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SLCSFOPDX
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How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 4:53 am

How is DY doing at OAK? I haven't heard anything about how they are performing at OAK. It seems that every time I read something on DY, it only mentions that they fly to LAX, JFK, and FLL in the states and never a mention of OAK. Also how are they doing at FLL, LAX, and JFK? Once their whole thing is settled with our lovely U.S. government, will they look into expanding more in the U.S.? I think SEA, ORD, and BOS, would be great additions for DY.
 
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jfklganyc
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:06 am

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter):
Once their whole thing is settled with our lovely U.S. government, will they look into expanding more in the U.S.? I think SEA, ORD, and BOS, would be great additions for DY.

It is likely not getting settled in their favor.

However, they can expand using their home country as a base of operations. Who would have thought, huh?
 
MaverickM11
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:28 am

So far they're losing their shirt on longhaul, but the flights are still very full in the mid 80s to low 90s.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
futureorthopod
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:38 am

According to LAWA news they will be adding additional flights for upcoming spring/summer season
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 6:38 am

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 1):

So will the existing routes be able to keep flying as they are or will they have to make adjustments to be able to continue to fly those routes?
 
MAH4546
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:36 am

Their existing routes literally probably represent two-thirds of demand between the U.S. and Scandanavia. If you can't make NYC/LA/Miami/SF work with low fare structure, nothing else will work. No four U.S. cities have as much demand to/from the region as those, nothing comes even close.
a.
 
timpdx
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:22 pm

I will find out tomorrow night as I fly them the first time LAX-LGW, plane looks pretty full by the seating chart, but those can be deceiving. My first flight on the 787  
Flown 2018: LAX, ARN, DXB, ALA, TAS, UCG, ASB, MYP, GYD, TBS, KUT, BER, TLS, SVO, CCF, DUB, LGW, MEX, BUR, PDX, ORD, SLC, SNA
Upcoming 2018: STL, MIA, BZE, IAH, BHM, LHR, DFW, PHX
 
S75752
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 3:29 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 5):
No four U.S. cities have as much demand to/from the region as those, nothing comes even close.

I'm particularly curious how their LGW flights are doing. I wouldn't be surprised if those are their most successful, in fact.
I'm still hoping that they announce a year round OAK-LGW, especially given the SFO frequency increases from VS and BA. Their onboard product looks pretty good from what little I've seen, but I haven't seen much posted about it at all. That said...

Quoting timpdx (Reply 6):
I will find out tomorrow night as I fly them the first time LAX-LGW, plane looks pretty full by the seating chart, but those can be deceiving. My first flight on the 787

Please do consider posting up a trip report or at least some images, I'm very curious what their onboard service and product like! It's been difficult finding much showcasing what they have to offer.
 
timpdx
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:37 pm

S75752: Will take lots of pics and do a trip report, sure. Debating whether to spring for the premium seats going over its $370 more (but over a $grand coming back, which is the longer flight with headwinds and all). They don't seem to offer seating choice for premium, for some reason, and I want a window seat, since that is one of the strong points of the 787. Maybe I can choose to upgrade later today within 24 hours of the flight?
Flown 2018: LAX, ARN, DXB, ALA, TAS, UCG, ASB, MYP, GYD, TBS, KUT, BER, TLS, SVO, CCF, DUB, LGW, MEX, BUR, PDX, ORD, SLC, SNA
Upcoming 2018: STL, MIA, BZE, IAH, BHM, LHR, DFW, PHX
 
MAH4546
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:45 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 7):
I'm particularly curious how their LGW flights are doing. I wouldn't be surprised if those are their most successful, in fact.

I'd be shocked. FLLLGW was quickly reduced to 1x weekly. The markets are all highly competitive with tons of capacity; while they have most of their Scandinavia markets to their lonesome.
a.
 
slcdeltarumd11
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 5:51 pm

Quoting timpdx (Reply 8):
S75752: Will take lots of pics and do a trip report, sure. Debating whether to spring for the premium seats going over its $370 more (but over a $grand coming back, which is the longer flight with headwinds and all). They don't seem to offer seating choice for premium, for some reason, and I want a window seat, since that is one of the strong points of the 787. Maybe I can choose to upgrade later today within 24 hours of the flight?

