aircatalonia
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Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:02 pm




http://www.flightradar24.com/VIR26Q/4fe08b8

Some of them will be landing 2 hours ahead of STA.
 
TC957
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:20 pm

Sub 6 hour eastbound NYC-LON flights are not unusual in winter, wouldn't be surprised if BOS - LHR is closer to just 5 hours now.
 
roseflyer
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:22 pm

It looks like the typical JFK-LHR crossing was under 6 hours last night except the slower 767 flights. It also looks like the planes were intentionally delayed a little out of JFK to avoid arriving too early, but still entered a hold waiting for the LHR curfew to lift since they arrived before 6am.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
TC957
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:24 pm

LHR doesn't have a 6am arrival curfew. Many flights arrive before then.
 
Cipango
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:24 pm

Last winter I saw an EI flight from BOS-DUB land after just 4Hrs 20Mins.

That's the fastest I have ever seen.
Let's fly! Unless it's on a CRJ 200, then I'll stay down here.
 
BA677
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:01 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):
LHR doesn't have a 6am arrival curfew. Many flights arrive before then.

Only a specific number of flights are allowed to arrive before 6am, not sure how many but I sure someone here will know. Allot are not allowed to and have a landing restriction not to land before 6am.
 
tommy767
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:09 pm

And on the reverse, check out how long the BOS-SFO flights have been the last few days:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...7/history/20141203/1920Z/KBOS/KSFO

7 hours and 36 minutes! That's the longest I've ever seen it. Imagine, almost 8 hours on a transcon!
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
MichaelEI
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:22 pm

Recently did DUB-BOS-DUB, arriving this morning,.

Westbound took a little over 7 hours 20 mins, but the return was 4 hours 50 mins ish.
 
frostyj
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:25 pm

Its not surprising. It can take four hours to go from Boston to Ireland.
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frostyj
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:28 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 6):

How is that even possible. I have yet to see flights from here reach 8 hours to nyc. Thats insane.
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roseflyer
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:46 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 6):
And on the reverse, check out how long the BOS-SFO flights have been the last few days:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...7/history/20141203/1920Z/KBOS/KSFO

7 hours and 36 minutes! That's the longest I've ever seen it. Imagine, almost 8 hours on a transcon!

40 minutes of that was holding due to poor weather and shifting winds in SFO. I don't think any transcons have exceeded 7 hours of flying time if they don't end up in a holding pattern. I have seen flights like BOS-SFO take about 6:40 without a hold.
If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
 
tommy767
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:55 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 9):
Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 10):

It had to be what RoseFlyer said. Poor weather meant holds in SFO.

Still Flightaware doesn't lie -- 7hr 36min in the air. Even if they are holding, it still counts.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
ASA
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:07 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 8):

Its not surprising. It can take four hours to go from Boston to Ireland.

If you are in Boston, you are in Ireland already!   
 
frostyj
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:13 pm

Lol um ok.. Some flights have taken off, aer lingus has gone 150 miles in 20 minutes. I don't know if thats impressive??
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traindoc
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:30 pm

The winds are also why UA 45, BRU-EWR, took a far northerly route yesterday. We traveled almost due north to the east of England, then turned west and went directly over Iceland, and then over the lower part of Greenland. We crossed into Canada over northern Labrador. Even though our route added about 500 miles to the trip we still arrived on time.

While over Greenland, I could see the full moon to the north, and the midday sun to the south. In 30 years of trans Atlantic flying, that was a first for me.
 
mcdu
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:27 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):

LHR doesn't have a 6am arrival curfew. Many flights arrive before then.


This is incorrect. The "night slots" allowed after 2300 and before 0600 are rare and rationed. At my carrier we are fined if we land before 0600 without a night slot. Often we will hold on the ground in the USA to prevent excessive airborne holding if the winds are strong and we are forecast to land before 0600 due to the tailwind.

This brings up another question I have for the UK denizens. Why is there so much focus on EU carbon offset penalties, yet you don't mind burning dead dinosaurs over the holding fixes in the name of noise. The problem becomes all the early arrivals in the holds awaiting 0600. Only one airplane at a time will land thus leaving the later arrivals to the holding pattern to be the last to land, well after 0600. The waste in fuel and the carbon exposure is surely enough to get a Sir or a Lord onto a special task force to spend millions of pounds valuing
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:41 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 1):

Sub 6 hour eastbound NYC-LON flights are not unusual in winter, wouldn't be surprised if BOS - LHR is closer to just 5 hours now.

