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mozart
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Why Does Belfast has Two Separate Airports?

Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:01 pm

Why don't they just bring all the traffic to the Belfast city airport which seems to be much more convenient to use. Why keep some traffic at BFS?
 
gordonsmall
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Why Does Belfast has Two Separate Airports?

Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:08 pm

BHD is only more convenient if your final destination is the city of Belfast, if you are travelling elsewhere in Ireland (North or North-of-South) then it becomes a pain in the bollocks.
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awthompson
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Why Does Belfast has Two Separate Airports?

Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:16 pm

BHD does not have a long enough runway to operate the nightly A306 freight flights, almost daily fully loaded A321 flights to the Canary Islands, or UAL B752s to EWR to name but a few. Also are you aware that BFS will have VS B744 flights to Florida in 2015? There is no chance of such flights moving to BHD even if the runway was lengthened significantly.

Yes, you do ask a valid question in that a city the size of Belfast should have two working civilian airports. Recent history has led to this situation and it is tolerated on the grounds of competition.
 
frostyj
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Why Does Belfast has Two Separate Airports?

Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:19 pm

I am not really sure why. I think Northern Ireland is too small to have two airports, it would be better if the two would amalgamate.

Quoting awthompson (Reply 2):

To be honest, I really feel like we should've had a Virgin Atlantic flight long ago, the Northern Ireland market to Florida is massively underestimated. Maybe not a 747 though, think that is too large perhaps a 767 for 3 months of the year. I don't believe 4 weeks of flying twice a week is enough.

[Edited 2014-12-13 14:21:33]
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frostyj
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Why Does Belfast has Two Separate Airports?

Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:19 pm

Quoting gordonsmall (Reply 1):

I have only used that airport once, I don't intend on using it again.
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Boeing74741R
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Why Does Belfast has Two Separate Airports?

Sat Dec 13, 2014 10:36 pm

Quoting awthompson (Reply 2):

Am I right in thinking there's annual restrictions on movements in/out of BHD which will always deter growth?
 
skipness1E
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Why Does Belfast has Two Separate Airports?

Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:28 pm

Belfast Airport was at Aldergrove, now known as Belfast International. BHD was the factory site of Shorts which was opened to commercial traffic after a campaign by Loganair and others. As Belfast Harbour it was more convenient for the city and over the years grew at the expense of BFS. Classic market fragmentation, meaning two local airports compete for limited spoils.

Remember they're both private companies, it's not the business of the state to close one at the expense of the other without getting the taxpayer chequebook out. Again!!!
 
mozart
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Why Does Belfast has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:05 am

Thanks for all the information, very interesting background insights.
 
BestWestern
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Why Does Belfast has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 8:00 am

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 3):
I think Northern Ireland is too small to have two airports

Dont forget about LDY - the third northern Irish airport. Northern Ireland needs one, efficient, viable airport.
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thekorean
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Why Does Belfast has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:07 am

How about demolishing BHD? Or is there a political reason for not doing so?

Manchester has one airport, Liverpool has only one, and no problem there not having competition.
 
skipness1E
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Why Does Belfast has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:57 am

What gives you the right to demolish a succesful business please? The more populat of the two I might add!
 
vfw614
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Why Does Belfast has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:13 pm

Belfast Harbour was opened by Shorts for commercial in the 1980s when a lot of UK regional airlines were in the market for the Shorts 330 and Shorts 360 regional aircraft.

As for "demolishing" it, scheduled airlines with the exception of LCCs (easyjet, Jet2 and Wizzair), charter airlines with mostly seasonal services and United (because of runway length) have moved from BFS to BHD (think BA/BD, EI). So there is clear market segmentation: Charter, freight and low cost carriers at BFS, legacy and regional carriers at BHD.
 
[email protected]
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Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:55 pm

Quoting BestWestern (Reply 8):

And Enniskillen. Granted, no commercial services for years, but I remember when it had summer flights to JER.  
Quoting vfw614 (Reply 11):
low cost carriers at BFS

Amusingly, I recall when FR had a base at BHD.

[Edited 2014-12-14 05:34:10]
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downtown273
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:29 pm

Yes, merging both airport somewhere in the middle would be good *if* the transport network was there (high-speed train to Belfast City, Derry/Londonderry and even Dublin).

