tommy767
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:48 pm

Quoting airzim (Reply 47):

It certainly helps out. It's not one $7 free cocktail either. I just flew E+ on LAX-JFK and it was unlimited in addition to the free wrap and ice cream given out. It's a nice touch -- and certainly better than being nickel and dimed by UA.

On-time rates is what makes or breaks an airline. DOT reported DL has an 85, UA has 76. Guess who wins my dollar?

Quoting a380787 (Reply 48):

Give me a break -- It is free food. How is a snack not free food?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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airzim
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:00 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 50):
It certainly helps out. It's not one $7 free cocktail either. I just flew E+ on LAX-JFK and it was unlimited in addition to the free wrap and ice cream given out. It's a nice touch -- and certainly better than being nickel and dimed by UA.

Fair enough if that's all you care about. But if you look at their food and drink offering in the totality of the airline and frequent flier program experience, and compare that with MileagePlus and AAdvantage, then for many, Delta can't make enough wraps and Bud Lights to make up for no First Class FFP redemptions, no stop over awards, lack of seat availability, inconsistent MDM accrual across alliance partners, etc.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 50):
On-time rates is what makes or breaks an airline. DOT reported DL has an 85, UA has 76. Guess who wins my dollar?

So now we've changed the arguments to on time performance and not food/beverage and Silver status. OK, thanks for the left turn.
 
a380787
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:03 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 50):

Quoting a380787 (Reply 48):

Give me a break -- It is free food. How is a snack not free food?

Got it. Next time on your 15 hour ATL-JNB segment, make sure you ask them to serve you enough nuts pretzels cookies and chips in lieu of dinner service.
 
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airzim
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:06 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 50):
Quoting a380787 (Reply 48):

Give me a break -- It is free food. How is a snack not free food?

You're also assuming you'll get a seat in C+, which is smaller than the offering on most UA aircraft I assume come 3/15, you're not going to be too happy with Delta when you're consistently down the back, while Delta nickel and dimes their passengers with upsells into C+ thus denying you an opportunity to seat in C+

[Edited 2014-12-09 10:08:04]
 
tommy767
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:10 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 52):

Dude, what the hell are you talking about? Premium snacks on DL mean either things like snack boxes or on longer flights actual cold meals.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
tommy767
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:12 pm

Quoting airzim (Reply 53):

You'd more than likely get it. I honestly don't think the UG rates to F on UA are any better than DL as a silver. And at least in E+ as a silver on DL you get free stuff. On UA that just doesn't happen (but good job trying to spin that.)
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
a380787
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:14 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 54):
Premium snacks on DL mean either things like snack boxes or on longer flights actual cold meals.

I just looked it up. "Snack box" is still snacks, packaged nicely. They can be wrapped as fancy as the Japanese do it and it's still snacks.

Define cold meals. A frozen burger ?
 
tommy767
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:15 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 56):

I'm not going to even address you anymore. You want info on this program, use the links provided in the thread or do a google search.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
MSPNWA
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:22 pm

Delta One is just a terrible name. What was wrong with BusinessElite? I thought BE was one of the best names out there for that class. Don't change what isn't broken.

Quoting airzim (Reply 53):
You're also assuming you'll get a seat in C+, which is smaller than the offering on most UA aircraft I assume come 3/15

Most comparable UA aircraft have twice the amount or more E+ seats. This change by DL hits Gold Medallion members really hard. Sure they can still try to wait for a free available C+ seat at 72 hours, but will you want to take that risk with so few C+ seats? Want to be stuck in a middle seat for 12+ hours? No, when you really want it you'll have to buy it. And when you buy it, no more discounts. Ouch. Maybe UA travelers don't realize how many E+ seats are at their disposal compared to DL. It changes everything.

[Edited 2014-12-09 10:24:25]
 
a380787
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:23 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 57):

I'm not going to even address you anymore. You want info on this program, use the links provided in the thread or do a google search.

You're making all these glorious claims about C+ when in fact as a Silver, your chances of scoring C+ is FAR worse than on UA :

DL 738 : 18 C+ seats

UA 738 : 48-54 E+ seats on most configs

Your arguments are only compelling *if* DL has similar sized C+ cabins as UA, but that's not anywhere near reality.
 
tommy767
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:25 pm

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 58):
Delta One is just a terrible name. What was wrong with BusinessElite? I thought BE was one of the best names out there for that class. Don't change what isn't broken.

I don't know: It's 20 years old in name and branding? The product kind of sucks?

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 58):
Maybe UA travelers don't realize how many E+ seats are at their disposal compared to DL. It changes everything.

