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GBF
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Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:31 am

AA just changed some on board rules about economy class using first/busniness class lavatories and allow them to chat and stay in first/ business class cabins if they have family or fiends traveling there .
this is the response from Concierge Key manager about my complaint .

spoke with our manager for inflight policies and procedures earlier today, and I was advised that customers may visit with traveling companions, friends or family – or use the lavatory in another cabin – as long as the customers don’t interfere with the service delivery, violate the Fasten Seatbelt Sign, block the aisles or congregate in large groups. If the Flight Attendant or Purser is not comfortable with a congregation of customers or feels the customers are lingering for an extended period of time, the Flight Attendant should ask the customers to return to their assigned seat. If the customers do not comply, the Flight Attendant may notify the Captain. That’s the overview of the policies. Our inflight policies cover a variety of scenarios, but that should answer your question with more information.

as you can see protecting privacy and quietness of those who spent thousands of dollars for a first/business class cabin is never mentioned.

How can a coach class mentality inflight product manager be in charge of premium cabins?

US airlines first class are the Wal-Mart of the first class ...

Dissappointed
 
airliner371
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:34 am

I think it can be assumed that if the "visitor" is being loud or bothering other first class customers, the flight attendant will kick them out. I don't see this as a problem.
 
32andBelow
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 12:37 am

Tell me I can't use the lav in first when your in row 6 of the main cabin right after they start the drink service, and I will just use it anyways.
 
burchfiel
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:21 am

Quoting GBF (Thread starter):
if they have family or fiends traveling there .

If I were AA, I would NOT allow people in economy class to go and visit their fiends in first class. Think of the service disruption!   
 
ripcordd
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 1:49 am

Ohh the humanity of allowing Coach passengers in First
 
ozark1
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:10 am

Quoting GBF (Thread starter):
as you can see protecting privacy and quietness of those who spent thousands of dollars for a first/business class cabin is never mentioned.

So my gist is that you are complaining about people coming up there. I understand where you are coming from. If the passenger up there knows people in the back, they should go to the back to visit, not vice versa. People standing in the aisle visiting in First Class, at least in the confines of a narrow body forward section, would make me uncomfortable as a purser. Now, on a 2 aisle aircraft like the 767 or 777, there is more space to stand and move about and I don't have as much objection to that. However, again, you run the risk of disturbing people who did, indeed, pay a lot of money. I would allow it for a few minutes at the most. Using the lavatory is a different thing altogether. On an aircraft like the 737, or any plane for that matter, a P.A. is made to "please do not congregate in the aisles". As many people have forgotten, this isn't because you shouldn't be visiting with your friends in a different cabin. It's because of 9/11. It's because of 9/11. It's because of 9/11. So anyone is welcome to use the forward lavatory on my flight. However, they need to stand at the divider curtain and wait until the lav is free. At that point I would look into the cabin to see if anyone in the forward cabin was in need of the loo, and then, if no one was, motion the next person forward. A bodily function is different than a chat. But then, most people are easy going about all of this. But for those, like yourself, who get incensed, I would agree on the extended chat part, but not on the lavatory part. I don't want people standing in the aisle visiting, while others are waiting to use the lav.
 
reality
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 2:38 am

Quoting GBF (Thread starter):
Dissappointed

I've flown in AA domestic first class 50 or 60 times in the last 10 years, usually narrow body, and I've never noticed that coach passengers congregate in the first class section. I do notice that they go to the forward lavatory. But they are just passing though. I don't think this is an issue on most flights. Maybe your experience is different?
 
HKG212
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:27 am

Quoting ozark1 (Reply 5):
As many people have forgotten, this isn't because you shouldn't be visiting with your friends in a different cabin. It's because of 9/11. It's because of 9/11. It's because of 9/11.

The 9/11 problem was solved a month later with the fortification of cockpit doors. These few remaining "9/11" policies should go the way of the plastic knives. High on my list is the curtain -- when will US carriers bring back real curtains, not just to separate coach from business/first, but also seal off the galleys, with their significant noise and light pollution? To take one recent experience, I found that the lack of curtains seriously compromises much of the AA 77W first class experience.

I just don't get it. If it was an FAA rule, how come foreign carriers flying into the US all still have full curtain separation all over the plane? If it's not an FAA requirement, why hold on to these useless sheer curtains?
 
