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douglasyxz
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LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:19 pm

I think it is worth a separate thread.

'Heute', one of the leading german TV news broadcast reports about LH's future plans with Germanwings and Eurowings. They have been made publict at todays's LH board meeting. Sources are dpa, reuters, afp.

Key facts:
1. The brand Germanwings 4U will disappear in Q3 2015. All planes will be shifted to Eurowings EW. 4U was a success, will be making a profit in 2015, but still too expensive longterm and in comparison to EW.
2. Eurowings will get 23 own A320 in addition to 58 planes from 4U. Those 23 new A320 will gradually replace the CRJ900 by end of 2017.
3. SunExpress Deutschland XG will operate 7 A330 on behalf and in the colors of EW.
4. Headquarters of new EW will be Cologne, due to its suitability for 24-hours operation.
5. Midterm, an Eurowings Holding will be established somewhere in Europe, not necessarily in Germany.
6. Another wings sister, the project currently named 'Jump', will join the club and do long-haul service with up to 14 leased A340. Those aircraft shall be operated by lessors staff at much lower cost than LH can achive. That the A340 will be leased differs a bit from the information that leaked out so far.

Quite a courageous move that will dramatically reduce the presence of LH brand and fleet if it works out as planned.

Link in German only: http://www.heute.de/lufthansa-baut-billigsparte-aus-36196010.html
 
bmibaby737
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:44 pm

Quoting douglasyxz (Thread starter):
1. The brand Germanwings 4U will disappear in Q3 2015. All planes will be shifted to Eurowings EW. 4U was a success, will be making a profit in 2015, but still too expensive longterm and in comparison to EW.

I'm confused, will Germanwings still exist, but their aircraft receive "operated by Eurowings" titles, or will the airline be entirely shut down and the aircraft transferred to Eurowings?
 
Shuttle12T
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:49 pm

I understand it to mean come Q3 of next year Germanwings will be no more, with Eurowings taking over the operation and then some. Personally I think it's a shame, I like the Germanwings brand, and I really like their livery.
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817Dreamliiner
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:52 pm

Quoting douglasyxz (Thread starter):
3. SunExpress Deutschland XG will operate 7 A330 on behalf and in the colors of EW.

And a new livery coming as well:
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SCQ83
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 8:58 pm

Quoting Shuttle12T (Reply 2):
I understand it to mean come Q3 of next year Germanwings will be no more, with Eurowings taking over the operation and then some. Personally I think it's a shame, I like the Germanwings brand, and I really like their livery.

I believe the issue is that they are expanding outside Germany, starting with BSL which will be the first Eurowings. I imagine from a marketing perspective Eurowings is more neutral than Germanwings outside Deutschland.
 
LTH
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:39 pm

Quoting douglasyxz (Thread starter):
Quite a courageous move that will dramatically reduce the presence of LH brand and fleet if it works out as planned.

The shift from Lufthansa to germanwings on all non-hub routes reduced the presence of the LH brand much more than the expansion of Eurowings will do.

btw: Personally I think the new livery is okay, but nothing fancy.


LTH
 
vfw614
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:44 pm

Quoting douglasyxz (Thread starter):
Another wings sister, the project currently named 'Jump', will join the club and do long-haul service with up to 14 leased A340. Those aircraft shall be operated by lessors staff at much lower cost than LH can achive. That the A340 will be leased differs a bit from the information that leaked out so far.

Jump is no airline, but the project name of a new Lufthansa mainline product.
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:47 pm

Are they serious or Kindergarten ? First they introduce for millions of Euro's the Germanwings brand, then spend another millions into marketing the Germanwings as a LH intra Europe carrier and now they kill this brand to roll out Eurowings ?
They should have used Eurowings right from the beginning what a non-sense to use a higher cost unit if you got a lower cost company already in the portfolio.

Also why on earth they will now launch long haul low cost under Sun Express brand when they could use Eurowings for this as well ?

All this restructurings, so many different companies doing the same thing, each of them got their own management, offices etc. this most cost them so much money, I doubt they save anything in the end.

They should better use their cash and buy some Easyjet shares and participate in their growth.
I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
ytz
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:55 pm

What happens to the 319s that 4U operates? Are only the 320s being transferred?
 
ytz
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:56 pm

Quoting delta777jet (Reply 7):
They should have used Eurowings right from the beginning what a non-sense to use a higher cost unit if you got a lower cost company already in the portfolio.