By the time a silver gets to the check-in window for free E+ even on UA, it's going to be a crapshoot. On DL, yes there are less seats but AT LEAST you get free amenities when seated there. Amazing that some people think this is a bad thing compared to UA where they give you nothing as an elite in E+. Not even DTV.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:27 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 55):
You'd more than likely get it.

This really depends on the route, also the fact that GMs no longer can select at booking changes things a bit, both for Plats and Diamonds as well as Silvers trying to nail the 24 hours snag. In reality outside of free booze/"premium snack" as a Silver most exit rows are better anyways, which is something you cannot immediately select on UA as they are marked as E+.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 56):
I just looked it up. "Snack box" is still snacks, packaged nicely. They can be wrapped as fancy as the Japanese do it and it's still snacks.

Define cold meals. A frozen burger ?

If it is anything like the current snack boxes and sandwhiches that are part of the BOB program they are generally pretty average, but on a tight connection something is better than nothing.

What kind of surprises me is that airlines haven't tried to offer selling meals by seat. An online/phone app menu and depending on class you are able to purchase or upgrade your meal. Thus, they would only need to bring food that was ordered and bring biscoffs for the rest.
 
a380787
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:29 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 60):
Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 58):
Maybe UA travelers don't realize how many E+ seats are at their disposal compared to DL. It changes everything.

By the time a silver gets to the check-in window for free E+ even on UA, it's going to be a crapshoot.

I've just shown you figures that it's way better of a crapshoot. On the same 738, 18 seats vs. 54 seats. With 18 seats, even GM might sit in regular Y, let alone Silvers.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:33 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 43):
That bag of salty pretzels is what he calls "free food on E+"

Yes, that's it - or a cookie or bag of peanuts. But it's better than what NW gave at the end of its miserable life (they had dropped even the spinzels pre-merger) and more than one gets in domestic coach on AA today.
 
B4REAL
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:14 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 46):
So far it seems to be only between hubs and Florida, and it doesn't exist on connecting itineraries

Thanks, found a few. Let's hope it doesn't stick. LOL

Quoting a380787 (Reply 56):
I just looked it up. "Snack box" is still snacks, packaged nicely. They can be wrapped as fancy as the Japanese do it and it's still snacks

And that's fine. An improvement for the bulk of DL's competition. They are doing a lot of good things.

--

That being said, I'm still a bit weary of all of the changes. SkyMonies, this stuff and more. I'm a Diamond, 1 Million; too invested to switch but concerned about the next few years.
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds & @RickVanover on Twitter
 
a380787
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:22 pm

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 64):

And that's fine. An improvement for the bulk of DL's competition. They are doing a lot of good things.

I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Just that snacks is snacks and shouldn't be relabeled as something else to artificially paint a rosier picture.
 
tommy767
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:37 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 65):

I think the picture you were trying to paint before is elites sitting in E+ get pretzels or peanuts. Even in the new Basic Economy, the pax get that. Elites in E+ get 'Premium Snacks' which is something of a higher level than the basic cookies, peanuts, pretzels etc.

Also I'm curious as to how DL will lax up the change fees for regular economy. Are they trying to compete with WN in that sense?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:40 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 66):
Also I'm curious as to how DL will lax up the change fees for regular economy. Are they trying to compete with WN in that sense?

I don't think they are. Basic fare won't even have an option to change, and the main cabin will maintain the current $200 change fee.
 
B4REAL
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:52 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 65):
I'm not saying it's a bad thing. Just that snacks is snacks and shouldn't be relabeled as something else to artificially paint a rosier picture.

Nah, they're doing standard marketing and advertising. It's like a car. MSRP vs. As Shown. In the case of snacks on a plane, it's a bit more than just a bag of pretzels and a biscoff in a ziplock bag. For what it is, it is good and adequately described. Heck, especially on Delta long-haul international flights of recent, I'd argue they give TOO much food service. Recently went ATL-AMS and I think the service was:

-Drinks (pretzels and peanuts)
-Dinner (choice of 3 items, one cold)
-Drinks again
-Late night snack (ham on a bun) and a cookie
-Bottle of water (1/2 liter)
-Drinks
-Breakfast
-Coffee Tea or water

I may be missing drink in the middle, namely cups ready to go with water.

DL has in-flight service right, above bar for US airlines. #LoveWidget (But watching closely!)
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds & @RickVanover on Twitter
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:53 pm

Even as just Silver, I can't remember ever NOT getting an EC/C+ seat or an exit row. I'm with Tommy, I'm not worried. Silver is made out to be useless but I've sat in F the majority of the time I've flown.
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
B4REAL
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:05 pm

One thing I feel a bit funky and in the wrong direction is that most SkyTeam carriers, especially the "older" ones had "Economy Comfort" would be nice to have a consistent product, etc. Across carriers.

