Delta Seeking To Start MSP-KEF Flights

eaa3 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:13 am

There is an interesting piece of news in Icelandic media today saying that Delta has received permission for daily flights from Minneapolis to Keflavik, Iceland. This doesn't mean that they will actually be daily and they will be summer flights.

But it appears that Delta is expanding it's product offering to Iceland. I assume this flight will be operated on a B757.

http://www.vb.is/frettir/112087/

B4REAL · Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:22 am

Interesting. They already fly there from JFK and IcelandAir I believe already flies to MSP.

What's odd is that I think FI still has a few relationships with AF, KL, SU, OK and WS. I wonder if SkyTeam is in the mix?

Thomaas · Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:24 am

They are probably just trying to undermine Iceland Air on the route. This would make much more sense at DTW than MSP.

29erUSA187 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:37 am

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 2):
They are probably just trying to undermine Iceland Air on the route

Definitely. I wouldn't be surprised if they use a wide body just for a better product offering.

Prost · Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:02 am

Icelandair offers a very good value for budget travellers to Europe, and I know their NA-KEF-EUR (with 2 days in KEF offered) are very popular packages for people.

I'm not saying that DL won't be able to fill the planes, I just wonder if this will be the optimal route to put them on and get a good return.

usflyer msp · Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:08 am

The ghost of NW rises again!

This is totally from the NW playbook, except they would run a 744 on MSP-KEF just to spite FI.

FI must be increasingly successful in cutting into DL's MSP- Europe traffic and DL must feel the need to send a signal...

burnsie28 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:09 am

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 2):
They are probably just trying to undermine Iceland Air on the route. This would make much more sense at DTW than MSP.

If that was the case they would have done this years and years ago, probably even back in the NW days.

MSP makes more sense than DTW due to the large Scandic population in the Minnesota area.

lesfalls · Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:09 am

Why is DL wanting to operate this Route?Is there an icelandic popoulation in MSP?

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 1):
They already fly there from JFK

I dont undersand why they operate this service?

stlgph · Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 7):
Is there an icelandic popoulation in MSP?

LOL. Oh my. Minnesota only thinks of itself as the 6th scandinavian country.

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 7):
I dont undersand why they operate this service?

Iceland is *hot* right now. JFK to KEF on Delta makes total sense. As I've mentioned in other threads, I'm surprised United hasn't done Chicago to KEF in the summer.

MAH4546 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:34 am

Quoting burnsie28 (Reply 6):
MSP makes more sense than DTW due to the large Scandic population in the Minnesota area.

Which nonetheless doesn't drive much traffic to the region, and certainly not to Iceland.

lesfalls · Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:43 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 8):
Minnesota only thinks of itself as the 6th scandinavian country.

I only thought DL was starting this service because of an icelandic population.

usflyer msp · Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:29 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Which nonetheless doesn't drive much traffic to the region, and certainly not to Iceland.

True. The connections are now 5-6 generation which doesn't drive much traffic. Remember the dismal failure NW's MSP-OSL was?

eaa3 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:34 am

I really don't think this would be about bringing Americans back to Scandinavians for family. It's just about selling tourist trips to Iceland to random people!

KaiGywer · Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:39 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 8):
LOL. Oh my. Minnesota only thinks of itself as the 6th scandinavian country.

Well Iceland isn't part of Scandinavia (nor is Finland), so they'd only be the 4th Scandinavian country

JAGflyer · Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:39 am

(Armchair CEO checking in)KEF is a transit city for the majority of FI passengers. Iceland is not a major tourist destination or business hub that can drive O/D traffic. I'd be curious to know (and I'm sure someone can find it) what the number of O/D passengers from the US to KEF was.

[Edited 2014-12-03 18:39:56]

stlgph · Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:52 am

Quoting MSP" class="quote" target="_blank">USFlyer MSP (Reply 11):
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
Which nonetheless doesn't drive much traffic to the region, and certainly not to Iceland.

True. The connections are now 5-6 generation which doesn't drive much traffic.

You guys smoking something? Minnesota - Scandinavia compliments each other in tourism and culture. MSP to KEF and beyond to the other countries does great for Icelandair. Full boats.

MIflyer12 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:59 am

Quoting Jagflyer (Reply 14):
I'd be curious to know (and I'm sure someone can find it) what the number of O/D passengers from the US to KEF was.

I can't find a number but I see KEF didn't make the top 40 list of international gateway airports to the U.S. for 12-mos ending 9/13. #40 YEG at 1.227 million passengers.