But the infrastructure is not there - and in the meantime, Belfast City (BHD) will continue to serve local Belfast traffic + business traffic, and Belfast International (BFS) will continue to serve low-cost and the rest of Northern Ireland (+ the UA flight to EWR).
 
frostyj
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:39 pm

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 13):

Well the Northern Ireland government does not know how to control a country effectively. We really need a motorway from Derry to Belfast and Coleraine to Belfast.. it really is high time that this happens.

For NI to get a new road it usually takes 20 years for them to do it by which time it is already needing an upgrade. The government only really spends money on upgrades in Belfast, like recently they built a dual carriageway from Belfast to Larne which imo is not as needed as other roads seriously. I think the government has given up on the rest of Northern Ireland and wants to concentrate their efforts on developing Belfast.

Anyway, they really need to upgrade the airport, roads and also improve the speed of the train service. Of course this will NEVER happen so I am leaving for uni in England. Really getting fed up of this country, we are a third world country in a first world country.
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frostyj
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 1:54 pm

Well I don't use that airport, its almost 2 hours away and it is very small with mostly small planes flying out of it (and expensive at that) so I stick to Belfast International.
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Jambost
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:04 pm

Would be quirky and just natural to predict what Northern Ireland's airport/s would be like today if one of the three elements collapsed.
However in reality 3 northern airports are still commercially active through some of the most tough economic conditions, competing alongside DUB currently booming into a new European hub.

Fair play to BFS , BHD & LDY.

My choice to save one of the three above would have to be LDY.

Lets not forget Enniskillen or Ards aerodromes who actively handle general aviation.
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Quantos
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:22 pm

Sounds a bit like YTZ vs. YYZ. For many, it's a huge benefit to arrive directly in the center of a city and skip the commute. I don't know the specifics of BHD vs. BFS, but perhaps it's a similar coexistence?
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Jambost
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:25 pm

Quoting Quantos (Reply 25):

I would say it is quite similar, BHD has restrictions to operate and expand implicated by the local residence. A runway expansion at BHD was proposed but if I recall correctly has now been scrapped.
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vfw614
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:02 pm

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 12):
FS

Amusingly, I recall when FR had a base at BHD

So do I. You quite correctly wrote "had".
 
frostyj
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:38 pm

Well there are almost 1 million people in Northern Ireland situated far from this airport. You must remember this airport is located in the South-East of the country.

[Edited 2014-12-14 07:38:52]
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PlymSpotter
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 4:06 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 19):

Well I don't use that airport, its almost 2 hours away and it is very small with mostly small planes flying out of it (and expensive at that) so I stick to Belfast International.

You must be right on the border then - it is going some to find places in Northern Ireland which are more than 1.5 hours drive away from Belfast, especially BHD as the Motorway runs practically to the terminal door.


Something you need to consider is that airlines react to market demand. Simply put, if BFS were more convenient for the majority of the Northern Irish market, you would see fewer flights at BHD.

What you instead see is a broadly leisure/business split between BFS/BHD, because that is what the market dictates.

In isolation, comparing population size is a highly inaccurate method of assessing demand. Consider propensity to fly instead - which is going to be much higher for Belfast itself as the center of the Northern Irish economy. The overall demand from the Belfast area most likely exceeds that of the entire remaining country.


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frostyj
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:45 pm

Quoting PlymSpotter (Reply 35):

You clearly do NOT live in Northern Ireland. Fermanagh is no less than 90 minutes from BHD, I live in County Londonderry and we are all over 90 minutes from BHD, North Antrim is 70 minutes and so is parts of Armagh.

So actually you will find that most places in Northern Ireland are more than an hour away from the airport. Now I know thats not much but when we have such a small country it is pretty clear the airport location is not ideal.
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N1120A
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:58 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 41):
So actually you will find that most places in Northern Ireland are more than an hour away from the airport. Now I know thats not much but when we have such a small country it is pretty clear the airport location is not ideal.

Where does the yield go to and from? I'm betting that will answer your conundrum about location.
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Wingtip1005
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:26 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 39):

BHD and BFS have two completely different markets, I don't see the problem with having the two airports. As it is the capital of NI, with the main body of the population, where else are you going to have the airport? LDY has the share with its population and the surrounding area.

Also for the record, BFS is a travesty. I much prefer using BHD when I can.
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frostyj
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:33 pm

Yes it needs a major revamp but it has been upgraded a bit inside. The new owners seem more excited to launch new routes.
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joeytaffy93
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:38 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 41):
Now I know thats not much but when we have such a small country it is pretty clear the airport location is not ideal.

