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steex
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:14 pm

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 48):
I just noticed that RDU will only have 2 destinations on Delta west of the Mississippi after everything is said and done..LAX and MSP.. that's sad..

That's not a change - MEM isn't west of the Mississippi. I'm not sure why this is really sad, the Mississippi is a fairly arbitrary line and LAX/MSP makes the same number of flights west of the Misssissippi as UA (IAH/SFO) or AA/US (DFW/LAX).
 
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ERJ170
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:24 pm

Quoting steex (Reply 50):
That's not a change - MEM isn't west of the Mississippi. I'm not sure why this is really sad, the Mississippi is a fairly arbitrary line and LAX/MSP makes the same number of flights west of the Misssissippi as UA (IAH/SFO) or AA/US (DFW/LAX).


Soooo.. what I was saying is that RDU now only has 2 destinations west of the Mississippi. I wasn't saying MEM was west of the Mississippi, I was stating MEM was yet another lost for the airport.. including the destinations we lost in the west of SLC and LAS.. but this is about MEM.. so I digress..

As for picking up the traffic, it should be interesting to see what happens. I doubt MEM will ever be what it was when NW was hubbed there.. but it could do a good job of getting decent flights to some destinations by back fill. Just don't expect immediate backfill and backfill of every destinations cause it won't really happen. A lot of the ex-girlfriend hubs have come back into great positions but it has taken years.. YEARS to get back to a decent service level. And it has taken a lot of pleading, pitches, and parties to get that to happen.

I think now would be a great time for MEM to look at their airport and see what they need, what they would like, and what they can do without. And then, if the finances allow, consider what they want their airport to be in the next 25 years and start making that vision a reality. Build for now + 35%.. and build intermodel..

Things change so fast in the world that they have to build for flexibility also.. never know what's going to come up or whats the next thing so expansion without build-out would be great.

But just my thoughts..
Aiming High and going far..
 
WA707atMSP
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:06 pm

Quoting SunsetLimited (Reply 49):
Another airline on MEM-LAX? Not a chance.

I'm not so sure. I still think this would be a natural CRJ 700 / 900 route for AA.
 
SunsetLimited
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Mon Dec 15, 2014 8:20 pm

Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 52):
I'm not so sure. I still think this would be a natural CRJ 700 / 900 route for AA.

That's a pretty long segment for that aircraft. It would probably take a payload hit. Overall I just don't think it's a route screaming for additional nonstop service.
Spread hope like fire.
 
SouthernDC9
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Mon Dec 15, 2014 9:06 pm

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 28):
Well if we're going to be comparing small, minor cities to eachother (Fayetteville and the Nashville suburb of Franklin), Franklin is constantly named the #1 small town in the South, beating out Savannah and many other "southern charms". Fayetteville's got.... Walmart for a neighbor (I guess the've got that going for 'em!)

Northwest Arkansas as a whole is more Midwestern than southern, but Fayetteville has a nice college-town vibe, lots of natural beauty and, yes, Bentonville up the road, with one of the best art museums in America (Crystal Bridges).

Memphis truly has one of the best zoos in the country. It is really outstanding.

I'm not 100% certain but I don't believe being a "nice city" is a zero-sum game, there can be many all across the nation with individual charms and attractions.

Regardless of Memphis's relative virtues or downsides, I grew up near there and MEM will always be my airport.

I'm curious to see what WN does with MEM in the coming months - will they be adding?
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Mon Dec 15, 2014 11:19 pm

I think a WN flight to PHX that could be timed for California connections would be a good play. But I'm just an armchair CEO.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:14 am

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 54):


Northwest Arkansas as a whole is more Midwestern than southern, but Fayetteville has a nice college-town vibe, lots of natural beauty and, yes, Bentonville up the road, with one of the best art museums in America (Crystal Bridges).