Thule · Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:05 am

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 7):
I dont undersand why they operate this service?

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 10):
I only thought DL was starting this service because of an icelandic population.

Quoting Jagflyer (Reply 14):
Iceland is not a major tourist destination or business hub that can drive O/D traffic.

There's a lot of underestimating of the recent tourist explosion in Iceland over the last few years. As the source article states, the US is now the #2 foreign tourist origin in Iceland besides the UK. The tourist numbers have increased so much that some Icelandic politicians have proposed charging foreigners entry to national parks (while keeping them free or reduced price for citizens). The FI SEA-KEF route has been wildly successful, spawning the DEN, PDX, and YVR routes, and it's apparent that young/outdoorsy Americans from northern cities especially are putting Iceland at the top of their summer vacation list. FI has also proven that you don't need a 100% full-service product and lie-flat J seats to fill planes to Iceland. Whether family heritage factors into this is a valid subject for debate, but the hint that the MSP football team is named the Vikings surely can't count against it...

As far as loads and profitability are concerned, I'm not qualified to say. Load statistics on the FI MSP-KEF route would be interesting to see. But it's hard to find someone who lives in MSP that doesn't have a healthy SkyMiles account.

Viscount724 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:46 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 15):
You guys smoking something? Minnesota - Scandinavia complements each other in tourism and culture. MSP to KEF and beyond to the other countries does great for Icelandair. Full boats.

FI serves 8 cities in Scandinavia (plus HEL) with a connection at KEF. And from MSP it's probably the shortest routing to most if not all of them

enilria · Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:10 am

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 2):
They are probably just trying to undermine Iceland Air on the route.

in spades

af773atmsp · Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:39 am

Honestly, I hope DL doesn't start MSP-KEF as I fear that would chase out FI and they would never return. But also, I don't see DL having much success on this route. Many travelers on FI are connecting to flights to the rest of Europe via KEF. Not many Icelandics will be connecting to other flights via MSP, and the only reason why they would come here is to see the Mall of America.

I flew on FI to LHR and enjoyed the service. It was also nice to have a short layover at KEF for a stretch break.

PWMRamper · Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:12 am

The JFK-KEF flights are full and overbooked pretty much every day throughout the summer. Highly seasonal, but those planes are quite full, and from what I've seen, fares are high.

JFK is tough for smaller midwestern airports to get to though. So this could be interesting.

panamair · Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:20 am

Quoting PWMRamper (Reply 23):
The JFK-KEF flights are full and overbooked pretty much every day throughout the summer. Highly seasonal, but those planes are quite full, and from what I've seen, fares are high.

And it's relatively cheap to operate - a 757 and short stage length (it's roughly a JFK-LAX/SFO transcon). In fact, DL will be bringing back JFK-KEF for S15 earlier than previous summers - restart on May 1 2015, and daily service to boot. Last summer it started around 1 June, and operated only 5-6x weekly.

MAH4546 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:43 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 15):
You guys smoking something? Minnesota - Scandinavia compliments each other in tourism and culture. MSP to KEF and beyond to the other countries does great for Icelandair. Full boats.

No, nobody is "smoking" anything.

There is no significant traffic between Minneapolis and Scandinavia.

Icelandair offers plenty of connections throughout Europe, not just to Oslo. If Icelandair was relying on Scandinavian traffic from MSP, it would fail. The UK, France, the Netherlands, Spain, Italy, Ireland and Germany are all larger local markets to Minneapolis than any country in Scandinavia. Heck, more people fly between MSP and TLV in one year than between MSP and Norway.

[Edited 2014-12-03 22:44:31]

yellowtail · Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:55 am

Is DL trying to tick off yet another carrier?

LAX772LR · Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:51 am

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 24):
Is DL trying to tick off yet another carrier?

If by "tick off" you mean offer service from one of their major hubs that just happens to compete with another carrier whose fortunes DL couldn't possible care less about.... then sure.

MAH4546 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:28 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 25):
If by "tick off" you mean offer service from one of their major hubs that just happens to compete with another carrier whose fortunes DL couldn't possible care less about.... then sure.

No. By "tick off" he means trying to run a carrier out of a market that is likely depressing yields in the Minneapolis-Europe market. Please let's not pretend Delta welcomes Icelandair being in Minneapolis. That's ridiculous. Delta absolutely cares that Icelandair performs weakly in the MSP market.

bjorn14 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:29 pm

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 7):
Is there an icelandic popoulation in MSP?

