Fixinthe757
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Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:16 pm

N253AY being dismantled at BFM
 
jetsetter629
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:46 pm

While they really are historic aircrafts (some flew for Piedmont), I am happy to see them go! Flying them across the Atlantic is a terrible expirence. Flew round trip on them from PHL to CDG about 3 years ago and my father just flew it to BCN just last week. Would not want to be on that plane when they flew PHL-ATH
 
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CrimsonNL
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:53 pm

How much time is left for the remaining (5?) 762's?

Rgds,

Martijn
Always comparing your flown types list with mine
 
wjcandee
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Wed Dec 03, 2014 2:55 pm

Quoting jetsetter629 (Reply 1):
Flying them across the Atlantic is a terrible expirence.

Because... Compared to...
 
bigvince76
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Wed Dec 03, 2014 3:21 pm

Quoting wjcandee (Reply 3):
Because... Compared to...

Cramped seating.
A lot of seats tired or broken.
Dirty seating and toilets.
Old main screen IFE, often not working.
Small overhead bins.
US Airways PHL based cabin crew (ok, you still find them on the A330 but they still suck!)

I just stepped of one of these last week and I really hope it is the one in the picture, and I hope it hurts!
 
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Spacepope
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:10 pm

Only 96,000 hours on her. A spring chicken  
The last of the famous international playboys
 
Fixinthe757
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:13 pm

Quoting bigvince76 (Reply 4):
I just stepped of one of these last week and I really hope it is the one in the picture

There's still hope for you. N248AY here for return to lease. Not sure if it will meet the same fate.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:18 pm

Legacy US was the worst major airline in the US about keeping cabin products up to date. Few improvements were done and those that were done were on the cheap. So these 762s are going out after almost 30 years with their original bins and sidewalls and with seats and furnishings well past their time.
 
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hufftheweevil
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Wed Dec 03, 2014 5:28 pm

Quoting CrimsonNL (Reply 2):
How much time is left for the remaining (5?) 762's?

You are correct, it is five remaining: N249AU, N250AY, N251AY, N252AU, N256AY

They seem to be going rather slow with these retirements. Early November was the last, then early august before that.

Quoting bigvince76 (Reply 4):
I just stepped of one of these last week and I really hope it is the one in the picture, and I hope it hurts!

Sorry, but this bird's LRF was 8/18/14. You flew on one of the 5 still operating as of today.
Huff
 
dalca
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:08 pm

Though they are old I still prefer the B762 over the B752. The 2 aisles are always better than the 1 aisle
Zanair flight, please hold on finals as we have to clear rhino's off the runway. Next flight KUL-FRA-AMS Flown in A319,A
 
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American 767
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:16 am

No offense to Airbus fans, but when speaking of wide body airplanes, I am pro-Boeing. So this being said, I would not hesitate to choose an old 767, or even a 757, over an A330 even if I hear tons of negative comments about the 767 and tons of positive comments about the A330. I have never flown on the A330, never in my whole life, in almost 20 years that it has existed, but it doesn't matter. If I have the choice on a long haul flight for the same price I choose the Boeing plane, even if it's older that its Airbus competitor. When I fly long haul I look after Boeing. That's me.

Happy retirement N253AY. We enjoyed seeing you in the skies.

Ben Soriano
Ben Soriano
 
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hufftheweevil
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:13 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 10):
No offense to Airbus fans, but when speaking of wide body airplanes, I am pro-Boeing. So this being said, I would not hesitate to choose an old 767, or even a 757, over an A330 even if I hear tons of negative comments about the 767 and tons of positive comments about the A330. I have never flown on the A330, never in my whole life, in almost 20 years that it has existed, but it doesn't matter. If I have the choice on a long haul flight for the same price I choose the Boeing plane, even if it's older that its Airbus competitor. When I fly long haul I look after Boeing. That's me.