Also why on earth they will now launch long haul low cost under Sun Express brand when they could use Eurowings for this as well ?

New brand equals new agreements with employees. Every time the employees get too expensive, they'll create a new brand and move the airplanes there.
 
lhcvg
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 9:57 pm

Quoting vfw614 (Reply 6):

That's what I thought -- isn't it just putting a small J cabin into old (paid off) 340's for use on leisure routes where LH's premium-heavy config didn't work?
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:00 pm

Quoting ytz (Reply 9):
New brand equals new agreements with employees. Every time the employees get too expensive, they'll create a new brand and move the airplanes there.

Well, I don't buy, that the crewing cost difference between Eurowings and SunExpress will give them such a huge advantage that they make such complicated structures. Each of the structure creates also a lot of admin cost like management positions etc. etc. also TK probably want its share in the business. Why to share the German long haul business with the Turkish ? Is Lufthansa in such bad shape already that they need support from Turkish Airlines how to run the airline ?
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bluesky73
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 10:52 pm

Quoting delta777jet (Reply 7):
Are they serious or Kindergarten ? First they introduce for millions of Euro's the Germanwings brand, then spend another millions into marketing the Germanwings as a LH intra Europe carrier and now they kill this brand to roll out Eurowings ?
They should have used Eurowings right from the beginning what a non-sense to use a higher cost unit if you got a lower cost company already in the portfolio.

Exactly what I thought. complete waste of money and time repainting 4U and LH aircraft last year.
Germanwings livery is much better than the Eurowings new livery pictured earlier in post. Crazy!
 
Rara
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:14 pm

I wouldn't draw any definite conclusion yet. Different media outlets report different things. Let's see whether Germanwings will really disappear as a brand; somehow I don't believe that yet. Let's not forget that the management is trying to construct additional levers in their negociations with the unions. From now on they've got one further threat to make to the unions: don't agree to our demands and we'll shift operations over to Eurowings until you agree.

But it seems clear that LH has great difficulties finding a strategy for the future. They seem to be unable to lower the operational cost within the mainline, but they don't really know what conclusions to draw. I don't see how an additional low-cost longhaul airline will remedy any of LH's profitabilty problems, especially not with a handful of Turkish-operated A330s.
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LondonCity
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:17 pm

Quoting delta777jet (Reply 7):
All this restructurings, so many different companies doing the same thing, each of them got their own management, offices etc. this most cost them so much money, I doubt they save anything in the end.

Shouldn't a low-cost airline be a simple, easy to understand, product ? Why so much confusion from Lufthansa ?
 
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Wed Dec 03, 2014 11:46 pm

Quoting douglasyxz (Thread starter):
Those 23 new A320 will gradually replace the CRJ900 by end of 2017.

Doesn't Lufthansa Group own these 23 CRJ900? They are still very young, but they are not flying off the shelf, so won't they cost a bundle if they are just parked? Are they fully paid for yet? Perhaps SAS is interested now that they are outsourcing their CRJ900 to Cimber...
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ua900
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:38 am

Quoting delta777jet (Reply 11):
Why to share the German long haul business with the Turkish ? Is Lufthansa in such bad shape already that they need support from Turkish Airlines how to run the airline ?

TK short haul is better than LH short haul. TK CIP is better than LH Senator lounge. TK long haul product is catching up fast. Better question is why LH is counting on collaboration with TK on the low end rather than taking cues for a better C cabin product, especially short haul.

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 14):
Shouldn't a low-cost airline be a simple, easy to understand, product ? Why so much confusion from Lufthansa ?

They should have kept DE around, would have been the simplest solution. I guess it's better to have LH proper and EW as the next iteration of "LH Regional" than to have 4U / EW / XG and LH all side by side. Wonder if EN and CL will be folded into EW as well, sounds like it based on the planned CRJ9 transfers.

Quoting douglasyxz (Thread starter):
4. Headquarters of new EW will be Cologne, due to its suitability for 24-hours operation.

Haha, guess they're not banking on BER becoming a new LH low cost hub anymore. Good for CGN, and they should have lots of old LH Group office space from the old CL HQ around  
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thekorean
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:59 am

Quoting Shuttle12T (Reply 2):

Same brand, different name I imagine, to market to the whole EU.

I hope they set up base outside Deutchland. LGW or STN, MAD, AMS, GVA etc...
 
xiaotung
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:04 am

Are Eurowings operated flights considered LH flights at the moment as far as *A is concerned? What will this move mean in terms of *A?
 
