stealth777
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UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:34 am

I know EWR and SFO has been having some lovely weather (heavy rains and winds) the past 48 hours, but is there a reason why there has been at least three flights (UAL1483 on 03DEC14, UAL1284 on 03DEC14, and there was another flight on the 02Dec) that also made the stop. UAL1483 and 1284 were B739 ( I believe they were the ER models). I'm not sure if other airlines had planned stops for an east coast - west coast flights but even the UA flights that are making in nonstop are showing 7+ hour flight times between the city pairs westbound. Those are some long flights, but i'm curious if its just weather related or are there the departure delays out of EWR that are also adding to the lengthy flight times and fuel stops along the way. Lastly, if there is a scheduled stop along the way is there a crew change or just gas and go?

-Stealth
 
United1
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:57 am

Quite a few airlines are making fuel stops US for instance hasn't had a single PHL-SFO flight make it nonstop in a couple of days. VX had some diversions to ORD/LAS and B6 diverted a flight as well...the weather in SF is absolutely horrible and when you combine that with winds aloft there are bound to be some diversions.
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Max Q
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:36 am

That's what happens when you send a boy's aircraft to do a man's work.


We never had a problem with the 757.
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
aviatorcraig
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:49 am

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
That's what happens when you send a boy's aircraft to do a man's work.


We never had a problem with the 757.

No, you just hauled all that additional structural weight around for the other 363 days of the year!   
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INFINITI329
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:53 am

Quoting United1 (Reply 1):
VX had some diversions to ORD/LAS

VX 367 BOS-LAX diverted to PHX
 
strfyr51
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:01 pm

My old Compadre's @ SFO are saying the Winds are changing almost Hourly. Now they're shifting out of the South and from the East
and For SFO that's Havoc as the planes are landing to the south and the approached are over the City of Millbrae and South San Francisco
Flying down the side of a damn Hill. I'll bet Bay Tracon is having a FIT!!
 
bgm
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:58 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
That's what happens when you send a boy's aircraft to do a man's work.


We never had a problem with the 757.

That's what the WB operators crossing the Atlantic say about the 757...   
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:35 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
That's what happens when you send a boy's aircraft to do a man's work.
Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 3):
No, you just hauled all that additional structural weight around for the other 363 days of the year!
Quoting Bgm (Reply 6):
That's what the WB operators crossing the Atlantic say about the 757...

Lol

When was it, sometime last week, where every single UA 757 coming back from Europe stopped in YYR for some fuel.

Thenoflyzone
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usflyguy
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:37 pm

Did B6 have any fuels stops on any of their transcons? It seems like they used to divert quite often during the winter for fuel.
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roseflyer
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 1:45 pm

Quoting usflyguy (Reply 8):
Did B6 have any fuels stops on any of their transcons? It seems like they used to divert quite often during the winter for fuel.

All but one of JetBlue's flights from Boston to California over the past two days has made a fuel stop. For the most part JFK-California has been ok for JetBlue, but the only route from Boston to the west coast that they can make nonstop with their A320s is SEA with how bad the winds and weather have been the last few days.
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bhmdiversion
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:17 pm

The winds aloft are pretty heavy with a Jetstream over a big chunk of the country. Airlines are scheduling the fuel stop to allow pax connections to be rebooked or to let them know they are making a stop and can change their plans.
 
lhcvg
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:28 pm

Quoting thenoflyzone (Reply 7):

To be fair, though I don't have the numbers myself, I think we have to admit that this is still just a "x days a year" issue. IMHO if it were REALLY that significant operationally (say consistently 1-2 days a week or more) they might change strategy, but it clearly is not an insurmountable operational hurdle.
 
SonomaFlyer
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 3:53 pm

Airlines like UA run the numbers and long since have decided the diversions (on 757s TATL) and the 737s on transcon are worth it given the number of days per year they divert.

