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rtalk25
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One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:22 pm

Has it been done in the past for a carrier to sell nonstops in one way without a return?

If possible, I was thinking perhaps the ULCCs in US would offer these such as routing an aircraft like PHL-ATL-LAX-PHL taking advantage of red eye returns and going with the tailwind, for example. I was on a Frontier flight out of TTN to PBI and overheard pax that fly one-ways out of LGA, EWR, TTN and ACY to FLL, PBI, wherever it's cheaper, and very flexible, Assuming there are enough pax flexible like that, maybe it's possible. Are there any imposed restrictions against this?
 
jfk777
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:24 pm

When SAA flew 744 from JFK to JNB its was nonstop south ward only.
 
Longhornmaniac
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:26 pm

QF did SYD-DFW nonstop due to the winds, but the return was DFW-BNE-SYD.

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adriaticflight
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:29 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Thread starter):
such as routing an aircraft like PHL-ATL-LAX-PHL

I suspect that some airlines in the US already do this with their scheduling in order to maximise aircraft useage and to efficiently move aircraft around the country. Of course another aircraft would be doing some routing to allow the LAX-ATL and PHL-ATL and ATL-PHL legs to be performed. There will be no restrictions other than what is the most efficient way of making money. I'm sure those who know the US aviation world will give better details.
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AM744
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:32 pm

AM currently does MEX-MTY-NRT-MEX. The return is nonstop.
 
masseybrown
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:36 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Thread starter):
Has it been done in the past for a carrier to sell nonstops in one way without a return?

Frontier is doing it in Cleveland today at $19 a pop.
 
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enilria
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:49 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Thread starter):

Has it been done in the past for a carrier to sell nonstops in one way without a return?

Carriers like ZK have done it before and I've seen it in West Virginia and Hawaii before. NW used to do it in markets like Montana and N Dakota.
 
AeroWesty
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:54 pm

I'm confused. Are you talking about:

1) An airline selling one-way tickets? (Certainly they can.) or
2) Only flying a certain routing one way, but not the other, like the QF and AM examples above?
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jfklganyc
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:09 pm

B6 flies nonstop bos to stt but stops in sju on way back.

They do this because the 320 can't get off the runway and make it to BOS

They don't even bother with JFK due to the plethora of airlines that fly nonstop with more poweful aircraft
 
rtalk25
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:28 pm

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
I'm confused. Are you talking about:

1) An airline selling one-way tickets? (Certainly they can.) or
2) Only flying a certain routing one way, but not the other, like the QF and AM examples above?

Both in a sense. An airline selling one-way nonstop tickets and flying certain routing one-way.

Say it was Spirit or Frontier, that could market to the LAX market, "nonstops to PHL* (* in small print, one-way only)", even if it didn't have a return nonstop or even any connection flight back home for them, where they'd have to fly back via another carrier.

[Edited 2014-12-05 09:30:45]
 
masseybrown
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:41 pm

Quoting MasseyBrown (Reply 5):
Frontier is doing it in Cleveland today at $19 a pop.

Disregard. I misunderstood the OP's point. Offering a single non-stop in one direction used to happen in the days when a lot of traffic would travel on one-stop through flights; and I agree with enilria that NW used to do it frequently, not just over their MSP-SEA routings but also over DCA-PIT-CLE-DTW-MKE-MSN-RST-MSP routes in the late 50's and early 60s.
 
UALFAson
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Reply 9):
Say it was Spirit or Frontier, that could market to the LAX market, "nonstops to PHL* (* in small print, one-way only)", even if it didn't have a return nonstop flight back home for them.

What would be the point? If there are enough passengers willing to pay a premium for a nonstop (versus a connection) in one direction, why would the airline not offer them a nonstop back as well? To not do so would risk the airline losing them to a competitor who does offer a nonstop. And while an airline may be stronger in one city than another, not 100% of the passengers are based in that city--the airline relies on pax originating on both ends of the route.

