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Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:01 am

Please post here to continue the discussion.

Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 2 (by uka330 Nov 20 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Happy holidays,

Ben Soriano
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:08 am

so willl these Airbuses replace the 747-400s?
 
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Ab345
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:11 am

Quoting LPSHOBBY (Reply 1):

According to DL yes they will replace 744s and 763s
 
flyabr
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:21 pm

So, what the heck is DL gonna do with those 18 788s it has on order? Does that order get shifted to 737Max aircraft?? With the recent Airbus wide body order, I can't see any orders for Boeing wide bodies anytime soon.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:30 pm

Quoting flyabr (Reply 3):
So, what the heck is DL gonna do with those 18 788s it has on order? Does that order get shifted to 737Max aircraft?

Some believe they will convert it to MAX and all future widebody orders will be only for the A330neo and A350 families.

Quoting flyabr (Reply 3):
With the recent Airbus wide body order, I can't see any orders for Boeing wide bodies anytime soon.

On the flip side, if they do start taking delivery of those airframes around 2020 per the latest plan, they won't need to order any additional widebodies from either Boeing or Airbus anytime soon.

In other words, the A330-900s become the first tranche of 767-300ER replacements and the 787-8s would become the second. Then I could see another RFP (between the 787 and A330neo families) to replace the 767-400ERs, A330-200s and older A330-300s.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:44 pm

Based on the latest wide body order, I sorta get the impression that Delta doesn't want a wide body as small as the 788. That particular aircraft has rarely if ever been mentioned by DL management to my knowledge. Personally I wouldn't be at all surprised if DL at some point a few years down the road orders more A339s and even some A338s to replace the rest of the 767 fleet and older CEO A330s.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:04 am

Quoting flyabr (Reply 5):
Based on the latest wide body order, I sorta get the impression that Delta doesn't want a wide body as small as the 788...Personally I wouldn't be at all surprised if DL at some point a few years down the road orders more A339s and even some A338s to replace the rest of the 767 fleet and older CEO A330s.

Well the A330-800 and 787-8 are effectively identical in size.

The A330-900 should be able to perform all of the 767-400ER missions. It doesn't have the legs of the 767-300ER or A330-200, but I don't know what kind of mission lengths those two frames fly. If they're in the neighborhood of 8-10 hours, then the A330-900 could handle them, as well. But for anything longer, they will need the A330-800, 787 (-8 or -9) or A350-900.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:20 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Well the A330-800 and 787-8 are effectively identical in size.

True that... but with the A339 just recently put in the order books...and the 788 sort of in limbo...seems the A338 is more likely at this point in time vs the 788 if indeed DL wants a wide body of that size. Suspect we won't know the answer to these questions for some time yet...  
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:26 am

Quoting flyabr (Reply 7):
True that... but with the A339 just recently put in the order books...and the 788 sort of in limbo...seems the A338 is more likely at this point in time vs the 788 if indeed DL wants a wide body of that size.

Well I expect the 787-8 to offer better economics on long missions than the A330-800. And DL will have a large pool of widebody pilots familiar with Boeing "flight-deck philosophy". The 777 and 787 have a common pilot type rating and while I imagine the conversion from 767 to 787 is not as easy, I imagine it's a bit easier than from the 767 to A330/A350.  
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:41 am

Flightglobal had a very interesting analysis on this with direct quotes from Nathaniel Pieper (Vice President of Fleet strategy at DL). Don't know if it is behind a paywall so I ll just copy paste the juicy stuff. So according to Mr. Pieper:

“I think in the grand scheme of 50 airplanes it really was two major decisions and, almost, two independent decisions.Two very different size airplanes [and] different mission capabilities. We looked three to five, to seven years out with our fleet and identified that we needed to start securing what those replacement aircraft would be.”