It's all a numbers game folks. The 767 or 757 or 787 of course would do a far better job on Transcons but with fuel costs the way they've been, the 739ER if far cheaper despite it not exactly being a pilot's favorite compared to the 757 RocketShip.

SFO has been a wild ride given the wind shifts, rain and weather. UA has their hands full.
 
757SanCam
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:05 pm

Does UA and any other airline lose money even on a full flight with these fuel stops that normally aren't needed? Factor in ground handling, fuel, time for crew, profit margins are not that much on a cross country flight, so what's the cost?
 
lhcvg
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:10 pm

Quoting 757SanCam (Reply 13):

In general it's the same point as above -- the airlines run the numbers, and figure that a 739 or 321 diverting x days a year is still cheaper than flying around all that dead weight on a 757 the other y days of the year. If that equation weren't favorable, you'd see the 757 sticking around much more than it is.
 
CHI787ORD
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:14 pm

I flew ORD-SFO on UA on the evening of the 2nd and our flight had a delayed departure of 2 hours. All of the SFO bound flights on the board had a delay of 1.5-2 hours.

[Edited 2014-12-04 09:14:48]
 
stealth777
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:47 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 5):

while the winds have been a bit crazy, it hasn't been that bad. On Tuesday (12/2) SFO was landing on the 19's and departing on the 10's. Same on Wednesday except for a period where we had aircraft also departing on the 19's but the heavies and some aircraft were still departing on the 10's. That made it quite interesting for timing of the departures as the departures from the 19's made the left turn to join the departures from the 10's, so the tower couldn't release the departures from the 10's until the departure from the 19's was past a certain point (not sure on how long the separation had to be).
 
united319
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:52 pm

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):

That's what happens when you send a boy's aircraft to do a man's work.

We never had a problem with the 757.

I agree for domestic operatons. My airline had very heavy tech stops the past week (and no it's not United). I pulled up KBOS-KSFO on flightaware a couple of days ago and the A32X for everyone on that route stopped in places like ORD, LAS, PHX, and SLC. UA's 738's were making the route but at a glacial 6h57m. The 753 and 752 that UA had operating the route were not only stopping, their flight time was shorter. I think UA was premature (as usual) to dump the sUA 752s. They were the backbone of the fleet and could do whatever they want (i.e. short runways like JAC, EGE, SNA and countle
UAL4Lifess other airports, they also can be profiable on a route like West Coast to DEN, they're perfect for Hawaii. And on SOME routes tey are good o EU, granted I think some of the routes are pushing it. Oh another, is that you can board from 2L so the F/A's can do their pre-deparures, etc = faster boarding times,

Anyway,


Stepping off soap box  
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USAirALB
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:04 pm

Indeed, several CLT-SFO flights have been diverted to FAT or MEM recently as well.

Quoting Max Q (Reply 2):
That's what happens when you send a boy's aircraft to do a man's work.

  
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tommy767
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:30 pm

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 3):

I'm willing to bet that for a lot of the winter UA 739 take weight penalties on transcons. That doesn't necessarily help the bottom line in making the route profitable.

Quoting united319 (Reply 17):
. The 753 and 752 that UA had operating the route were not only stopping, their flight time was shorter. I think UA was premature (as usual) to dump the sUA 752s. They were the backbone of the fleet and could do whatever they want (i.e. short runways like JAC, EGE, SNA and countle

As I said before, it was a very shortsighted decision to dump the 757s when the 739s are diverting on EWR-SFO -- and it's only early December. It's just a miserable experience for passengers all around.
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airzim
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:39 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 19):
I'm willing to bet that for a lot of the winter UA 739 take weight penalties on transcons. That doesn't necessarily help the bottom line in making the route profitable.

Quoting united319 (Reply 17):. The 753 and 752 that UA had operating the route were not only stopping, their flight time was shorter. I think UA was premature (as usual) to dump the sUA 752s. They were the backbone of the fleet and could do whatever they want (i.e. short runways like JAC, EGE, SNA and countle
As I said before, it was a very shortsighted decision to dump the 757s when the 739s are diverting on EWR-SFO -- and it's only early December. It's just a miserable experience for passengers all around.