In your example, almost all of those people who flew to PHL are going to have to get back to LAX at some point, so why wouldn't NK or F9 offer a nonstop? Should they ignore the people who live in PHL who want to go to L.A.?

Generally speaking, the only time it's done is when shorter runway lengths, like STT and Hawaii (KOA?), and/or payload restrictions on long distance flights (e.g. U.S.-Australia and Middle East-U.S.) preclude nonstop service in both directions.
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MAH4546
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:16 pm

Cayam Airways flies MIA-CYB, but does not fly CYB-MIA.
a.
 
jetblue1965
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:27 pm

CX used to have some one-way tags like BNE-CNS or MEL-ADL and to the Middle East (something like DXB-RUH) ... not sure if they still have that practice anymore (obviously the Australian domestic tags can't carry local traffic)

AI loves doing triangular one-ways but reverse the direction on other days so they can serve both cities every day, and each city get nonstops on some days, while only offering the equivalent of 1 RT :

e.g. DEL-SYD-MEL-DEL 4x weekly then DEL-MEL-SYD-DEL 3x weekly
 
rtalk25
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:32 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 11):
In your example, almost all of those people who flew to PHL are going to have to get back to LAX at some point, so why wouldn't NK or F9 offer a nonstop? Should they ignore the people who live in PHL who want to go to L.A.?

I'd think the benefit would be for the fleet utilization of red-eye returns and winds that only positively affects operational costs one way obviously. For PHL, they'd market nonstop to ATL, for ATL they'd market nonstop to LAX, for LAX they'd market nonstop to PHL, so each market gets something to be marketed.

With Frontier and Spirit moving to big airports and flying in an one daily frequency style, in an other wise high frequency and multiple connection option choice routes by other carriers, it likely figures that many pax already are just purchasing one-ways on one carrier and one-way on another carrier, and maybe it's fine with attracting pax like that (with low fares), but that's just my guess. Some folks wouldn't really fly one-carrier one way and another carrier another way.
 
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redzeppelin
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 6:33 pm

There are a lot of triangular routings out there if you look for them. One that I am familiar with is the QX service to HLN and GTF: Depending on the day and time, they usually route either SEA-GTF-HLN-SEA, or SEA-GTF-HLN-GTF-SEA. So you can get non-stops HLN-SEA, but not in the reverse (Although it is same-plane direct service with only about 25 minutes on the ground). And yes, they do offer seats for the short hops between HLN and GTF if you ever find yourself needing a unique day trip. I think QX might have a few similar routes, but don't know them all.
 
phllax
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:05 pm

Quoting AM744 (Reply 4):
AM currently does MEX-MTY-NRT-MEX. The return is nonstop.

When did they switch from TIJ to MTY?
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:20 pm

Quoting AM744 (Reply 4):
AM currently does MEX-MTY-NRT-MEX. The return is nonstop.

I assume that's because of the altitude at MEX.

AA also does MIA-LPB but not LPB-MIA for the same reason.
 
zrs70
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:27 pm

UA used to fly BGR-PWM-ORD: ORD-BGR.

Loved those 727 flights from BGR to PWM!
21 year airliners.net vet! 2000-2021
 
SJCMSP
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:40 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 8):
B6 flies nonstop bos to stt but stops in sju on way back.

Same with SY to/from MSP.
 
AR385
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:56 pm

Quoting rtalk25 (Thread starter):
Has it been done in the past for a carrier to sell nonstops in one way without a return?
Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 7):
I'm confused. Are you talking about:

1) An airline selling one-way tickets? (Certainly they can.) or
2) Only flying a certain routing one way, but not the other, like the QF and AM examples above?