Not per se- But a lot of of Scandinavians live there and are really proud of their heritage. Norway used to have a consulate in MSP.

Quoting KaiGywer (Reply 13):
Well Iceland isn't part of Scandinavia

Then why do they share an embassy with NO, SE, & DK in Berlin?

airbazar · Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:42 pm

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 2):
They are probably just trying to undermine Iceland Air on the route

I don't agree. FI's market is carrying passengers to and from the rest of Europe. How is DL going to do that?

Quoting MSP" class="quote" target="_blank">USFlyer MSP (Reply 5):
FI must be increasingly successful in cutting into DL's MSP- Europe traffic and DL must feel the need to send a signal...

Again, what signal? As you mention, FI is catering to MSP-Europe traffic so how is DL going to do that if their flight stops in KEF?

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 7):

I dont understand why they operate this service?

BOS/NYC-Iceland is a significant tourist market as well as a fish market

johns624 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:44 pm

My wife and I are going to CPH on AF in May to take a Norwegian cruise. On the way back, we're taking FI to KEF for 2 days and DL to JFK and back to DTW. We're both avid outdoors people even though we're in our mid 50's.

MIflyer12 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:47 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 27):
Then why do they share an embassy with NO, SE, & DK in Berlin?

I'll take the rhetorical bait: Because it's a country of just ~320K people and recognizes it can't support free-standing diplomatic representation in 150+ countries like the U.S. or UK.

Someone83 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:55 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 27):
Norway used to have a consulate in MSP.

"Used to" is the key here

usflyer msp · Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:05 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 28):
Again, what signal? As you mention, FI is catering to MSP-Europe traffic so how is DL going to do that if their flight stops in KEF?

They are trying to make sure that MSP-KEF is so unprofitable that FI drops it, then DL won't have to worry about the MSP-KEF-Europe traffic...

enilria · Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:19 pm

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 24):
Is DL trying to tick off yet another carrier?

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 25):
If by "tick off" you mean offer service from one of their major hubs that just happens to compete with another carrier whose fortunes DL couldn't possible care less about.... then sure.

Don't fool yourselves. As soon as FI is gone from MSP this route will be dropped. If it lasts a year beyond FI I'd be shocked.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 26):
No. By "tick off" he means trying to run a carrier out of a market that is likely depressing yields in the Minneapolis-Europe market.

That's exactly what this is about. Let's pray that the deal MSP just did to give DL $18m in PFC funds for their bag system in return for "Hawaii and a new international route" did not inadvertently lead to running out the only low fare service to Europe. That would be a travesty.

premobrimo · Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:35 pm

Quoting Someone83 (Reply 31):

There is still an honorary consulate in Minneapolis. Albeit small, they still process anything that the other consulates do.

http://www.norway.org/Embassy/minneapolis/

RobertS975 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:54 pm

This is not about losing European bound pax to FI... just tourism to Iceland. There are NO Skyteam flights from KEF to Europe as far as I know!

compensateme · Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:05 pm

Quoting MSP" class="quote" target="_blank">USFlyer MSP (Reply 32):
They are trying to make sure that MSP-KEF is so unprofitable that FI drops it, then DL won't have to worry about the MSP-KEF-Europe traffic...

FI's service depends on beyond traffic (there's very little to KEF itself) so I doubt that. Most likely this is just a rumor, or misguided speculation. I seriously doubt DL could generate enough traffic for two flights to KEF, especially given JFK has been popular NRSA route...

PSU.DTW.SCE · Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:17 pm

Once again MSP / Minnesota - Scandinavia dies are vastly overstated on a.net....

Yes, there is significant historical connections between the two regions due to immigration patterns from the late 1800s.
However, the peak of the immigration was between 1850-1900, over 100 years ago. The "VFR" connection between the two sounds cutsy in theory, but doesn't exist. While there is always some interest to go visit one's heritage is not enough to fill daily flights between the two. The reality is about 4M people in the region claim to be of Scandinavia decent but its as time goes on bond and family ties back to the original countries disappear.

Flighty · Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:20 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 33):
Don't fool yourselves. As soon as FI is gone from MSP this route will be dropped. If it lasts a year beyond FI I'd be shocked

Exactly. It's not necessary to go into more detail about this. There isn't any.

RKSofACinUSA · Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:30 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 33):
Don't fool yourselves. As soon as FI is gone from MSP this route will be dropped. If it lasts a year beyond FI I'd be shocked.