KD5MDK
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:39 am

In general, airline regulations are governed by the country they're registered in, not the country they fly to.
 
BoeingGuy
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:43 am

Quoting KD5MDK (Reply 8):
In general, airline regulations are governed by the country they're registered in, not the country they fly to.

That's not entirely true. For example, there are still a few carriers who allow passengers to visit the flight deck or ride in the jumpseat at the Captain's discretion. That may be legal in their country, but you can bet they aren't allowed to do that when they fly to the US. There are plenty of airspace requirements out there.
 
lpdal
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:49 am

Quoting GBF (Thread starter):
or use the lavatory in another cabin – as long as the customers don’t interfere with the service delivery, violate the Fasten Seatbelt Sign, block the aisles or congregate in large groups.

And this is up to the flight attendant to determine. I'm a frequent domestic first class passenger and have seen many a passenger attempt to push the curtain aside to gain access to the forward lav, only to be turned back by the flight attendant and told to use the lavatory in their assigned cabin of service. Try performing such shenanigans on Singapore, British Airways, Lufthansa, or Emirates. Not to mention, I'm not sure what the obsession over tiny, uncomfortable airplane bathrooms is (and bathrooms in general, for that matter), but it's a bit strange.

I find the comments about the widebody aircraft strange to an extent as well. Presumably, on an AA three class 772/773 and/or United three class 763/772, you'd have to walk past J in order to get to the F cabin. Most flight attendants I've seen wouldn't even let such people pass the last row of business class seats, especially on the AA 773 where there is a business class only bar between the mini J cabin and the main business cabin, with snacks intended for J class passengers set out. Not to mention I've seen Y class passengers attempt to take blankets, amenity kits, etc. while filing through premium cabins. In one case, a women tried to make off with a first class blanket on an US A319 only to be told that those blankets were intended for first class only and that there was a surcharge for one in Y.

I can compare an airline toilet to a cruise ship on a translantic crossing (any major cruise line you can think of does this) in the middle of the ocean. Many cruise ships don't have bathrooms everywhere on board (HAL does this real well), and some areas you'll have to walk a few minutes before you'll find a bathroom. If I'm stuck on suite deck 10 and the nearest bathroom is up a few files of stairs on Lido deck 12, I can't break down the door of penthouse suite 1023 to use the master bathroom and claim natural needs as my liability.

-LPDAL

[Edited 2014-12-09 19:50:52]
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:12 am

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 10):
I can compare an airline toilet to a cruise ship on a translantic crossing (any major cruise line you can think of does this) in the middle of the ocean. Many cruise ships don't have bathrooms everywhere on board (HAL does this real well), and some areas you'll have to walk a few minutes before you'll find a bathroom. If I'm stuck on suite deck 10 and the nearest bathroom is up a few files of stairs on Lido deck 12, I can't break down the door of penthouse suite 1023 to use the master bathroom and claim natural needs as my liability.

That is a very poor comparison. There is a huge difference between a boat's private suite bathroom and a public restroom on a plane. I'll agree that economy passengers should be discouraged from using premium cabin restrooms however if someone really needs to relieve themselves, it is inhumane to not allow them to use premium cabin restroom if that is all that is accessible or unoccupied...
 
lpdal
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:35 am

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 11):
however if someone really needs to relieve themselves, it is inhumane to not allow them to use premium cabin restroom if that is all that is accessible or unoccupied...

As in the OP, I am going off rules and how I've seen them enforced on my travels, not my own opinions of who shall be granted lavatory access and who should not. Doesn't matter if F isn't as luxurious as it was back in the old days, if the legroom was better back then, or if someone upgraded for "free" based on their status, rules are rules. I'd like to see some of these self proclaimed bathroom vigilantes try and strongarm the ME3 flight attendants, SQ, BA, LH, etc. it wouldn't be tolerated in the slightest. It appears that the majority of the logic applied in these lavatory discussions on the side opposite to my own is "I think the rule is inhumane, therefore, I don't have to follow it, and have the right to start a ruckus". If you want to change the policy, getting in a petty bathroom squabble with a flight attendant at cruise isn't the way to do it. Try writing to the CEO or the customer complaint division instead.

