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TS-IOR
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:43 pm

What about freight to and from DFW ? If significant than could save the balance...
 
CALMSP
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sat Dec 06, 2014 6:43 pm

The only way an A380 flying 15 hours making money on cargo is if it is a small product at the highest of yields. You simply cannot pack a 380 full of cargo on that distance, let alone with that many LD3 containers being used for baggage.

EK as a cargo player is in IAH where they send their freighter.
 
PanAm1971
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:33 pm

I know this is a difficult concept for some... but to grow market share you have to have a product people want. As was stated-the money is on the high end traveler. Of course a 34% load factor is a $$$ loser no matter how many highend travelers you get aboard. But, if they can hang in there, EK's may lure away high end travelers from other metal and use economy of scale to lure the lower end market segments. It's not a bad idea actually. The question is-how long can EK keep the A380 going on load factors like that before they start to sweat it?

[Edited 2014-12-06 11:45:40]

[Edited 2014-12-06 11:47:24]

[Edited 2014-12-06 11:48:25]
 
AABB777
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:35 pm

Keep in mind that while QR is a oneworld member, they do not codeshare with AA on DFW-DOH (neither does EY on DFW-AUH). That limits the feed QR's DFW flight gets from AA. Booking systems will route some AA pax via QR's ORD flight that does have an AA code. I've seen this happen with multiple cities that would connect over DFW much better but instead are routed through ORD (example: AUS, OKC and more).
 
jetblue1965
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sat Dec 06, 2014 7:56 pm

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 103):

Code share or not, the 80% LF that QR achieved so early (2nd best after BA, which is JV'ed) is a testament that FFs have self selected into the service, even if it means using third party booking engines that will allow the interline to be stitched together
 
KD5MDK
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:20 pm

If cargo alone made a flight profitable, why wouldn't a cargo company take the route and not have to pay the excess costs of flight attendants, gate rentals, etc? It purely doesn't make sense.
 
deutronium
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:33 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 63):
People need to quit falling for the LF game. Do we know if the F and C class seats are empty? Those seats are the ones that drive profit. Coach may be sparse but if C and F are pretty full, plus cargo to cover the fewer Y passengers, they may be doing ok.

..and if that's true, they could just convert a few 777s to almost all first class suites and business and have plenty of room for cargo sort of like what Singapore Airlines did with their all business A345s
 
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Ncfc99
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sat Dec 06, 2014 9:38 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 95):
Quoting YouGeeElWhy (Reply 94):

I wasn't referring to that. I was talking about claims that EK was 100% in Y for 21 days continuously

No claims of 100%, the claim was close to 100%. See below.

Quoting LaneDFW (Reply 85):
EK has been running close to 100% in Y class for the last 3 weeks

This may be seen as splitting hairs, but it is something that really bugs the hell out of me and is how untruths turn into a.net fact. When you are referencing someone else's quote, please ensure you quote correctly to ensure the correct meaning is clear. The exclusion of the word 'close' changes things immensely in this particular example.

Apologies, rant over.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting AABB777 (Reply 103):

Keep in mind that while QR is a oneworld member, they do not codeshare with AA on DFW-DOH (neither does EY on DFW-AUH). That limits the feed QR's DFW flight gets from AA. Booking systems will route some AA pax via QR's ORD flight that does have an AA code. I've seen this happen with multiple cities that would connect over DFW much better but instead are routed through ORD (example: AUS, OKC and more).
Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 104):
Code share or not, the 80% LF that QR achieved so early (2nd best after BA, which is JV'ed) is a testament that FFs have self selected into the service, even if it means using third party booking engines that will allow the interline to be stitched together

Ive had the pleasure of flying QR out of DFW twice already (with a third time coming in January). I couldnt help but notice (via spotting bag tags) that the number of connections beyond DFW were few and far between on the days I flew them.