Without trying to start a keyboard war, it may not seem ideal to you but for all the people who to travel via the airport it is ideal. What is useful to one may not be useful to the other, BHD serves as a gateway into the city centre, I know when I travel to Belfast it will be to BHD, if I was traveling elsewhere I'd consider BFS.

Personal preference can't decide the outcome of one airport, more importantly just because you live in said country doesn't mean you're instantly right over any body else on here - this is an open forum for enthusiasts, remember that please folks.
 
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OA260
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:48 pm

Living along the border with both BFS/BHD/DUB options for me I prefer DUB then BHD and last of all BFS. Its an out dated airport and depressing. BHD is served by a close rail link and buses and is far handier to the City and for connections by rail to much of the North and South. After 20 years of using all 3 airports BFS seems to have been the looser. I know its hard for some of the newbies to fathom but BHD is there for a reason. BFS used to boast BA and BD then EI and they lost these carriers for a reason. When BA took over BD they didnt decide to go back to BFS either.

BFS will remain for the next decade at least a LCC and Charter dominated airport with sesonal services such as the VS one and maybe will manage to retain the current TATL service.


The only thing holding BHD back from further success is runway length/local residents which is something BFS must be thanking their lucky stars about!
 
flyingcello
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:47 pm

Frostyj, where on earth do I start!

First of all...check a map. BHD is hardly in the SOUTH-east. That would be Newry! East we'll accept.

Secondly, BHD is probably slighter better situated for the majority of the NI public. If you consider it is accessible from Bangor / Newtownards, Lisburn, Newtownabbey / Carrick / Larne, and even the Ballymena and Craigavon areas (all by motorway or dual-carriageway), as well as Belfast, that covers an awful large slice of the NI population.

Thirdly, the biggest road scheme completed recently has been the A4 to the west. The A5 is on the cards now also...not to mention the dualling of the A26 at Glarryford. Hardly Belfast-centric. And as for the A8, it is part of two Euro-routes (E1 and E18) and as such, was a priority for upgrade.

BHD and BFS are both commercial entities...they have a right to trade, and government would find it nigh on impossible to change that. Personally, I find both useful, and have no real preference. If I need to go to London, I will choose a route that gets me to the right train station in London...for Victoria area, use Gatwick etc. And I live in Ballymena!

I think your posts show a naivety on NI travel. A single consolidated airport is arguably the right aspiration, as the total passenger numbers would attract more airlines, but there is no mechanism to make that happen.We are where we are, and should take advantage of the benefits we get from two airports...namely pressure on fares through competition. I'm delighted VS are coming to BFS next year...maybe that's only a start. The mooted arrival of Turkish is also a big plus. But BHD is undeniably valuable too...and possibly moreso for those coming into Belfast on business. A day return for a business meeting in Belfast is undoubtedly easier if arriving into BHD.
 
opethfan
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:22 pm

If only we had a economic and political environment that allowed business and customers to decide how and where to allocate their resources to best suit the needs of those buying and selling. One that reacts in real time to supply and demand, so petty bickering didn't need to be had over what service would benefit most.

Some sort of free market....
 
frostyj
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:32 pm

Quoting flyingcello (Reply 48):

Yeah its a British road not a European road, there is no such thing as a European road network when we are disconnected by water. Anyway you are taking the high road and really going into sketchy territory here by only discussing areas in Northern Ireland located in proximity to Belfast. I hope you don't think it is acceptable to only build infrastructure in Belfast.

I do indeed live near the train line but from my house to the airport the train will take about 2 hours (bearing in mind I will have to change trains) so really that is not feasible and thus I have to drive which again takes 90 minutes so for anyone near Ballymoney or Coleraine, Limavady this is not good. Anywhere past there in the west of Northern Ireland will of course use Belfast Intentional airport except for Fermangh and Armagh which may as well just use Dublin airport.

They have yet to build a motorway from Belfast to Derry or Coleraine, as you know the motorway stops at Randlestown on the way to Derry and outside Ballymena on the way to Coleraine so there is still major works to be done, of course this isn't going to happen anytime soon with the current tax issues etc taking forever to be solved, they will never authorise two motorways.