$370 more is a bargain from FLL/OAK/LAX to Europe. Still a good deal from JFK. . Those are pretty long flights. I would grab that will you can, unless your on a budget or something. Its the direction you want it to be able to sleep on the plane. Going home you want to stay awake, just watch a movie. I always do coach home from Europe i want to stay awake to fight jet lag. Its going to Europe that a larger seat is totally worth it, plus you wanna start a vacation off on a good note and go in not exhausted.
 
timpdx
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:06 pm

Pulled the trigger on the upgrade   Last year when I did LAX-IST I was sorry I did not upgrade for a similar amount, when I boarded that flight and walked by the TK premium econ cabin it almost like business class. (I know now TK are pulling that product out)

So will have to do a trip report from both cabins now.
Flown 2018: LAX, ARN, DXB, ALA, TAS, UCG, ASB, MYP, GYD, TBS, KUT, BER, TLS, SVO, CCF, DUB, LGW, MEX, BUR, PDX, ORD, SLC, SNA
Upcoming 2018: STL, MIA, BZE, IAH, BHM, LHR, DFW, PHX
 
a318
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:09 pm

I flew FLL-OSL in August on DY and was very impressed with their service and aircraft. I paid $230 including taxes for a one-way flight, which later dropped in price to $185!

I found their seats comfortable in economy and their IFE to be excellent. However if you didn't purchase a meal don't expect the crew to even give you a second look until the "marketplace" opens up. Nothing is included in the price of your ticket, even a cup of water will cost you.

However, overall a unique product on a beautiful aircraft! Enjoy!
 
B747forever
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:11 pm

Quoting a318 (Reply 12):
Nothing is included in the price of your ticket, even a cup of water will cost you.

I thought water was the only thing they offered all pax, free of charge.
Work Hard, Fly Right
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:31 pm

Quoting a318 (Reply 12):
I found their seats comfortable in economy and their IFE to be excellent. However if you didn't purchase a meal don't expect the crew to even give you a second look until the "marketplace" opens up. Nothing is included in the price of your ticket, even a cup of water will cost you.

I second this. I just flew Norwegian on their non-stop from London to JFK and thought the flight was really great. Especially considering I had paid like $340 for the ticket. The seat and recline actually seemed really good, of course I wasn't expecting much from reading online prior to the flight, but I was pleasantly surprised.

I would strongly encourage paying the extra jump in fare that gives you a meal and the checked baggage. It's cheaper than if purchased separately. Plus the meal service takes a while since they bring everything out individually. If you didn't purchase a meal, you might be waiting quite a bit of time before the buy on board stuff opens up. And I did not see water being served for free. In fact there was a young lady begging for water from a flight attendant towards the end of the flight as she had no credit card that would work for the buy on board program. I planned ahead and bought two huge bottles of water at the airport before the the flight. They were a lifesaver.

Overall, I got a very "sterile" impression of the cabin. Everything was bare bones, but this isn't necessarily a bad thing considering the ticket cost. I was surprised that most of the flight attendants were all young Americans based in either FLL or JFK.

I wouldn't think twice about booking another flight. Especially as a cheap way for me to get to Europe from Oakland.
 
MCO2BRS
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 7:36 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
I'd be shocked. FLLLGW was quickly reduced to 1x weekly. The markets are all highly competitive with tons of capacity; while they have most of their Scandinavia markets to their lonesome.

I've heard rumor around LGW that FLL will not last beyond next year due to the loads being so poor. How true this is, I don't know.

I'm tempted to try them on my next trip to the U.S. but still very much on the fence about it. Will be interesting to see some trip reports.

MCO 2 BRS
 
N1120A
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:10 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Thread starter):
Once their whole thing is settled with our lovely U.S. government

So, you have a problem with the government expecting compliance with the law? You like the idea of social dumping, at the cost of businesses that operate ethically?

Quoting a318 (Reply 12):
Nothing is included in the price of your ticket, even a cup of water will cost you.

I'm fairly sure that the US government would not allow them to charge for water. They hammered US on that when the flirted with charging for drinks in Y.
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UALWN
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:52 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):
ou like the idea of social dumping, at the cost of businesses that operate ethically?

And what would those businesses be that operate ethically? The US majors that outsource most of their flights to the regionals were FA's and even FO's work basically for food?
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N1120A
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 8:57 pm

Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 14):
And I did not see water being served for free. In fact there was a young lady begging for water from a flight attendant towards the end of the flight as she had no credit card that would work for the buy on board program. I planned ahead and bought two huge bottles of water at the airport before the the flight. They were a lifesaver.

That should inspire a DOT complaint. US got hammered for it, and relented.

Quoting UALWN (Reply 17):
And what would those businesses be that operate ethically? The US majors that outsource most of their flights to the regionals were FA's and even FO's work basically for food?

At least those people work on American contracts, under US law. Now, we can argue whether the US has enough protection for workers and their wages, but that is a different argument. Also, do you see US majors outsourcing their long haul?
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
UALWN
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:14 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Now, we can argue whether the US has enough protection for workers and their wages, but that is a different argument.

