce the break-even point to slightly above 20, does not automatically mean that they are also going to reduce the production rate to that same level. Why would they reduce the rate back down to break-even when they still have sufficient orders to maintain a higher rate? Or do you seriously believe that they do not want to start making a production profit?
 
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Matt6461
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:23 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 153):
As mentioned by Brégier, deliveries will stay similar in 2017. Low-20s is for 2018.

Having reread, I stand mostly corrected. Bregier says breakeven will decrease to low-20's but doesn't say production numbers will match breakeven - that was my misreading. Production for 2016-17 will "similar to" 2015's 27. "Similar to" doesn't necessarily mean 27, but should probably be read as closer to 27 than low-20's. Still, assuming that EK will take 21 in 2017 isn't assured unless we see some confirmation of those plans.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSP6N12M0BS20160112

Convincing EK to take more of its frames earlier to maintain to profitable production... That seems like the best end game for the production line unless new orders come in soon. Seems like Airbus could perhaps make some meaningful profit in 2017 off the A380 line.
 
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Matt6461
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 8:28 pm

Quoting speedbored (Reply 154):


Jinx! See unlike you, I have no problem at all admitting when I'm wrong.

Now, are you going to acknowledge that JL contradicted what you've been saying in multiple threads? I.e. that the A380's low sales price reflects its lack of demand?
 
SR4ever
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:24 pm

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 149):
But EK has stated it wants to serve new destinations. Presumably even EK can't serve every destination with A380's and/or 77W's. If they want to add destinations like SUB, Malacca, Georgetown, Medan,

Maybe, but when? It now seems that EK s network has reached some maturity, and that existing routes will be upgauged and get frequency increases, rather than a massive route expansion...

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 152):
But they very publicly plan to place a large order for "regional" widebodies of 78X/A359 size.

Fair enough, but when??? If EK were now to place a massive order for 78Xs/359s, when would EIS come? In view of the current order books at Toulouse and Everett, it s unlikely to happen earlier than 2020, if not 2021.

Till then, we could see more 388s on order, as part replacement of older 77Ws.
 
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Matt6461
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:36 pm

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 157):
Till then, we could see more 388s on order, as part replacement of older 77Ws.

We could, I'm not disputing that it's a possibility. I was merely disputing that EK has publicly announced intent to take 21 A380's in 2017. I still haven't seen confirmation of this intent. Some of the current production guidance from Bregier could include Amedeo slots - they last bumped deliveries back to 2017 and I haven't heard another deferral since then. It's possible that EK will bail out the program again but not certain until we have public confirmation.

It is possible that EK will find less use for A380's than it currently foresees. They just withdrew it from DFW, for example, after experiencing ~55% load factors. It just doesn't seem certain that EK can profitably move from 72 A380's now to 114 two years from now. I'm not betting against them, just saying we don't know for certain they'll take 21 A380's in 2017.
 
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HALtheAI
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 10:51 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 136):

I thought I read STC's concern with DXB wasn't necessarily slots, it was places to put all those A380s and 777s on the ground both on-gate and off-gate.

Indeed. They seem to be taking steps to alleviate runway congestion issues already:

http://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2015-dubai-a380-vortex/

http://www.thenational.ae/business/a...uture-of-dubai-airports-chief-says

Quote:
Dubai International is also studying ways to reduce the take-off time between A380 aircraft, which makes up the majority of Emirates’ fleet. “We are running trials to selectively reduce the separation for the A380 down from five miles to three miles in certain combinations under certain conditions,” said Mr Griffiths.


Quoting SR4ever (Reply 140):
If EK does not wanna move to DWC earlier than 2025,

EK desperately wants to move into DWC ASAP, it's just that Sir Timmy doesn't believe it'll be ready until 2025. The completion date for DWC has been repeatedly pushed back by a lack of money to finish construction in a timely manner.

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 149):
Interesting idea. But EK has stated it wants to serve new destinations. Presumably even EK can't serve every destination with A380's and/or 77W's. If they want to add destinations like SUB, Malacca, Georgetown, Medan, as well as continue serving some of their smaller African destinations like Conakry, they need something other than A380's and 77W's.

If they're going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel with destinations like PTY, EK might be better served switching from double daily A380s on routes like MUC, ZRH, BCN, LAX, etc. to thrice daily instead, what with frequency supposedly being so important to the modern-day traveler.
 
