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KarelXWB
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Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Mon Dec 08, 2014 4:35 pm

Montgomery County police confirmed an airplane has crashed in the 19700 Block of Drop Forge Lane and that multiple homes have been impacted. The aircraft is believed to be a Phenom 100 with registration N100EQ.

http://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/541989718326390784
http://twitter.com/wusa9/status/541992363175182336
http://twitter.com/liveatc/status/541990905256099840

More details to follow.



[Edited 2014-12-08 08:52:02]
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rj777
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Mon Dec 08, 2014 5:39 pm

RIP to the victims. All I can say is thank god it wasn't an Airliner!
 
flightsimer
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:34 pm

At least three dead on the aircraft. Three houses hit, with one being completely destroyed by fire, which was said to be occupied at the time by a Mother with a 4 year old, a toddler and a 2 month old. The 4 year old was confirmed to be at daycare, but the mom and two other children are still missing. The Father was at work at the time.

Unfortunately, her car is in the driveway, so it would appear they were indeed at home.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
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TWA772LR
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:36 pm

Just saw this on OANN. Three people are dead.
        
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INFINITI329
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Mon Dec 08, 2014 6:51 pm

First incident/accident of a Phenom 100
 
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clickhappy
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:01 pm

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 4):
First incident/accident of a Phenom 100

Not even close. Maybe the first with loss of life, but there have been many E50 accidents.
 
smokeybandit
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Mon Dec 08, 2014 8:29 pm

 
flightsimer
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:03 pm

I just checked for updates and they have confirmed the Mother and two small children perished in the accident.
Commercial / Airline Pilot
 
wxmeddler
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:25 pm

First of all, RIP to those involved in this tragedy. This one is a little too close to home for me, living in the DC area.

The Montgomery County PIO(Public Information Officer) confirms 6 total dead (3 in the aircraft, 3 in heavily damaged house). NTSB "GO" team is on site per the NTSB twitter feed. A clip of the ATC transactions has been posted online. Seems birds in the area were a concern upon approach.
https://soundcloud.com/newschopperbrad/n100eq-crash-at-kgai

[Edited 2014-12-08 14:27:21]
 
sunilgupta
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:26 pm

Very sad. This is a mile from my house so I was quite shaken when I heard about it. My condolences to those involved. This is actually my worst nightmare living near a small airport especially when I see the smaller plans arcing right over my roof.
Sunil
 
D L X
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Mon Dec 08, 2014 11:52 pm

Wow. This poor dude just lost his whole family.

How incredibly sad.
 
tp1040
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:14 am

A friend works at the company and the CEO was flying. Not a good idea IMHO.
 
BiggerJetsPlz
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:19 am

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 11):
A friend works at the company and the CEO was flying. Not a good idea IMHO.

You mean that he was piloting the aircraft?
 
tp1040
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:21 am

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 12):
You mean that he was piloting the aircraft?

Yes, PIC.
 
7673mech
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:27 am

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 11):





A friend works at the company and the CEO was flying. Not a good idea IMHO.

Why?
If he is qualified - what's the difference if he is killed flying or as a passenger?
 
mcdu
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:40 am

Quoting 7673mech (Reply 14):


Why?
If he is qualified - what's the difference if he is killed flying or as a passenger?

Will be interesting to see the accident report. Many CEO's, doctors, lawyers etc think they are adequate pilots, only to kill themselves and others. Flying a technologically advanced jet is something that can't be done part time. The threshold for membership into the jet club can be quite reasonable in dollars. Having the dollars doesn't equal having the skill. You can't buy judgment and airmanship. It comes with experience and everyday flying. Perhaps this guy will be the exception to the norm but more often than not it will be an airmanship cause.
 
bigb
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:46 am

Quoting mcdu (Reply 15):

Will be interesting to see the accident report. Many CEO's, doctors, lawyers etc think they are adequate pilots, only to kill themselves and others. Flying a technologically advanced jet is something that can't be done part time. The threshold for membership into the jet club can be quite reasonable in dollars. Having the dollars doesn't equal having the skill. You can't buy judgment and airmanship. It comes with experience and everyday flying. Perhaps this guy will be the exception to the norm but more often than not it will be an airmanship cause.