Tired refrain.

The trade off for a few diversions a year on a few transcons versus operating with significant (~20%) lower operating costs year round network wide basis?

You don't have to go to Business School to realize this is a non brainer proposition,

Plus that's ignoring the on going maintenance and overhauls on those high cycle birds.
 
roseflyer
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:39 pm

Quoting united319 (Reply 17):
I agree for domestic operatons. My airline had very heavy tech stops the past week (and no it's not United). I pulled up KBOS-KSFO on flightaware a couple of days ago and the A32X for everyone on that route stopped in places like ORD, LAS, PHX, and SLC. UA's 738's were making the route but at a glacial 6h57m. The 753 and 752 that UA had operating the route were not only stopping, their flight time was shorter. I think UA was premature (as usual) to dump the sUA 752s. They were the backbone of the fleet and could do whatever they want (i.e. short runways like JAC, EGE, SNA and countle

I do not agree that UA was premature to dump the sUA 752s. A 739ER can burn 23% less block fuel with 8% fewer seats. Pilots and aviation followers usually don't care about fuel burn vs airplane capability, but the bean counters certainly do. 15% better CASM and lower maintenance cost absolutely justifies the occasional tech stop. For routes that need more range or better takeoff performance, UA has 738s and 73Gs that it can use. The 757 was built so that it could operate any route in the domestic United States to replace the 727. It is great at that, but unfortunately it caries more powerful engines and more structural weight than necessary to do that cost effectively. The 739ER is better for domestic ops and swapping to a smaller 737 with better performance.

Quoting 757SanCam (Reply 13):
Does UA and any other airline lose money even on a full flight with these fuel stops that normally aren't needed? Factor in ground handling, fuel, time for crew, profit margins are not that much on a cross country flight, so what's the cost?

Block time gate to gate for BOS-SFO is usually about 6 hrs 50min for UA. Air time for BOS-SFO is almost 7 hours the last couple of days. When you add 20 minutes for ground time (in good condtions), winds this bad are going to create a minimum 30 minute delay. Flow control into SFO rarely affects transcon flights with delays on the ground, but can cause some slowing en route. A fuel stop costs about one more hour. In general, when you are already 30-45 minutes late, an extra hour will result in almost everyone missing connections. It does cost a lot of money.
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tommy767
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 6:43 pm

Quoting airzim (Reply 20):
Plus that's ignoring the on going maintenance and overhauls on those high cycle birds.

Overstated. If things are so dire then most some facts.

How much extra profit in terms of cargo and passengers are dumped during the winter months on transcons because the 739ER is range handicapped?

If the sUA birds were such a problem there would have been no way in hell that 15 of them were reconfigured in the refreshed PS configuration.
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roseflyer
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:24 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 22):

Overstated. If things are so dire then most some facts.

How much extra profit in terms of cargo and passengers are dumped during the winter months on transcons because the 739ER is range handicapped?

The 739ER CASM is 15% better or more. They aren't blocking that many seats. They are taking the fuel stop. A fuel stop is the equivalent of a 1.5 hour delay. UA is well aware of the cost and impact of that delay. A 737 delay probably costs about $5,000 per hour. That is a lot of money when you look at the revenue associated with one flight, but when you factor fuel costs over the year, it is much better than 20% higher fuel costs. A 757 burns about $4000 of fuel per hour. A 737-900ER is closer to $3200 per hour. Those numbers are very approximate, but it does not take many flights at $800 per hour savings to justify the occasional fuel stop.

Cargo is easy to reroute on domestic flights. There are plenty of planes flying through ORD/DEN/IAH that can carry mail or other cargo. UA also has some 757-200s and 757-300s to move the cargo. I don't see that as a big revenue decline. Domestically, cargo only comprises about 2% of revenue. UA earns double that from food and alcohol sales.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
Okie
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:34 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 23):
Those numbers are very approximate, but it does not take many flights at $800 per hour savings to justify the occasional fuel stop

I easily understand the reasoning.
I just question the logistics of having excess fuel at the intermediate stops plays a role in where the refueling takes place?