This is my country, I don't care about people visiting here, the number one customer to the airports are people from Northern Ireland so we will dictate where our airports are. Over 1 million people live in the north and west of Northern Ireland that you have forgotten about and I think you are being a tad pessimistic in including people from Newry etc in your figures when they will almost certainly be using DUB. Anyway I hope BFS can grow and provide us with a year round service to EWR and maybe MCO, we need more international routes. Although they would really need to work on reducing prices to America, they are ridiculous.

[Edited 2014-12-14 13:38:24]
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opticalilyushin
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:38 pm

Politics aside, the 2 airports in Belfast question has been a long standing debate. As someone who has worked in both Belfast airports from an operations angle, I wanted to give my 2 cents.

First of all, both Belfast airports are private companies, and in some markets they both compete directly with each other. Now from a consumer point of view this is good. The customer can make choices that suit them, like flight times, departure location, and the competition involving low fares and who can attract the most passengers. All this is good for the economy too.

Belfast Aldergrove is a great airport that has hit hard times over the last decade. For example pre-recession, in the summer time there were upto 6 flights to Canada a week, multiple charters to the Caribbean, Mexico, Florida etc. Also a healthy European leisure market with XL, Spanair, Air Dubrovnik, to name a few. Sadly these services were lost, APD went up, and as a result less people decided to travel, those who did sometimes driving down to Dublin instead. What also did not help is that the former owners of BFS had a knack for not trying to turn the situation around, look at Cardiff for example.. Now there are new owners who have gone out there, rolled their sleeves up, and are bringing in new (and old) airlines again.

Belfast City airport is popular for people visiting the Belfast area itself, aswell as those in North Down. In the domestic and European markets, this is the airport that brings the lucrative business types to Northern Ireland, BA, for example have many corperate deals and agreements in place, as do Aer Lingus, plus a healthy steady cargo demand. It should also be noted that BHD does get a lot of feedback from people who do travel from the other side of NI, or from across the border, due to it's location beside the city, convenient size, transport links and it's wide variety of regional destinations on offer.

I noted that Frostyj mentioned that BHD is very small, with small planes..it is worth noting that LDY/Eglinton airport is only a few hundred or so feet longer in runway length, and with a much smaller terminal building. LDY has unfortunately had the hardest of times over the years, going from a time when for example there was an extensive Loganair presence, to just Ryanair and the occasional charter. I understand it is the only airport that is council subsidised too. For anyone who lives in the North West I have no doubt it is a great asset to have on the doorstep, and I hope it can attract more business in the future.

At the end of the day airlines will go to wherever the best markets are, which in NI tends to radiate around the Belfast area. Both airports do cater for slightly different markets, and the best thing to do is let them continue to expand in their own way.

If it ever comes down to closing one of the airports it would most likely be BHD, but not without possible loss of airline services, loss of revenue to the local economy, and many job losses. For example, it was always rumoured Aer Lingus jumped ship at BFS for a better deal down the road. If BHD closed, BFS has the monopoly, can charge whatever it wants as a result, and airlines will be less keen to fly here.

For the time being, Northern Ireland will always struggle to attract some of the big names to it's airports. It is one of the most sparsely populated regions in the UK, with APD to deal with, and with easy road access to an airport down South with more choices and typically cheaper fares. If we can attract new industries in, they will be the likes of Turkish, KLM, and other European airlines with narrowbodies and regional wings, maybe even Westjet!. I would not hold out for an Emirates A380 anytime soon!
 
frostyj
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:40 pm

Yeah Belfast did have flights to Las Vegas etc but they never ever attempted to introduce a scheduled proper service that wasn't overpriced. I really wish they'd make it a goal to introduce a permanent flight to Florida and stop bringing in charters that cost a fortune and dictate the dates at which you come home. People may say where do we get the demand for a flight to Florida, well um no one actually tried it did they? I know Virgin has launched but its only once a week..

A lot of people seem to not know about the United Flight either, I know a girl who now lives in America that comes in to Dublin everytime and she didn't even realise there was a flight to New York. Hopefully they launch the Westjet service, it would be nice to get to North America in four hours.



[Edited 2014-12-14 13:40:44]

[Edited 2014-12-14 13:43:13]

[Edited 2014-12-14 13:44:07]

[Edited 2014-12-14 13:49:51]

[Edited 2014-12-14 13:53:07]
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Wingtip1005
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:43 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 50):
I have to drive which again takes 90 minutes so for anyone near Ballymoney or Coleraine, Limavady this is not good

These are just over an hours drive, stop exaggerating.