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Matt6461
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:03 pm

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 159):
what with frequency supposedly being so important to the modern-day traveler.

Is this a passive-aggressive pass at something? What are you trying to say, that demand on a route increases one-for-one with frequency? Or that I or someone else have previously so claimed?
 
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HALtheAI
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Thu Jan 14, 2016 11:12 pm

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 160):

Not specifically aimed at you. Just seen quite a few arguments in the past, especially those in favor of the 787, stating how crucial frequency is. I personally doubt that's really the case on all but a handful of long-haul routes.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:13 am

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 159):
If they're going to be scraping the bottom of the barrel with destinations like PTY, EK might be better served switching from double daily A380s on routes like MUC, ZRH, BCN, LAX, etc. to thrice daily instead, what with frequency supposedly being so important to the modern-day traveler.

Or they could forget about frequency and move to more A380. Regarding starts and landing, they can take the A380 in batches, a row of A380 following other A380 do not need the extended wake seperation.
Take a batch of A380, than a batch of smaller frames and than a batch of A380 again. Less problems with needed separation.
 
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speedbored
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:53 am

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 156):
I have no problem at all admitting when I'm wrong

... but only when you are so glaring obviously wrong that you have made yourself look foolish. On the hundreds of other occasions that people (and, no, I do not mean me) point out the errors in what you post, you simply ignore them, obfuscate, change the argument, or resort to personal attacks.

I, on the other hand, try to spend some time checking my facts before posting them, no matter how sure I am, and always try to make it clear when I am expressing an opinion, rather than posting my assumptions as opinions as though they are fact, as you do.

It really is time for you to give the goading and personal attacks a rest - I presume that you are trying to elicit some sort of a reaction from me in the hope of earning me a ban. You will not succeed - such attacks really don't bother me unless they come from someone that I have at least a modicum of respect for. I suspect that you are only succeeding in annoying all of the other forum members.

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 156):
Now, are you going to acknowledge that JL contradicted what you've been saying in multiple threads

No. Why would I? He did nothing of the sort, because I didn't claim anything. I simply asked you to provide some evidence to back up what you were claiming - only in your mind is that the same as claiming the opposite to what you posted.
 
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Matt6461
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:00 am

Quoting HALtheAI (Reply 161):
Just seen quite a few arguments in the past, especially those in favor of the 787, stating how crucial frequency is. I personally doubt that's really the case on all but a handful of long-haul routes.

Ok. Well we disagree on that point, I'm sure we've discussed it elsewhere, and of course this isn't the thread for the discussion. Cheers.

Quoting speedbored (Reply 163):
I presume that you are trying to elicit some sort of a reaction from me in the hope of earning me a ban.

Or maybe I just find your posts to contain some pretty bad ideas and behavior.

Quoting speedbored (Reply 163):
such attacks really don't bother me

MmK. Glad you're not bothered, otherwise I'd be reading more posts demonstrating how bothered you are.

Quoting speedbored (Reply 163):
I simply asked you to provide some evidence to back up what you were claiming

Above and in the other thread.
 
TheSonntag
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:18 am

Could you please stop it? I am certainly no mod, but the constant writing on the same issues in an A380 production thread is simply annoying.
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 8:52 am

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 158):
I still haven't seen confirmation of this intent.

You'll have to wait another 10 months or so, EK usually confirms their next fleet plans at the end of the year.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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speedbored
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 9:52 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 166):
You'll have to wait another 10 months or so, EK usually confirms their next fleet plans at the end of the year.

But do we really need to wait? I'm pretty sure that Airbus would not have said what they said about 2017 production unless they were confident that they already had it sorted out. Fabrice is pretty cautious with his announcements.
 
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JerseyFlyer
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 12:12 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 125):
Four more to go until the first RR powered EK A380 arrives.

Do we yet know anything about the scope of expected improvements to the T900 for Emirates' RR 380s?
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:51 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 168):
Do we yet know anything about the scope of expected improvements to the T900 for Emirates' RR 380s?

Per Rolls, the Trent900EP2 uses XWB technology to modulate the tip clearances within the turbine casings to optimize cooling. The low-pressure turbine is also better sealed and the intermediate-pressure turbine compressor has been further optimized. Total SFC reduction is said to be between 0.5 and 0.8 percent.
 