"Though the air show at Farnborough and then leading into the fall, [we] started to create final scenarios for manufacturers that then lead to what we kindly call a bake off in the beginning of November"

Delta came to the conclusion that it needed an aircraft with roughly 300 seats compared to the 376-seat 747-400 that could fly deeper into Asia from the USA compared to existing aircraft, says Pieper. This was driven by its strategy to shrink its Tokyo Narita hub and increase the number of nonstop flights across the Pacific."

[We] needed to take advantage of Delta’s bigger footprint in the US,” he says. “Instead of having big airplanes aggregate traffic in Narita and then fly beyond Narita to popular destinations in Asia, [we needed them to] fly from the two or three big centres that we now have in the US nonstop to the Hong Kongs, Shanghais, Beijings, etc. That doesn’t need a 400-seat 747-400 to do it, it leads you to a smaller airplane.”

Anderson and other senior executives at the carrier visited both the A350 line in Toulouse and the 787 line in Everett in October and came to the conclusion that either aircraft would meet its needs, says Pieper.

“Yes, there are differences between the airplanes – the [A]350 is a little bit bigger, the 787-9 can fly a little bit further [and] you’ve got an engine choice on the 787 as well – but ultimately either plane could do what we needed to do,” he says, adding that this is the “best outcome” for a potential buyer.

“On the 767 replacement, that really became a situation we evaluated pretty quickly and figured out for a 5,000 mile airplane, which is what we needed to fly US-Europe and a little bit of Seattle to Asia as well, Boeing really didn’t and doesn’t have an airplane that’s optimised for that,” says Pieper.

“You’ve got 787-8s and 787-9s that are roughly in the size of 767s, maybe a little bit bigger, but [with] much more range capability that ultimately translates into ownership costs, which is extra and something we didn’t want to pay,” he continues. “It doesn’t do us any good to pay an ownership premium for an 8,000-mile airplane if you know all you're going to fly it is Minneapolis to Paris.”

This initial conclusion placed Boeing, at least for the time being, out of the running for a 767 replacement, says Pieper. However, Delta seriously considered re-evaluating both the 787 and the A330neo in a year or two when its economic calculations could have shifted towards a larger or longer-range aircraft, he adds.

“We presented Airbus a choice, with our 767 primary replacement timing coming in 2019 and really 2020 and beyond, we looked at them and said ‘what makes us order the A330neo today versus coming back to you in 18 months or 24 months,’” he says. “’If you want us to be your A330neo flagship [customer], the total economic package you’re going to need to show us is going to have to be strong enough to keep us from just kicking the can.’”

Airbus ultimately – a term Pieper uses liberally – met Delta’s economic targets for the A330neo, resulting in the airline’s order for the type. This came even though the aircraft is not the “proven technology” that senior executives, including Anderson, have repeatedly said it prefers.


I think this sums up everything discussed so far  
Source:
http://www.flightglobal.com/news/art...eltas-independent-widebody-406770/

[Edited 2014-12-05 16:42:53]
 
flyabr
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:56 am

So if I read the above correctly, it sounds like the 787 was never really in the running for transatlantic ops?? That just reinforces my position (at least in my head) that the 787 may never see the light of day at DL, not even for transpacific ops.  
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:00 am

The Pacific contest was between the 789 and A359 but there was indeed no competition for the Atlantic contest.

That said, I wonder what Delta would have bought if Airbus had not launched the A330neo? A330ceo's or .. ?
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:02 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
DL will have a large pool of widebody pilots familiar with Boeing "flight-deck philosophy".

I'm not dismissing your argument in the least as I am firmly in the camp that we will know what Delta's plans are as soon as they actually announce the orders and not a moment sooner.   Having said that they will have pilots familiar with both philosophies and of course pilots change equipment (and brands of equipment) with great regularity without issue.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 8):
The 777 and 787 have a common pilot type rating and while I imagine the conversion from 767 to 787 is not as easy, I imagine it's a bit easier than from the 767 to A330/A350.