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 50):
This is my country, I don't care about people visiting here, the number one customer to the airports are people from Northern Ireland so we will dictate where our airports are.

Close minded comment aside, they have gone with where the bulk of the population is so I believe we have dictated where our airports should be.
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frostyj
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:45 pm

Quoting Wingtip1005 (Reply 54):

I'm not exaggerating, you have to drive into Belfast itself and through all the traffic. It does take ages to get there.
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Wingtip1005
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:52 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 55):

Or you could take the dual carriageway straight to the airport?
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downtown273
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 9:58 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 50):
This is my country, I don't care about people visiting here, the number one customer to the airports are people from Northern Ireland so we will dictate where our airports are.

I've actually read this 3-4 times, still don't know if you're serious or you're just kidding.

Airport viability and feasibility are not based on "local pride" - but on economic plans. You think airports "don't care about customers visiting"? So when you fly to London from your dear BFS, do you expect Londoners to decide where you should fly to? Or do you not prefer to have the choice to fly to LHR/LGW/LCY/STN/LTN from the Belfast area, and fly to wherever is most convenient *to you*? Sure let's close all airports but BFS, and all airports but LHR, and only offer BFS-LHR. And only LHR-JFK. Is that the best?

If an airport is not convenient *to you* it doesn't mean that it's not convenient to a large part of the population living somewhere else in the country. What next? "I don't wanna go to CDG so they should axe BFS-CDG and re-deploy the aircraft in BFS-FCO, because that's where *I* want to go".......

Let's be grown-ups if we are going to have a serious debate in a forum like this.

[Edited 2014-12-14 14:03:12]

[Edited 2014-12-14 14:04:13]
 
frostyj
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:02 pm

You don't realise the issues that have happened in this country with money and Belfast.
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downtown273
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RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:12 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 58):
You don't realise the issues that have happened in this country with money and Belfast.

Having lived here for a significant amount of years and my political background, I think I am perfectly aware of "the issues that have happened in this country". Yet that still doesn't entitle me to say "That airport is so inconvenient for me, therefore it is so inconvenient for the entire population, they should close it now" or "It's my country, we should build airports for our convenience, we do not care about people visiting". (Just quoting you)

Maybe you should check the top 50 firms in Northern Ireland (companies that employ people in Northern Ireland), and see how most of them are actually non-NI companies. Those people "that are not from here so we don't care" (quoting you, again) come over to Northern Ireland to do business, set up offices, employ people, and help develop Northern Ireland even further. So yes, I think we should care about what people out there outside this island think and prepare our infrastructure to suit our needs, but also to help them grow, which will enable us to grow as a country.

[Edited 2014-12-14 14:14:15]
 
flyingcello
Posts: 208
Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 8:31 pm

RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:16 pm

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 57):
Let's be grown-ups if we are going to have a serious debate in a forum like this.

Downtown,

Think you've hit the nail on the head here...Frosty seems to be showing a touch of innocence in his views...

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 50):
Yeah its a British road not a European road, there is no such thing as a European road network when we are disconnected by water.

Frosty, I suggest you ask the United Nations Economic Commission for Europe (UNECE) about that one...

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 50):
I hope you don't think it is acceptable to only build infrastructure in Belfast.

Did you actually read my comments? I think I demonstrated that there is significant (and justifiable) development outside Belfast.

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 50):
This is my country, I don't care about people visiting here, the number one customer to the airports are people from Northern Ireland so we will dictate where our airports are.

Oh grow up. If you really believe that, then you really have no clue as to business works.

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 50):
Over 1 million people live in the north and west of Northern Ireland that you have forgotten about and I think you are being a tad pessimistic in including people from Newry etc in your figures when they will almost certainly be using DUB.

Run those figures past me? I think you'll find the Belfast Metro area houses just under 600,000 people...in comparison the Derry area is around 90,000. I have no idea where you get 1,000,000 living in the north and west.