I hope SkyPriority boarding stays!
B4REAL, spelled like it sounds & @RickVanover on Twitter
 
tommy767
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:05 pm

Quoting osubuckeyes (Reply 67):

See this infographic (wasn't clickable on website yesterday for some reason.) It says under "MAIN CABIN" flexbility for flight changes. Not sure what that means -- if the change fees are relaxed:

http://filecache.drivetheweb.com/mr5...4/Branded+Products+Chart-FINAL.jpg

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 69):

While I haven't been upgraded at all this year since I qualified last month, it's only been because I've flown on elite heavy routes on peak days: SNA-SLC, MSP-SLC, EWR-DTW, DTW-LAX for example. I'm sure if I was flying LAX-MCO all the time on 757s I could score it up to F.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
a380787
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:20 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 71):

See this infographic (wasn't clickable on website yesterday for some reason.) It says under "MAIN CABIN" flexbility for flight changes. Not sure what that means -- if the change fees are relaxed:

That only means any changes are allowed AT ALL ... which contrasts to Basic Economy which is a throwaway ticket if you can't make it exactly to that flight.

Something as fundamental as "fee-based changes" all of a sudden is highlighted as a "benefit" in the infographic.

Quoting northwestEWR (Reply 69):
Silver is made out to be useless but I've sat in F the majority of the time I've flown.

Nearly everytime I've flown (on another airline) the elite upgrade list is larger than the entire F cabin (like ~40-60). Even if no one has paid F, no one has award F, no one deadheading, and no discount upgrades offered, the cabin can't even accommodate the list.

So either the routes you fly must be very elite-lite, or DL has very few elites.
 
Osubuckeyes
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 8:20 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 71):
It says under "MAIN CABIN" flexbility for flight changes. Not sure what that means -- if the change fees are relaxed:

It is flexibility compared to basic, which does not allow changes at all. However it does not say anything about fees. If they get rid of the change fee on the Main Cabin fare, which would be surprising, that would be a huge improvement for all flyers.
 
audidudi
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:25 pm

Quoting questions (Reply 38):

Actually the nuts do come in a bag, as DL no longer serves warm nuts in a small dish in the BE cabin! I do miss the warm nuts, but do I care that they now come in a bag? Not at all! I couldn't care less! I'm much more interested in the service onboard.

[Edited 2014-12-09 15:28:26]
 
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bluefltspecial
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:08 am

As someone who worked for the airlines for years and now pays to fly, barely holding status currently on multiple airlines and being a million miler on one airline I would like to just drop a quick note to those who are going on about your upgrades as it's something you're entitled to. PLEASE, remember that it's a benefit not an entitlement. Delta has done a great job in diversifying itself and while no airline will EVER be perfect for every traveler, they are pretty damn decent in comparison. They continue to try to make having elite status just that, ELITE, which I actually like, even if it means I have to pay extra for it.

As I once saw in a video, if you think your $250 ticket entitles you to extra leg room, unlimited champagne, free food and the right to harass the flight attendant every few minutes, think again. If you want a quite space with extra perks, spend a few more bucks and get a seat with the big dicks up front.

Thanks.
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....
 
TW870
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:43 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 72):
Nearly everytime I've flown (on another airline) the elite upgrade list is larger than the entire F cabin (like ~40-60).

Oh indeed. As a Silver, I was number 31 out of 40 on the upgrade list at boarding on an MD-90 from IND-ATL on a (non-holiday weekend) thursday a few weeks ago. Imagine how much worse it was on the 767-300 I connected to on ATL-LAX. My ticket was almost $600. So there is not a lot of champagne and first class in exchange for $250 tickets these days.

I see the change as good news for Silvers, though - just because of the free drinks in C+. And I gotta love that "quilted" padding. I hope it makes those MD-90/737 slip-and-slide slimlines more bearable.
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:40 am

Quoting a380787 (Reply 72):
Nearly everytime I've flown (on another airline) the elite upgrade list is larger than the entire F cabin (like ~40-60). Even if no one has paid F, no one has award F, no one deadheading, and no discount upgrades offered, the cabin can't even accommodate the list.

Did you at least get EC?

True, some of the core trunk routes can be horrifying (I recall MSP-SEA being 90+ upgrades last time I was on it) but I still sat in EC/C+ on that trip. I usually end up on the last flights of the day where a lot of elites don't want to get stuck on a connection, those seem to have the largest chance for an upgrade.
Northwest Airlines - Now You're Flying Smart
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:53 am

Upgrade percentage will vary wildly by route and by day.