Okie
 
fetzervalve
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:35 pm

flew PHL-SEA Tuesday - pilot said we'd be cruising at a lower than normal altitude due to turbulence for most of the flight. We took on more fuel in PHL but he didn't rule out a fuel stop if headwinds or turbulence got worse.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:42 pm

Quoting okie (Reply 24):

As do I. If you leave cargo behind, block seats off, and have 2x the take off and landing cycles, then I don't see how the 739ER can handle the route any better.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
jetblue1965
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:48 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 26):

As do I. If you leave cargo behind, block seats off, and have 2x the take off and landing cycles, then I don't see how the 739ER can handle the route any better.

That's like 10 days in the whole year. In the other 355, the 739ER will slaughter whatever CASM the gas-guzzling 752 can put up.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 7:51 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 27):

It's gas guzzling yet UA still flies the 757 on many transcons everyday? A bit of a double standard don't you think?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
jetblue1965
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:00 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 28):

It's gas guzzling yet UA still flies the 757 on many transcons everyday? A bit of a double standard don't you think?

That's why UA is actively pruning their 757 fleet while DL is sitting on their laurels with an average fleet age of a full 6 years older than UA/AA. Any older and I'll be seeing them at museum of natural history.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:04 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 29):
That's why UA is actively pruning their 757 fleet while DL is sitting on their laurels with an average fleet age of a full 6 years older than UA/AA. Any older and I'll be seeing them at museum of natural history.

Dude, com'on. You are embellishing. I'll gladly take a 30 year old DL 757 with AVOD than a new UA 739 with nothing.

Besides, quite a few of the sCO 757s are nearly 20 years old as well. Yet UA is retiring 757s that are of or near that age.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
jetblue1965
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:21 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 30):

Dude, com'on. You are embellishing. I'll gladly take a 30 year old DL 757 with AVOD than a new UA 739 with nothing.

This every-DL-plane-has-AVOD thing is such a myth. I flew DL 738 in late Oct, and the only thing the plane offered was Wi-Fi. No AVOD, no live TV, no streaming entertainment, not even power ports to charge my phone.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:42 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 31):
This every-DL-plane-has-AVOD thing is such a myth. I flew DL 738 in late Oct, and the only thing the plane offered was Wi-Fi. No AVOD, no live TV, no streaming entertainment, not even power ports to charge my phone.

Impossible. All DL 738s have overhead screens installed at a minimum.

And I never said all the planes have AVOD. Where are you gettin that from? The AVOD 757 I was just on from DTW-LAX had a usb to charge up the phone in addition to the AVOD.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
jetblue1965
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 8:45 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 32):

Impossible. All DL 738s have overhead screens installed at a minimum.

And I never said all the planes have AVOD. Where are you gettin that from? The AVOD 757 I was just on from DTW-LAX had a usb to charge up the phone in addition to the AVOD.

I didn't say no overhead screen. I said no AVOD and no live TV. It just had overhead screen with lovely NTSC-era colors. Instagram pre-filtered for us.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:12 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 33):

Oh geez. Overhead screens. Let's cry about it  

All DL 738 at least have wifi -- while pricey is still lightening fast.

Let's agree to disagree. You don't like DL and I don't like UA. The one thing I appreciate is how DL doesn't fly the 739 on premium transcons and while digging around flightaware (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm not finding any diversions for yesterday.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
roseflyer
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:20 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 34):
The one thing I appreciate is how DL doesn't fly the 739 on premium transcons and while digging around flightaware (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm not finding any diversions for yesterday.