This route makes perfect sense for DL without driving FI out of MSP. FI has been flying this route forever and with or without DL will not likely drop it. There is plenty of traffic for everyone. FI gets most of their passengers to MSP from inbound connections. Likewise, DL will get most of their passengers to KEF from inbound connections as well. JFKKEF has been hugely successful for DL as others have stated. They are increasing their season in 2015. IF they start MSPKEF, it will make KEF more attractive to a different part of the USA that previously did not have good connections. Also, DL could do some marketing in Iceland to attract Icelanders traveling to US and Canadian cities that FI does not serve.

usflyer msp · Thu Dec 04, 2014 4:54 pm

Quoting RKSofACinUSA (Reply 39):
This route makes perfect sense for DL without driving FI out of MSP. FI has been flying this route forever and with or without DL will not likely drop it. There is plenty of traffic for everyone. FI gets most of their passengers to MSP from inbound connections. Likewise, DL will get most of their passengers to KEF from inbound connections as well. JFKKEF has been hugely successful for DL as others have stated. They are increasing their season in 2015. IF they start MSPKEF, it will make KEF more attractive to a different part of the USA that previously did not have good connections. Also, DL could do some marketing in Iceland to attract Icelanders traveling to US and Canadian cities that FI does not serve.

Don't be so naive. Iceland only has 320K people and most traffic to Iceland comes from East of the Mississippi river (which MSP does nothing for connection-wise). This route would solely be about running FI out of MSP...

RKSofACinUSA · Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:12 pm

Quoting MSP" class="quote" target="_blank">USFlyer MSP (Reply 40):
This route would solely be about running FI out of MSP...

I may a bit naive but I refuse to be that cynical. FI has been flying this route since the 1990's and suddenly DL decides one day to destroy the route for them for no good reason? I see no business related motive for that. I do see a business opportunity for DL in a growing market, independent of FI.

CHI787ORD · Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:23 pm

On a side note, why hasn't FI, UA, or AA looked into starting ORD-KEF yet? Seems like a 757 route that UA could run 3-4x a week in the summer

frostyj · Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:26 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Reply 27):

He's right Iceland is not in Scandinavia. Northern Ieland and Scotland are about 500 miles + closer than most of Scandinavia..

[Edited 2014-12-04 09:28:28]

Flighty · Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:35 pm

Quoting RKSofACinUSA (Reply 41):
suddenly DL decides one day to destroy the route for them for no good reason?

It's 150+ int'l people per day who "should" be flying Delta. Soon, they will go thru AMS or CDG. That's what it is about. (Edit: if this rumor is even true.)

[Edited 2014-12-04 09:54:08]

eaa3 · Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:18 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 43):
He's right Iceland is not in Scandinavia. Northern Ieland and Scotland are about 500 miles + closer than most of Scandinavia..

Iceland is considered to be culturally Scandinavian. Technically you might call Iceland a part of the Nordic countries, but I've never understood what the difference between that and Scandinavian countries is. Technically though, Scandinavia is just a peninsula. The languages are very similar and Iceland used to be a part of Denmark. This means that the way the government and bureaucracy work is very similar to Denmark. The people of Iceland look very similar to Norwegians as they are descendants of Vikings that moved from mostly modern day Norway.

cschleic · Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:48 pm

First Seattle and AS, now....KEF and FI!

DTWPurserBoy · Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:04 pm

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 7):
I dont undersand why they operate this service?

Iceland is the hot new tourist destination. It has hot spring baths, lots to do. A lot of the travel magazines have been featuring Iceland as a destination for tourism.

Now in my day KI was the cheapest way to get to Europe--crammed into a DC-8-63 with 251 bodies you didn't care.

RJNUT · Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:25 pm

i think it serves as a great collection point for ALL Midwesterners wanting to travel to Iceland as most of the cites are not connected well with FI due to lack of domestic feed partnerships, such as Jet Blue or Alaska. Now, one has to almost build split ticket arrangements which is not always a good idea. I think FI will keep local support for the beyond traffic and the famous stopover plans!

compensateme · Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:06 pm

Quoting MSP" class="quote" target="_blank">USFlyer MSP (Reply 40):
Don't be so naive. Iceland only has 320K people and most traffic to Iceland comes from East of the Mississippi river (which MSP does nothing for connection-wise). This route would solely be about running FI out of MSP...

Again, you "run FI out" by flooding the market with capacity and cheap fares to the places people are going to... which isn't KEF. I doubt DL could support two flights to KEF without offering money-losing fares... and these fares will have zero impact on FI, since the service is targeted to points beyond KEF.

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