In February 2008, I took a BA 772 from EWR to LHR in 4:45.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 6):
7 hours and 36 minutes! That's the longest I've ever seen it. Imagine, almost 8 hours on a transcon!

In December 2008 I took a VX A319 6:58 from JFK to SFO. We went over North Dakota and Montana before heading south. I honestly didn't know an A319 could stay airborne that long.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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Tigerguy
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:48 am

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 16):
In December 2008 I took a VX A319 6:58 from JFK to SFO. We went over North Dakota and Montana before heading south. I honestly didn't know an A319 could stay airborne that long.

Virgin America, eh? The load was probably abysmal enough to allow for extended range.   
Good night, and keep watching the skis. Uh, skies.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:50 am

Quoting Tigerguy (Reply 17):
Virgin America, eh? The load was probably abysmal enough to allow for extended range.   

Full flight. In 2008, they were one of the only games in town with PTVs on all aircraft featuring AVOD.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
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cschleic
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:31 am

Quoting Roseflyer (Reply 10):
40 minutes of that was holding due to poor weather and shifting winds in SFO. I don't think any transcons have exceeded 7 hours of flying time if they don't end up in a holding pattern. I have seen flights like BOS-SFO take about 6:40 without a hold.

Try Miami - Seattle on AA, or FLL - Seattle on Alaska. It's a long flight. I did the MIA one once; it was more than seven hours that day.

[Edited 2014-12-08 21:37:16]
 
n9801f
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:43 am

Quoting mcdu (Reply 15):
Why is there so much focus on EU carbon offset penalties, yet you don't mind burning dead dinosaurs over the holding fixes in the name of noise.

Yes, definitely a fair question.

Though I think the answer lies in the intricate British politics surrounding runways at Heathrow.

In other words, the complexity of sensitivities leads to some obvious non-optimalities.

Another example of the same thing is the fact that there are just 2 runways at the main business airport for the largest city in Europe.
 
frostyj
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:32 am

Well not that fast, usual EWR taking about 5 hours and 5 minutes. Never actually seen an EWR to Ireland take less than 5 hours, maybe its possible to do 4 and a half hours? Although wouldn't really want to be on that because i'd get no sleep and well basically you would get terrible jet lag.

For the flight length the time difference should really be 3 or 4 hours, not 5 hours. Longer distances such as to Doha have only got 2 hour time difference in the summer.

[Edited 2014-12-09 02:34:16]
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Revo1059
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:59 pm

With those winds anybody have an idea of what Concorde could do that trip in?
 
TonyBurr
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:30 pm

I pity those going westbound from Europe to the US. Imagine how much longer that will take. I wonder how many of UA's 757's will have to make a fuel stop?
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:29 pm

A few years back I saw a KL 744 over YQB clocking 720 kts.
us Air Traffic Controllers have a good record, we haven't left one up there yet !!
 
jetmatt777
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:42 pm

Quoting Revo1059 (Reply 23):
With those winds anybody have an idea of what Concorde could do that trip in?

The Concorde flew high above the jet stream, so it would not be able to take advantage of the winds. On the other side of the same coin, going the opposite direction it wasn't penalized with a headwind.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
deltairlines
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:45 pm

Quoting Revo1059 (Reply 23):
With those winds anybody have an idea of what Concorde could do that trip in?

Concorde generally flew about the jet stream winds so this wouldn't have had a huge effect - from what I recall, flight time eastbound was only about 5 minutes shorter than the westbound (want to say east was 3:45 and west was 3:50).
 
777ord
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:50 pm

Some great flight times indeed!! When I used to commute SAN-ORD, I once went via EWR and the 5:50 flight to SAN came out to be 6:20, plus the 1:40 from ORD and a 16hour shift before that... I was exhausted!!