Upgrade changes are much less to non-existand (even for Diamonds) on:
Peak day-of the week: Monday mornings, Thursday afternoons, Fridays
Business heavy markets - to hubs BOS, LGA, DCA, ORD, IND to DTW, MSP, ATL
West Coast to hubs - anything from LAX, SEA, SFO, SAN to DTW, MSP, ATL
Flights that connect to international flights (paid J/C passengers on the domestic segment)

Upgrade changes are much better: (Even for Silver)
Off-peak flights - Tuesdays, Wednesday, Saturday afternoons, Sunday mornings
Focus city flights - RDU, SEA, MEM, CVG, LGA flights (excluding routes to core hubs)
Flights that do not connect to international flights
 
PHX787
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:21 am

SO let me get this straight...I'm going to be paying more for my standard Y seat, or is it the same price and the Y- fare seat is just cheaper, with less control?

Quoting B747forever (Reply 3):
Delta One? That sounds terrible.

you're telling me. Sounds like the XBox One and we all know how much of a failure that is   

Quoting jetmarc (Reply 28):
I like the new seats!!

Me too, they look comfy.
Follow me on twitter: www.twitter.com/phx787
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:59 pm

Quoting PHX787 (Reply 79):

SO let me get this straight...I'm going to be paying more for my standard Y seat, or is it the same price and the Y- fare seat is just cheaper, with less control?

That is hard to truly define because of the very nature of how air fare is priced and associated inventory buckets.

Basic Economy (Y-) for the E fare class. This is only offered on select flights which are primarily routes from DL hubs with heavy ULCC/LCC (NK, F9, G4, SY) competition. Many are leisure markets, but a few are not.

This fare bucket has been available for some time, but comes with heavy restrictions. There are also many fare rules like 3 week advanced purchase and Saturday night stays to even be able to buy an E fare (Basic Economy).

On those routes, you can pay more than the lowest fare for more control/less restrictions.

You won't necessarily be paying more but you won't necessarily be paying less.
 
PSU.DTW.SCE
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:03 pm

WDIV / Ch. 4 in Detroit aired this story on their newscast last night at 11pm.

The teaser leading into the story was "A major airline is changing its cabins and get ready to pay more fees"

I watched the story and it was very topical and lowest-common denominator news, but the premise of the story was "that big-bad Delta is getting ready to screw you flyers again and charge more fees!"

I'm sure that is really how the DL marketing folks wanted this to be displayed in the media.

Then again the general public has the attention span of 30 seconds, so it will be much ado about nothing to them.
 
pasu129
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:07 pm

So... with DL launching Delta One on JFK - SFO/LAX route, can we stop the argument on AA's Domestic Transcon First class not making $?   
Viva Las Vegas
 
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airzim
Posts: 1419
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:22 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 82):






So... with DL launching Delta One on JFK - SFO/LAX route, can we stop the argument on AA's Domestic Transcon First class not making $?

No. Delta One is still their old Business Class J seat that is exactly what AA (and UA) has on their planes. It's just a rebranding.

American's First Class product still very much up for debate
 
AWACSooner
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:44 pm

My $$ is on this:
DL puts out that lowest tier economy service at the same rate you're paying for economy right now...so basically you're paying the same for less. There will not be an added value, you are just getting screwed more.
 
a380787
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:05 pm

Quoting airzim (Reply 83):

American's First Class product still very much up for debate

Here's my personal *anecdotal* experience on an early evening weekday JFK-LAX :

1. They board via 1L instead of 2L, so the initial premise of embarkation privacy didn't hold.
2. Wi-Fi is not comp'ed, even for paid F. I find it amusing that a $5000 paid F ticket cannot get $20 of Wi-Fi charge waived. Wi-Fi is also quite slow. Trying to use VPN into corporate network, I experienced significant latency (first world problems i know)
3. The aisles in F are *really* wide. To a point of space-wasting wide. Plus side is really good privacy in the cabin.
4. Catering and service didn't feel *significantly* more than J.
5. You're in the front of the cabin, so the galley light can be a real annoyance.
6. It's great for celebrity sighting - my friend on another 321T flight sat 2 seats from Britney.
7. 7 days before departure, the cabin was booked 4/10. At T-24 check-in it was about 7/10. It departed with 10/10 filled. Can't tell whether it's a bunch of last minute paid F or upgrades clearing. (my flight departed 100% full in all 3 cabins, so might be a case of op-ups too .. who knows)
 
OB1504
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:38 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 85):
1. They board via 1L instead of 2L, so the initial premise of embarkation privacy didn't hold.

2L boarding was discontinued due to the proximity of the door to the number 1 engine.
 
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bluefltspecial
Posts: 548
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RE: New Delta Cabin Announcement

Thu Dec 11, 2014 7:13 pm

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 86):
2L boarding was discontinued due to the proximity of the door to the number 1 engine.

Ugh, were there really that many cases of hitting the engine?
Save a horse, ride a Fly-boy....

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