With no apparent reason to chose one of the other, that decision is quite irrational. The question I have is, can you acknowledge the fact that you are being irrational? If so, carry on. If not, you're in denial.
Huff
 
silentbob
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:19 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):
Legacy US was the worst major airline in the US about keeping cabin products up to date

They were fighting against going out of business for 25 years. Without the HP and now AA mergers, they would have been gone a decade ago.
 
bgm
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:30 am

Quoting hufftheweevil (Reply 11):

Quoting American 767 (Reply 10):
No offense to Airbus fans, but when speaking of wide body airplanes, I am pro-Boeing. So this being said, I would not hesitate to choose an old 767, or even a 757, over an A330 even if I hear tons of negative comments about the 767 and tons of positive comments about the A330. I have never flown on the A330, never in my whole life, in almost 20 years that it has existed, but it doesn't matter. If I have the choice on a long haul flight for the same price I choose the Boeing plane, even if it's older that its Airbus competitor. When I fly long haul I look after Boeing. That's me.

With no apparent reason to chose one of the other, that decision is quite irrational. The question I have is, can you acknowledge the fact that you are being irrational? If so, carry on. If not, you're in denial.

I completely agree, what an incredibly odd thing to do.   I've flown countless times on both Boeing and Airbus longhaul and both are good.
OK boomer.
 
covert
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:39 am

What kind of engines did these have?
none
 
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American 767
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:48 am

Quoting hufftheweevil (Reply 11):
The question I have is, can you acknowledge the fact that you are being irrational? If so, carry on. If not, you're in denial.

OK I'm sorry if I wrote this. But when I say that I like one of the two competitors, I am not talking bad about the other. I will never say anything negative without explaining what it is that I don't like about a product. If I prefer something, I mention it, but I don't talk negative about the other.

Quoting Bgm (Reply 13):
I've flown countless times on both Boeing and Airbus longhaul and both are good.

OK I respect that.

I have nothing against A when I say that I prefer the B product on wide body flights. I prefer the A product on single aisle flights. A few months ago I flew on a US A319 from CLT to LGA and I really liked the airplane. I enjoyed flying on it.
Ben Soriano
 
N415XJ
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:54 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 10):
757, over an A330 even if I hear tons of negative comments about the 767 and tons of positive comments about the A330. I have never flown on the A330, never in my whole life,

You would chose to be stuck in a narrowbody 757 for 8 hours over an A330, despite having never flown on one before? Either you're not entirely serious, take the 'if it aint boeing I aint going' thing way too seriously, or you know something that we don't...
 
phlwok
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:25 am

Last I flew through GSO about 5 weeks ago, there was an ex-US 762 parked in the cargo ramp area north of the passenger terminals - any idea which one it was and its fate? It was not being parted out at the time, just had its US tiles removed. Looked like it might have a cargo conversion in its future.
 
N1120A
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:29 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):

Legacy US was the worst major airline in the US about keeping cabin products up to date. Few improvements were done and those that were done were on the cheap. So these 762s are going out after almost 30 years with their original bins and sidewalls and with seats and furnishings well past their time.

IDK - their product on the A330 has generally been very up-to-date. They were among the first with true AVOD, and their Envoy seat is excellent.

Quoting hufftheweevil (Reply 8):
They seem to be going rather slow with these retirements. Early November was the last, then early august before that.

Well, I think they are using them till they have replacements. Remember that the reconfigured 763ERs are going to replace some of these, with 787s replacing those 763ERs.

Quoting covert (Reply 14):
What kind of engines did these have?

CF6
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
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airportugal310
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:18 am

Quoting covert (Reply 14):

CF6-80A, I believe. The CF6-80A2 was slightly better but not much and powered some non-ER 767-300s. This is my experience only of course and their were all sorts of variations
“They bought their tickets, they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash.”
 
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hufftheweevil
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:32 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 15):
OK I'm sorry if I wrote this. But when I say that I like one of the two competitors, I am not talking bad about the other. I will never say anything negative without explaining what it is that I don't like about a product. If I prefer something, I mention it, but I don't talk negative about the other.
Quoting American 767 (Reply 15):
I have nothing against A when I say that I prefer the B product on wide body flights. I prefer the A product on single aisle flights. A few months ago I flew on a US A319 from CLT to LGA and I really liked the airplane. I enjoyed flying on it.