For those who enjoy the longer TATL flights, they must have been bummed at the flight time! Same with the crews only getting 4-5h vs standard 5-6h pay!!!
 
tommy767
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:08 pm

Quoting cschleic (Reply 19):

The longest I've found on KMIA-KSEA is 6:29:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/A...7/history/20141126/2359Z/KMIA/KSEA

That is very long but the KBOS-KSFO flights pushed over 7 hours last week.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
vv701
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:07 pm

Quoting TC957 (Reply 3):
LHR doesn't have a 6am arrival curfew. Many flights arrive before then.
Quoting mcdu (Reply 15):
This is incorrect.

After the permitted arrivals before 06:00 there is a 20 minute gap with no scheduled arrivals. This gap is specifically used to land early arriving TATL flights scheduled to arrive after 06:20. Any such aircraft arriving before 06:00 will be kept in a holding stack until this time window opens.
 
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shamrock604
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:45 pm

Quoting ASA (Reply 12):
If you are in Boston, you are in Ireland already!   

We dont call it Dublin's most westerly suburb for nothing...  
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:27 pm

Quoting 777ord (Reply 28):
For those who enjoy the longer TATL flights, they must have been bummed at the flight time! Same with the crews only getting 4-5h vs standard 5-6h pay!!!

It's one of the unfortunate coincidences of nature. The Eastbound TATL flights are almost all red-eyes, but they are faster, which means that you don't get much sleep prior to arrival. The Westbound TATL flights are daytime and take significantly longer, so you are awake for the whole lovely experience.
-Doc Lightning-

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BubbleFrog
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:42 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 15):
This brings up another question I have for the UK denizens. Why is there so much focus on EU carbon offset penalties, yet you don't mind burning dead dinosaurs over the holding fixes in the name of noise. The problem becomes all the early arrivals in the holds awaiting 0600. Only one airplane at a time will land thus leaving the later arrivals to the holding pattern to be the last to land, well after 0600. The waste in fuel and the carbon exposure is surely enough to get a Sir or a Lord onto a special task force to spend millions of pounds valuing

The simplest answer is that often one policy that is made in one corner of government doesn't take into account what other corners are up to. At all.

The UK had at some point a few years ago pledged something close to 80% carbon reduction in overall traffic by 2050, yet at the same time aimed to grow civil aviation by something like 6% per year. Which essentially meant that only gliders would be allowed to fly.

I'd have to dig up the exact numbers (that was pre-crisis) and which sector was targeted in which timeframe, but I remember setting this puzzle as a coursework a few years ago.

And as mentioned before, the convoluted runway/ resident situation around LHR makes it worse.
Absolute Relativist
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:00 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 15):
Why is there so much focus on EU carbon offset penalties, yet you don't mind burning dead dinosaurs over the holding fixes in the name of noise. The problem becomes all the early arrivals in the holds awaiting 0600.

And most modern airliners on approach make very little noise. Especially the new generation starting with the 787 and A380 are amazingly quiet on approach.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
laca773
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:44 pm

Quoting DocLightning (Reply 18):
Full flight. In 2008, they were one of the only games in town with PTVs on all aircraft featuring AVOD.

Actually with those strong head winds, the A319 does a lot better than the A320 or A321. Thank goodness they utilize them on this route, or they would have to frequently divert in the winter months.

How many MPH is 720 knots?
 
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tjwgrr
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:26 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 35):
How many MPH is 720 knots?

Nearly 829 mph (828.56 mph)
Direct KNOBS, maintain 2700' until established on the localizer, cleared ILS runway 26 left approach.
 
CalTex
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:05 pm

Quoting laca773 (Reply 35):
How many MPH is 720 knots?

Unsolicited piece of advice: if you ever want a quick unit conversion, you can type "720 knots in miles per hour", "720 kt in mph", or whatever wording you prefer into Google or Bing and it'll do the conversion instantly. It works for just about any unit of measurement.
 
citationjet
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:31 pm

Maybe some of these records will be broken.
http://www.groundspeedrecords.com/database%20executive.htm
Boeing Flown: 701,702,703;717;720;721,722;731,732,733,734,735,73G,738,739;741,742,743,744,747SP;752,753;762,763;772,773,788.
 
a380787
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:36 pm

last week my westbound TATL was cruising at like 680 km/h at times (422 mph / 367 knots)
 
wxmeddler
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 9:53 pm

Speaking of speed records, there is a massive jet streak over the Pacific right now at around 300mb.
Pacific Jet Streak at 300mb. 2014/12/09 15z