Lets wait and see what the accident report says first before jumping to any conclusions.
 
tonytifao
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:51 am

My good friend here in Melbourne is a Demo pilot for the Phenom 100/300. Sad to hear about this accident. RIP
 
atct
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:52 am

Quoting mcdu (Reply 15):
Flying a technologically advanced jet is something that can't be done part time.

Actually it can. Don't jump to conclusions that this pilot was inadequate. He could have 25,000 hours with 1,000 in type for all we know. Let the NTSB do their job,
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mcdu
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:35 am

Quoting atct (Reply 18):



Actually it can. Don't jump to conclusions that this pilot was inadequate. He could have 25,000 hours with 1,000 in type for all we know. Let the NTSB do their job,

If you care to read my entire post I put caveats into the speculation. The only thing I am relying on is the thousands of crashses before where a wanna-be pilot crashed a perfectly good airplane.

Would you want to have surgery from a doctor that only did the job his spare time or sail across an ocean with skipper that dabbled in how to be a sea captain?

There is a great deal of data to support the hypothesis that flying a high performance jet is not suited for the non-professional pilot.
 
flymia
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:50 am

Quoting mcdu (Reply 19):
The only thing I am relying on is the thousands of crashses before where a wanna-be pilot crashed a perfectly good airplane.

While I agree pilot/owner crashes in complex aircraft is an issue, and inexperienced pilots should be flying with co-pilots or more experienced pilots. It has not been a huge issue with the Phenom. Also the "wannabe pilot" thing is a little bit extreme. There are professional/career pilots and there are pilots, all have to go through some type of certification, medicals, exams etc.. There are plenty of professional airline pilots who have crashed perfectly good airplanes as well. Accidents and mistakes happen at all levels.

Lets see what the NTSB says about it, and we will know plenty about the pilot pretty soon.
"It was just four of us on the flight deck, trying to do our job" (Captain Al Haynes)
 
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:51 am

RIP to all involved. In particular the kids.   

I was wondering the type of plane... Yes, I'm that much of an aviation geek.  
Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 4):

First incident/accident of a Phenom 100
Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
This poor dude just lost his whole family.

That would rip my heart out to lose my kids. (Not the ex... But we'll assume they were happily married in this case.)


Quoting tonytifao (Reply 17):
My good friend here in Melbourne is a Demo pilot for the Phenom 100/300. Sad to hear about this accident. RIP

Better said than I. I agree. RIP.


Lightsaber
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elinyc
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:42 am

... the plane's owner, Dr. Michael J. Rosenberg - CEO of North Carolina-based Health Decisions, a clinical research organization - was among the three fatalities on the plane. ... Rosenberg had survived a March 2010 crash into some trees near the same airpark, totaling his $1.4 million turbo-prop plane at the time. "The pilot’s failure to maintain aircraft control while performing a go-around" was cited by the NTSB as the crash cause

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2014/12...e-in-montgomery-county-109634.html
 
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garpd
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:12 am

Hmm, so a pilot with a history of crashing due to letting the speed get too low on approach has now crashed a jet 1 mile short of the runway with the seen to be behaving aircraft like it was stalling.

I know what my money is on.

But until the report comes out. The pilot deserves and gets the benefit of doubt from my side.
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namezero111111
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:51 am

Quoting garpd (Reply 23):
The pilot deserves and gets the benefit of doubt from my side.

  
While human factors are almost always involved, there has been a lot of unsubstantiated pilot bashing going around lately.
 
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BN727227Ultra
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:06 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
Wow. This poor dude just lost his whole family.

How incredibly sad.

Heartbreaking.  
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:48 pm

While most a.netters are on here to talk about airplanes and speculate on what an airline will do next, it is easy to forget that human lives are lost in the pursuit of flight.

