London Airspace Closed

Vanguard · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:32 pm

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-30454240

Catastrophic computer failure!

sccutler · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:38 pm

Until 1900 UTC! That is a lifetime in ops time.

winterlight · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:40 pm

Get them drones out and enjoy the empty sky.

AirPacific747 · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:40 pm

At work and affected by this issue. We've been given a slot time in 3 hours time from now.. Hopefully it will be resolved soon.

kdhurst380 · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:40 pm

Looks like mixed mode arrivals at the moment to help alleviate some of the ground congestion, it's building up very quickly.

Be interesting to see how Europe's busiest and most congested airport(s) deal with this.

Tchocky · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:41 pm

Yeah we're slowing traffic down as far back as the Danish border. Going to be an interesting evening in ops.

SKAirbus · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:43 pm

What does this actually involve? I can still see planes approaching LHR over London on Flightradar24. Will planes now be diverted?

kdhurst380 · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:45 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 6):
What does this actually involve? I can still see planes approaching LHR over London on Flightradar24. Will planes now be diverted?

Arrivals seems to be unaffected (for now). Nothing however is departing, looks like some aircraft are crossing 09R/27L to park on the cargo apron.

According to the LHR website, it's due to a power outage at NATS Swanwick.

[Edited 2014-12-12 07:46:59]

Thunderboltdrgn · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:47 pm

Quoting kdhurst380 (Reply 7):

According to the LHR website, it's a power outage at NATS Swanwick.

So it seems: http://www.nats.aero/news/swanwick-technical-failure/

winterlight · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:48 pm

Quoting kdhurst380 (Reply 7):
According to the LHR website, it's a power outage at NATS Swanwick.

Or power cut for those who haven't converted to American.

RickNRoll · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:50 pm

Quoting sccutler (Reply 1):
Until 1900 UTC! That is a lifetime in ops time.

I don't believe the time could be known to the minute. As for power failure, someone hasn't been managing their infrastructure properly.

kdhurst380 · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:51 pm

Quoting winterlight (Reply 9):

Or power cut for those who haven't converted to American.

I directly quoted the LHR website, but I'm sure the rest of the UK will have no issues translating.

frostyj · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:56 pm

oh dear this isn't good.

KarelXWB · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:56 pm

Oeh, lots of traffic inbound, poor passengers!

petertenthije · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:57 pm

Does NATS-Swanwick not have their own emergency power generators, similar to hospitals?

trintocan · Fri Dec 12, 2014 3:57 pm

Yes, it's currently on the news. The airspace over London has cleared almost totally and LCY has closed. STN and LHR are taking a few arrivals but no departures. LGW is in a similar position.

Update: the airspace is open but with restricted traffic volume capability.

Trintocan.

frostyj · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:03 pm

What are they going to do with the midnight departure restrictions? Nothing has left since 11.

Cipango · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:05 pm

Quoting kdhurst380 (Reply 7):
Arrivals seems to be unaffected (for now)

I think it would be a lot worse if arrivals were also affected.

Yes departures will be late and will have knock on effects but if inbound flights all had to divert then this would lead to further delays and increased costs to airlines.

Speedbirdie · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:05 pm

Well an aircraft just took off...

scbriml · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:07 pm

I've just been offloaded from my BA flight back from Aberdeen. A flight to Manchester took off 10 minutes before we were due to depart and it's just landed back at Aberdeen!

I'm now back in the BA lounge enjoying some early Christmas spirit!

CPH-R · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:08 pm

BBC live coverage is available here: http://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-england-london-30321231

Edit: Some lovely late afternoon/early evening overview footage of LHR.

[Edited 2014-12-12 08:10:30]

slinky09 · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:10 pm

Quoting kdhurst380 (Reply 7):
According to the LHR website, it's due to a power outage at NATS Swanwick.

Well that must be at least a double or triple failure, I cannot imagine that they don't have redundant power, even batteries as well, so my guess is it must be a multiple failure.

AIRWALK · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:12 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 19):
I'm now back in the BA lounge enjoying some early Christmas spirit!

Im sitting on the cold floor at LTN, they haven't made any announcements here yet, every one is just walking around looking confused.

kdhurst380 · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:12 pm

The only flight I've seen depart was LHR-LBA which is domestic and around 35 minutes in length.

RickNRoll · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:13 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 21):
Well that must be at least a double or triple failure, I cannot imagine that they don't have redundant power, even batteries as well, so my guess is it must be a multiple failure.

Or in the interests of cutting costs, no one has tested the standby works.

par13del · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:15 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 16):
What are they going to do with the midnight departure restrictions? Nothing has left since 11.

I assume the curfew and other restriction will remain, NIMBY's will regard this equipment failure as a normal operational risk, unless accommodation for such IROPS is specifically mentioned in the rules / regs.

KarelXWB · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:17 pm

Latest update from Twitter:

Quote:
Departures have now commenced. One aircraft every 2.5 mins, backlog over 50 aircraft.

Thunderboltdrgn · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:17 pm

The live stream just said that LGW flights are departing again but that there are delays.

[Edited 2014-12-12 08:19:09]

scbriml · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:18 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 16):
Nothing has left since 11.