No reason to apologize. I'm just curious to hear your actual reasons for preferring A for narrowbodies and B for widebodies.
Huff
 
aviatorcraig
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:06 am

Quoting Fixinthe757 (Thread starter):
N253AY being dismantled at BFM

As this aircraft is being dismantled at Brookley Field, Mobile AL it is obvious what is going on here. It is being secretly reverse engineered by Airbus to allow them to gain more knowledge of what the travelling American public expect in a plane:

Quoting American 767 (Reply 10):
So this being said, I would not hesitate to choose an old 767, or even a 757, over an A330 even if I hear tons of negative comments about the 767 and tons of positive comments about the A330. I have never flown on the A330, never in my whole life, in almost 20 years that it has existed

Armed with this secret market info, Airbus hopes to appeal to a whole new market sector of passengers who have never previously set foot on their widebody offerings. Expect two new iterations of their successful A330 to be launched soon - the A330-767 OEOFOCO (Old Engine, Old Fuselage, Old Cabin Option), and the A330-767 CRAPO (Cabin Retro, Airframe Past it Option).



  
707 727 Caravelle Comet Concorde Dash-7 DC-9 DC-10 One-Eleven Trident Tristar Tu-134 VC-10 Viscount plus boring stuff!
 
LHRlocal
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:07 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 10):
I have never flown on the A330, never in my whole life, in almost 20 years that it has existed, but it doesn't matter.
Quoting American 767 (Reply 15):
If I prefer something, I mention it, but I don't talk negative about the other.

Each to their own, but i am curious. How can you prefer one thing over another when you have not experienced both and have no basis to actually compare them?

LHRlocal
 
Archer
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:34 pm

My wife and I flew in N251AY from PHL to ZRH in October. Sure, the IFE is old but
I'd take a 767 anytime over a 757.
Reason - seating.
2X3X2 or 2X4X2 is what I go for. Anytime we have 2 seats on the window - that's the
choice.
Going to Sydney in two weeks. 757 to Honolulu but 330 the rest of the way and back to
HNL. 3 by 3 seating is what I avoid.
Also, I look out the window, carry my own GPS and catch up on my reading. My wife
does like movies but carries a DVD player on most trips.

330 is a great plane for long haul.
 
frostyj
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:01 pm

I honestly think that the 767 is an ugly aircraft.
[url=http://m.maploco.com/details/5f34zxvq][img]http://www.maploco.com/vmap/s/8395334.png[/img][/url]
 
max550
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:06 pm

Quoting dalca (Reply 9):
Though they are old I still prefer the B762 over the B752. The 2 aisles are always better than the 1 aisle

Definitely. It's a great layout, and afaik the only widebody with only one middle seat. I'd take a 762 over a 752 anytime.
 
N1120A
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:21 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 24):
I honestly think that the 767 is an ugly aircraft.

The stubby 762, sure. The 764 is downright elegant.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
maddogjt8d
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:27 pm

Quoting airportugal310 (Reply 19):
CF6-80A, I believe. The CF6-80A2 was slightly better but not much and powered some non-ER 767-300s. This is my experience only of course and their were all sorts of variations

I am pretty sure the 762's were powered by CF6-80C2's. I've flown several CF6-80A powered 762's and 763's, and just got on N248AY about a month ago (5 days prior to retirement no less), and it definitely sounded like the 80C series to me.
 
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DL_Mech
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:20 pm

Quoting maddogjt8d (Reply 27):
I am pretty sure the 762's were powered by CF6-80C2's.

The C2 engines have a longer tailpipe and a larger oil service door. Compare:


-80C2:



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Matteo Stella - Malpensa Spotters Group
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gerhard F. Schmidt





-80A2:



View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Chris Coduto
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Dave Faulkner



[Edited 2014-12-04 08:30:14]
This plane is built to withstand anything... except a bad pilot.
 
Flighty
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:36 pm

They refurbed the interiors of these around 2007. These airplanes were flown well and to plan. Quiet, dual aisle, smooth fliers. The most impressive routes for the US 762 were:

PHL-ATH
CLT-GIG
CLT-HNL

They played a great part in an interesting story.
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:39 pm

Quoting Flighty (Reply 29):
They refurbed the interiors of these around 2007.

As usual with legacy US, the refurb barely existed. It consisted of new seat covers, new bulkhead coverings, and new carpet. It did pretty much nothing to hide the age and outdatedness of the aircraft.
 