What a horrible thing to happen to these good people, especially as we approach the holiday season. My heartfelt respect and sympathy to the victims and their families.
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pliersinsight
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:22 pm

Quoting mcdu (Reply 15):
Will be interesting to see the accident report. Many CEO's, doctors, lawyers etc think they are adequate pilots, only to kill themselves and others. Flying a technologically advanced jet is something that can't be done part time. The threshold for membership into the jet club can be quite reasonable in dollars. Having the dollars doesn't equal having the skill. You can't buy judgment and airmanship. It comes with experience and everyday flying. Perhaps this guy will be the exception to the norm but more often than not it will be an airmanship cause.

As someone who always dreamed of being a B747 captain, but ended up being a lawyer, that was the exact conclusion I came to after earning my private. Money makes airplanes fly, but you can't buy overall experience and recency. There is no exchange rate for US dollars to aviation currency.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:24 pm

Quoting BN727227Ultra (Reply 25):

Quoting D L X (Reply 10):
Wow. This poor dude just lost his whole family.

How incredibly sad.

Heartbreaking.  

I thought a daughter was at school at the time of the accident.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
zrb2
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:01 pm

I live less than half a mile from the crash site. This event has really shocked our community. Since I'm an aviation nerd i often go over to the airpark to check out the action. There are probably 4-5 jets using the airpark on an average weekday so they are not unusual. The runway is only 4,200 x 75' so the jets come in low and hot and have to touch down immediately. The initial witness reports coming out made it sound like the engines were "sputtering" and an unusual amount of Canadian geese were in the area (there is a nature preserve right there). I have to admit, when i heard this same Doctor was involved in a 2010 crash at the same airport it swung my thinking that this could be pilot error. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt but man, he's a full time Doctor, researcher and businessman. These planes are FAST and require some serious skill to put them down on the short & narrow KGAI runway. He had one accident at the same airport atrributed to *his* pilot error. This will be an interesting outcome.

I feel horrible for the innocent family killed and the surviving husband and daughter. It could have been us, and my kids and wife. I mean when you get on a plane you accept a certain risk that it *could* crash..but people on the ground going about their day?!? it's just too hard to comprehend how/why it happened to them.
 
D L X
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:02 pm

Quoting SOBHI51 (Reply 28):
I thought a daughter was at school at the time of the accident.

This is true. It came out after I posted that, or at least I hadn't heard it yet.

The story touched a little too close to home before the names were released. I feared that that house was my friend's house as they live in that neighborhood and have a 3 year old and a newborn.
 
micstatic
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:46 pm

the NTSB's tweets today seem to suggest a stall and eliminate a bird strike. Though it's possible the pilot was preoccupied with the birds and forgot to fly the airplane.
Basically the NTSB said after looking at the airplane, cvr and fdr:

-Large changes in pitch and roll took place at lowest airspeed
-2sec after lowest airspeed throttles increased and engines responded
-No evidence of bird ingestion
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
tp1040
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:29 am

If it turns out to be pilot error, really sad that so many people died because of this guy.

A good CFO would not allow the CEO to transport key personnel in a single pilot situation. Also would not permit having the CEO as single the pilot.

Insurance and corporate governance Should have prevented this.

I know the families will never be compensated enough to overcome the pain. Things like this can pull a whole company.
 
Okie
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:25 am

Quoting micstatic (Reply 31):
the NTSB's tweets today seem to suggest a stall and eliminate a bird strike. Though it's possible the pilot was preoccupied with the birds and forgot to fly the airplane.
Basically the NTSB said after looking at the airplane, cvr and fdr:

Lots of rumors including slowing to provide separation of a preceding GA ahead of him.
The NTSB is on the case.
The Phenom is a modern aircraft with modern recorders, the 30 day preliminary will most likely have most answers.



Quoting tp1040 (Reply 32):
A good CFO would not allow the CEO to transport key personnel in a single pilot situation

There is more than one jet type certified for single pilot ops. Smaller companies/business owners, charter operations just do not have the resources to keep two or more pilots on the payroll.
They purchase/lease/charter and aircraft that fits their budget.