UA, AA, AS, VX, US, and DL all have a quip in each of their safety demonstrations that tells you that you are required to obey all placards and lighted signs, as well as all crew member instructions by federal law. The F/A's have authority over the passengers, and the flight attendants themselves submit to the pilots. So, if the F/A tells you to use the lavatory in your respective cabin, by federal law, at least in America, you are required to follow their instructions, no matter your personal opinions on the airlines' corporate policies and regulations.

-LPDAL

[Edited 2014-12-09 20:42:32]
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
PDXFlyBoy
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:51 am

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 12):
UA, AA, AS, VX, US, and DL all have a quip in each of their safety demonstrations that tells you that you are required to obey all placards and lighted signs, as well as all crew member instructions by federal law. The F/A's have authority over the passengers, and the flight attendants themselves submit to the pilots. So, if the F/A tells you to use the lavatory in your respective cabin, by federal law, at least in America, you are required to follow their instructions, no matter your personal opinions on the airlines' corporate policies and regulations.

Amen!!!
 
pasu129
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:06 pm

Quoting HKG212 (Reply 7):
why hold on to these useless sheer curtains?

One reason I can think of is their weight. Everything that weights costs money to airline, if they are to use nothing at all to cover their noise and light pollution, it costs them nothing. However, I agree that interrupts the whole First Class experience of quietness, but I think they recover that by having excellent service.

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 10):
Not to mention, I'm not sure what the obsession over tiny, uncomfortable airplane bathrooms is (and bathrooms in general, for that matter), but it's a bit strange.

I cannot say it more than I have in the past, people feel their physical needs can overrule whatever policies companies have in place, including Federal Regulations on not congregating around galleys and restrooms area.

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 11):
That is a very poor comparison. There is a huge difference between a boat's private suite bathroom and a public restroom on a plane. I'll agree that economy passengers should be discouraged from using premium cabin restrooms however if someone really needs to relieve themselves, it is inhumane to not allow them to use premium cabin restroom if that is all that is accessible or unoccupied...

Since when a restroom on planes are public bathrooms? I don't see anyone going to drive all the way to airport and get on a plane just to use their bathrooms.

As I have mentioned before in other threads, it should be determined case by case scenario. IF people are about to piss themselves (or the other one) on a plane, yes I much prefer them to use the premium cabin restroom to relieve themselves than soil themselves, however, it should NOT be encouraged and that should not be a norm for passengers on the same plane.

Recently flew on J class on CX, their business restrooms were full and I walked all the way to Y class to use the restroom. Discovered there are different amenities in the restrooms in different cabin class. Maybe that is also one of the reasons why airlines discourage passengers from Y to use premium cabin restrooms because of the amenities they provide.

Quoting PDXFlyBoy (Reply 13):

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 12):
UA, AA, AS, VX, US, and DL all have a quip in each of their safety demonstrations that tells you that you are required to obey all placards and lighted signs, as well as all crew member instructions by federal law. The F/A's have authority over the passengers, and the flight attendants themselves submit to the pilots. So, if the F/A tells you to use the lavatory in your respective cabin, by federal law, at least in America, you are required to follow their instructions, no matter your personal opinions on the airlines' corporate policies and regulations.

Amen!!!

Couldn't agree more. Physical needs do not overrule Federal Regulations. Follow the FA instructions or we'll drop you off in B-F-E!
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readytotaxi
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:28 pm

(humour)
Never mind the curtain, there should be a door between First and others and it should be locked.
First class board at the front, others board at the rear.
In the event of an emergency landing over water the First class raft should be fitted with a canopy and small beverage service while you are awaiting rescue.
 
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ckfred
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:58 pm

How is a coach passenger chatting with a seated passenger in first any different than say a passenger with seat assignment 1F on a domestic 757 standing in the aisle talking to his traveling companion (say a co-worker) seated in 4B?

It isn't.

I've been on flights where the parents are seated in first, while their teen-age kids are seated in coach. At some point, a kid will walk into first, or a parent walks back to coach to chat.

I was of the opinion that in the post 9/11 world, passengers weren't supposed to congregate, whether it's lining up for the lavatory or several passengers chatting with a passenger seated in the middle of the coach cabin.
 
Markam
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 4:41 pm

For illustration purposes, this is how "royalty" would address this issue:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUc9sXWRrV0

 

[Edited 2014-12-10 08:42:39]
 
AWACSooner
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:47 pm

Quoting pasu129 (Reply 14):
Everything that weights costs money to airline,

Good...then start charging folks their fares by their weight. After all, my 135 lbs shouldn't have to subsidize someone else's 250 lbs...oh wait, that's the same logic that the baggage fee folks use.   
 