WIederling
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 3:57 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 169):

IMU the swap to RR was decided on a 4+% SFC ( over EP1 or EP2 levels ? no idea ) improvement.
i.e. Rolls will have to do an EP "dressed tot he nines" 9 PIP for these future deliveries.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:01 pm

Trent900EP2 was introduced last year and I'm not aware of any other developments.

[Edited 2016-01-15 08:04:48]
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:06 pm

Quoting WIederling (Reply 170):
IMU the swap to RR was decided on a 4+% SFC ( over EP1 or EP2 levels ? no idea ) improvement.

i.e. Rolls will have to do an EP "dressed tot he nines" 9 PIP for these future deliveries.

Assuming the Trent 900EP saw similar improvements as the Trent 700EP did (~1.3%), with EP2 the Trent 900's SFC should be around 2% lower than baseline. So RR might only need to come up with another 2-3% over the next decade, which I think should be doable as they continue technology transfers from the XWB and 1000-TEN.
 
WIederling
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 4:31 pm

looked around. nothing tangible on what won RR that batch of engines.
Murphy is an optimist
 
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Stitch
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:17 pm

Quoting WIederling (Reply 173):
looked around. nothing tangible on what won RR that batch of engines.

It's assumed it was a package TotalCare deal with the Trent 900 and either Trent XWB or Trent 1000 (depending on whether the A350 or the 787 wins the medium-haul RFP this year). Engine Alliance doesn't power either frame and GE only powers the 787, so RR would have been able to make the better overall deal.
 
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Matt6461
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:53 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 166):
You'll have to wait another 10 months or so, EK usually confirms their next fleet plans at the end of the year.

Ok. But it still seems premature to say Airbus will build exactly 27 A380's in 2017. The planned range around 27 encompasses whatever "similar" to 27 means. 27? 26? 25? 24? 23?

23 and 24 seem low for "similar," but who knows.
 
col
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:09 am

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 175):
Ok. But it still seems premature to say Airbus will build exactly 27 A380's in 2017. The planned range around 27 encompasses whatever "similar" to 27 means. 27? 26? 25? 24? 23?

23 and 24 seem low for "similar," but who knows.

Haven't you said this before, over and over and over and over and over again. You seem like a glass half empty guy, cheer up, get positive.

By the way, you forgot to mention that EK will start to use/expand 380's to TPE, BCN, BHX, PER, PRG, IAD, LAX and even my very own KUL gets it back. This is more glass half full than just commenting on DFW demise. Anyway, looks like 380 back on DFW in Sept, so I am sure you will be happy to see this expansion  
 
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:06 am

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 175):
Ok. But it still seems premature to say Airbus will build exactly 27 A380's in 2017. The planned range around 27 encompasses whatever "similar" to 27 means. 27? 26? 25? 24? 23?

You really are a "glass half empty" kinda guy, aren't you? Why not see a possible upside, it could just as easily mean 27, 28, 29 or 30.

Gemuser
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7BOEING7
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Sat Jan 16, 2016 7:48 am

Quoting gemuser (Reply 177):
Why not see a possible upside, it could just as easily mean 27, 28, 29 or 30.

It could if they weren't talking about how low they could go and still breakeven or if they actually had some orders coming in.
 
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enzo011
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Sat Jan 16, 2016 9:14 am

Quoting 7BOEING7 (Reply 178):
It could if they weren't talking about how low they could go and still breakeven or if they actually had some orders coming in.

Wait...so the discussions on here on whether the A380 will break even on production of 30 per year and people posting that it will be difficult to do it (not even considering lowering that number), confirmation that it can be done is also a negative? And people wonder why some are defensive when the A380 it posted about. Any talk regarding the A380 will be taken into a negative direction and run with with a few posters....seems like a guarantee on this site.
 
Egerton
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Sat Jan 16, 2016 10:59 am

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 179):
Any talk regarding the A380 will be taken into a negative direction and run with with a few posters....seems like a guarantee on this site.

Agreed. May I add a wider point? Almost any thread on a.net is easily exploited by a small minority whose interests and calling seem different from the majority. It spoils things for the majority. This 'A380 Production' thread should be used for the purpose named in its title. Is this too difficult for the minority? End of lecture.
 
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:17 pm

Quoting enzo011 (Reply 179):
Any talk regarding the A380 will be taken into a negative direction and run with with a few posters....seems like a guarantee on this site.