This is a topic Ive brought up before, AA refuses to put their code on the QR and EY flights out of DFW. I don't know why. Besides that, QR has achieved high loads soon. I don't expect EY to have the same luck at DFW without the AA code.

I do think all three can achieve a harmony at DFW, but the 380 is overkill in this market.
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hilram
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:26 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 108):
Ive had the pleasure of flying QR out of DFW twice already (with a third time coming in January). I couldnt help but notice (via spotting bag tags) that the number of connections beyond DFW were few and far between on the days I flew them.

Out of curiousity: Does QR fly a 788, a 772LR or a 773ER out of Dallas ?
Flown on: A319, 320, 321, 332, 333, 343 | B732, 734, 735, 736, 73G, 738, 743, 744, 772, 77W | CRJ9 | BAe-146 | DHC-6, 7, 8 | F50 | E195 | MD DC-9 41, MD-82, MD-87
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sat Dec 06, 2014 10:41 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 109):
Out of curiousity: Does QR fly a 788, a 772LR or a 773ER out of Dallas ?

Its a combo of 77L and 77W depending on the day.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
Planesmart
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sun Dec 07, 2014 12:03 am

Interesting to see how the popularity or otherwise tracks in later months, though bums on seats and profit have only a limited correlation in the airline business.

In late November, I had a scheduled visit to Dallas, so dropped off three generations in Sydney (economy), and flew with Qantas (biz). Instead of returning to re-join the family as planned, needed to travel on to Dubai, so got to sample the flight firsthand.

Business class was close to full, and I presume first was too, as an acquaintance was sure he would be upgraded, but wasn't.

Didn't do an economy walk around, but the front of the cabin seemed well populated.
 
airDFW
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:03 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 108):
This is a topic Ive brought up before, AA refuses to put their code on the QR and EY flights out of DFW. I don't know why. Besides that, QR has achieved high loads soon. I don't expect EY to have the same luck at DFW without the AA code.

Could it be they want their own flight to LHR and BA out to India handle the pax?
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:42 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 70):
My #1 question is how is EY doing on the route.

Well, Etihad announced back in October that they were increasing the frequency of DFWAUH from 3 weekly to daily before the inaugural flight even commenced last week, due to strong forward bookings.

http://www.etihad.com/en-us/about-us...as-result-of-strong-market-demand/

Quoting gdg9 (Thread starter):

One thing that I find interesting in this whole report, and a topic that hasn't been discussed yet, is how the LFs for KLM appear to be pretty strong in the mid 70's range. I would like someone to shed more light on that one, because if anything, many of us predicted that the advent of QR would cause KL to be the first to blink.
 
alfa164
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:08 am

Quoting rojo (Reply 93):
If DL did block seats for cargo needs, the equation will be worst because it is well know that balancing a 767's with very heavy cargo,

Maybe you think it would be worse, but apparently DL doesn't. I have flown LIM-ATL numerous times, and there have almost always been restrictions due to cargo. When the cargo (such as fish, veggies, flowers, etc) is very time-sensitive, that will happen on many flights.

Quoting Canadairjet (Reply 97):

Long time reader, but never posted. I had to post on this one. As a former EK 777 pilot that flew the 777 to DFW numerous times because I grew up in the metroplex.....the reason for the upgrade to the 380 was purely to give EY and QR the finger in laymen's terms. The planning department at EK tried to convince TC not to put the 380 on the route cause it would never make money. It is as simple as that. There are a lot of ego's in the ME  

   Thank you for that input. That is pretty much what many of us had suspected.
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MAH4546
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:19 am

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 87):
DL LIM-ATL is an example of flight than go out with next to zero pax and still make a profit. Has its belly full to the brim with Asparagus……in fact they routinely block seats due to the cargo needs.

No. ATLLIM cannot go out empty and profit. And it in fact doesn't go out empty.

Quoting yellowtail (Reply 87):
For many years KL IAH-AMS with a combi was an example of flight that could work with cargo alone.