As for Newry, I only mentioned that to help you with your geography! Whether Newry people go to DUB or not is to miss the point. You want them to go to BFS over BHD...why? Better they stay north in either airport, at least from our economic point of view.
 
skipness1E
Posts: 4880
Joined: Sun Aug 19, 2007 9:18 am

RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:20 pm

The reason BFS lost long haul was that DUB has much larger selection and US Preclearance, it's quite easy to get to as well. BFS is caught between losing short haul to BHD and long haul to it's more competitve neighbour, down South.

btw complaining people can't get to Belfast Airport because it's in Belfast is unintentionally hilarious   IMHO.
I mean how "local" can you get?
 
frostyj
Posts: 1786
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:04 am

RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:22 pm

Yes obviously Belfast has lost to Dublin but I really think if prices were reduced we could get a proper daily flight to Florida too..
[url=http://m.maploco.com/details/5f34zxvq][img]http://www.maploco.com/vmap/s/8395334.png[/img][/url]
 
PlymSpotter
Posts: 10780
Joined: Thu Jun 17, 2004 7:32 am

RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:28 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 41):
You clearly do NOT live in Northern Ireland. Fermanagh is no less than 90 minutes from BHD, I live in County Londonderry and we are all over 90 minutes from BHD, North Antrim is 70 minutes and so is parts of Armagh.

You clearly did not read or comprehend my point then. As you state yourself, you basically have to be right on the border to be more than 90 minutes from BHD. Living somewhere does not provide a carte blanche right to hold a valid opinion either...

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 41):
So actually you will find that most places in Northern Ireland are more than an hour away from the airport. Now I know thats not much but when we have such a small country it is pretty clear the airport location is not ideal.

No location is ideal for everyone, that is unrealistic. Again though, you are completely missing the point by talking about geographical places. What actually matters is the propensity fly and visitor data, not the population figures alone. Take this into account and the vast, vast majority of the NI market, inbound and outbound, is within 30 minutes of BHD, let alone 60.

Quoting downtown273 (Reply 57):
I've actually read this 3-4 times, still don't know if you're serious or you're just kidding.

I would suggest extreme naivety.


Dan  
...love is just a camouflage for what resembles rage again...
 
gordonsmall
Posts: 2106
Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2001 1:52 am

RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:29 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 63):

Yes obviously Belfast has lost to Dublin but I really think if prices were reduced we could get a proper daily flight to Florida too..

I think you need to stop looking at everything from your own narrow perspective. Airlines have limited resources, and generally deploy those resources where it makes the most commercial sense. They are after all commercial enterprises with the sole intention of producing a return for shareholders.

A daily flight to Florida may be well utilised by the people of NI, but it would almost certainly destroy the already thin yields that such routes generate. The whole thing would become counter productive.
Statistically, people who have had the most birthdays tend to live the longest.
 
BritishB747
Posts: 244
Joined: Wed Jun 02, 2010 5:14 pm

RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 10:46 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 50):
This is my country, I don't care about people visiting here, the number one customer to the airports are people from Northern Ireland so we will dictate where our airports are.

Is this not a bit of a childish opinion to have. Does this mean that your opinion is absolutely worthless and should be treated with contempt on a thread that concerns LHR expansion, new routes to MAN, or passenger numbers at EDI for example? You are not from these places so how could you possibly have a useful contribution? Does this also mean that any of your posts in other threads should be ignored, ridiculed and abused? I imagine you dont want your opinions to be slated so why slate other peoples views? The statement just seems somewhat narrow-minded and immature.

As for your university ambitions, as a graduate, might I recommend that you take a slightly more open-minded and balanced approach. If you are doing a subject that involves any sort of research you will have to use referenced evidence to back up your opinions. Without this you cant show how you have developed a rational opinion. Such as;

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 14):
I wish they would just get rid of BHD its not very convenient for anyone.

Do you know everyone in Northern Ireland? If you do not then this statement is totally baseless and unrepresentative of the population. If it was not convenient for anyone then it would not exist. So maybe a retraction of that statement is in order.

Back to the subject in hand. As has been discussed the two airports serve two different markets. Belfast, as the financial centre of Northern Ireland, attracts business people from around the globe who want fast and convenient access to these markets in Belfast, which is where BHD fits in. Meanwhile BFS serves a more leisure/LCC orientated market which provides longer routes and helps stimulate competition.

Airlines will fly where they can make money and where the markets are. If other parts of Northern Ireland were commercially viable over Belfast then surely LDY would be booming. It is simply market demand.

Anyway these are merely my opinions and you are more than entitled to disagree with it. However maybe it would be useful to learn some tact and not slate anyone who has a differing opinion.