Fixinthe757
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:11 pm

Remember they're called INTERIOR mods for a reason, only inside the plane mods. While the majority of us here on a.net like to see the outside of the plane, most of the traveling public only care about the inside. The outside can have a brand new paint job making it look awesome, but underneath that paint it could still be a piece of garbage.   
 
UA444
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:17 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 26):

Never saw the appeal of the 764. Probably because all the liveries it's been in have been ugly or boring, except for the Ron Allen DL colors.
 
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American 767
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:28 pm

Quoting lhrlocal (Reply 22):
How can you prefer one thing over another when you have not experienced both and have no basis to actually compare them?

Just a matter of taste, like colors. I was always attracted to US built widebodies, and the 757, ever since the first 747 existed.

Quoting max550 (Reply 25):
I'd take a 762 over a 752 anytime.

I don't mind flying on a 757 TATL.
Ben Soriano
 
Armodeen
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:56 am

What a shame about the 762s...I booked a specific route (CLT-MCO) in Sept 15 just to fly on one (but not for too long :P) while they cling to existence, only to find that 1 month later it has been canned in favour of a 752 :/
 
bgm
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:27 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 33):
I was always attracted to US built widebodies

If Airbus started building the A330 in the US, would you consider flying it then?
OK boomer.
 
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American 767
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 1:32 am

Quoting Bgm (Reply 35):
If Airbus started building the A330 in the US, would you consider flying it then?

Maybe, if I have no other choice.
Ben Soriano
 
UA444
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:19 am

Quoting American 767 (Reply 33):

What's your take on the 787 then since it has several components that are foreign.
 
cedarjet
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:09 am

What routes are a good bet to fly on a 767-200? Some of my first solo trips abroad as a teenager were to the US on USAir 767s, when they ran three routes out of LGW: CLT, BWI and PHL. Would love to do one more for old times sake. Btw shows the age of these birds — I remember flying on 767 "Edwin Coldney" when I was 19, now I'm 42, and those planes have criss-crossing the Atlantic the whole time, every day.
fly Saha Air 707s daily from Tehran's downtown Mehrabad to Mashhad, Kish Island and Ahwaz
 
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American 767
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:53 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 37):
What's your take on the 787 then since it has several components that are foreign.

I would fly on it, yes, but honestly I would choose a 757 or a 767 over a 787 simply because the time to fly on the 757 or 767 is now or never, the 787 will be around for a long time to come. I always choose which aircraft will leave sooner, over which will leave later. It is one of the reasons why I would choose an MD-80 over a 737 when flying American domestic.

Parts that are foreign on Boeing planes, I don't mind that. Look at the AA757, the engines are made by a UK based company.
Ben Soriano
 
lpdal
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:08 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 7):
Legacy US was the worst major airline in the US about keeping cabin products up to date.

The Envoy Suite was the first widely-adopted business class suite with aisle access and true lie flat (not angled). At the time it was introduced on the A330s, all the other guys in the USA J market were still flying around aircraft with recliners and angle-flats in international business class, of all places. They were really the first USA-based airline to introduce the business class suite.

I'm actually surprised that many here wouldn't fly on a 762? I've been looking to catch one of these US puppies on CLT-MCO, which is where I'm seeing them flying the most domestic routes. Even back in May, where I went out of my way to fly on an Envoy-suite aircraft on PHL-MCO, there were plenty of domestic 762 segments to be had. Alas, now that there is only a handful of these stubby birds remaining, my chances of catching one are dwindling.   

-LPDAL
All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
Flighty
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:56 am

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 40):
They were really the first USA-based airline to introduce the business class suite.

As you know, this was by accident. They were F class seats, but US just quit selling them as F class, turning them into an unofficial super-J class.

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 40):
I'm actually surprised that many here wouldn't fly on a 762?

It is odd. One of the best rides in the sky. Vastly superior to 777s in terms of noise and economy seating (let alone 10Y 777s). They are also a pilot's favorite.

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 30):
As usual with legacy US, the refurb barely existed. It consisted of new seat covers, new bulkhead coverings, and new carpet. It did pretty much nothing to hide the age and outdatedness of the aircraft.

As you know, it also consisted of refurbished lavs, new J class, and new IFE both front and rear, although no PTVs in rear.

[Edited 2014-12-04 20:57:39]
 
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hufftheweevil
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:10 am

Quoting cedarjet (Reply 38):
What routes are a good bet to fly on a 767-200?