I believe AS has some examples in Alaska as well.

Apples and oranges. Those are operated by combi planes for a reason; and even still, those passenger seats need to be filled at reasonable fares.

Alaska is definitely unique in that the stage lengths are short and the fares are high, so yes, low loads can be supported, but it's because of the fares are high.

Quoting rojo (Reply 61):
I've read many times in this forum people claiming that passenger airlines can make a flight profitable on freight alone. I would love to see example of how a passenger airline makes a flight profitable on freight alone when claims like this appear in this forum

People can't provide examples because there is no such thing as a passenger flight that can go out empty and profit on freight. Now of course, freight can make some markets that would have low loads work (Santiago is a great example - many flights will often only go out two-thirds full but cargo traffic is very lucrative).
a.
 
32andBelow
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sun Dec 07, 2014 2:24 am

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 115):
Apples and oranges. Those are operated by combi planes for a reason; and even still, those passenger seats need to be filled at reasonable fares.

Alaska is definitely unique in that the stage lengths are short and the fares are high, so yes, low loads can be supported, but it's because of the fares are high.

The mail is also subsidized and the carrier gets much more than it is worth.
 
PITrules
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:32 am

Its a bit amusing this "do passenger airlines make money on freight alone" argument. Like the passenger world, its not as if all freight is equal. It can vary like a Spirit passenger to an Emirates first class passenger. UPS broke even on their 727 operations by carrying only one can. So if Cathay Pacific carries mostly UPS cans in their 777 bellies from HKG-LAX, which happens all the time, it is absolutely a profitable flight no matter who or who little is upstairs. Carrying asparagus from Lima, well not so much.
FLYi
 
airbazar
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sun Dec 07, 2014 1:48 pm

Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 63):
People need to quit falling for the LF game. Do we know if the F and C class seats are empty? Those seats are the ones that drive profit.

Take this with a grain of salt: My company has a strong presence in Dallas and a few cities in India. We send people between the two on EK very often. We buy discounted J seats but are often upgrade to F at the check-in. You be the judge.

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 76):

We have 12 months of downward trending data that have not been close to supporting an A380. Even when load factors were high it was with an aircraft half its size. There is no waiting necessary. The facts are clear.

  
 
Flightsimboy
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sun Dec 07, 2014 3:29 pm

Quoting Canadairjet (Reply 97):
Long time reader, but never posted. I had to post on this one. As a former EK 777 pilot that flew the 777 to DFW numerous times because I grew up in the metroplex.....the reason for the upgrade to the 380 was purely to give EY and QR the finger in laymen's terms. The planning department at EK tried to convince TC not to put the 380 on the route cause it would never make money. It is as simple as that. There are a lot of ego's in the ME
Quoting alfa164 (Reply 114):
Thank you for that input. That is pretty much what many of us had suspected.

Could this be the simple reason some routes are being upgraded to the A380, some going double daily (even with the A380) just to give an impression that all is going so well? Where can actual figures be obtained from to validate these numbers?
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CALMSP
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:05 pm

Quoting PITrules (Reply 117):

I'm just curious how you would know this. One ULD on a 727 breaks even for UPS? Thats either the highest yielding piece of cargo or misinformation.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sun Dec 07, 2014 6:27 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 118):
Take this with a grain of salt: My company has a strong presence in Dallas and a few cities in India. We send people between the two on EK very often. We buy discounted J seats but are often upgrade to F at the check-in. You be the judge.

I have clients in Boston and Seattle who do the same thing with EK and they don't even a 380 or another ME3. If you think thats specifically a DFW, you've missed the mark.

Ill be the first to say the 380 is large for DFW given QR and EY are there, but one month of data is useless.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
PITrules
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Sun Dec 07, 2014 7:50 pm

Quoting CALMSP (Reply 120):

I'm just curious how you would know this. One ULD on a 727 breaks even for UPS? Thats either the highest yielding piece of cargo or misinformation.