Dunno about that, Missouri as a whole is more southern than midwestern outside of STL and MCI. Southern Illinois could very well be in TN or KY for the lifestyle and way of life. And AK is certainly the SOUTH...even throwing in a few MBA's at Wal-Mart and Tyson. Been there...no midwestern vibe about it.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
SouthernDC9
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:49 am

OzarkD9S, you seem to equate "Southern" with backwards, backwoods or low-class, which isn't quite right. Many Southerners are all those things, but there are plenty of Southerners with MBAs and there have been countless Southerners throughout history who are so over-educated beyond even the scope of a mere MBA that all they're qualified to do is write novels. AR (not AK), as fond as I am of the state, is generally backwards, backwoods, etc but that doesn't make it Southern. NW AR specifically, is to me just rather common, there's no there there, really, no character - I associate that with the Midwest (which is probably my bias showing). I love AR but not the way I love my (decidedly Southern, for better or worse) home state of Mississippi. (Ie Saturday in the fall in Oxford and even in Starkville is SOUTHERN - Saturday in the fall in Fayetteville is... Arkansas. There's an enormous difference.)

So how soon will we see other airlines add flights at MEM, if there are to be additions? Had WN already announced any increases in service?

I believe in the last round of small-community federal grants (I forget the name of the program) there was a proposal for G4 service from Millington outside of MEM, but it was not selected.

[Edited 2014-12-15 19:52:35]
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:53 am

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 57):


OzarkD9S, you seem to equate "Southern" with backwards

I do not, "Southern" is a state of mind, and I stand by my statement.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
ipodguy7
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:13 am

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 56):
And AK is certainly the SOUTH...even throwing in a few MBA's at Wal-Mart and Tyson

What do MBA's and being in the South have to do with eachother? Certaintly you are aware that the south has some of the best business schools in the nation (Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory, Rice, SMU, etc), and way more than its fair share of F500 HQ's?

Further, AK is Alaska, AR is Arkansas

[Edited 2014-12-15 22:17:48]
AA/DL/NW/CO/UA/US/B6/AS/AC/FI/NY/EI/BD/BA/AF/AZ/DY/SK/QF/JQ/JL
 
bjorn14
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:59 am

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 57):
there have been countless Southerners throughout history who are so over-educated beyond even the scope of a mere MBA

and a lot of them never even went to school.  
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
dispatchguy
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:16 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 35):
FX has agreements with pax airlines for its employees.

No way they can rely on the few freighter seats, that move around sporadically at odd times of the day, to handle their travel needs.

Only specific employees may travel on a FX JS - no dependents, no boyfriends or girlfriends, no kids, not the courier who drops stuff off.
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
SouthernDC9
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:07 pm

So as a general follow-up to the discussion here, I would recommend everyone read "Southern Ladies and Gentlemen" by Florence King - and for advanced studies, her spectacular memoir, "Confessions of a Failed Southern Lady."

So for realsies, what do we think is next for MEM? More WN? More AA? More nothing? G4? (I don't see UA really being part of the equation all that much - or B6, or NK for that matter, in terms of completely new service.) I can't even keep track of what F9 is up to these days.

Quoting jetjeanes (Reply 27):
There are few here calling for the airport to put one ahead of Dl and evict them.. Kick them to the curb.. their doing nothing but screwing up fares and routes for lcc,s ..problem is so many still have tons of ff miles left over drom when they were here ..

This would be just unbelievably misguided, petty and shortsighted, so yeah there will probably be a big push for it...

[Edited 2014-12-16 06:08:33]
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
 
Cubsrule
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:20 pm

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 57):
I believe in the last round of small-community federal grants (I forget the name of the program) there was a proposal for G4 service from Millington outside of MEM, but it was not selected.

That's correct. I didn't really understand it. Memphis is spread out, but much of the money is in places closer to MEM than to Millington.

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 62):
So for realsies, what do we think is next for MEM? More WN? More AA?

I could certainly see a 15-20 flight WN operation (similar to OKC). And AA has the best hub structure for MEM; DL is good to the north and east but not so good going west, and UA is good to the north and west but not so good going east.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:23 pm

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 59):


Further, AK is Alaska, AR is Arkansas

My bad on that.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:26 pm

Quoting ipodguy7 (Reply 59):


What do MBA's and being in the South have to do with eachother? Certaintly you are aware that the south has some of the best business schools in the nation (Duke, Vanderbilt, Emory, Rice, SMU, etc), and way more than its fair share of F500 HQ's?