Kind Regards
AT5 AT7 AB6 319 320 321 333 33V 343 346 AR8 733 734 736 73G 738 744 752 753 763 77E 77W 788 BET CR7 D10 D38 DHT DH4 E70 E75 E90 F70 J41 M83 S20 SF3
 
sandyb123
Posts: 977
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2007 9:29 pm

RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:16 pm

Last year I turned up at BHD from EDI on BE, picked up a hire car and waited for my colleagues to arrive from EMA. As time went on and increasingly confusing conversations progressed about why we couldn't see each other at the airport exit it became clear that they'd landed at the 'other Belfast airport' BFS

I must admit, personal preferences and detailed operational issues aside, it does seem odd to me that such a small city has two airports.

Sandyb123
Member of the mile high club
 
EIDL
Posts: 889
Joined: Wed Apr 25, 2012 7:11 pm

RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Sun Dec 14, 2014 11:28 pm

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 63):
Yes obviously Belfast has lost to Dublin but I really think if prices were reduced we could get a proper daily flight to Florida too..

Something DUB doesn't even have? No, you won't.
 
abrown532
Posts: 166
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 5:17 pm

RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Mon Dec 15, 2014 12:14 am

Quoting [email protected] (Reply 23):
Clearly not. When I have meetings to attend in central Belfast, it is much quicker and more convenient to fly into BHD than BFS.

Ah Mr [email protected] I wish you a good stay in the best UK city  

Anyway, I shall amalgamate all I have read for each airport...

Belfast International is the biggest, most important airport in Northern Ireland chiefly among which is the significant cargo operation consisting of a DHL A300, UPS 767, two TNT 734's, 5 Jet2 royal mail rotations per evening and a Swiftair (Fedex) E120 Brasilia. This is the bread and butter of BFS as it functions as the largest international air cargo hub of the province. Factoring in the 6 based easyJet, one Thomas Cook A321, the occassional United B757 to Newark and not to mention the dozens of adHoc carriers in the summer season such as Onur Air, Pegasus, BH Air, Balkan Holidays, Thomson, and many many more... Ultimately it may not suit businesspeople as well as BHD but it is a damn sight more important to the nearly 6 million people flying out of BFS annually. Not to mention BFS is an important diversion point for mainland UK traffic and can hande up to a B744 diversion... we had an Air France A340 in a few months back to let a lady give birth!

Belfast City Airport is primarily for the business orientated traveller keen on getting off the plane and into the city as quick as possible to be home again as quick as possible, hence why the more upmarket, mainline carriers such as BA and Aer Lingus choose to operate from this base. Although it is much smaller than BFS it does have its place in the community for this very reason...

City of Derry is basically a underfunded, rundown airstrip on the far north coast with Ryanair as its sole operator... Okay maybe a Thomson or two in the summer but it also has its place for leisure and business pax in the Derry/Londonderry region.... Such as Mr FrosyJ!

Hope I cleared some things up  
 
richcandy
Posts: 754
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2001 4:49 pm

RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:14 am

Hi

Belfast has two airports I really don't think thats likely to change anytime soon. If BHD was able to expand then I think some of the traffic at BFS might think about moving there. However as you have high density housing close by and fairly expensive property just down the coast in places like Helens Bay, Cultra, Holywood etc. There is a lot of local opposition to expansion at BHD.

Quoting Frostyj (Reply 16):
Anyway, they really need to upgrade the airport, roads and also improve the speed of the train service. Of course this will NEVER happen so I am leaving for uni in England. Really getting fed up of this country, we are a third world country in a first world country

I left NI twenty years ago and have lived in London and now near Canterbury. I am sorry to say this but things in England aren't better they are just different. You don't have to pay for water, we do. My parents (in NI) seam to be able to get doctors appointments easily, when I was in London it felt like you had to give 3 months notice to see the doctor. In NI you still have a chance that you can own your own home. For most people who want to live in London thats no longer possible. Except if they are happy to live out of town and have a 1-2 hrs commute each direction. My closet airport is Gatwick 70 mph away with no public transport link. (except via London). I love where I live but when I go back to NI I often see things that are better there, than here.

Alex
 
frostyj
Posts: 1786
Joined: Fri Aug 29, 2014 9:04 am

RE: Why Does Belfast Has Two Separate Airports?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 1:35 pm

Well I won't be conmecting anything. It is worth it although not if it is 1000 more than Dublin.
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