Okie
 
maxpower1954
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:05 am

Quoting okie (Reply 33):
There is more than one jet type certified for single pilot ops. Smaller companies/business owners, charter operations just do not have the resources to keep two or more pilots on the payroll.
They purchase/lease/charter and aircraft that fits their budget.


They might be legal for single pilot operations, but the insurance rates are so much higher for single pilot operations it's cheaper to pay two pilots. Virtually all single pilot jet operations are owner flown.

[Edited 2014-12-09 18:29:23]
 
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barney captain
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:46 am

From ASN;

The following preliminary findings -all subject to be valitated- were reported in an NTSB press briefing on December 9:

- Flight time from Chapel Hill to Gaithersburg: 57 minutes
- En route altitude: FL230
- Captain (ATPL rated) seated in left hand seat
- Passenger seated in right hand seat
- Flight was cleared for RNAV GPS runway 14 approach
- 46 Seconds before CVR recording ended: Radio Altimeter callout of 500 feet
- 20 Seconds before CVR recording ended: Audio stall callout, which continued to the end of the recording
- Flaps were extended and gear was down
- Lowest recorded airspeed by FDR: 88 knots
- Large excursions in pitch and roll attitude were recorded by the FDR
- 2 Seconds after lowest airspeed was recorded, the throttles were advanced
- No evidence of engine fire or failure or bird ingestion

15:35 UTC / 10:35 local time:
KGAI 081535Z 04006KT 10SM FEW021 OVC032 M01/M08 A3061 RMK AO1
Wind: 040 degrees at 6 knots; Visibility: 10+ miles; Clouds: few at 2100 feet, overcast cloud deck at 3200 feet AGL; Temperature: -1°C; Dewpoint: -8°C; Pressure: 1036.7 mb



http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20141208-0
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wxmeddler
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:40 am

There is a online fundraiser going on for the surviving father and daughter of the family impact for any costs relating to their recovery. It is being run by a close friend of the family. Please consider donating.

http://www.gofundme.com/gemmellfamily
 
micstatic
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:21 pm

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 34):
They might be legal for single pilot operations, but the insurance rates are so much higher for single pilot operations it's cheaper to pay two pilots. Virtually all single pilot jet operations are owner flown.

This is actually not true in any way. Atleast in 2014. The aviation insurance market is the softest seen in decades. Many more aviation insurance companies have brought down premiums significantly. The insurance rates are typically only 15-25% more for single pilot these days. The difference on this plane between SP and Dual crew could have been as little as 3-5000 dollars. Also not correct about all single pilot jets being owner flown. Countless Premiers, Citations, Phenoms, Eclipse, etc are pro flown single pilot by small corporations. Heck even some charter operations fly single pilot.
S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
 
flyinryan99
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:35 pm

Quoting tp1040 (Reply 32):
Insurance and corporate governance Should have prevented this.

I take exception to this. It's not the job of the insurance company to prevent something like this. I'm sure there were some kind of requirements this guy had to get him to be insured and the limits he had were not very high. The other question is, does the company have a non-owned policy because they are likely to be dragged into this and hopefully don't drag the company under.

Quoting micstatic (Reply 37):
This is actually not true in any way. Atleast in 2014. The aviation insurance market is the softest seen in decades. Many more aviation insurance companies have brought down premiums significantly. The insurance rates are typically only 15-25% more for single pilot these days. The difference on this plane between SP and Dual crew could have been as little as 3-5000 dollars. Also not correct about all single pilot jets being owner flown. Countless Premiers, Citations, Phenoms, Eclipse, etc are pro flown single pilot by small corporations. Heck even some charter operations fly single pilot.

You are mostly on point. This type of owner flown risk is still much more expensive relative to the market and have less availability to higher limits. There are only a couple of markets that will insure this type of a risk and there have been a few fatal accidents over the past 18 months or so which could dramatically reshape this part of the insurance market. The market softness is in professionally flown coporate aircraft where the losses haven't been happening lately.
 
zrb2
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:47 pm

Not that a bird strike would ease the pain but this is especially tragic to hear that he probably stalled out the airplane and couldn't fly himself out of it. This doesn't sound a whole lot different than Colgan air in Buffalo stalling and dropping on a house.
I watch jets come in to runway 14 several times a week and they are going FAST and low. I can't believe this guy let the airspeed drop to 88 knots. Having crashed in 2010 at the same airport in part due to a stall, it's unnerving to think he flew this sophisticated of an aircraft by himself.
 