Generally speaking, the UPS volume that reaches an airplane is the highest yielding in their system. And they ship a LOT internationally as belly freight.
FLYi
 
airbazar
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:11 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 121):
I have clients in Boston and Seattle who do the same thing with EK and they don't even a 380 or another ME3. If you think thats specifically a DFW, you've missed the mark.

I never said that BOS and SEA are different so we're in agreement. EK won't be able to serve secondary U.S. cities once the smallest aircraft in their fleet becomes the 77W unless they're willing to take huge losses. That's the point I'm trying to make. BOS manages to limp along with 60% LF because there is no EY and QR. If one of those decides to start service to BOS, EK's LF will drop just like in DFW. Likewise for SEA. Personally I think EK bit more than they can chew when they canceled the A359. All of these cities are A359 cities, not A380 cities.
 
rojo
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:26 pm

Quoting drerx7 (Reply 99):
They didn't drop the route... in fact it's seasonally 10x weekly.

Didn't KL give the route to privatair at some point and operated B737's that do not take ULD's?
I am talking mainline KL with Cargo capable aircraft
 
CALMSP
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:34 pm

Quoting rojo (Reply 124):

its gone back and forth. over the past few years the second flight has been a BBJ, 767-300, and the 74M.
 
texdravid
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:36 pm

Given the large Indian subcontinent diaspora in the DFW metroplex, load factors on routes ex DFW-xxx-India are going to be highly seasonal. The routes to the Indian subcontinent are for families traveling to and fro their home cities/countries, and not really for business reasons. Hence, October is school time and not much family traveling is occurring.

Now, the Christmas holidays and spring break and of course, the summer holidays May-August will be completely different. Every day some Patel, Reddy, Singh, Kumar, and Pillai will be traveling with 5 family members to DEL, BOM, HYD, MAA and BLR, etc.

Moreover, this entire thread is useless, IMHO, given the one month cherrypicked by the OP. Does the OP or others have other motives?

Hmmmm, me thinks a lot of posters just don't want DFW to do well or somehow doesn't "deserve" the A380 or ME3 carriers in general and wants DFW to go back to its historic roots as DFW "regional" airport circa 1975. Guess what, it isn't happening.
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Sooner787
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:52 pm

Quoting texdravid (Reply 126):
Every day some Patel, Reddy, Singh, Kumar, and Pillai will be traveling with 5 family members to DEL, BOM, HYD, MAA and BLR, etc.

Have you been peeking into out reservation system? LOL  
 
a380787
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:15 pm

Quoting texdravid (Reply 126):
Given the large Indian subcontinent diaspora in the DFW metroplex, load factors on routes ex DFW-xxx-India are going to be highly seasonal. The routes to the Indian subcontinent are for families traveling to and fro their home cities/countries, and not really for business reasons. Hence, October is school time and not much family traveling is occurring.

Your argument doesn't necessarily hold because we're not comparing October to summer or the holidays. The key statistic is what YoungDon shown in reply 9 :

Quoting YoungDon (Reply 9):

Looking at the statistics for October 2013, EK had 7,478 pax outbound and 6,758 pax inbound, compared to 6,676 outbound and 5,559 pax inbound for October 2014. That's off about 11% from 2013 outbound and 17% inbound.

Even if EK didn't change the plane type, their LF would've worsened.
 
YouGeeElWhy
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:21 pm

Quoting texdravid (Reply 126):
Hmmmm, me thinks a lot of posters just don't want DFW to do well or somehow doesn't "deserve" the A380 or ME3 carriers in general and wants DFW to go back to its historic roots as DFW "regional" airport circa 1975. Guess what, it isn't happening.

I think most people are pragmatic about DFW however just like in life you have people in the extreme view point that are the loudest.