Exactly. I have that question too. In any case, many routings, due mainly to operational considerations can be triangular. MEX generates lots of examples. At one time when AR switched the route to an A310 from a 742 they did EZE-MEX-PTY-EZE then they moved to EZE-MEX-CUN-EZE

As far as wether they can sell one way, I used to travel in Europe as a young adult and if I wanted to go somewhere too long for a train ride I would buy a plane ticket. Many times the one way only fare was more expensive than the roundtrip. So I would buy the roundtrip and not use the return. And before I get any flak from people here, I would say that it´s the airline´s fault to offer one ways more expensive than roundtrips. I get that now the airline´s system may flag people who do this but I´m not a young man in Europe anymore.

Quoting phllax (Reply 16):
When did they switch from TIJ to MTY?

The 13th of September.
 
Yflyer
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 7:59 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 11):
Generally speaking, the only time it's done is when shorter runway lengths, like STT and Hawaii (KOA?),

You're thinking of OGG. United has a flight that goes ORD-OGG-KOA-ORD because the runway at OGG isn't long enough to allow an non-stop back to ORD.

Sometimes triangle routes are used where there isn't enough demand to one city, so the triangle routing allows them to serve two small cities with one plane. Back when Horizon served ACV and RDD the flights were routed something like LAX-ACV-RDD-LAX. There were also flights that went the opposite direction, so both cities had a mix of non-stops and one-stops in both directions.
 
Freshside3
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:07 pm

UA once had some trips that got flights into position for the following day......there was the OMA-LNK, which set the stage for some trip out of LNK the next morning. But no LNK-OMA.....I believe there was OAK-SFO in the early 1990s but not the other way around.

ET has IAD-ADD in one direction, but ADD-FCO-IAD, due to the altitude in ADD.

Although AC does have YVR-YYJ service on Jazz turboprops, if I recall correctly, there is an Airbus that goes YVR-YYJ to get the plane in position for the following day's YYJ-YYZ.
 
twal1011727
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:20 pm

Not to sound absurd but isn't every flight in the world a one-way non-stop?
 
uberflieger
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:24 pm

AA currently flies MIA to Curitiba, Brazil, but not CWB-MIA. You stop in Porto Alegre (POA) before taking off for Miami.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:26 pm

Quoting TWAL1011727 (Reply 23):
Not to sound absurd but isn't every flight in the world a one-way non-stop?

Notice the OP added the word, "only". I think he is interested in discussing routes where there is a non-stop in one direction but not the other.

Many circle routes fit this category, such as those done due to runway performance issue. MIA-LPB-VVI-MIA, MEX-MTY-NRT-MEX and NW's old SEA-OGG-KOA-SEA are examples.

IIRC, for a short time in the 1970s or 1980s Western did MSP-HNL non-stop but not the other direction (or vice versa).

At times AS has done SEA-SIT but not SIT-SEA. I seem to recall HA once doing LIH-ITO but not ITO-LIH (again, or vice verse, I don't recall).

Air California did a few at various times too, stuff like SAN-SJC but not SJC-SAN or PSP-SJC but not SJC-PSP.
 
Gr8Circle
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:34 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 13):
AI loves doing triangular one-ways but reverse the direction on other days so they can serve both cities every day, and each city get nonstops on some days, while only offering the equivalent of 1 RT :

e.g. DEL-SYD-MEL-DEL 4x weekly then DEL-MEL-SYD-DEL 3x weekly

Yes, AI has been doing it for years on many of their routes.....e.g. to the ME, to MRU (vis Seychelles one way), to SIN (via KUL one way)......and quite a few more....
 
Bluebird191
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 8:47 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 13):
CX used to have some one-way tags like BNE-CNS or MEL-ADL

The MEL-ADL tag has been dropped in favour of flying direct to ADL both ways - happened witin the last few months, The BNE-CNS tag definitely still happens - IIRC this tag was 4x weekly and a CNS-BNE tag wad 3x weekly (HKG-BNE-CNS-HKG and HKG-CNS-BNE-HKG), but now that CX are daily on HKG-BNE-HKG, HKG-BNE-CNS-HKG is 4x weekly, with the HKG-BNE sector being a redeye with the return sectors to HKG being dayligt flights.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:01 pm

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 25):
Many circle routes fit this category, such as those done due to runway performance issue. MIA-LPB-VVI-MIA, MEX-MTY-NRT-MEX and NW's old SEA-OGG-KOA-SEA are examples.