It's irrelevant from a training standpoint unless a carrier is able to get an abbreviated syllabus approved for the 767 to 787 v. 767 to Airbus. If they get the full school they get the full school. I don't know what the training footprints for that will look like, but it becomes much more challenging for the training planners to have a large number of footprints out there as pairing students gets trickier while complying with PWA conditions, etc.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:12 am

Oh, I don't know that I'd write the 787 off, quite so quickly.

Delta's strategy of flying US to Asia direct, and choosing primarily the 359 as its aircraft for doing has one gotcha. It means you cannot start a route with a smaller aircraft and grow into a 359. That's fine, to a point, but there would be some distinct advantages in having a fleet of 18 789s for trial balloons. After all, what's worked so beautifully in Europe was that routes that were questionable could begin with a 757 in some northern cases, and with 767s in others, and grow up to 332s then 333s and on....

I find it hard to believe that DL will walk away from having a smaller than 77L or 359 sized plane with the range to dip its toe in to some of those far-flung or questionable markets. Could DL consolidate all BKK bound passengers into two 789s from two chosen US gateways?

I still hold out hope that Boeing will craft a deal that gets the terrible teens and maybe 10 788s into Delta's hands for rock bottom prices, separate from the 18 orders at issue. I think DL is the one group who could handle the teens... maybe the only group that could. And I think it would be a truly beautiful thing to see them take wing with the Widget.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:28 am

Quoting eugdjinn (Reply 13):
I still hold out hope that Boeing will craft a deal that gets the terrible teens and maybe 10 788s into Delta's hands for rock bottom prices
Quoting eugdjinn (Reply 13):
I think DL is the one group who could handle the teens... maybe the only group that could.

Why would Delta want to? They went out of their way to consciously shun early build 787's; why on Earth would they want a bunch of substandard early aircraft now? Have you ever seen a single credible source claiming that DL was looking into such a deal? I'm just asking, because if you have please do share the details.

I have no idea if DL will ever operate the 787 or not, but I have found no evidence that they are remotely upset they postponed the early build NWA legacy 787 orders.

Quoting eugdjinn (Reply 13):
I think it would be a truly beautiful thing to see them take wing with the Widget.

Never a valid reason for procuring several billion dollars worth of aircraft.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 11):
That said, I wonder what Delta would have bought if Airbus had not launched the A330neo? A330ceo's or .. ?

I would imagine they would have gone with the A330-300. If the 787-9 was too much performance for the route, the A350-900 would have been, as well.



I noticed another article on the FlightGlobal blog notes "Delta maintains 787-8 order despite preferring the -9". So sounds like the 787 may yet fly in Delta colors.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:31 am

Quoting eugdjinn (Reply 13):
Oh, I don't know that I'd write the 787 off, quite so quickly.

At this point that seems like wishful thinking more than anything.  
Quoting eugdjinn (Reply 13):
That's fine, to a point, but there would be some distinct advantages in having a fleet of 18 789s for trial balloons

Since the A359 and 789 are so close in capability/capacity why order the 789 given the recent planned procurement of A359s?

Quoting eugdjinn (Reply 13):
I still hold out hope that Boeing will craft a deal that gets the terrible teens and maybe 10 788s into Delta's hands for rock bottom prices, separate from the 18 orders at issue.

Would be interesting to know if Boeing tried unloading those terrible teens and DL flat out said no...?

[Edited 2014-12-05 17:41:29]
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:50 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):

Again the juicy quotes :

“Those [firm] orders stay out there,” says Nathaniel Pieper, vice-president of fleet strategy and transactions at the Atlanta-based carrier, at the Ascend Flightglobal Consultancy Finance Forum in San Francisco. “[But] just wait and see how that plays out.”

Delta evaluated all three of the 787 variants as part of its widebody campaign this year and found the economics of the -9 “more compelling” than the -8, says Pieper.