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thekorean
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:23 am

Quoting xiaotung (Reply 18):

Probably nothing, I doubt you can collect pts on a LCC. It would be extremely inefficient and costly.
 
douglasyxz
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:27 am

 
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downtown273
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:27 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 19):
Probably nothing, I doubt you can collect pts on a LCC. It would be extremely inefficient and costly.

Not so sure. Iberia Plus members can earn Avios on Vueling and Iberia Express.
 
r2rho
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:34 pm

Quoting douglasyxz (Thread starter):
Those 23 new A320 will gradually replace the CRJ900 by end of 2017.

What will happen to those routes? An A320 is not a CR9 replacement. Will they disappear? Will Air Dolomiti take over? The CR9's are there for a reason, and those routes have demand, these are not inefficient 50-seat RJ's we're talking about. It would be a shame if LH shuts down all regional flying outside FRA and MUC.

Quoting douglasyxz (Thread starter):
4. Headquarters of new EW will be Cologne, due to its suitability for 24-hours operation.

I hope no German politicians are reading this, otherwise a night curfew will be announced tomorrow morning.

Quoting bmibaby737 (Reply 1):
I'm confused, will Germanwings still exist, but their aircraft receive "operated by Eurowings" titles, or will the airline be entirely shut down and the aircraft transferred to Eurowings?

The brand will cease to exist in Q3 2015. I expect the crew to still be "4U operating for EW" in the beginning, but in the mid-term become all-EW since those crews are cheaper.

Quoting delta777jet (Reply 7):
why on earth they will now launch long haul low cost under Sun Express brand when they could use Eurowings for this as well ?

No, it will be EW brand, operated by SunExpress. To the passenger it will look the same (except maybe for the Turkish crews). EW is just a brand under which several operations will exist.
 
r2rho
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:35 pm

Quoting delta777jet (Reply 7):
First they introduce for millions of Euro's the Germanwings brand, then spend another millions into marketing the Germanwings as a LH intra Europe carrier and now they kill this brand to roll out Eurowings ?

Doesn't matter. Just keep the ball rolling. In two years, announce another major restructuring, shut down and launch another handful of airlines. Just stay busy.
Meanwhile, aircraft paint shops all over Europe are popping open the champagne bottles   , quite a few of those a/c will be re-entering the paint shop barely after having left it.
Quoting delta777jet (Reply 7):
All this restructurings, so many different companies doing the same thing, each of them got their own management, offices etc. this most cost them so much money, I doubt they save anything in the end.

LH has indeed burned through a lot of money these years between acquisitions of struggling airlines, and tried-and failed airlines such as LH Italia, the short-lived new Germanwings, etc.

Quoting Rara (Reply 13):
it seems clear that LH has great difficulties finding a strategy for the future.

It seems that their strategy is to try all strategies, hoping that one will work, and then stick to that. I hope that now, nobody complains anymore about AB not knowing what they want to be  
 
macc
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:42 pm

Why they just dont shut down LH altogether? That would bring the most savings.

What a joke is that to start up Germanwings, transfer their non hub flights, market it, and now shutting down again. Jerks.
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GCT64
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:51 pm

The press release says:

"In an initial step, the two already-existing airlines Germanwings and Eurowings will continue to perform their flight operations with their current networks and crews, under the umbrella of the new concept. For the new European operations the present Eurowings fleet, which consists of 23 Bombardier CRJ900 jets, will be replaced with up to 23 Airbus A320s between February 2015 and March 2017."

And reading the rest of the release it implies that Eurowings (replacing current CRJ9s with new A320s) will operate alongside Germanwings A319s and A320s in an "umbrella framework". Not clear from the PR whether the Germanwings brand will subsequently disappear.

They should be careful they don't recreate Go (Fly) and subsequently sell out to Easyjet creating a rival monster in their own backyard.

Quoting thekorean (Reply 17):

I hope they set up base outside Deutchland. LGW or STN, MAD, AMS, GVA etc...

I really wouldn't suggest LGW or STN, going up against the strength of FR or U2 in their core heartland doesn't sound like a good strategy for financial success.
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SCQ83
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:03 pm

Quoting thekorean (Reply 17):
Same brand, different name I imagine, to market to the whole EU.

I hope they set up base outside Deutchland. LGW or STN, MAD, AMS, GVA etc...