See my above post on "Southern" being a state of mind. Much as a Southern Democrat is likely to be more conservative than his or her northern counterpart. I've lived in the Midwest and the South. Wasn't claiming one is "better" than the other, but they are quite different in many ways, and similar in others.
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
SouthernDC9
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 2:49 pm

Hey, Memphis loses some, Memphis wins some...

Memphis to get an IKEA
What does AA/US merger mean for CLT/JFK/PHX/North America/Southern Hemisphere/God's Plan for the Universe
 
ScottB
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:33 pm

Quoting MSJYOP28Apilot (Thread starter):
With these cuts, Delta will need even fewer gates. Personally I think the MEM airport authority should have temporarily consolidated on A and C while building a smaller new concourse where B is today

Why bother with rebuilding anything? DL needs at most 7 or 8 gates for what they'll continue to operate after cutting ORD/RDU/IND. WN needs 1 or 2 gates. Pretty much everyone could fit in the existing C gates, or AA/UA/WN could be moved into the B concourse with about 20 gates to spare. The latter is likely the better solution since B has a larger security checkpoint and food court, along with the international gates.

Quoting DLX737200 (Reply 1):
What gates are Delta using now in B?

The even-numbered B gates from B6 to B22.

Quoting CIDFlyer (Reply 30):
I always wondered why Northwest stayed there considering the shoddy O&D numbers. I get that it was their link to the South and FedEx kept the operating costs low, but I always wondered why Northwest didn't move to BNA after AA closed up due to it's better O&D, business and leisure travel market and more affluent and larger population.

Arguably because WN was in BNA but not MEM. They would have been stuck competing with WN in many of the dense O&D markets which wasn't the case at MEM. And in the mid-1990's, when AA dropped the BNA hub, the Memphis and Nashville metropolitan areas were still about the same size. Memphis historically was the larger conurbation. It has also been said that low fares on WN helped to spur economic development in Nashville.

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 15):
I hope oil never crosses 80 again and upstarts see Memphis as a home base the same way it's seen as ideal for the distribution of goods. Ask Disney, Nike, Williams Sonoma and now Target.

MEM is an important distribution center thanks to the FedEx hub and good highway/rail/waterway access. But distribution centers don't necessarily bring high-wage jobs; the Inland Empire of California is also an important distribution center and wages there are notoriously low given California costs of living.

Quoting ERJ170 (Reply 51):
And then, if the finances allow, consider what they want their airport to be in the next 25 years and start making that vision a reality. Build for now + 35%.. and build intermodel.

Intermodal? Why on earth? I can't think of any scenario under which intercity rail becomes a relevant option to/from Memphis; the distances and traffic numbers just don't work out. I don't see bus connections as being terribly relevant and a bus terminal is likely better located downtown.

Quoting Surfandsnow (Reply 41):
I'm also surprised to see MEM-LAX continue at a daily year round frequency.

MEM-LAX gives access to most of the key markets on the West Coast with a connection and has far better O&D than MEM-SLC.
 
wkid87
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:34 pm

I think we can see more WN and AA. It will probably be once the consolidation over to B is completed. Unlike what people think in this thread, I believed a couple of routes out West and Northeast will work in MEM. I can also see additional carriers coming in as well.

I think what hurting MEM is fares due to lack of competition. When I lived in MEM, a lot of companies was sending their emploees to LIT or BNA for to catch a flight. I believed the new airport board realize that and will try several different incentives packages to lure airlines in.
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:56 pm

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 62):
So for realsies, what do we think is next for MEM? More WN? More AA? More nothing? G4?

Absolutely G4. That's what I would be going after if I were the MEM airport authority. In fact, I would venture to say that G4 could offer MEM-LAS/AZA/LAX to start. Allegiant is missing in many southern cities and could easily ramp up competition if it wanted to.
 