“We just like the economics of the -9 so much better, having those extra seats and the range capability was just much more compelling,


I don't read this as good news for the 788. On the other hand the 789 may have a future with DL but for now I don't see where. Probably the next RFP may show
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:54 am

Quoting Ab345 (Reply 17):
I don't read this as good news for the 788. On the other hand the 789 may have a future with DL but for now I don't see where. Probably the next RFP may show

The 787-9 is a 1:1 direct replacement for the 777-200 family in terms of size. And those 18 787 orders would perfectly cover the 777-200ER (8) and 777-200LR (10) replacement tranche.

And if DL likes the 787-9's economics, they're going to love the 787-10's.  
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:02 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 18):
The 787-9 is a 1:1 direct replacement for the 777-200 family in terms of size.

The A359 also fits that bill, and was just ordered. Seems like it's the likely choice to replace DL's 777s further down the road. However, I do like the way you keep the pilot light lit Stitch!  
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:23 am

It seems to me the next widebody RFP that Airbus will make certain that they craft another great deal for DL. If Boeing does begin work on a NSA, I can see those 18 787 become 25-30 NSAs for thinner routes, less range of course.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:34 am

Quoting eugdjinn (Reply 13):
It means you cannot start a route with a smaller aircraft and grow into a 359. That's fine, to a point, but there would be some distinct advantages in having a fleet of 18 789s for trial balloons.

The 789 is only a little bit smaller than the A359.

If they need a new plane smaller than the A359, then the A338 would fit the bill perfectly and provide fleet commonality (if that's a factor for DL).
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:44 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
I noticed another article on the FlightGlobal blog notes "Delta maintains 787-8 order despite preferring the -9". So sounds like the 787 may yet fly in Delta colors.

In that article, Pieper said the following:

Those [firm] orders stay out there
[But] just wait and see how that plays out

I suppose Delta doesn't know yet what to do with the 787 order.
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:59 am

The A330 NEO is not new technology so from a risk point of view should be very low, the changes are minimal really. All you are doing is hanging a T1000 engine on it and making the changes to make that possible.
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:55 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 18):
And if DL likes the 787-9's economics, they're going to love the 787-10's.  

The operational economics yes but wasn't the -10 rumored to be a bit expensive ? An argument that would surely fit DL "way of thinking"
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:58 pm

Quoting Ab345 (Reply 24):
The operational economics yes but wasn't the -10 rumored to be a bit expensive? An argument that would surely fit DL "way of thinking"

The A350 isn't exactly "cheap", either.  
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:08 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
So sounds like the 787 may yet fly in Delta colors.

If they later decide they need something bigger than 339 for a similar mission, their 787 order wlll be delivered as 7810s.

Likewise if they later need something bigger than 359 for that mission, odds are on 3510.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:12 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):
The A350 isn't exactly "cheap", either.

Oh come on Stitch  I meant compared to what it offers compared to the 789 and their price difference. For Pacific operations the 359 is better compared to the -10 but the latter could be suited best for Atlantic. But isn't that what the 339 is for? And again although I hate using this argument between the A339 and the B78J the price difference could be easily in 9 digit numbers 
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:31 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):


In that article, Pieper said the following:

Those [firm] orders stay out there
[But] just wait and see how that plays out

I suppose Delta doesn't know yet what to do with the 787 order.

I believe it works well for them, boeing is provably asking them selves are we going to lose that order?
Even if they don't feel like that, they ain't going to wait till that happens, GE is also in the same boat,
When the next RFP comes where will Delta be in Boeing & GE minds?
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:40 pm

Quoting flyabr (Reply 10):
That just reinforces my position (at least in my head) that the 787 may never see the light of day at DL, not even for transpacific ops.

Based on what Pieper said, I can't see the 788 ever having a place in the DL fleet. The A330Neo will be the 763 replacement. The only circumstances in which I could see DL get a 789 is that they might need acft of that size in a certain timeframe and Airbus couldn't meet it, but it's hard to see them having two acft types doing pretty much the same job.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):

I noticed another article on the FlightGlobal blog notes "Delta maintains 787-8 order despite preferring the -9". So sounds like the 787 may yet fly in Delta colors.