FLY2LIM
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:33 pm

Quoting GBF (Thread starter):
spoke with our manager for inflight policies and procedures earlier today, and I was advised that customers may visit with traveling companions, friends or family – or use the lavatory in another cabin – as long as the customers don’t interfere with the service delivery, violate the Fasten Seatbelt Sign, block the aisles or congregate in large groups. If the Flight Attendant or Purser is not comfortable with a congregation of customers or feels the customers are lingering for an extended period of time, the Flight Attendant should ask the customers to return to their assigned seat. If the customers do not comply, the Flight Attendant may notify the Captain. That’s the overview of the policies. Our inflight policies cover a variety of scenarios, but that should answer your question with more information.

Am I the only one who has noticed that the responder didn't reveal any "new policy" to the thread starter? The statement says that, if the flight attendant or purser don't feel "comfortable" with any situation on the plane, they can enforce their authority and end the situation. Therefore, no rules have changed. The title of this thread is misleading.
Now, is the issue of economy passengers invading the first class cabin really a problem? I know that, occasionally, people go up and see friends or relatives traveling in front. But this is not a common problem.
Don't people have more important problems to worry about?
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RyanairGuru
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:59 pm

Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 11):
That is a very poor comparison. There is a huge difference between a boat's private suite bathroom and a public restroom on a plane. I'll agree that economy passengers should be discouraged from using premium cabin restrooms however if someone really needs to relieve themselves, it is inhumane to not allow them to use premium cabin restroom if that is all that is accessible or unoccupied

I agree.

A better comparison that LPDAL could have used was been caught out downtown, where the nearest public restrooms are three blocks away, and ducking into Starbucks to use theirs without buying a coffee. I know I shouldn't do this, and I generally try not to use a shop/bar/cafes restrooms without actually buying something, but sometimes the call of nature is too strong. We've all been there, and so long as nobody *abuses* the system too blatantly then I think it is something that we, as a society, should just let slide.c
Worked Hard, Flew Right
 
lpdal
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Wed Dec 10, 2014 11:40 pm

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):

I agree.

A better comparison that LPDAL could have used was been caught out downtown, where the nearest public restrooms are three blocks away, and ducking into Starbucks to use theirs without buying a coffee. I know I shouldn't do this, and I generally try not to use a shop/bar/cafes restrooms without actually buying something, but sometimes the call of nature is too strong. We've all been there, and so long as nobody *abuses* the system too blatantly then I think it is something that we, as a society, should just let slide.c

There seems to be a very basic misunderstanding within this logic: rules are required to be followed no matter what your personal opinion of the regulation is. If the flight attendant tells you to go back and use the Y class lavatory, you are required to do so. If the flight attendant tells you to remove the knee defender, you are required to do so. And, as I said, calling out a flight attendant over such problems is not only inappropriate, but disturbing. Write the CEO, complaint box, or what have you instead of stirring the pot potentially causing a physical altercation or heaven forbid, diverting the flight.

Quoting RyanairGuru (Reply 20):

We've all been there, and so long as nobody *abuses* the system too blatantly then I think it is something that we, as a society, should just let slide.

I've actually seen this first hand, and it's actually funny because it's the same 20 people walking in, buying nothing, using our facilities, and then walking right out every time I'm on the clock. Some even have the nerve to walk up and comment about our restrooms, which, compared to other establishments, are well lit and sparkling clean nearly 95% of the time. Just so you know, nobody, including myself, have any right to use privately owned restrooms. And I say that only because there seems to be some sort of confusion regarding the use of "public" when referring to bathrooms. Sorry, but no bathroom is "public" unless it is owned wholly by a municipality or government and clearly marked as such. That means that, even at 30,000 feet, that lavatory is the property of Delta Air Lines (or whoever) and for all intents and purposes, they have a right to forbid you from using it. As does Starbucks.

The curtain isn't there for decoration, it's there to separate the Y and F cabins, no matter which way you look at it. But, again, I really don't understand some of the outright creepy obsessions over bathrooms in general anyway.