What? 11 what?

Speedbirdie · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:19 pm

Well a second aircraft just departed.
Things looking up?

travelavnut · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:20 pm

Have they tried turning it off and on again?

blueflyer · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:20 pm

Flybe took off from LCY to ABZ a few minutes ago, nothing else going up as of yet.

AirPacific747 · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:21 pm

I just got information from ATC that the problem has been resolved.

Thunderboltdrgn · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:21 pm

Quoting Speedbirdie (Reply 29):
Well a second aircraft just departed.
Things looking up?

yes the problem have been resolved but obviously there are still delays.

[Edited 2014-12-12 08:22:53]

frostyj · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:29 pm

Quoting scbriml (Reply 28):

Sorry according to the Heathrow website nothing has left since 11am, however two flights have now taken off. One for JFK and one for Shanghai Smile

[Edited 2014-12-12 08:29:58]

scbriml · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:33 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 34):

I'm afraid that's clearly wrong. Our flight from Aberdeen back to Heathrow at 2:55pm would have left LHR about 12:00pm I think.

rtfm · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:37 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 34):
Sorry according to the Heathrow website nothing has left since 11am, however two flights have now taken off. One for JFK and one for Shanghai

BA049 to SEA departed at 1627 so there are clearly some getting away.

NATS tweeted at 1629 that the system has been restored and they are in the process of returning to normal ops.

speedbird203 · Fri Dec 12, 2014 4:56 pm

I have a friend flying out of LTN, He's told me the airline have been great providing snacks, drinks and updates.
What a crazy evening it's going to be trying to play catchup.

vv701 · Fri Dec 12, 2014 5:41 pm

Not good for air travel in Europe.

Belgian ATC strike has closed Belgian air space:

Belgian Airspace Closed For 24 Hours From 14 Dec (by luchtzak Dec 12 2014 in Civil Aviation)

Italian General Strike impacting air travel to, from and within Italy between 10 am and 6 pm:

http://www.slowtrav.com/blog/italy_transport_strikes/

And now a power outrage at Swanswick!

blueflyer · Fri Dec 12, 2014 6:00 pm

Quoting VV701 (Reply 38):
Belgian ATC strike has closed Belgian air space

First and foremost, the strike begins on the 14th at 22:00, more than 48 hours from now.
Secondly, Belgian air space will not be closed as upper area is handled by Eurocontrol. Transit flights will be able to operate through Belgian air space as usual.
What will be closed are airport towers. Other than emergency traffic, no flight taking off or landing in Belgium for 24 hours.

litz · Fri Dec 12, 2014 7:58 pm

Quoting RickNRoll (Reply 10):
As for power failure, someone hasn't been managing their infrastructure properly.

Sometimes you can have the best infrastructure in the world and things still fail ...

At a previous job, I did an install at a large datacenter in the midwest US ... the techie there was relating a story about how they built their facility with the BEST design money could buy at the time ...

Standby power for the whole building (the biggest room of batteries you've ever seen), double redundant generators (either can carry whole load, so you can do maintenance on one, while running on the other), and multiple circuits for power feeds from the utility.

Then lightning struck (and destroyed) the transfer assembly that controlled the switchovers between all of the above and blacked out the building.

readytotaxi · Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:19 pm

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 30):

wonderful, bet they did not try it.

par13del · Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:48 pm

Quoting travelavnut (Reply 30):
Have they tried turning it off and on again?

Come on, with Microsoft the BSOD uses the 3 finger salute, no power interruption required

Quoting litz (Reply 40):
Then lightning struck (and destroyed) the transfer assembly that controlled the switchovers between all of the above and blacked out the building.

Bet they now have an offline transfer assembly waiting for the lightning, now if only they can find the keys to turn them on...

In cases like these an alternate for load sharing with the ability to pick up the slack during failure is probably a much better use of funds versus attempting to fail proof the facility.

eastern747 · Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:22 pm

Where in the "hell" are the back up systems?!!!! We had the same thing here in the Chicago not that long ago. It was due to some guy setting some fires.Why does this this stuff happen? Aircraft have multiple backup systems. Multiple! These ground systems need to be upgraded, and it's not like we as passengers don't pay for it. It's a charge on every ticket. We, as passengers have got to step up and do something because this isn't right. If there is a natural emergency or a man made one, we have to have back up. The money we pay on tickets need to go for this and nothing else, as those powers to be use it.

reality · Fri Dec 12, 2014 9:36 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 43):
Where in the "hell" are the back up systems?!!!!

Quoting litz (Reply 40):
Sometimes you can have the best infrastructure in the world and things still fail ...

Quoting litz (Reply 40):
Then lightning struck (and destroyed) the transfer assembly that controlled the switchovers between all of the above and blacked out the building.

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 43):
Why does this this stuff happen?

Because the world is not perfect; nor am I, or, you. Those who do not expect perfection are the happiest. Those who want perfection suffer.

[Edited 2014-12-12 13:47:03]

NickLAX · Fri Dec 12, 2014 11:04 pm

Wow. I left LHR at 12:52pm wheels up on AA135. We must have just departed before issues started. No routing changes as we left LHR. We were subject to ATC departure delays due to winds/weather but this was a short delay once we pushed back.

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