I think KLM does AMS-SXM-CUR-AMS. Because of the runway at SXM it is not possible to fly nonstop SXM-AMS. It also allows them to use one large frame to serve both destinations.
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zrs70
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:04 pm

And of course there is BA: LCY-SNN-JFK-LCY
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zippyjet
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 9:56 pm

I believe back in the 80's there was a Piedmond nonstop Fokker 100 flight from BWI to MIA that didn't do the return nonstop. I'm not sure the who, when , what where or why of this. And even further back when BWI was BAL/Friendship there was an Eastern or National Non Stop to MIA that originatedout of either LGA or BOS. The return leg was nonstop from MIA to either LGA or BOS bypassing Baltimore. That may have been an instance of aircraft range and headwinds heading south.
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jetblue1965
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:02 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 29):
And of course there is BA: LCY-SNN-JFK-LCY

Do they sell any SNN-JFK tickets on this ? if not Then it should just be counted as tech stop.
 
Beechtobus
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:37 pm

BA used to route LHR-SEA-YVR-LHR if I'm not mistaken.
 
rwessel
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 10:55 pm

I spent some time working in Hawaii in the 80s, and had to do some inter-island commuting. The airline I used ran a loop through several of the islands.
 
stratacruiser
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:02 pm

KE used to fly ICN-BOS-IAD-ICN, but dropped BOS about 10-12 years ago.

Dave
 
777way
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:06 pm

PIA fly New York-Lahore nonstop, while the routing to JFK is via Manchester.
 
Samurai 777
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:49 pm

AC used to fly SYD-YVR, but had to go SYD-HNL-YVR due to headwinds. It was using A340-300s at the time. If AC had ordered a bunch more A340-500s (it did have a few, but used them mainly on flights between YYZ and Asian destinations like HKG), then that would not have happened. Now that AC has 777-200LRs and 777-300ERs (as for the -300ERs, probably weight restrictions might be needed, but I don't know) in its fleet, stopping in HNL is no longer necessary. This probably saves AC quite a bit of money and of course, passengers and probably also crew members don't have to deal with the circus of having to get off the plane, get their baggage, go through customs, and recheck their baggage before getting back on the plane to continue towards YVR. My dad told me that's the kind thing he had to deal with as a passenger on these flights to/from SYD.
 
Capt.Fantastic
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:20 am

Back in the '80s, there were quite a few one-way non-stops. I recall Braniff advertising non-stop service from PDX to M/CI, but the return was MCI-XXX-PDX. In fact, Braniff had quite a few of these both domestic and international: One such international route was PTY-IAD: the return trip stopped in MIA and/or JFK. I believe LAX-BOG was also one-way; please correct me if I'm mistaken.

TWA had a few triangle routes between JFK and Europe in the latter years of their 707 ops. JFK-GVA-VIE-JFK is one example.
 
22886
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:25 am

Biman do it on their flights to London. The flight routes ZYL-DAC-LHR-ZYL, the majority of passengers are travelling to/from Sylhet (ZYL) but there is a stop in DAC on the outbound sector because ZYL doesn't have the fuelling facilities to fill up a 777 with fuel to London.
 
LH707330
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 2:59 am

The southern Alaska milk run is an example of this: AS sends a 737from Seattle to Juneau (IIRC), and then goes south through Petersburg, Wrangell, and a few others before going back to Seattle. Any residents of these towns have one option to get out, and only in one direction.
 
S75752
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 3:21 am

Quoting freshside3 (Reply 22):

ET has IAD-ADD in one direction, but ADD-FCO-IAD, due to the altitude in ADD.

I was about to say that one but you got it before I could!

Is the FCO-IAD 5th freedom?
 
mhkansan
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 4:55 am

Quoting uberflieger (Reply 24):
AA currently flies MIA to Curitiba, Brazil, but not CWB-MIA. You stop in Porto Alegre (POA) before taking off for Miami.