Flighty
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:07 pm

Quoting 7673mech (Reply 14):
Why?
If he is qualified - what's the difference if he is killed flying or as a passenger?

Professional pilots and amateur pilots are in two totally different risk categories. What's the difference, the difference is he wouldn't be dead now with a professional pilot.

[Edited 2014-12-10 07:08:45]
 
D L X
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:09 pm

Quoting wxmeddler (Reply 36):

There is a online fundraiser going on for the surviving father and daughter of the family impact for any costs relating to their recovery. It is being run by a close friend of the family. Please consider donating.

http://www.gofundme.com/gemmellfamily

You know, as much as I sympathize with these folks (and I really do) I always find these crowd sourcing things unsettling. This fundraiser keeps upping the goal every time they achieve it. Yesterday it was $100k. Now it's $500k, and they are surely going to raise that.

The thing is, this gentleman is not poor, and is likely insured. If that happened to me, I know that I'd be receiving a huge check from my insurance company, as well as a huge settlement from the company that crashed the plane into my house. I bet this poor guy ends up donating the money donated to him back to other organizations.

And of course, the money isn't going to bring back what he really wants: his family. In short, these things don't do a whole lot to help the victim, but merely make everyone else feel good, like they've done SOMETHING.

Am I wrong?
 
desertjets
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:38 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
You know, as much as I sympathize with these folks (and I really do) I always find these crowd sourcing things unsettling. This fundraiser keeps upping the goal every time they achieve it. Yesterday it was $100k. Now it's $500k, and they are surely going to raise that.

The thing is, this gentleman is not poor, and is likely insured. If that happened to me, I know that I'd be receiving a huge check from my insurance company, as well as a huge settlement from the company that crashed the plane into my house. I bet this poor guy ends up donating the money donated to him back to other organizations.

And of course, the money isn't going to bring back what he really wants: his family. In short, these things don't do a whole lot to help the victim, but merely make everyone else feel good, like they've done SOMETHING.

Am I wrong?

I think you're right. While the widow and his oldest child will likely do ok once all the settlements come in (and that money won't bring his deceased spouse and two younger children plus his destroyed home and all the memories contained within) that is going to take a fair amount of time before that money ends up in his bank account. The generosity of friends and strangers will help him return to a new normal a little more quickly.


As cool as I think VLJs are, the more I look at them the more I do really think they end up being toys for rich people. Now I know plenty are flown by professional pilots and I get the impression that VLJs may be easier to fly and have less workload than say a KingAir or a big piston twin like a Cessna 421 or the like. But they are still complex aircraft with complex systems that require a fair amount of practice to maintain proficiency.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
Mir
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:25 am

Quoting 7673mech (Reply 14):
Why?
If he is qualified - what's the difference if he is killed flying or as a passenger?

Owner-pilots are a known issue in the corporate aviation community. When someone has been able to rise to the financial status that enables them to own an airplane, they tend to exhibit several of the hazardous attitudes that make them potentially unsafe in the cockpit (invulnerability, anti-authority, etc.). That's not to say they're bad people, because it works for them in their field, but it can present a big problem at the controls of an airplane.

If someone owns a jet and wants to fly it, fine. But they should have a professional in the other seat to keep an eye on them.

Quoting desertjets (Reply 42):
I get the impression that VLJs may be easier to fly and have less workload than say a KingAir or a big piston twin like a Cessna 421 or the like. But they are still complex aircraft with complex systems that require a fair amount of practice to maintain proficiency.