GSP psgr
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:02 pm

Perhaps in the medium term, we'll see US/AA pickup MEM-PHX with a CR9 or 319 like they did on PHX-CLE when United left, though on the other hand, it's probably more profitable just to drive more flow over DFW instead.
 
IAHWorldflyer
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:53 pm

Don't forget that the Memphis Airport Board, led by Larry Cox, actively worked for the interests of NW to the detriment of competition in the late '90's and early 2000''s. I remember at one point WN was interested in helping build a terminal in West Memphis, AR so they could fly to DAL, along with a few other cities, and Cox helped talk to Congressional delegations to make sure no funding for such a thing would occur. The Board also allowed NW to lease up pretty much all the empty gates so as to keep new entrants out. Especially WN. People in MEM at the time paid some of the highest airfares on a per mile basis in the nation. Now that Cox is gone from the airport, you've seen new entrants like Frontier and Southwest come in and be welcomed. You reap what you sow sometimes.

It has been discussed on these forums earlier that the master plan for MEM is to demolish both the A and C terminals and move everone over to a refurbished B. That would leave the airport with something like 25 gates, which should be enough, given the low level of DL activity. The other majors, AA, UA, and WN can get by with 2-3 gates each.
 
WaywardMemphian
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:47 pm

Quoting iahworldflyer (Reply 71):
It has been discussed on these forums earlier that the master plan for MEM is to demolish both the A and C terminals and move everone over to a refurbished B. That would leave the airport with something like 25 gates, which should be enough, given the low level of DL activity. The other majors, AA, UA, and WN can get by with 2-3 gates each.

Not all of A and C just portions of them, the rest of A and C will be mothballed.

You never know what the future holds, just today I was astonished that Memphis was selected for an IKEA before Nashville. Was also astonished to learn that most of Bruno Mar's new album was recorded in Memphis at Royal. I was told right here in this thread all the studios had shut down.
 
WaywardMemphian
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:21 pm

Quoting SouthernDC9 (Reply 54):
Northwest Arkansas as a whole is more Midwestern than southern, but Fayetteville has a nice college-town vibe, lots of natural beauty and, yes, Bentonville up the road, with one of the best art museums in America (Crystal Bridges).

Memphis truly has one of the best zoos in the country. It is really outstanding.

Fayetteville is not Midwestern. I'm from the Delta and the local folks relate more to the south than folk from Iowa. Many longtime Ozark families can trace back to middle and eastern Tenn and that is who they are most like today. You have to think of the area as a whole as there's very little left separating the cities. The MSA is now over 500,000, add the river valley (Ft. Smith) that is now less than an hour drive of 300,000 to it and there's 3/4 of a million along the I-49 corridor from Ft. Smith to Bella Vista in a state of less than 3 million. It's no coincidence that state wide offices are now dominated by folks basically from this area.
This area is one of the fastest growing economic regions in the country with two Fortune 500s, not just a college town. Besides Walmart, there's the trucking giant that is JB Hunt and food giant Tyson that just swallowed up Hillshire Brands and a healthy start up culture funded by folks from these giants. I could quote business mag article after another signing our praises but I ain't.

In something completely unrelated to MEM other than Delta's XNA/MEM flight was one of Delta's first cuts. XNA is on pace to cross 600,000 enplanements this year. The most ever and the most since 07.

Memphis has an outstanding zoo. A lively music scene,(google Budweiser Made in Memphis) with a few studios still doing work that's internationally recognized. has many things starting to go for it's downtown area. God's work being done at St. Jude and a major medical center. Remember Steve Jobs came to Memphis for help with what finally overcame him.

And Starkville, no words.
 
SunsetLimited
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RE: More DL Cuts In MEM

Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:38 pm

Sad to read all the MEM vs BNA bickering because in my very humble opinion, both areas are unique and have a lot to offer in their own way. I've spent quite a few nights in MEM enjoying BBQ and catching ball games, and I've always had a great time in downtown Nashville enjoying the bar and music scene. Different strokes for different folks.
Spread hope like fire.

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