I think the only reason they maintain the -8 order is that they haven't yet reached an agreement with Boeing as to how they can transfer it to 737MAXs.

Quoting flyabr (Reply 16):
Would be interesting to know if Boeing tried unloading those terrible teens and DL flat out said no...?

I think if I were to print what I think Delta's response might be, I'd get banned until the A350s start entering service!

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 22):
Those [firm] orders stay out there
[But] just wait and see how that plays out

I suppose Delta doesn't know yet what to do with the 787 order.

I think it does, but it didn't feel the need to announce it at the time; my feeling is that Boeing will tie these into its next 737 order. They still have a good number of MD88s in their fleet, as well as MD90s and older 757s, so there's still plenty of scope to convert these to 788 orders to 788 MAXs.

I guess my question would be (and it's probably a subject for a whole new thread): could DL use A321NeoLRs (what a mouthful!) as a 752EROPs replacement ... looks like we might have a situation where DL uses Airbus for EROPs and Boeings for domestic and "Americas" routes.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:01 pm

Boeing is going to MAX the 788 now? This is news!
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:52 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 25):
The A350 isn't exactly "cheap", either.

Airlines have complained the 787-10 is too expensive for what it offers.
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:05 pm

Quoting NYCAdvantage (Reply 28):
GE is also in the same boat,

Not really, Delta has RR on order for their 787s
 
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Stitch
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:30 pm

Quoting Ab345 (Reply 27):
For Pacific operations the 359 is better compared to the -10 but the latter could be suited best for Atlantic. But isn't that what the 339 is for?

Yes, but the 787-10 is a fair bit larger than the A330-900 so it would offer growth potential and lower CASM than the A350-900. And the 787-10 should be able to haul a decent load to Japan, Korea and China out of SEA, which would free A350-900s for TPAC missions from SLC, DTW, MSP, ATL and JFK.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 31):
Airlines have complained the 787-10 is too expensive for what it offers.

They say the same about the 777-300ER, but they still order them by the shedload.  
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:57 pm

It is rather ironic that the 787 (the point-to-point and hub-buster plane) lost out to the 359 when Delta decided to shrink it's Narita hub, and fly non-stop from the US to Asia.

Anderson, like a good running back, spotted a gap and ran through it, while the 'heavies' upfront slugged it out in the 'bake off'. Those 18 787 orders remain in his back pocket, and will provide useful leverage going forward.

The 787 helped spawn the 330NEO and 359, and finds herself competing against both in the widebody market. It will be interesting to track the outcome of future 330/350 vs. 787 RFP's. So far, advantage 787 with respect to overall order numbers. The 7810 will make this competition much more interesting.

[Edited 2014-12-06 09:01:30]

[Edited 2014-12-06 09:02:49]
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Stitch
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:34 pm

Quoting swallow (Reply 34):
It is rather ironic that the 787 (the point-to-point and hub-buster plane) lost out to the 359 when Delta decided to shrink it's Narita hub, and fly non-stop from the US to Asia.

If the A330-900 didn't exist, I'd be inclined to agree, but IMO the decision to choose the A330-900 for TATL ensured the A350-900 would win TPAC.
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:40 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 31):
Airlines have complained the 787-10 is too expensive for what it offers.

But that is all subject of negotiations. If the B787-10 would not sell that well due to pricing, it will be the pricing which will give way. But all that is speculative for now. The coming years we should not expect any more WB-orders by DL.
 
Vladex
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:43 pm

Why wouldn't DL use widebodies intracontinental during busy hours?
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:39 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 33):
They say the same about the 777-300ER, but they still order them by the shedload.  

But DL hasn't.
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0A340
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:09 pm

The 777-300ER has enjoyed a near monopoly for what it was. No longer, though.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:15 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 38):
But DL hasn't.