Right now, on US Airways, it is the sole equipment for PHL-DUB, CLT-GIG, and CLT-STT. It is also used occasionally for CLT-CUN, CLT-PHL, PHL-CUN, PHL-STT, and PHL-MCO.

Aeromexico may have 2 still operating, not sure what routes.

Air Italy may still be flying their last one.

Then there's Russia, with UTair Aviation and Transaero operating a few, I'm assuming intra-Russia only.

Slim pickings!
Huff
 
USAirALB
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:47 am

IIRC, US had also planned to install bin extenders throughout the aircraft, along with PTVs. This was during the time when US vastly intended to improve their product and install PTVs on all mainline aircraft. The financial crisis ruined those plans.

Remember that these planes were intended for retirement in 2012, but US kept extending their leases because they were able to lease them for next to nothing.
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UA444
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:04 am

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 40):

The first to offer true lie flats in the USA was UA, they were the first airline to introduce their new product during the current generation.
 
tommy767
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:19 am

You know, its crazy to think that from an interior standpoint, American might have had more solid Y interiors than US through retirement. Except AAs in the last 13 years have only flown on transcon routes.

Its understandable the newer US 762 (from 1993) were not kept as a subfleet compared to the Piedmont birds. This airline is driven to have younger planes. Even the 757s are at risk
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
lpdal
Posts: 1965
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:21 am

Quoting UA444 (Reply 44):
The first to offer true lie flats in the USA was UA, they were the first airline to introduce their new product during the current generation.

But this thread is about US, not UA. Re-read my post:

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 40):
The Envoy Suite was the first widely-adopted business class suite with aisle access and true lie flat (not angled). At the time it was introduced on the A330s, all the other guys in the USA J market were still flying around aircraft with recliners and angle-flats in international business class, of all places. They were really the first USA-based airline to introduce the business class suite.

That 8-across business class seat is definitely not a "suite" in any event, and does not compare to Envoy.

Quoting USAirALB (Reply 43):
IIRC, US had also planned to install bin extenders throughout the aircraft, along with PTVs. This was during the time when US vastly intended to improve their product and install PTVs on all mainline aircraft. The financial crisis ruined those plans.

Aww, that's really depressing. I would have loved to see US blossom, but unfortunately 2008 happened? How sad, US is one of my favorite airlines!

As of right now, I'm having real difficulty finding a US 767-200 on PHL-MCO-PHL and CLT-MCO-CLT....I really hope to catch one! All I'm seeing are 332/333s, and 757-200s. Will post here if I find a routing with this beautiful bird on it.

-LPDAL
All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
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hufftheweevil
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RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:32 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 46):
As of right now, I'm having real difficulty finding a US 767-200 on PHL-MCO-PHL and CLT-MCO-CLT....I really hope to catch one! All I'm seeing are 332/333s, and 757-200s. Will post here if I find a routing with this beautiful bird on it.

Even if you find one, I've seen same-day equipment swaps occur if loads are low. So there's little guarantee on a domestic flight.

We can be pretty sure US will have a big finale flight, like they did with the 737-400. I could see a final international flight (perhaps PHL-DUB-PHL), and then a domestic circuit like PHL-CLT-MCO-PHL. Probably US767.
Huff
 
AA767400
Posts: 1894
Joined: Tue Jan 23, 2001 2:04 am

RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:47 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 44):
The first to offer true lie flats in the USA was UA, they were the first airline to introduce their new product during the current generation.

Was it? I thought when US's A332 first came online, it had the first lay flat J seat. Then UA came out with their lie flat 4 across on their 777s. Or are we going by CO's Business First product? Hmm...
"The low fares airline."
 
PI4EVER
Posts: 817
Joined: Wed May 06, 2009 10:29 pm

RE: Ex US Air 767 Going Away

Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:03 pm

US's new A330's were delivered with a full flat F class seat, a bulkhead and then J class. Star or some IATA regulation required a true First Class product on TATL segments and US had this 6 seat 1 row F class cabin installed. At the point of the HP merger the seats were retained and sold as J or used exclusively for Chairman's Preferred upgrades. They were subsequently removed when the fleet was reconfigured to J and Y.
watch what you want. you may get it.

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