That being said the pragmatic view is something like the M3 are here to stay, but maybe the A380 is too much plane. It does not take one month of data to see that, but rather common sense. The question is would EK keep the A380 on the route if the LF from Oct 14 - Oct 15 is 60%, most likely, but if it is less than 50% then it is hard to see them doing that in perpetuity.

It is more important for DFW to have the M3 than A380s. We need competition not shiny hardware.

[Edited 2014-12-08 11:22:48]
 
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enilria
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:21 pm

Quoting adamh8297 (Reply 92):

Quoting enilria (Reply 39):
On local traffic I'm sure EK is winning by a lot.

Good point - I wonder how much traffic to Mexico (especially MEX/GDL/MTY) QR is transferring to AA on the route.

Not just Mexico, Latin America, and Western USA. I hear AA also ended their interline agreement with EK at QR's behest which probably took EK by surprise.

Quoting YouGeeElWhy (Reply 94):
They upgraded because their 77L J hard product is pretty woeful compared to the QR and EY J hard product. Also the Y seat is more comparable to the QR 9 across Y seat on the EK A380.

Perhaps, but they rolled snake eyes on that gamble.
 
Flighty
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:25 pm

Quoting texdravid (Reply 126):
Given the large Indian subcontinent diaspora in the DFW metroplex, load factors on routes ex DFW-xxx-India are going to be highly seasonal. The routes to the Indian subcontinent are for families traveling to and fro their home cities/countries, and not really for business reasons. Hence, October is school time and not much family traveling is occurring.

Now, the Christmas holidays and spring break and of course, the summer holidays May-August will be completely different. Every day some Patel, Reddy, Singh, Kumar, and Pillai will be traveling with 5 family members to DEL, BOM, HYD, MAA and BLR, etc.

Moreover, this entire thread is useless, IMHO, given the one month cherrypicked by the OP. Does the OP or others have other motives?

A 38% LF is an insurmountable data point. No money is being made, in that month or any other month taking into account the deep hole they are in. VFW flows Dallas (let alone 2-stops) to India, time inconsistent, would be among the world's very lowest RASM traffic. A lot of the routes are over 20k miles roundtrip. In January I am seeing roundtrips DFW-BLR at $860 maybe cheaper. Inclusive of taxes... so that's 3 cent yield or so. Emirates, Etihad, and American/BA are price matching at the 3 cent yield level. Oil has gotten cheaper, but this is still unmistakably a bloodbath.
 
jayunited
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:51 pm

Quoting par13del (Reply 98):
Well they were using Boeing a/c on the route and they upgraded capacity to the A380, there was a thread on the upgrade, so now folks are reviewing the results, nothing wrong there, let's remember that they have been on the route for over a year so should know whether the upgrade was warranted.

But the upgrade to the A380 was not warranted if they were averaging a 74% load factor as some have suggested using the 77L they should have left the 77L on the route. I honestly believe EK up gaged the route due to the fact that they have so many A380 and they are still taking delivery of more and they need to find a place to send them. I think the 38% load factor can also be attributed to the fact that continues to aggressively expand in the U.S.. However Dubai and the Middle East are not top tourist destinations for people living in America which in a way limits EK and the other Middle East carriers options to customers traveling home to visit family living in the Middle East or vise versa family living in America and customers who are traveling to India and/or Africa. I think both U.S. and Asian carriers and their alliances have done a good job defending their South East Asian market share from EK.

I think in time the ME3 and especially EK will learn that the U.S. is not Europe EK has had a major impact on European airlines market share in India parts of Africa and South East Asia and Australia. While here in America they have had an impact on the U.S. to India market and the U.S. to Middle East they haven't had much if any impact in other international markets from the U.S.. EK in my opinion believes that from America DXB can emulate LHR and BA/AA with departures from almost every major airport. There was an article out last month or either in October where Tim Clarke was talking about sending more A380's to the U.S. while at the same time expanding nonstop service to even more cities here in the U.S. But I believe EK will realize that DXB is not LHR as it pertains to travel to/from the U.S. and that together with the other ME carriers as they continue to expand they are getting close to the saturation point and soon their flights will start to cannibalize each other especially if Ek continues to move A380 into U.S. markets.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:02 pm

Quoting YouGeeElWhy (Reply 129):
That being said the pragmatic view is something like the M3 are here to stay, but maybe the A380 is too much plane.