Today's NRT/SFO trip took 7hrs 54min in a B744. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U...8/history/20141209/0920Z/RJAA/KSFO
Peak ground speed according to flightaware was 693 KTS (797mph) at FL390 at 1422z http://flightaware.com/live/flight/U.../20141209/0920Z/RJAA/KSFO/tracklog
 
frostyj
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:41 pm

I don't think the reduced flight time to get home is an advantage because of the massively increased time taken to go west. This summer I went over there and it took just over 6 hours to get to NYC but now flights are taking about 7.5 hours which way too long.
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frostyj
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 10:44 pm

Quoting wxmeddler (Reply 40):

That route is over 2,000 miles LONGER than Ireland to NYC and some of our flights have almost taken longer than that to get over so really there is a massive disadvantage to these headwinds. It would be better if they were not there.
http://uk.flightaware.com/live/flight/UAL24
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vv701
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:11 pm

Quoting deltairlines (Reply 27):
from what I recall, flight time eastbound was only about 5 minutes shorter than the westbound (want to say east was 3:45 and west was 3:50).


My 1993 BA Timetable shows BA001 scheduled to depart LHR at 10:30 and arrive JFK at 09:20. I make that a scheduled west-bound elapsed-time of 3 hrs 50 mins.

The return flight was scheduled to depart at 13:45 and arrive LHR at 22:25. I make that an east-bound scheduled elapsed time of 3 hrs 40 mins. So yes. Hardly any difference in the scheduled elapsed times.

The FIA JFK-LHR record was set by Concorde G-BOAD operating BA004 on 7 February 1996 at 2 hrs 52 mins 59 secs. That is over 20 per cent quicker than the scheduled time. However the scheduled time will include an allowance for pre-take-off and post-landing taxiing time and likely an allowance for time lost in the queue of departing traffic at busy JFK.
 
JetBlueCLT
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:16 pm

Oh my goodness, haha. My JetBlue flight from JFK-LAS last year clocked in at 6 hours and 10mins. Man was that fun though.
Pittsburgh Penguins, Steelers, Pirates and Charlotte Hornets Fan
 
timpdx
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:23 pm

I remember taking a grueling 15.5 hr SFO-HKG flight, but we screamed back, I distinctly remember seeing 1250kph ground speed (675kts). We got back in 11 or slightly under hours.
Flown 2018: LAX, ARN, DXB, ALA, TAS, UCG, ASB, MYP, GYD, TBS, KUT, BER, TLS, SVO, CCF, DUB, LGW, MEX, BUR, PDX, ORD, SLC, SNA
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baqnav
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:37 am

I was on DL163 from EHAM to KMSP on Monday, Deceber 8. We took the northern route that went north of UK, Iceland and over Geenland. We finally turned Southerly over Northern Hudson Bay. The 9 hour 10 minute flight was smooth with the exception of a lighting strike about 4-5 minutes after takeoff (still below FL100).
My opions are mine, not my employers
 
PHX787
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:15 am

700kts...how far below sound level is that? I know that mach 1 varies depending on altitude and air pressure but on average how far below the sound barrier is that?
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jetblueguy22
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:33 am

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 47):
700kts...how far below sound level is that? I know that mach 1 varies depending on altitude and air pressure but on average how far below the sound barrier is that?

That's a ground speed so you won't actually be breaking the speed of sound. But the speed of sound in dry air at 20C is about 667 knots. I believe that is at sea level though.
Pat
Look at sweatpants guy. This is a 90 million dollar aircraft, not a Tallahassee strip club
 
b747400erf
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:50 am

Quoting TonyBurr (Reply 23):
I pity those going westbound from Europe to the US. Imagine how much longer that will take. I wonder how many of UA's 757's will have to make a fuel stop?

w/b, they go more north and don't get that brutal headwind.
 
TheSonntag
Posts: 4439
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RE: Eastbound Tatl Clocking Almost 700kt

Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:34 pm

Right now, I see AFR 6 flying 359 knots, that is 665 km/h. Man that is slow (and the other planes around seem to be as slow, as well).

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