DL had a diversion BOS-LAX for fuel. This is not a UA vs DL war. Every airline had fuel stops over the last few days. DL flies more 757s and has fewer routes out of BOS or SFO due to their hub locations, so they are not as affected, but yes they can be affected.
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airzim
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:20 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 22):

Quoting airzim (Reply 20):
Plus that's ignoring the on going maintenance and overhauls on those high cycle birds.

Overstated. If things are so dire then most some facts.

How much extra profit in terms of cargo and passengers are dumped during the winter months on transcons because the 739ER is range handicapped?

If the sUA birds were such a problem there would have been no way in hell that 15 of them were reconfigured in the refreshed PS configuration.

Actually it is you who are overstating the impact of a few diversion, or pax/cargo re-routes on the cumulative costs of flying the 757.

The PS birds are some of the lower cycled 757 fleet, have been reconfigured for a premium configuration and will remain for the most part on the JFK transcons (low cycle longer stage length). However, the sUA 757 that does BOS-SFO, will often go down to LAX, up to SEA, DEN etc. Whatever incremental gain you have in carrying capacity on a single longer segment, BOS-SFO, will be more than offset by the shorter legs where the 757 just destroys the cost model. This is true for all airlines, not just UA.

I'm not bashing sUAs fleet. The fact is they have significantly higher cycles over the sCO planes and don't have ETOPS (except for the PS birds) which make their flexibility less a significant contributing factor. Juxtapose that with the all of the 737-800s and close to 100% of the 737-900s which are all ETOPS the 737 has lots of flexibility.

As for service, the 737s are hardly dark. 90% of the 737-900s and 50% of the 737-800s have Wifi with free on demand entertainment on a PDA, 85% of the 737-800 and 100% of the 737-7/900 have DTV, with a large portion of the fleet with power enabled.

Regarding Cargo, freight doesn't care how it gets there.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:27 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 35):
DL had a diversion BOS-LAX for fuel.

Not seeing this. DL had a 738 that arrived with no stop yesterday:
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...1/history/20141203/1402Z/KBOS/KLAX

Quoting airzim (Reply 36):
Regarding Cargo, freight doesn't care how it gets there.

But how much revenue do they lose doing this?

Quoting airzim (Reply 36):
As for service, the 737s are hardly dark. 90% of the 737-900s and 50% of the 737-800s have Wifi with free on demand entertainment on a PDA, 85% of the 737-800 and 100% of the 737-7/900 have DTV, with a large portion of the fleet with power enabled.

Don't care for the PDA or the DTV product, so I avoid.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
jetblue1965
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:51 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 34):


Let's agree to disagree. You don't like DL and I don't like UA. The one thing I appreciate is how DL doesn't fly the 739 on premium transcons and while digging around flightaware (correct me if I'm wrong) I'm not finding any diversions for yesterday.

Actually UA doesn't fly 739 on any of their premium transcons. Check your facts.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 9:57 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 38):

By premium transcons I meant EWR/BOS/DCA/IAD anywhere to the West Coast in which they seem endless. If we were to talk about PS, then it's all 757.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
jetblue1965
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:06 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 39):

By premium transcons I meant EWR/BOS/DCA/IAD anywhere to the West Coast in which they seem endless. If we were to talk about PS, then it's all 757.

None of the EWR/BOS/DCA/IAD ones are "premium" at all. UA doesn't label them as such, and doesn't pretend that they're comparable to p.s. At most some of them have a slightly upgraded meal service, but the entire flight experience is virtually identical to any long domestic F.

And last time I checked, out of those 4 airports to anywhere in west coast (pacific time zone), I think DL only has BOS-LAX and nothing else. So yes, for most scenarios, I'll take a 5% chance of fuel stop on UA versus a 100% chance of connection on DL.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:10 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 40):
So yes, for most scenarios, I'll take a 5% chance of fuel stop on UA versus a 100% chance of connection on DL.

Well I highly doubt you'd ever consider flying DL anyway. Personally I don't mind the connections or going to JFK.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
jetblue1965
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:16 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 41):

Well I highly doubt you'd ever consider flying DL anyway. Personally I don't mind the connections or going to JFK.