First Eurowings' base is BSL. Clearly to compete with easyJet at one of their fortresses.

Quoting GCT64 (Reply 25):
I really wouldn't suggest LGW or STN, going up against the strength of FR or U2 in their core heartland doesn't sound like a good strategy for financial success.

I think London would be a very logical base. Look at Norwegian! Pretty much anything works in London.

Germanwings has already some presence in STN so they could just develop from there.

And don't forget that Eurowings setting up a base in LON would have "privileged" access to German-speaking countries; that is 100 million people in the heart of Europe.
 
Shuttle12T
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:18 pm

Quoting r2rho (Reply 22):
What will happen to those routes? An A320 is not a CR9 replacement. Will they disappear? Will Air Dolomiti take over? The CR9's are there for a reason, and those routes have demand, these are not inefficient 50-seat RJ's we're talking about. It would be a shame if LH shuts down all regional flying outside FRA and MUC.

Completely agree, Germanwings has just taken over the NCL-DUS route that had been operating as a LH flight until the LH European short haul revamp, it's a fairly popular route at my local airport, but I don't think it would sustain anything more than a CR9 and it would be a shame to see it go, I imagine this is the case with a lot of other routes in Europe too.
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commavia
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:31 pm

This upheaval and restructuring is inevitable, and completely logical in the context of the rapidly-evolving competitive landscape that Lufthansa (and the other European supermajors) face. Lufthansa, Air France, BA and their legacy/network subsidiaries are facing the competitive onslaught of Ryanair, Easyjet, etc. within Europe and the Med, and in particular by the ME3 in the longhaul market across the Eurasian landmass and to Africa.

Given that they have to adapt and cut costs somehow - at least for Lufthansa and Air France/KLM, it looks like the standalone low-cost airline-within-an-airline concept is the best (only) way to go, for better or worse. I'm sure that both Lufthansa and Air France/KLM would prefer to simply radically alter the cost structure of their core airline operations, but because of various union and regulatory realities, that's not possible. Faced with similar stresses and pressures a decade ago, the U.S. carriers largely used the U.S. bankruptcy process to restructure their core operations rather than set up (at least for any long time) low-cost subsidiaries. BA was able to pull off something similar - shedding the unprofitable parts of the network and then restructuring "core BA" for the long-term, and it appears to now be doing the same with Iberia as well (albeit, admittedly, with Vueling in BCN).

Should be interesting to watch how this all plays out ...
 
OSL777FLYER
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:14 pm

As far as I remember, Germanwings was originally a subsidiary of Eurowings before being "adopted" by LH.

I am sad to see they go as I felt they have been one of the best low-cost carriers in Europe in recent years.

As far as the CRJ-900's are concerned, I understand why they are leaving. Simply too expensive to operate for an LCC.

What remains to be seen is how many more strikes at LH this will cause.

It also seems that the media and general population are starting to question where LH are heading with all these strategies and changes. Having lived in Germany for a number of years myself, I know that Germans are very loyal and proud of LH but everyone has their breaking point.

Interesting times ahead.
 
Rara
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:18 pm

So, like I said...

Quoting Rara (Reply 13):
I wouldn't draw any definite conclusion yet. Different media outlets report different things. Let's see whether Germanwings will really disappear as a brand; somehow I don't believe that yet.

Today we learn that Germanwings won't disappear at all. In fact nothing much will change. Eurowings will operate low-cost routes in other European markets. The rest will remain with Germanwings just like it is today.

(German only): http://www.aerotelegraph.com/germanw...windet-nicht-marke-neben-eurowings
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aerosol
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:53 pm

What will happen to cityline?
 
Delta777Jet
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:26 pm

Quoting Rara (Reply 30):
Eurowings will operate low-cost routes in other European markets.

Let's hope the Euro currency will survive otherwise another name change will be due.
I still miss Trans World Airlines and the L-1011
 
douglasyxz
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:10 am

Quoting aerosol (Reply 31):

Since Cityline operates short hops to secondary places from and to the LH hubs FRA and MUC, I don't see any change in the near future. The fleet is suitable and not too old and the operating costs are already lower than mainline.
The CRJ700 will leave the fleet with only CRJ900 and the E-Jets remaining.
 
aviationaware
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:18 am

Quoting aerosol (Reply 31):
What will happen to cityline?

Cityline wil remain unchanged for now, this decision is not impacting it.