Yes, there are A380 pessimists here AS WELL AS A380 optimists. The ones who seem to express their annoyances the most instead of furthering the discussion are the optimists, IMHO.

Quoting Egerton (Reply 180):
This 'A380 Production' thread should be used for the purpose named in its title.

This has been a discussion of A380 production...... Sorry it annoys you so.....
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:36 pm

Quoting Revelation (Reply 181):
This has been a discussion of A380 production...... Sorry it annoys you so.....

In my language, 'A380 Production Thread' means discussion on how the manufacturing process and assembly line is working. Full stop.

It is a narrow thread title. If folk wish to discuss other aspects of the A380 that is fine by me, but not on this thread.

I hope this helps.
 
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:18 pm

Quoting Egerton (Reply 182):
In my language, 'A380 Production Thread' means discussion on how the manufacturing process and assembly line is working. Full stop.

You could always start an 'A380 (non-production) news and discussion' thread to cover everything except A380 production.
 
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Sat Jan 16, 2016 5:41 pm

Quoting Egerton (Reply 182):
In my language, 'A380 Production Thread' means discussion on how the manufacturing process and assembly line is working. Full stop.

It is a narrow thread title. If folk wish to discuss other aspects of the A380 that is fine by me, but not on this thread.

The discussion of production break even rate was brought up by a valued member who is also a moderator in reply 110 above four days ago.

I hope this helps.
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Sat Jan 16, 2016 6:15 pm

Quoting art (Reply 183):
You could always start an 'A380 (non-production) news and discussion' thread to cover everything except A380 production.

Thanks, such a thread which would be insufficiently narrow for me to consider participating in, still less opening.
I tend to read threads which are narrowly drawn and only if I am interested in their topic.

I do not have the luxury of time to participate in every a.net thread, sadly I have to be very selective.
Threads which use an inordinate amount of space in repeating ad nauseam the same old tired basic message bore me, and eventually irritate me.

Clausewitz’s famous dictum was: “War is regarded as nothing but the continuation of politics by other means".
This dictum was turned around by Foucault into “politics is war continued by other means”

Discussion is not politics, discussion is not war by other means.

If we are having a discussion (debate? exploration? analysis? exchange of views?) then this should exclude the need for winners or losers.

Discussion works best by the use of short interchanges, with as little repetition as possible. An ideal narrow discussion thread would be one which could be read from the first point through to the last point, cohesively. I accept this is not going to happen often in the real world of a.net.

A good discussion often results in common ground (consensus) being reached (without a chairman!).
A rare event on a.net!

As I am far from perfect, it is not my place to suggest that people do as I do, or even do as I say. That is the task of Moderators.

Sorry if this bores folk.

[Edited 2016-01-16 10:17:15]
 
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:29 am

Quoting SR4ever (Reply 157):
Fair enough, but when??? If EK were now to place a massive order for 78Xs/359s, when would EIS come? In view of the current order books at Toulouse and Everett, it s unlikely to happen earlier than 2020, if not 2021.

The 78Xs/A359s are probably not going to arrive before EK moves to DWC in 2025.

Quoting Matt6461 (Reply 175):
Ok. But it still seems premature to say Airbus will build exactly 27 A380's in 2017. The planned range around 27 encompasses whatever "similar" to 27 means. 27? 26? 25? 24? 23?

23 and 24 seem low for "similar," but who knows.

From where I stand "similar" in this case would mean 26 or 28 (i.e. one more or less); 23 or 24 ain't nothing like "similar".
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Mon Jan 18, 2016 11:14 am

Last week there was an initial engine run on MSN 211 EK #79.


First engine run msn211 F-WWSY 15/1/2016 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr


Msn211 15/1/2016 by A380_TLS_A350, on Flickr
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:40 am

Here's how an A380 looks on the inside after arriving at XFW from TLS:


ARBS0333 by Martyn Cartledge ASP Photography, on Flickr


Ever wondered what an A380 looks like empty! by Martyn Cartledge ASP Photography, on Flickr


ARBS0324 by Martyn Cartledge ASP Photography, on Flickr
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RE: A380 Production Thread Part 22

Tue Jan 19, 2016 11:17 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 188):
Here's how an A380 looks on the inside after arriving at XFW from TLS:

Do you know which MSN / for which airline?

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