Didn't I tell you I just flew DL back in late Oct ? I actually flew 7 segments on DL in 2014, revenue + award.

For me, redemption of miles is important, in which DL doesn't allow any partner F redemption. No amount of AVOD can convince me to switch from UA/AA when the best redemption option is KE J, when they're not blacked out.
 
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airzim
Posts: 1419
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:40 am

RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:20 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 41):
Well I highly doubt you'd ever consider flying DL anyway. Personally I don't mind the connections or going to JFK.
Quoting tommy767 (Reply 37):
Don't care for the PDA or the DTV product, so I avoid.

Love double standards. United is terrible and Delta is brilliant. Except when they're not, in which case, United is still terrible and Delta is brilliant.

If you can't argue the objective facts, just dive into subjectivity. "I prefer" "I don't care for" "I don't mind"

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 37):
Quoting airzim (Reply 36):
Regarding Cargo, freight doesn't care how it gets there.

But how much revenue do they lose doing this?

Tough to say, but it's likely negligible. Unless its perishable, it probably doesn't really matter.

[Edited 2014-12-04 14:23:52]
 
DualQual
Posts: 710
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:23 pm

Please don't feed the trolls. They just keep coming back.
There's no known cure for stupid
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:25 pm

Quoting airzim (Reply 43):
Love double standards

That's not a double standard, that's my preference. But unless I praise UA(CO) it will never be good enough for you.

Quoting airzim (Reply 43):

Tough to say, but it's likely negligible. Unless its perishable, it probably doesn't really matter.

No way. Admit that cargo capacity on the 739ER is complete garbage. It's a factor to the bottom line.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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Tigerguy
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RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:25 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 37):
Not seeing this. DL had a 738 that arrived with no stop yesterday:

Wednesday, no. Tuesday, yes.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...1/history/20141202/1402Z/KBOS/KPHX
http://flightaware.com/live/flight/D...1/history/20141202/2005Z/KPHX/KLAX
Good night, and keep watching the skis. Uh, skies.
 
Max Q
Posts: 8007
Joined: Wed May 09, 2001 12:40 pm

RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:34 pm

Quoting aviatorcraig (Reply 3):
No, you just hauled all that additional structural weight around for the other 363 days of the year!

Yes, but we always got that weight there.


Without stopping  
The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.


GGg
 
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airzim
Posts: 1419
Joined: Wed Jun 20, 2001 7:40 am

RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 10:55 pm

I shouldn't bother....

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 45):
That's not a double standard, that's my preference. But unless I praise UA(CO) it will never be good enough for you.

Precisely. Preference (subjective) over facts (objective). You're opinions are your opinions, but your facts are wrong.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 45):

No way. Admit that cargo capacity on the 739ER is complete garbage. It's a factor to the bottom line.

That's not what you asked. You wanted to know about displaced cargo because of schedule diverts or displacement, not 757 vs 737. Why are you changing the topic? Because it doesn't support your arguments?

However, it's pretty irrelevant conversation anyway. US domestic cargo is a fraction of the revenue picture on a given flight and generally low yielding discretionary market.

Also the "Entire" plane is part of the optimization calculation. If it's more profitable to carry freight over pax, they'll displace passengers. If its the other way around, the freight stays on the dock, and re-routed across the network on other flights.

It's really not nearly the big deal you make it out to be.
 
Thomaas
Posts: 661
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2014 10:52 pm

RE: UA Flts EWR-SFO Making Fuel Stops In DEN 03/04Dec

Thu Dec 04, 2014 11:14 pm

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 35):

DL had a diversion BOS-LAX for fuel. This is not a UA vs DL war. Every airline had fuel stops over the last few days. DL flies more 757s and has fewer routes out of BOS or SFO due to their hub locations, so they are not as affected, but yes they can be affected.

UA flies much more transcon flights than DL does, they have 2 hubs on each coast while DL only has JFK and LAX.

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