Quoting delta777jet (Reply 32):
Let's hope the Euro currency will survive otherwise another name change will be due.

I very much doubt they had the Euro currency in mind when they came up with the Eurowings brand, considering it's older than the currency.

Quoting OSL777FLYER (Reply 29):
I am sad to see they go as I felt they have been one of the best low-cost carriers in Europe in recent years.

Germanwings will NOT go. The brand will be retained, and the product will also remain unchanged but be expanded on Eurowings. So, if anything there is an expansion of the Germanwings concept.

Quoting OSL777FLYER (Reply 29):
What remains to be seen is how many more strikes at LH this will cause.

The pilots at LH cannot legally strike over this concept. They are currently striking about their early retirement (although the wings-decision certainly has a huge impact on their willingness to concede), and they will have to make concessions eventually. They can't strike it out forever.

Quoting Shuttle12T (Reply 27):
I imagine this is the case with a lot of other routes in Europe too.

Germanwings is already cutting low demand domestic routes in Germany due to this. Some routes just won't be able to take a 83% capacity hike, that's life. So yes, we will see routes go. However, note that most of the CRJ flying is to give Germanwings frequency in large markets, so a lot of the CRJ impact will be expressed in the loss of frequency in some of them.

Quoting SCQ83 (Reply 26):
Germanwings has already some presence in STN so they could just develop from there.

I would question the viability of the base of any airline named German- or Euro- anything in the UK.

Quoting macc (Reply 24):
What a joke is that to start up Germanwings, transfer their non hub flights, market it, and now shutting down again. Jerks.

That's not what's happening. Get your facts straight before you snap.
 
Tobias2702
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:40 am

Quoting Rara (Reply 30):
I would question the viability of the base of any airline named German- or Euro- anything in the UK.

I'm not so sure. Eurowings could use some kind of tongue-in-cheek marketing à la "flying from Britain to Europe"...
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b747400erf
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:23 am

Quoting delta777jet (Reply 7):
Are they serious or Kindergarten ?

This is management today. And everyone here still blames the high costs of employees for a failing airline. I do not know why.
 
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hilram
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:31 am

Quoting Tobias2702 (Reply 35):
I'm not so sure. Eurowings could use some kind of tongue-in-cheek marketing à la "flying from Britain to Europe"...

Perfect!   
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seahawk
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:52 am

With such clever management decisions the retirement age of the pilots should be the least problem of that airline.
 
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N14AZ
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:27 am

It is in fact confusing. I tried to compile how many LH-versions there are or there were out there on German and European airports:

LH Express

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Photo © Frank Schaefer



LH CityLine

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Photo © Jordi Grife - Iberian Spotters



Cityline (wthout LH)

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Photo © Roland Bergmann-Spotterteam Graz



LH Regional

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Photo © Dejan Milinkovic - Pixstel Photography



LH Italy

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Photo © Udo K. Haafke



Germanwings

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Photo © Jannik Femerling



Eurowings

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I am not claiming that this is a complete collection.
 
aloges
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:51 am

Quoting N14AZ (Reply 39):
I am not claiming that this is a complete collection.

I doubt that anyone could come up with one right away. As for your list, there was also "Team Lufthansa":

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However, the one that confused me the most was Air Dolomiti. Here's their route map:



That says "operated by Air Dolomiti (partner of Lufthansa)" and "operated by Air Dolomiti on behalf of Lufthansa". And of course, there are code-shares on the first variety. So you can - and I did - end up on a flight that is "operated by Air Dolomiti (partner of Lufthansa)", but not "on behalf of Lufthansa", but with a LH flight number due to the code-share. Quite the branding strategy.  

All of this makes me shudder when I think of the things to come at LH, 4U, EW, XQ/XG and whatever else they decide to drag into this chaos... probably going to be worse than lounge access on 4U flights.
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 12:07 pm

It could have been worse. I mean when others call their Airline WIZZAIR which phonetically is Jokeair in German, LH could have come up with "VAZIZDAZ":

leaning on "VUELING" it could have been called RULING or leaning on VOLOTEA they could have come up with VOLOCOFFEE., Or, instead of Easy" make it "TUFF

Eurowings is down to earth and can instantly be recognized as an Airline, whoich may not be the case for the examples shown.