This is what it boils down to.
FOR THE LOVE OF GOD BRING BACK THE PAYWALL!!!!
 
jayunited
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:10 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 133):
Quoting YouGeeElWhy (Reply 129):
That being said the pragmatic view is something like the M3 are here to stay, but maybe the A380 is too much plane.

This is what it boils down to.

True but the A380 isn't going anywhere here is the link to the article I referenced in my post it is from November 14, 2014 basically it states EK plans to send even more A380's to the U.S. within the next 2 years as they continue to take delivery of that fleet type.

http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-as-superjumbos-pour-over-atlantic

In my opinion JFK and LAX are probably the 2 markets that really need an A380 I think most other markets would be fine and have acceptable load factors with the 77L or the 77W.
 
YouGeeElWhy
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:18 pm

Does someone know how many EK A380s are dedicated to their US operations?
 
airbazar
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:36 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 132):
But the upgrade to the A380 was not warranted if they were averaging a 74% load factor as some have suggested using the 77L they should have left the 77L on the route.

I agree. The problem is they don't have available 77L's. They barely have 77W's. A380 in DFW is either a gimmick or the only available type they have for the route.
 
Tdan
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:29 pm

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 115):
No. ATLLIM cannot go out empty and profit. And it in fact doesn't go out empty.

   It goes out quite full year-round actually. The cargo justifies a widebody vs. a narrowbody on the route as it more than pays for the upgauge and requires zero incremental PAX to break-even. Cargo helps PAX routes at the margin only. If cargo was so lucrative that zero PAX were necessary, airlines would fly a freighter on the route and not a PAX aircraft.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 115):
Alaska is definitely unique in that the stage lengths are short and the fares are high, so yes, low loads can be supported, but it's because of the fares are high.

   Other remote routes are the same way. Break-even LFs are often very low, but it's largely a function of the fares being very high in addition to lucrative cargo.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 115):
People can't provide examples because there is no such thing as a passenger flight that can go out empty and profit on freight. Now of course, freight can make some markets that would have low loads work (Santiago is a great example - many flights will often only go out two-thirds full but cargo traffic is very lucrative).

China, Brazil, SIN, NRT, HKG, ICN, LIM, etc are the same way. However, SCL tends to have higher relative PAX yields (than LIM for example), so break even (as well as actual LFs) can be lower but routes still profitable. Same analogy can be made for PVG vs. HKG, NRT vs. ICN, etc.
We will ride this thunderbird, silver shadows on the earth, a thousand leagues away our land of birth... -Captain Bruce
 
nomorerjs
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:00 am

To slightly stray off topic, as aircraft availability has been mentioned in this thread, what are the OCT and YTD loads to BOS, ORD, and SEA? Just curious as to see where a potential 77L could come from (or 77W from somewhere else).
 
adamspotter
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:15 pm

Aside from the ME3, I am actually pleasantly surprised by KLMs LF. Even though a lot of people here are sure KLM won't return next summer we will have to wait and see  
 
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enilria
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RE: EK DFW Loads At 38% With A380

Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:25 pm

Quoting Tdan (Reply 137):
It goes out quite full year-round actually. The cargo justifies a widebody vs. a narrowbody on the route as it more than pays for the upgauge and requires zero incremental PAX to break-even. Cargo helps PAX routes at the margin only. If cargo was so lucrative that zero PAX were necessary, airlines would fly a freighter on the route and not a PAX aircraft.

Well said...

It's also much cheaper to pull a plane up to a slab of empty concrete with a tractor trailer waiting than a $1 billion terminal filled with employees.

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