-LPDAL

[Edited 2014-12-10 15:54:14]
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
ridgid727
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:41 am

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 21):
The curtain isn't there for decoration, it's there to separate the Y and F cabins, no matter which way you look at it. But, again, I really don't understand some of the outright creepy obsessions over bathrooms in general anyway

Yes it is, and I witnessed this very thing recently on a LH flight. A traveling mother had a child whining Pee pee mama, and the coach lavatories were full. The lady attempted to go thru to the front only to be "apprehended" and stopped by the flight attnednant, and returned to her seat to which the child relieved herself right in the seat. Was quite a site. So which is better for the flight attendants.. Clean up human excrement, or permit the child use the front lavatory? They all had to don protective gear to clean the seat up, which cause quite a stir throughout the rest of the cabin. But then again as you say rules are rules and this passenger obeyed the demands of the flight attendant.
 
Max752
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:13 am

I have to conflicting arguments.

For example the Boeing 757 is designed for a certain amount of passengers regardless of airline configuration so they assume 3 lavatories will allow all passengers to use the restroom as they please. Boeing doesn't care if your're first or coach they just count you as a body on-board.

However,

If an airline say like Virgin America (I believe does this) says that the forward lavatory is for premium passengers only than the airline's policy must be followed.

I have flown on over a hundred flights this year, 90% of them in first, and have never had this issue and when I do I don't really care unless they are obnoxious.

It's not like the Kirsten Wig Airplane scene in Bridesmaids where she waltzes up intoxicated and drugged. That just doesn't happen. I've seen families visit and it doesn't disrupt me. The thread starter seems to be a, excuse me for saying this, snooty flyer.
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Kashmon
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:20 am

he may or may not be snooty but

I'd sure love to see your attitude after a long flight where you were not allowed to sleep ( after hours of tiring work) due to "visitors"
 
32andBelow
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:06 am

You guys need to realize as soon as that cart comes out no one can get to the back bathrooms. Get over it, people need to take a piss.
 
lpdal
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Thu Dec 11, 2014 2:31 pm

Quoting ridgid727 (Reply 22):
Yes it is, and I witnessed this very thing recently on a LH flight. A traveling mother had a child whining Pee pee mama, and the coach lavatories were full. The lady attempted to go thru to the front only to be "apprehended" and stopped by the flight attnednant, and returned to her seat to which the child relieved herself right in the seat. Was quite a site. So which is better for the flight attendants.. Clean up human excrement, or permit the child use the front lavatory? They all had to don protective gear to clean the seat up, which cause quite a stir throughout the rest of the cabin. But then again as you say rules are rules and this passenger obeyed the demands of the flight attendant.

And rightly, that's what you're required to do: obey the instructions of the flight attendant. You can't bend the rules for anyone, because once the first guy does, the next one demands to have the rule bent for them, and it turns into a slippery slope quite rapidly. And, correct me if I'm wrong, but LH J and F lavatories, especially the F ones, have exclusive amenities inside (not to mention the roses inside) which are meant for first class passengers only.

As I've said, according various media anecdotes, some people find that the best way to challenge a policy is to call out a flight attendant or purser, who really don't make the rules, causing diversions and physical fights. If you're willing to put up a fight with a flight attendant or purser to use an airplane bathroom, that's your decision, but just know that they are fully within their rights to tell you that you cannot use it and enforce the rule.

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 25):

You guys need to realize as soon as that cart comes out no one can get to the back bathrooms. Get over it, people need to take a piss.

The sole person who will be "getting over it" in these sort of scenarios will be the individual who felt the need to start an altercation over an airplane bathroom as they are led up the jetway in handcuffs by the local sheriff's department at the NRST diversion point.

-LPDAL
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Thu Dec 11, 2014 3:08 pm

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 26):
The sole person who will be "getting over it" in these sort of scenarios will be the individual who felt the need to start an altercation over an airplane bathroom as they are led up the jetway in handcuffs by the local sheriff's department at the NRST diversion point.

I would love to see the PR fiasco for an airline arresting someone for using the restroom. If a flight attendant told me no, and I really needed to go I would just ignore them...
 
blueflyer
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Thu Dec 11, 2014 5:43 pm

To go back to the OP, leaving it up to the crew's discretion is the appropriate approach in my opinion. Allowing someone from coach to come up to a premium cabin for a quick chat is no different than the guy in 3C standing by his colleague's seat in 1B, to paraphrase someone else's example.