AA also flies MIA-LPB-VVI-MIA on the 757 for performance reasons. Fully loaded 757 can't make it back to MIA without payload restrictions. It also allows AA to serve both Bolivian markets with one daily flight.

In the same sense, OO Flies DFW-MEI-PIB-DFW as a turn, and PIB-MEI-DFW and return as a RON on behalf of AA. These are the only non-hub through flights that I can think of at AA.
 
grimey
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:19 am

EI used to do DUB-SNN-JFK-DUB this was due to government rules (I think every airline had to stop off in SNN) however with the change in regulations and the introduction of the A330 which allowed fully loaded take off from Dublin to basically anywhere in America this is now a thing of the past. I don't think the B747 could take off fully loaded from DUB but the return flight from JFK was within limits to land at DUB
 
Viscount724
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:29 am

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 31):
Quoting zrs70 (Reply 29):
And of course there is BA: LCY-SNN-JFK-LCY

Do they sell any SNN-JFK tickets on this ? if not Then it should just be counted as tech stop.

SNN is a tech stop only. And passengers on the earliest flight preclear US customs/immigration during the SNN stop. The preclearance facility is closed when the later flight operates so those passengers have to clear on arrival at JFK.

Quoting Beechtobus (Reply 32):
BA used to route LHR-SEA-YVR-LHR if I'm not mistaken

Yes, BA operated some flights on triangualr routings LHR-SEA-YVR-LHR and others LHR-YVR-SEA-LHR for a while. I flew on both once or twice. That didn't last very long before they split SEA and YVR into separate flights.
 
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cv990Coronado
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:01 am

Varig used to fly GIGJNBCPTGIG with a DC 10 in the 80's - 90's. This was due the fact that it was restricted ex JNB for payload (Hot and High). They also did the same before that with a 707. Initially the 707 operated GIGLADJNBCPTGIG but the LAD was dropped for political reasons.
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747WanSui
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:20 am

During the mid-2000s, Air China had a rather odd arrangement for its Beijing-San Francisco flight: CA985 made a stop in Shanghai before going to SFO, but CA986 went straight to PEK without touching PVG. Now, however, both 985 and 986 no longer touch PVG.
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vv701
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:23 pm

Quoting rwessel (Reply 33):
I spent some time working in Hawaii in the 80s, and had to do some inter-island commuting. The airline I used ran a loop through several of the islands.

In geographic situations like this commuting in all its manifestations can determine the island hops and their direction. Here in the UK a similar situation exists in the Orkney Islands.

Loganair routes (LOG312) in the morning Kirkwall-Westray-Papa Westray- Kirkwall. With no Secondary (High) School on Westray the regular passengers on this flight are the those going to school on Papa Westray. So the flight is timed to get the children to school with a scheduled Westray departure of 08:46 and a Papa Westray arrival at 08:48. The return mid afternoon flight (LOG317) routes in the opposite direction, Kirkwall-Papa Westray (d. 15:21)-Westray (a. 1523)-Kirkwall, primarily flying the morning passengers back home.

Similarly Loganair operates a Kirkwall-Stronsay-Sanday-Kirkwall flight in the morning (LOG313) and reverse the routing for their afternoon flight (LOG318).
 
nkops
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 12:42 pm

I remember US doing PIT-PKB-MGW-PIT in the B1900.. and I believe also PIT-PKB-CKB-PIT...

This use to happen a lot with smaller cities.
Turn left heading 080 contact departure
 
rutankrd
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:22 pm

Pakistan has traffic rights Manchester - JFK however the return flight go US-Pakistan direct .
The Manchester stop is primarily to meet US screening standards
 
USAirALB
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RE: One Way Nonstops Only?

Sat Dec 06, 2014 1:23 pm

I think TW used to do some Hawaii destination from STL one way, however I can't remember if it was OGG or HNL.
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Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos