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jfklganyc
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UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:32 am

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...ines_port_authority_complaint.html


Apparently UA is peeved over fees at EWR which are much higher than JFK.

They also charge the bistate agency of using EWR fees on non aviation projects.
 
chrisp390
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:07 am

Good to see somebody finally taking action. Would be nice to see those fees go towards reinvestment in NYC's 3 major airports instead of WTC and other projects
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:06 am

The port Authority
dont even get me started, I hate everything they do. super corrupt, super expensive user fees, and everything they operate is disgustingly dirty.

UA could be totally right but the PA probably holds all the cards. They know united wants all those slots
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 1:32 pm

CO needed EWR a lot more than UA does. The whole airline was focused on EWR and IAH. Not the case with UA.

I guess UA feels they have more room to flex their muscles than CO did.

Anyone know why fees at EWR are so much higher than JFK? It can't be based on facilities, because EWR is ancient (not LGA ancient...but 70s ancient)

Pulaski Skyway debacle rests at the feet of Christie. That story broke several months ago.
 
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STT757
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 2:23 pm

They're piggy backing on an SEC investigation of the Governor for forcing the PA to divert funds from the Hudson Rail tunnel to the Pulaski Skyway and other NJ Highway projects. There's actually a law preventing the Port Authority from spending money on roads to the Holland Tunnel, which is where the Pulaski leads, strangely there's no such laws for highways that lead to the Lincoln Tunnel which is where the Christie administration is trying to argue the Pulaski leads to (it does not).

http://www.nj.com/jjournal-news/inde...anhattan_da_and_sec_probe_fun.html

Obviously there's no love lost between UA and Christie, see the whole ACY issue. However the PATH train extension to EWR, which apparently was tied somehow to UA launching ACY, is resolved as the Port Authority just this week awarded a $6 Million contract for professional technical services for the project. The services are for three years, which is when (2018) construction is scheduled to begin.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...e_extension_to_newark_liberty.html

On a side note I cannot wait to Governor Christie is out of office, the games he has played whether they be cancelling the Hudson tunnels and diverting those funds to NJ Highway projects to avoid raising the gas tax, or signing a law to fund NJ Pensions and then to renege a year later is autrocious behavior.
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ordbosewr
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:15 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
On a side note I cannot wait to Governor Christie is out of office, the games he has played whether they be cancelling the Hudson tunnels and diverting those funds to NJ Highway projects to avoid raising the gas tax, or signing a law to fund NJ Pensions and then to renege a year later is autrocious behavior.

Because his replacement is going to do so much better?!? Nope, all politicians do not serve the public they service themselves.
 
style
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:32 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
On a side note I cannot wait to Governor Christie is out of office, the games he has played whether they be cancelling the Hudson tunnels and diverting those funds to NJ Highway projects to avoid raising the gas tax, or signing a law to fund NJ Pensions and then to renege a year later is autrocious behavior.


Agreed with most of what you said up until this last paragraph. Cancelling the Hudson tunnels was the smartest thing he could have done, any budget overages would have been completely on the back of the NJ taxpayers. Why didn't the Feds or NY want to accept any cost overages as well, all parties involved would benefit from the additional tunnel. We all know the price tag is always greater than what they budget and estimate for so this was a no brainer.

As for avoiding an increase in the gas tax, this is the only tax in NJ that is surprisingly low. Do they really need to have the highest gas taxes in the nation as well? Property taxes, tolls, car insurance rates all rank among the highest in the country. I used to live in NJ, had to leave because it was just too expensive.

We can all have our differences on Christies approach and tactics, but can you really say the guy is worse than that crooked Corzine? Under his watch, state sales tax increase from 6% to 7%, toll increases that NJ is now experiencing were all signed into law under his watch. Not to mention how he brought down MF Global once he left the Governors office.

NJ is just all messed up, but I praise UA for atleast bringing an obvious issue to the forefront.
 
T5towbar
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:41 pm

The Port Authority is at it again...... Last Sunday, there was a toll increase to enter NYC. It costs a fortune for commuters with more increases in sight.

Everyone keeps forgetting about the costs of the Freedom Tower (One World Trade) that the Port footed that bill. Over budget and late. ( I keep calling it the big tower of hubris) But that building had to be built no matter what the costs. So everything else that wasn't life or death was put on hold. Airport improvements should have been made long time ago. Pretty much the only improvements that took place was the ones that the airlines made themselves.

You have two states with all of the political cronies and favors to get something done is not efficient. It is costly and corrupt.
Too many no show and cushy jobs for the politically connected as well. But the taxpayers have to foot the bill because they are a large entity that is rife with corruption and graft.

UA has every right to complain if there is a disparity in fees.

Quoting Reply 6):
We can all have our differences on Christies approach and tactics, but can you really say the guy is worse than that crooked Corzine? Under his watch, state sales tax increase from 6% to 7%, toll increases that NJ is now experiencing were all signed into law under his watch. Not to mention how he brought down MF Global once he left the Governors office.

All are crooked. On both sides. It started with Whitman though with her shell games and privatization schemes....
My only beef with Christie is what he said while running for office and after winning election with his "Open Letter To Teachers". Then went after them like it was no tomorrow. That isn't right. Be Honest.....oh, I forgot....he's a politician!!

[Edited 2014-12-12 09:48:55]
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:51 pm

Wow kudos to UA for taking on this greaseball of an organization -- Something CO would have never done. They used to bend over and take it from PANYNJ.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
caljn
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:44 pm

and everything they operate is disgustingly dirty.[/quote]


Ain't that the truth! The entire exterior of EWR, as well as the Air train, can use a good power wash!

And all that brown...ugh!
 
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OA412
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:05 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 3):
CO needed EWR a lot more than UA does. The whole airline was focused on EWR and IAH. Not the case with UA.

I guess UA feels they have more room to flex their muscles than CO did.

Meh. It may be true that UA has a larger number of hubs than CO did, but they're not going to close up shop at EWR or even cut flights in any meaningful way, and the Port Authority knows this. All things being equal, the Port Authority still has the upper hand in the situation.
Hughes Airwest - Top Banana In The West
 
UA444
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:17 pm

If it means moving flights to JFK, LGA, or IAD, awesome news.
 
style
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 7):
The Port Authority is at it again...... Last Sunday, there was a toll increase to enter NYC. It costs a fortune for commuters with more increases in sight.

It's never ending. But until the public starts speaking up and holding the politicians accountable nothing will change. The PA does not serve the purpose it was created for. It has become an agency that keeps looking to get bigger and bigger without any meaningful improvement to the transportion sector.

Quoting OA412 (Reply 10):
Meh. It may be true that UA has a larger number of hubs than CO did, but they're not going to close up shop at EWR or even cut flights in any meaningful way, and the Port Authority knows this. All things being equal, the Port Authority still has the upper hand in the situation.

        

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 7):
All are crooked. On both sides

The absolute truth...
 
deltal1011man
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:38 pm

Quoting UA444 (Reply 11):
JFK, LGA,

It doesn't mean that for sure.

1) Port controls those too
2) no slots
 
Lostmoon744
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:39 pm

PANYNJ is the biggest mafia outfit in the NY/NJ area. The amount of corruption, pork, and graft that happens here is incredible by its own reputation.
 
corinthians
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:52 pm

Quoting Reply 6):
As for avoiding an increase in the gas tax, this is the only tax in NJ that is surprisingly low. Do they really need to have the highest gas taxes in the nation as well? Property taxes, tolls, car insurance rates all rank among the highest in the country. I used to live in NJ, had to leave because it was just too expensive.

Just curious, but did you leave NJ for the UK and to London? I used to live in London and while NY/NJ might expensive, they pale in comparison to London. London is just insane.

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 7):
The Port Authority is at it again...... Last Sunday, there was a toll increase to enter NYC. It costs a fortune for commuters with more increases in sight.

That's one of the reasons I have to turn down a job in Ft. Lee. I can't move out there for a while and taking public transit from Northeastern Queens is out of the question unless I want a two hour commute. I could drive, but the tolls would be ridiculous.

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 7):
Everyone keeps forgetting about the costs of the Freedom Tower (One World Trade) that the Port footed that bill. Over budget and late. ( I keep calling it the big tower of hubris) But that building had to be built no matter what the costs. So everything else that wasn't life or death was put on hold. Airport improvements should have been made long time ago. Pretty much the only improvements that took place was the ones that the airlines made themselves.

Yeah, which is why JFK is the only airport that's had new terminals within the last ten years.

Also, don't forget Port's personnel spending. Average Port cop makes about $110,000 a year. And for what? Just to scare spotters and photographers away?
 
jfk777
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Fri Dec 12, 2014 10:56 pm

Quoting corinthians (Reply 15):
Yeah, which is why JFK is the only airport that's had new terminals within the last ten years.

The new third pier at terminal V, the UA terminal
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:45 am

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 16):

That is actually 12.5 years old now.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Sat Dec 13, 2014 1:49 am

Quoting corinthians (Reply 15):
Also, don't forget Port's personnel spending. Average Port cop makes about $110,000 a year. And for what? Just to scare spotters and photographers away?

It's not just the Port Authority that has these insane cop salaries. A well off town I grew up in Northern NJ starts cops off around 90K and all they do is pull over speeders and drunk drivers. A total waste of resources when they could be in Newark actually fighting crime.

This kind of crap is certainly a factor why I choose not to live and pay NJ taxes anymore. Not that it's especially better in CA, but it's NOT NJ.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
caljn
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:05 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 18):
It's not just the Port Authority that has these insane cop salaries. A well off town I grew up in Northern NJ starts cops off around 90K and all they do is pull over speeders and drunk drivers. A total waste of resources when they could be in Newark actually fighting crime.

This kind of crap is certainly a factor why I choose not to live and pay NJ taxes anymore. Not that it's especially better in CA, but it's NOT NJ.

So...your point is we should not have cops? Or we should pay them a salary you deem commensurate with their work load?
And you get what you pay for. I'd rather raise and educate my children in NJ or CA rather than some "lower tax" state...you know, the one's that always seem to land on the bottom of most quality of life lists, re: education, divorce, drug and alcohol abuse etc.
I would only select a "low tax" state when I am retired and on a fixed income (and no longer "contributing")
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Sat Dec 13, 2014 2:36 am

Quoting caljn (Reply 19):


Then what are you doing living in LA?

Well clearly we are not going to agree. The NJ public worker pension system is bloated enough. Why pay cops who do jack in a small town insane amounts of money?

FYI: California has good public schools as well. This is coming from someone who wen to public school throughout K-12 in Northern NJ. It's overrated, overcrowded, and expensive.

"you know, the one's that always seem to land on the bottom of most quality of life lists, re: education, divorce, drug and alcohol abuse etc. "

As if NJ doesn't have a problem with poverty, corruption or (gee wizz) divorce and alcohol abuse? Isn't that every state in the US?

[Edited 2014-12-12 18:37:35]
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
caljn
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:57 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 20):
Then what are you doing living in LA?

Well clearly we are not going to agree. The NJ public worker pension system is bloated enough. Why pay cops who do jack in a small town insane amounts of money?

FYI: California has good public schools as well. This is coming from someone who wen to public school throughout K-12 in Northern NJ. It's overrated, overcrowded, and expensive.

"you know, the one's that always seem to land on the bottom of most quality of life lists, re: education, divorce, drug and alcohol abuse etc. "

As if NJ doesn't have a problem with poverty, corruption or (gee wizz) divorce and alcohol abuse? Isn't that every state in the US?

I think you missed my point...I was defending so-called high tax states, including CA and NJ. As I said, you get what you pay for. High tax 'blue' states typically have a more educated, wealthy population.
Now back on topic. I think we can agree, the PA needs to go.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:14 am

Quoting caljn (Reply 21):

Blue states means more bang for the buck? Is that why so many are fed up in the NE and end up moving to the sunbelt? More of an elitist mentality, I suppose. I see many people in NJ who are "blue" and defend the state only too clouded to realize that NJ is total rip off. Just because it's blue doesn't mean it's a whale of a deal either.

The PA does need to go. Unfortunately, that is never going to happen as long as the mafia exists.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
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STT757
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Sat Dec 13, 2014 3:52 pm

Quoting Reply 6):

Agreed with most of what you said up until this last paragraph. Cancelling the Hudson tunnels was the smartest thing he could have done, any budget overages would have been completely on the back of the NJ taxpayers.

Just for a moment lets reflect on this, the cost over run concern is something Christie cites time and again. But is is an accurate statement? Is it documented anywhere in the Draft DEIS, Enginering, Planning, Enviromental studies etc.. that even though the Port Authority was putting up a third of the $9 Billion, and the Feds were putting up a third that anything above and beyond the estimated price tag would not also have been shared amongst the three parties?

Since the Rail Tunnel Cristie has directed the Port Authority to spend $1 Billion to raise the Bayonne Bridge, $1 Billion to repair certain North Jersey roads around Kearney, and $1 Billion to renovate the Pulaski Skyway. The Port is also spending $1.5 Billion on a new PATH extension to EWR and other projects. His predecessor got the Port Authority to spend $500 Million for a NJ Transit rail spur to the Meadowlands, the Port Authority has financed half of the rail cars in the NJ Transit rail fleet. They also finance new NJ Transit buses.

The Governor of New Jersey has had unimpeded power to compel the Port Authority in the past to spend Billions on New Jersey projects outside of the realm of the Port's Authority. Yet he, and his apoliogist, would have us believe that if the Hudson rail tunnel were to go over budget, like all other public works projects, that the Governor of New Jersey was powerless to be able compel the other two parties to the project to also chip in to the over runs?

If an aide to the Governor can call the Port Authority and have them shut down lanes to the busiest Bridge in the World, I think the Governor (who controls half the Port Authority) would have been able to have the Port share the cost over runs as I think he would have been able to do with the Federal Government.

The World Trade Center PATH station is more than double the original estimated costs, who paid that, not the States of New York or New Jersey.
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United_fan
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Sat Dec 13, 2014 4:03 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 18):
It's not just the Port Authority that has these insane cop salaries. A well off town I grew up in Northern NJ starts cops off around 90K and all they do is pull over speeders and drunk drivers. A total waste of resources when they could be in Newark actually fighting crime.

Yes,well.speeders and drunks bring the almighty $$$$$ 's in . That's all government cares about. There's no money fighting real crime . Most cops are scared of a real criminal .
"Suspicion is a matter of opinion"
 
global2
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:21 pm

Question 1: Has the PA ever attempted to explain or justify exactly why the fees at EWR need to be so much higher than JFK? How does this make any sense at all? Why isn't Christie himself under fire for this, or giving the appearance of raising holy hell over the fact that NJ's airport is at such a disadvantage to NY's?

Question 2: Christie makes a huge point that he will not raise NJ's gas tax, the lowest in the nation, under any circumstances. Is the outrageous toll to cross the PA's bridges and tunnels to New York in essence not a huge tax burden on New Jersey residents? I mean $14!!! (Yeah, I know it's a bit less for EZPass). How many other bridges in this country (besides the Verazzano) have a toll approaching this amount? What does it cost to cross the Golden Gate?
 
style
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Sat Dec 13, 2014 6:57 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 23):
Just for a moment lets reflect on this, the cost over run concern is something Christie cites time and again.
Quoting STT757 (Reply 23):
Yet he, and his apoliogist, would have us believe that if the Hudson rail tunnel were to go over budget, like all other public works projects, that the Governor of New Jersey was powerless to be able compel the other two parties to the project to also chip in to the over runs?



I don't know any politician, in this case his counterpart Cuomo being compelled to chip in and take money out of his budget to "assist" NJ in any cost overruns. What NY taxpayer would be ok with extra taxes to "assist" NJ? I'm not defending Christie, I think he's just another politician with greater ambitions. But I guess my point is NJ's already plagued with huge costs and budget shortfalls, anything to add to that is just plain bad news.

Quoting global2 (Reply 25):
Question 2: Christie makes a huge point that he will not raise NJ's gas tax, the lowest in the nation, under any circumstances. Is the outrageous toll to cross the PA's bridges and tunnels to New York in essence not a huge tax burden on New Jersey residents? I mean $14!!! (Yeah, I know it's a bit less for EZPass). How many other bridges in this country (besides the Verazzano) have a toll approaching this amount? What does it cost to cross the Golden Gate?



I don't think anyobdy disagrees with this example of the toll crossings being a huge tax burden for both NJ and NY residents. But does that mean NJ has to raise its gas tax too? The whole premise of raising the gas tax because it's one of the lowest in the country is ludicrous! Everything else in the state is the equivalent of highway robbery.

Quoting corinthians (Reply 15):
Just curious, but did you leave NJ for the UK and to London? I used to live in London and while NY/NJ might expensive, they pale in comparison to London. London is just insane.



Born in London, still in the states but now in NC.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:34 pm

Quoting Reply 26):
The whole premise of raising the gas tax because it's one of the lowest in the country is ludicrous! Everything else in the state is the equivalent of highway robbery.

That's why he won't raise it.

NY/NJ...how much more? Seriously? Luckily Cuomo is holding back the new radical mayor Diblasio in NYC. He would take us right to European lifestyle with 50% taxes. And look how well they are doing!!!!

I have lived here my whole life...there does not need to be ONE NEW TAX ON ANYTHING ANYWHERE PERIOD.

Instead, government workers have to get real with the new reality in America: replace pensions with 401 k s and pay 20-30% of healthcare premiums. THAT IS THE PREVAILING WAGE IN THE USA today.

Until then, Jersey will be broke and their roads will be crappy.

Understand, NY gets away with all this because of Wall Street. Jersey is tiny and doesn't have the resources (they are a wealthy state but small) to deal with the runaway costs of union contracts from yesteryear.

I frankly think the high tolls are great. Subway too. Raise the fare to $5. Make the toll $20. Then tell John Q Public why they are riding/driving on ancient infrastructure and paying through the nose to do it!

Then EVERYONE (from the Park Ave Richie Rich to the South Bronx tenement dweller) will become educated and involved the next time the MTA goes on strike or the PAPD wants a raise or the unions want union labor for road construction.
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:32 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 27):
Instead, government workers have to get real with the new reality in America: replace pensions with 401 k s and pay 20-30% of healthcare premiums. THAT IS THE PREVAILING WAGE IN THE USA today.

Until then, Jersey will be broke and their roads will be crappy.

Understand, NY gets away with all this because of Wall Street. Jersey is tiny and doesn't have the resources (they are a wealthy state but small) to deal with the runaway costs of union contracts from yesteryear.

I frankly think the high tolls are great. Subway too. Raise the fare to $5. Make the toll $20. Then tell John Q Public why they are riding/driving on ancient infrastructure and paying through the nose to do it!

Exactly! I couldn't agree more.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
Pyrex
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:30 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 1):
Good to see somebody finally taking action.

You know what, am really divided about this. On one hand, as a resident of Northern NJ, I hate the Port Authority with all my guts and would love nothing more than to see it destroyed and its leadership imprisoned. On the other hand, seeing United complaining to anyone about fees just sounds, well, ironic.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 2):

The port Authority
dont even get me started, I hate everything they do. super corrupt, super expensive user fees, and everything they operate is disgustingly dirty.

Not true. The PATH trains actually do tend to be pretty clean. That said, though, it does still enjoy the trademark PA crap service, and I am convinced the only reason they are clean is because the PA needed all the dirt, grime and piss they could get their hands on to make the Port Authority bus terminal just that much more special.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 3):
CO needed EWR a lot more than UA does. The whole airline was focused on EWR and IAH. Not the case with UA.

I guess UA feels they have more room to flex their muscles than CO did.

Unfortunately that is just not how things work with government monopolies. If there is one thing the Port Authority does NOT know how to do, it is to be accountable to anyone, least of all a client.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):

They're piggy backing on an SEC investigation of the Governor for forcing the PA to divert funds from the Hudson Rail tunnel to the Pulaski Skyway and other NJ Highway projects. There's actually a law preventing the Port Authority from spending money on roads to the Holland Tunnel, which is where the Pulaski leads, strangely there's no such laws for highways that lead to the Lincoln Tunnel which is where the Christie administration is trying to argue the Pulaski leads to (it does not).

Ironically, improving / fixing the Pulaski does have a significant impact on the accessibility of EWR, though.

Quoting STT757 (Reply 4):
However the PATH train extension to EWR, which apparently was tied somehow to UA launching ACY, is resolved

It will be resolved when the first train with paying passengers (probably at a much inflated fare) arrives in EWR. Of course, by then probably everyone will be riding around in self-driving flying cars, so being able to access an airport will not be a consideration.

Quoting Reply 6):
As for avoiding an increase in the gas tax, this is the only tax in NJ that is surprisingly low. Do they really need to have the highest gas taxes in the nation as well? Property taxes, tolls, car insurance rates all rank among the highest in the country

A lot of people won't be happy until they get their greedy paws on every last cent other people make.

Quoting Reply 6):
We can all have our differences on Christies approach and tactics, but can you really say the guy is worse than that crooked Corzine? Under his watch, state sales tax increase from 6% to 7%, toll increases that NJ is now experiencing were all signed into law under his watch. Not to mention how he brought down MF Global once he left the Governors office.

Pretty much...

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 7):
You have two states with all of the political cronies and favors to get something done is not efficient. It is costly and corrupt.
Too many no show and cushy jobs for the politically connected as well. But the taxpayers have to foot the bill because they are a large entity that is rife with corruption and graft.

The Port Authority should just be broken up. Auction off the airports and the bridges/tunnels, merge the PATH system with the MTA and just hand over the keys to the actual Port itself to the Gambino family (save the middlemen of having to go through the longshoremen's union).

Quoting Lostmoon744 (Reply 14):
PANYNJ is the biggest mafia outfit in the NY/NJ area. The amount of corruption, pork, and graft that happens here is incredible by its own reputation.

It really is incredible that even as far as government entities are concerned the PANYNJ is notoriously corrupt.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 20):
The NJ public worker pension system is bloated enough. Why pay cops who do jack in a small town insane amounts of money?

Dude, as bad as it gets, it can't beat Nassau County in Long Island.

http://longisland.newsday.com/templa...desc=yes&pid=173&currentRecord=101

Quoting caljn (Reply 21):
As I said, you get what you pay for.

Crappy public schools, third-world infrastructure and a general inability to get anything done because of widespread union influence?

That does seem to be a problem among liberals in the Northeast, the inability to understand that "because of" and "despite of" are not the same thing.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 22):
More of an elitist mentality, I suppose

Typical NY mentality.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 27):
NY/NJ...how much more? Seriously? Luckily Cuomo is holding back the new radical mayor Diblasio in NYC. He would take us right to European lifestyle with 50% taxes

You know how bad things are in NYC when a) a Spitzer-wannabe like Cuomo actually has to be the adult in the room and b) a repeat dickpic-tweeterer was actually the sane mayoral choice.
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toxtethogrady
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Mon Dec 15, 2014 2:57 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 3):
I guess UA feels they have more room to flex their muscles than CO did.

It backfired on them in Houston, as they gave away market share to Spirit and Southwest.

Maybe Chris Christie needs to tell them to sit down and shut up.
 
T5towbar
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:27 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 30):

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 3):
I guess UA feels they have more room to flex their muscles than CO did.

It backfired on them in Houston, as they gave away market share to Spirit and Southwest.

Maybe Chris Christie needs to tell them to sit down and shut up.

It's not about "flexing any muscles". It's about treating one of your revenue generators in a fair manner.
Funds were and still are diverted for other projects and not directed in any matter to the airports. It's a legitimate beef. Like I posted before, the only improvements made were by the airlines themselves. (ie: DL @ JFK or UA @ EWR; etc.) There has been runway work in the last few years or so, but that's it. The terminals @ LGA and EWR was supposed to be in the Port's "Master Plan", but like I keep saying, everything was on hold until One World Trade got built. That was a political decision which diverted a lot of funding and had to be built no matter what the cost.

That can't be disputed.

All parties need to sit down and come up with rational solutions.
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NickLAX
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:29 pm

No matter how much I dislike politics, this one strikes me a little odd. What real options does UA have here other than giving marketshare away in the NYC market. Really support JFK? You sure with the limited space unless BA moves out of the shared terminal. LGA? Seriously no room at all and no slots.

Isn't this the pot calling the kettle black? From CO's EWR hub to UA we've seen a vastly downgraded carrier and they have the gaul to call the Port Authority out on Fee's?
 
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STT757
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:36 pm

Quoting NickLAX (Reply 32):
From CO's EWR hub to UA we've seen a vastly downgraded carrier and they have the gaul to call the Port Authority out on Fee's?

Can you expand on this, what do you mean? They're the same size flight wise, if anything they have more widebodies flights (especially trans-Atlantic) now then they did before the merger.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
toxtethogrady
Posts: 1861
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:50 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 27):
Then EVERYONE (from the Park Ave Richie Rich to the South Bronx tenement dweller) will become educated and involved the next time the MTA goes on strike or the PAPD wants a raise or the unions want union labor for road construction.

Well, we saw what happened when Congress stuck a nice plum into the budget deal to benefit the banks by having the taxpayers bail them out when their derivatives turn sour. Can't blame that on unions.
 
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STT757
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Mon Dec 15, 2014 3:53 pm

Quoting toxtethogrady (Reply 30):
It backfired on them in Houston, as they gave away market share to Spirit and Southwest.

It's worked brilliantly in Denver, they've reduced their costs at Denver by $35 Million per year.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:08 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 33):
Can you expand on this, what do you mean? They're the same size flight wise, if anything they have more widebodies flights (especially trans-Atlantic) now then they did before the merger.

You know very well what he means by this. CO was a little gem in the 90s and 2000s. EWR was their crowne jewel.

You know that, you were their biggest fan on a.net!


UA has had the website untied.com for many many years before during and after merger.
 
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N62NA
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Mon Dec 15, 2014 4:48 pm

Quoting Reply 6):
Cancelling the Hudson tunnels was the smartest thing he could have done, any budget overages would have been completely on the back of the NJ taxpayers.

Yep. Even I know that (and I live in Florida!). It's surprising how many people living in NJ aren't aware of this.

Quoting slcdeltarumd11 (Reply 2):
everything they operate is disgustingly dirty.

I wouldn't say that, though on Friday I was at gate A-12 for an Air Canada flight and the seat cushions had all split open so you could see the foam stuffing inside. How much could it possibly cost to put some new seats in the A-1 satellite? As I sat there, I reminisced that I had probably sat on the exact same seat at the gate that I sat on when I took all those UA DC-10s from EWR to ORD in the 80s.  
Quoting global2 (Reply 25):
Question 1: Has the PA ever attempted to explain or justify exactly why the fees at EWR need to be so much higher than JFK? How does this make any sense at all? Why isn't Christie himself under fire for this, or giving the appearance of raising holy hell over the fact that NJ's airport is at such a disadvantage to NY's?

A good question.
 
chrisp390
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:14 pm

Why have people not talked to their local elected officials and tried to get some change at the Port Authority. It seems insane in a democratic free society that something as corrupt and inefficient as the PA still exists
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Mon Dec 15, 2014 5:46 pm

Quoting chrisp390 (Reply 38):
Why have people not talked to their local elected officials and tried to get some change at the Port Authority. It seems insane in a democratic free society that something as corrupt and inefficient as the PA still exists

It was created by an act of congress (national level)

And it is staffed as patronage jobs for governors (state level)

And it is used for patronage projects (local level)

The politicos like it just the way it is!

A few years ago Senator Schumer actually wanted the Port to takeover the new Penn Station projects. I almost fell over laughing. He argued they could get it done. You think that politicians are informed...they are not.


In fairness to the PANYNJ, they are not the worst operator in the nation. That goes to Massport.

At least the PANYNJ is smart enough to allow private companies (airlines) build if they have their own funding. That's how JFK got rebuilt.

Massport actually shoots airlines in the foot that are trying to build in BOS. I still can't believe they insisted on Delta using E for international flights. BIZARRE!
 
T5towbar
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:01 pm

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 39):
It was created by an act of congress (national level)

Yes. A Bi-State agency with the two Governors running it.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 39):
And it is staffed as patronage jobs for governors (state level)

Yes. And a lot of very unqualified people gotten jobs thru it. All of the no-show jobs for cronies.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 39):
And it is used for patronage projects (local level)

Yes. A very large one on a State and Local levels.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 39):
The politicos like it just the way it is!

A great cash cow for the politicians. Not so great for us taxpayers

The problem is that piecing it out would be just as inefficient or worse. The Port is a very large agency that politics really makes it a large problem. Getting rid of the self serving politicians is the answer, but that's not gonna happen. This agency needs a through audit. Like the Federal Reserve. (but that is for another topic........)
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Mon Dec 15, 2014 6:51 pm

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 31):
All parties need to sit down and come up with rational solutions.

Which is not going to happen. You are forgetting the parties involved are incompetant: The Port Authority, United Airlines (Smisek), & The State of New Jersey involved. Whatever they come up with is going to be backwards & irrational.

Quoting NickLAX (Reply 32):
From CO's EWR hub to UA we've seen a vastly downgraded carrier and they have the gaul to call the Port Authority out on Fee's?

I mean, that's debatable. It was always a conjested mess with surly staff & delays. The only difference is the fact that everything has been rebranded as United.

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 29):
Crappy public schools, third-world infrastructure and a general inability to get anything done because of widespread union influence?

Pretty much. Working as a public worker in the Tri-State Area is almost viewed as an accomplishment -- whereas in other parts of the country it's viewed as a handicap.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:02 pm

Quoting Pyrex (Reply 29):
You know what, am really divided about this. On one hand, as a resident of Northern NJ, I hate the Port Authority with all my guts and would love nothing more than to see it destroyed and its leadership imprisoned. On the other hand, seeing United complaining to anyone about fees just sounds, well, ironic.

Yes you definitely have a point. On one hand, PANYNJ helped CO create a major hub that evolved into a fortress. The Port Authority didn't have to give them all that they wanted -- but they did. They could have easily thrown up their arms and said "No. Not fair to other carriers." But they were certainly more than generous to CO over the years in helping the airport get completely conjested and allowing them to add ERJ & Q400 feeder flights left and right.

Now UA being the cheap carrier that they are wants to get their way on this one. I personally don't see it happening.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
Curiousflyer
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:45 am

I keep reading the PANYNJ is corrupt, but can we have actual examples of kickbacks paid to them?

Not that I want to defend them but it is a strong word so I am surprised journalists don't bring upbrhe dirt after all thise years.

As a user though I fully agree: it sucks. Employees and passengers despise each other, facilities are abysmal, ground transportation is from another world.
 
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STT757
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:08 pm

Quoting curiousflyer (Reply 43):
I keep reading the PANYNJ is corrupt, but can we have actual examples of kickbacks paid to them?


There is no corruption like kickbacks or bribes.

There may be croonism, patronage etc.. and there sure is massive Politicalization of operations. Both the Governor's of New York and New Jersey have abused their powers with the Port Authority. The worst offenders being former NY Governor Pataki and current New Jersey Governor Christie.

The salary of Port Authority employees is not out of line with the rest of the public sector in the region. PAPD tops out at $95,000. I believe the average municipal police officer salary in NJ is $90,000.

http://www.nj.com/news/index.ssf/201...j_police_salaries_rank_highes.html

What is out of whack, and where these accusations come from, is that the overtime at the Port Authority is insane.

The overtime issue is due to the small size of the PA Police force when compared to the facilities they are tasked with protecting. The Port Authority facilities have been, and will continue, to be prime targets for terrorism. Which means they have more intensiive sercurity, staffing needs. Combine that with attrition due to baby boomers retiring in record numbers and you have the makings of an overtime beast.

When it comes to overtime though you have to keep two things in mind.

First while paying a PAPD officer $60,000 in overtime on a $95,000 a year salary may seem crazy. Keep in mind it's still cheaper to pay existing officers massive amounts of overtime than it is to hire, train and retain a larger police force. A larger police force would reduce overtime, but you would have to pay for their heatlh costs, retirement, disability etc...

Second overtime is not always wanted by the officers. Much of the overtime PAPD officers do is mandated, meaning their relief called out sick and there was no one else available to relieve them. So instead of going home to have dinner with their families, or to pick up the kids from school, the officers are stuck on their posts for 16 hours and having to struggle to resolve childcare/family issues.

There are even times during snowstorms etc.. where officers may end up doing triples. I would love to see some of the poeple complaining about law enforcement to do 16-24 hours on their feet patrolling the Holland Tunnel or the George Washington bridge during a Winter like we had last year.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
T5towbar
Posts: 458
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 2:06 am

RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:04 pm

Quoting curiousflyer (Reply 43):
I keep reading the PANYNJ is corrupt, but can we have actual examples of kickbacks paid to them?

Not that I want to defend them but it is a strong word so I am surprised journalists don't bring upbrhe dirt after all thise years.

As a user though I fully agree: it sucks. Employees and passengers despise each other, facilities are abysmal, ground transportation is from another world.

The agency is not "corrupt" in those terms. The politics of two states and a lot of cronies make it feel that way. That's politics in America. The number one rule in politics: After winning any election, you first task before anything else is to look after your cronies and give them jobs. Even if the are grossly unqualified for the job.

To the public, it feels like nothing is getting done for all of the increasing tolls that they collect.

Now that One World Trade is done, I feel that another increase on the PATH is in order......
What I would like to know is how much revenue (and occupants) that OWT would generate?
A comment from an Ex CON: Work Hard.....Fly Standby!
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:47 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 44):
First while paying a PAPD officer $60,000 in overtime on a $95,000 a year salary may seem crazy. Keep in mind it's still cheaper to pay existing officers massive amounts of overtime than it is to hire, train and retain a larger police force. A larger police force would reduce overtime, but you would have to pay for their heatlh costs, retirement, disability etc...

Or they could have less cops and public workers and actually fix the highways and service roads that get dinged up in the winter time.

It's threads like these that make happy I live in California and not NJ anymore.

Quoting T5towbar (Reply 45):
The agency is not "corrupt" in those terms. The politics of two states and a lot of cronies make it feel that way.

You are correct. Why would "kickback" information ever be public on the internet?
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
airliner371
Posts: 2404
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RE: UA Takes On Panynj At EWR

Wed Dec 24, 2014 6:43 am

This is an interesting interview.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZpN5dL8j_0

Towards the end, the PANYNJ Chair says that if United, and I am paraphrasing here, stops slot squatting at EWR, they the Port Authority would be happy to lower United's fees.

I think this brings up an interesting discussion. The PANYNJ and the FAA should figure out a way to stop airlines from slot squatting. If we figure out a way to put an end to this, there will be more flights, more travelers which means more visitors to stimulate local economies in NY/NJ and the cities with added flights, and lower fares. I think this is an issue, that if delt with correctly, can truly benefit New York and the entire nation.

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