When the 3C passenger is leaning onto my seat to talk to his colleague and his august bottom is inches away from my face in 1C (real example), he has crossed the boundary of the acceptable and he is told, quite rightly, to go back to his seat. When mom and dad are upfront and the kids in the back and one of them keeps running back and forth in the middle of the night, the parents are told, quite rightly, to put an end to it pronto (another real example).

As for the use of bathrooms, if no one in the cabin is using it, I don't see the harm, but I do draw the line at being blocked into my seat by a line of passengers waiting their turn. On long-haul and/or widebody flights where lavatory size/equipment is part of the product differentiation, I understand fully airlines wanting to restrict access to those for whom it is intended.

One issue for flight attendants is that of perception. If a passenger disappears behind the forward curtain, presumably to use the bathroom, other passengers may witness, but most likely not hear, an interaction with a flight attendant, and if the attendant gives a positive response, the other passengers may infer that anyone can use the bathroom upfront while the first passenger may in fact have a valid excuse that the others don't. In that scenario, it is far easier for flight attendants to say No all the time.

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 21):
There seems to be a very basic misunderstanding within this logic: rules are required to be followed no matter what your personal opinion of the regulation is.

Go tell that to Rosa Parks. While I don't advocate ignorance of every rule, neither should you blind obedience. One of the way the powers that be, whether it is government or airline management, know how effective and perceived a rule is is in how it is adhered to and enforced.

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 21):
That means that, even at 30,000 feet, that lavatory is the property of Delta Air Lines (or whoever) and for all intents and purposes, they have a right to forbid you from using it. As does Starbucks.

Both companies, and their competitors within their industry, are required by law to have lavatories for their employees and customers. They can certainly prohibit non-customers from using them, but if someone were to sue an airline over something as ridiculous as bathroom access because they were denied the use of the front cabin restroom and had to wait, say 20 minutes, for the end of beverage service to use one at the rear of the aircraft, they find might a sympathetic judge or two, at least on the first round.

Quoting BoeingGuy (Reply 9):
That's not entirely true.

It is entirely true that, in general, as KD5MDK pointed out, the majority of airliner and airline regulations are country-of-origin/registration dependent. There are some regulations specific to airspace being crossed, but the fact that you can point to one, or ten, doesn't change the fact that it is entirely true that, in general, KD5MDK's post was correct.

[Edited 2014-12-11 10:16:57]
 
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mats
Posts: 561
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RE: Changes In AA Inflight Policies

Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:12 pm

I really think that individual discretion is the best policy. If you have a little kid, an elderly person, or someone who is clearly ill and there is a cart blocking access to an aft lavatory, it's just common sense to let the passenger use the forward lavatory.

On international flights TO the United States operated by US carriers, there is theoretically a federal law that prohibits passengers from entering the forward cabin unless the passenger has a seat assignment there. This includes airplanes with two business class cabins in the front of the airplane: passengers cannot enter the "A" cabin if they are seated in the "B" cabin, even if it is the same class of service. I have seen this very strictly and harshly enforced (even on outbound flights). And I have also seen it enforced with common sense and decorum.

The US carriers have either mesh curtains or no barriers at all, so the division between classes of service isn't as geographically restricted. Foreign carriers have opaque curtains that indicate an obvious distinction.

United has "nightclub" style velvet ropes on some aircraft. I think these are perfect, since the mesh curtain stays (permitting crew and air marshal visibility) but there is an obvious barrier.

American Airlines actually made the news some years ago when they announced that they would permit economy class passengers to use the first class lavatory. I'm guessing that this does not apply to inbound international flights.

My suggestion is to have stickers on seat backs indicating the closest exits and the closest lavatories. The sticker could also point to where the "Lavatory Occupied" sign is located (passengers never seem to observe this.) This would be useful in some forward cabins in which the flight deck door or crew rest can be misconstrued for a lavatory. If you're seated in the first row, you'll hear "Ma'am!" "Sir!" the entire flight from crew advising passengers that they're using the wrong door.

I think it would be nicer to have a map, or just ask the purser to point this out when he or she introduces himself or herself to the forward cabin passengers. Too bad many pursers stopped introducing themselves. It's a three-second speech that could make life easier for everyone. "The closest lavatories are behind you, and there is the the light that will tell you if the lavatory is free."

I actually suggested this to United after a long flight of "Ma'am!" "Ma'am!" They thanked me for the feedback, but they don't seem to recognize why this is an annoyance.

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