I'm using the "royal they".  
 
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 8:45 pm

Quoting 0A340 (Reply 39):
The 777-300ER has enjoyed a near monopoly for what it was. No longer, though.

I do not like the use of monopoly for such a situation. If a good product has the market to itself by being the right choice that is one situation.
A monopoly would allow you to sell your rubbish, because nobody would be aloud to buy something else.
 
swallow
Posts: 182
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:18 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 35):
If the A330-900 didn't exist, I'd be inclined to agree, but IMO the decision to choose the A330-900 for TATL ensured the A350-900 would win TPAC.

My point exactly. It was the 330NEO and 350 as a package that convinced DL.
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NYCAdvantage
Posts: 109
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:25 pm

Quoting JerseyFlyer (Reply 32):


Not really, Delta has RR on order for their 787s

True, but that is for 788, not the789, didn't Delta order 10 A330 HGW with GE CF6-80E1 they have a great relation with both of them RR & GE, if Delta selects to cancel their 787 order all together not only Boeing loses but GE goes down with them, I believe GE is a great friend of Delta, I personally don't count them out just yet.
 
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Stitch
Posts: 26596
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:17 pm

Quoting NYCAdvantage (Reply 43):
True, but that is for 788, not the 789,

Delta currently only has the 787-8 on order.

Quoting NYCAdvantage (Reply 43):
if Delta selects to cancel their 787 order all together not only Boeing loses but GE goes down with them...

GE is not the engine provider for that order so they have nothing to lose if it is cancelled.

In fact, they gain if it is cancelled because they'd order the 737 MAX and that has GE (CFM) power.
 
UALWN
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:43 pm

Quoting Stitch (Reply 40):
I'm using the "royal they".  

There's no "royal they." Only royal we.
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flyabr
Posts: 863
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 11:42 am

RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:03 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 35):
IMO the decision to choose the A330-900 for TATL ensured the A350-900 would win TPAC.

Although Boeing is publicly claiming the A350 won out because it met DL's delivery time line requirements. Boeing's response was to offer interim 77L lift until the 789s could be delivered...apparently that didn't sit well with DL, or that price/terms weren't as good as Airbus'.
 
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Stitch
Posts: 26596
Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2005 4:26 am

RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:06 am

Quoting UALWN (Reply 45):
There's no "royal they." Only royal we.

W'ever.

When I said "they", I meant every 777-300ER customer.



Quoting flyabr (Reply 46):
Although Boeing is publicly claiming the A350 won out because it met DL's delivery time line requirements. Boeing's response was to offer interim 77L lift until the 789s could be delivered...apparently that didn't sit well with DL, or that price/terms weren't as good as Airbus'.

Once DL chose the A330-900, I believe they went with the A350-900 over the 787-9 in fair part because of crew commonality (which extends to their A330-200s and A330-300s, as well).

[Edited 2014-12-06 16:28:50]
 
NYCAdvantage
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:56 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 44):



GE is not the engine provider for that order so they have nothing to lose if it is cancelled.

In fact, they gain if it is cancelled because they'd order the 737 MAX and that has GE (CFM) power.

I do not recall saying GE were order by NW ever on that 788 order.
How can you guarantee that if they cancel that order, they are going with the 737 MAX?
For what I know Delta goes with the best deal at hand.

The A339/350 order by them surprised me but after reading some of the details, it was a great deal, it would be
a mistake to under estimate Airbus.

You may be right Stitch but I still believe they will get some 789.
 
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Stitch
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RE: Delta Orders A330neo, A350 Aircraft Part 3

Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:29 am

Quoting NYCAdvantage (Reply 48):
How can you guarantee that if they cancel that order, they are going with the 737 MAX?

Well unless they want to forfeit whatever monies they have on deposit with Boeing for that order, they need to order the 737MAX or the 777X - and both platforms have GE power.

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