Quoting aloges (Reply 40):

I doubt that anyone could come up with one right away. As for your list, there was also "Team Lufthansa":

as to the various carriers:

DLT
EUROBERLIN
GERMAN CARGO with their 020 Designator it later became LH Cargo

or the numbers of defunct Airlines which Lh bought up so the names could not be used by others, like Suedflug, Bavaria, Germanair
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
Unflug
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:23 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 40):
That says "operated by Air Dolomiti (partner of Lufthansa)" and "operated by Air Dolomiti on behalf of Lufthansa". And of course, there are code-shares on the first variety. So you can - and I did - end up on a flight that is "operated by Air Dolomiti (partner of Lufthansa)", but not "on behalf of Lufthansa", but with a LH flight number due to the code-share. Quite the branding strategy.

I don't quite understand the problem. As long as I don't have to use different websites for booking I really don't care about the livery of the aircraft I end up flying with...
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:48 pm

Exactly. And if they include the choices from A to B offering from 5* LH to Low Cost Eurowings plus OS and LX the customer has a by far better Service than most other carriers.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
OSL777FLYER
Posts: 164
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:52 pm

Quoting aviationaware (Reply 34):

Glad to hear that the same concept will continue.

I know that the strikes at LH are over the rules of retirement age. However, it seems that the Vereinigung Cockpit are using whatever reasons they can to have a strike these days. This will just add fuel to the fire.

The question over whether a strike is "legal" or not seems to be a topic of discussion between the management of LH at Vereinigung Cockpit these days.

It will be interesting to see who will cave in the end.

From what I have read in the "Spiegel" magazine there seems to be an all out war between the two.
 
aloges
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:23 pm

Quoting Unflug (Reply 42):
I don't quite understand the problem. As long as I don't have to use different websites for booking I really don't care about the livery of the aircraft I end up flying with...

The service is different, the interiors are different, the carrier is different - you're flying on a different airline and it may not be easy to realise that, so the branding is inconsistent. Imagine someone who insists on flying LH for whatever reason, but ends up on EN by mistake: they may easily decide that if LH gives them inconsistency, they can have that experience everywhere.

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 43):
And if they include the choices from A to B offering from 5* LH to Low Cost Eurowings plus OS and LX the customer has a by far better Service than most other carriers.

I'm not sure what makes you think LH is "5*", but anyway: What sort of scenario do you have in mind where someone might have an actual choice between XYZwings and Lufthansa? Mama Hansa may be sending her kids outside to play, but she's definitely not having their shenanigans at home, i.e.: the route networks just do not overlap, nor are they integrated - or did I miss the bit where they're changing that?
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
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hilram
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:01 pm

I do not now "Germanwings" in particular, but I recently had a round-trip OSL - MUN - BUD. The complementary "meal" on the first two flights were so bad that one bite was enogh. On the return trip it was much better, but if I had to pay a few bucks for that sandwithc, I would survive.
I think the seat pitch is the same on Germanwings and LH and LH Cityhopper.

All in all, I doubt my flying experience would have been much different had I flown with "Wings".
Flown on: A319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343 | B732, 734, 735, 736, 73G, 738, 743, 744, 772, 77W | CRJ9 | BAe-146 | DHC-6, 7, 8 | F50 | E195 | MD DC-9 41, MD-82, MD-87
 
PanHAM
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RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:53 am

Quoting aloges (Reply 45):
I'm not sure what makes you think LH is "5*",

Read the full Story of Wednesday's board Meeting. The intentiuon is to make LH the first European 5* Airline. I wish them good luck

As to the booking Screen, as they Show Transfer Connections via VIE MUC and ZRH today, they might Show Transfer Connections via CGN as well.
I doubt that they miss out connectivity, at least for the Long haul flights. A dense seated 332 won't fill at CGN without that.
Was Erlauben Erdogan!!!
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2858
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:20 am

Quoting PanHAM (Reply 47):
I doubt that they miss out connectivity, at least for the Long haul flights. A dense seated 332 won't fill at CGN without that.

They will be focussing on package holiday makers with Rail & Fly passes for connectivity, Germanwings connections will only play a limited role.
 
boysteve
Posts: 890
Joined: Sun Apr 25, 2004 7:02 am

RE: LH's Future With Germanwings And Eurowings

Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:44 pm

Quoting aviationaware (Reply 34):
I would question the viability of the base of any airline named German- or Euro- anything in the UK.

I don't think this will be a problem. People will choose the airline based on cost and schedule. Brand 'Germany' is not really an issue in the UK, certainly not by those of us who travel regularly!

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