People look at all the automation in VLJs and think "oh, those must be easy to fly", and they are as far as systems are concerned. But you can't automate the actual flying of the airplane. Aerodynamics are aerodynamics, and if you let the airplane get close to the edge of the flight envelope things are going to get nasty.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
maxpower1954
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RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:42 am

Quoting Mir (Reply 43):
Owner-pilots are a known issue in the corporate aviation community. When someone has been able to rise to the financial status that enables them to own an airplane, they tend to exhibit several of the hazardous attitudes that make them potentially unsafe in the cockpit (invulnerability, anti-authority, etc.). That's not to say they're bad people, because it works for them in their field, but it can present a big problem at the controls of an airplane.

Well said. In my flight instructor days, the most difficult people to teach were the "self-made" or entrepreneur types. It was like trying to train my house cat.

One of my closest friends of many years is one of these types. He has managed to survive years of flying his PA-24 in weather I wouldn't fly a 321 in. Judgement is the one skill almost impossible to teach; as usual with these types, he thinks he's a safe pilot.

So far he has been extremely lucky.

My experience "baby sitting" these guys in the right seat of a King Air 90 and Cessna 340 hasn't been pleasant either. They tended to ignore any suggestions or advice anyway, and it wasn't a comfortable situation. Not like working with a professional pilot at all.

[Edited 2014-12-11 21:52:54]

[Edited 2014-12-11 21:54:47]
 
zrb2
Posts: 862
Joined: Sat May 20, 2000 10:07 am

RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:43 pm

Those are enlightening comments above. As a non-pilot i just find it unsettling that this guy flew a sophisticated Jet by himself into an uncontrolled small airport on a low cloud day. Being the Founder/CEO of a company and a respected Doctor, researcher...how the heck would you have time to stay proficient as a VLJ pilot?
It scream of overconfidence.
 
desertjets
Posts: 7693
Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2000 3:12 pm

RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:06 pm

Quoting Mir (Reply 43):
But you can't automate the actual flying of the airplane. Aerodynamics are aerodynamics, and if you let the airplane get close to the edge of the flight envelope things are going to get nasty.

Basically what I am hearing is that if he let the plane get too slow and too far on the wrong side of the energy curve he was going to lawn dart it, regardless of whether he was flying the Phenom or a 182.
Stop drop and roll will not save you in hell. --- seen on a church marque in rural Virginia
 
Mir
Posts: 19491
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 3:55 am

RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:30 pm

Quoting desertjets (Reply 46):
Basically what I am hearing is that if he let the plane get too slow and too far on the wrong side of the energy curve he was going to lawn dart it, regardless of whether he was flying the Phenom or a 182.

Essentially correct. But the difference is that you've got lots more margin for error in a 182 than a Phenom (or any other light jet). Light jets are as easy to manage from a systems standpoint as a 182 (possibly easier). But you have to stay a lot further ahead of the jet than the 182, which requires more forethought and attention, and that's where non-professionals have a tendency to fall short.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
777STL
Posts: 2770
Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 8:22 am

RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:33 pm

Quoting D L X (Reply 41):
You know, as much as I sympathize with these folks (and I really do) I always find these crowd sourcing things unsettling. This fundraiser keeps upping the goal every time they achieve it. Yesterday it was $100k. Now it's $500k, and they are surely going to raise that. The thing is, this gentleman is not poor, and is likely insured. If that happened to me, I know that I'd be receiving a huge check from my insurance company, as well as a huge settlement from the company that crashed the plane into my house. I bet this poor guy ends up donating the money donated to him back to other organizations.

I agree with you.

Between insurance on the property, possible life insurance on the mother, and the inevitable lawsuit against the pilot's estate and the company he owned, they will be made whole.

I don't understand why an event like this needs to be a profit center.
PHX based
 
VijayJ
Posts: 47
Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2014 9:56 pm

RE: Phenom 100 Crashes In Maryland

Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:39 pm

Quoting desertjets (Reply 42):
As cool as I think VLJs are, the more I look at them the more I do really think they end up being toys for rich people. Now I know plenty are flown by professional pilots and I get the impression that VLJs may be easier to fly and have less workload than say a KingAir or a big piston twin like a Cessna 421 or the like. But they are still complex aircraft with complex systems that require a fair amount of practice to maintain proficiency.

I can't help but think of the American baseball player Thurmon Munson and his accident.

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