No, it's exactly the same argument: US workers have indeed much less protection than their EU counterparts: "Social dumping, social dumping!"
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N1120A
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:18 pm

Quoting UALWN (Reply 19):
No, it's exactly the same argument: US workers have indeed much less protection than their EU counterparts: "Social dumping, social dumping!"

Except their Irish ones. Hence the problem with Thai workers, being paid Thai wages, on Irish contracts, for a Norwegian airline.

Its social dumping and should never be allowed.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
UALWN
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:22 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):
Its social dumping and should never be allowed.

It's just a matter of degree: which is the level of social protection below which one can scream "social dumping"? The one in Thailand? Or the one in Texas?
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NYC-air
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:22 pm

Would love to see partnership with JetBlue! Imagine Norwegian operating from JFK T5, getting connecting pax, and letting us New Yorkers get TrueBlue points.
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:24 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 20):

I have no problem with it. DY was just simply ahead of the curve and smarter than airlines such as SK, DL, BA, UA, AA, KL, and LH.
 
FlyHossD
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 9:57 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 23):
I have no problem with it. DY was just simply ahead of the curve and smarter than airlines such as SK, DL, BA, UA, AA, KL, and LH.

Not to mention that Norwegian Air Shuttle operates in violation of the treaty. Which is to say that it's an illegal operation.
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
SLCSFOPDX
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 10:31 pm

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 24):

Who cares. It's all about the $$$.
 
Jetxdammit
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:43 pm

Quoting a318 (Reply 12):
even a cup of water will cost you.

Supposedly that policy changed a year ago...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/tr...down-on-water-and-cash-policy.html

I'll find out when I fly them in a couple of weeks.
 
S75752
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:43 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 16):

So, you have a problem with the government expecting compliance with the law? You like the idea of social dumping, at the cost of businesses that operate ethically?

I really don't get why everyone is getting so crazy about it. Paying Thai workers to work on their airline?
Okay, what sort of wage law is it following then? Thai wage law, Norwegian wage law, Irish wage law?

So far, it's feeling more like something that US airlines found they could nitpick the crap out of for the sake of avoiding competition to hopefully get big daddy government to step in, and did. Which would be typical. DY isn't even the big and crazy ME3 that a lot are feeling the heat from anyways! They send a handfull of 788's here, not jumbo-jets.

Quoting timpdx (Reply 11):

So will have to do a trip report from both cabins now.

Really looking forward to it!   

Regarding onboard service, I'm curious if they do in fact have power ports at every seat, if the IFE has costs as well (I'd be surprised if it doesn't), and finally if the Buy-on-board is open throughout the whole flight VX style...

[Edited 2014-12-16 15:46:12]

Quoting MCO2BRS (Reply 15):

I've heard rumor around LGW that FLL will not last beyond next year due to the loads being so poor. How true this is, I don't know.

How is FLL for business travellers? My impression has been that MIA is the main business serving airport with FLL serving leisure, but why would that be, if they're just a few miles apart?

I'd think that OAK, JFK, and LAX all have its stronger business ties with the UK though, so maybe those would have more success to LGW.
I see no reason that businesses wouldn't choose DY, considering that they do in fact also have connecting flights from each of their hubs, though the connections still need a bit more development. I honestly think that with that in mind, they could probably do well with increasing their ticket prices a bit so they can actually start turning a profit.


[Edited 2014-12-16 15:48:41]
 
Mir
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 16, 2014 11:54 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 27):
I really don't get why everyone is getting so crazy about it. Paying Thai workers to work on their airline?
Okay, what sort of wage law is it following then? Thai wage law, Norwegian wage law, Irish wage law?

Thai wage law (or it might be Singaporean). It's not an issue that the crew is Thai - the issue is that they are being employed by a company outside the jurisdiction of either the EU or the US for routes between the EU and the US. On its own, that doesn't present a problem. But today it's Thailand (or Singapore) - tomorrow it might be somewhere else with even lower labor standards that neither the EU nor the US have control over. Or even if Norwegian doesn't do that, some other company could use Norwegian's precedent to do it. It's a huge opportunity for social dumping.

If the crew was employed in the EU or US, then at least one of the parties to the EU-US agreement would have some oversight of the employment conditions.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
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Aeroflot777
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:43 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 27):
Regarding onboard service, I'm curious if they do in fact have power ports at every seat, if the IFE has costs as well (I'd be surprised if it doesn't), and finally if the Buy-on-board is open throughout the whole flight VX style...

On my LGW-JFK flight, there were no charges for the IFE. Everything was free and the selection was very extensive. As for their buy on board... the marketplace opens like 30 minutes after meals are finished being served to everyone who has pre-ordered. On our flight, that was approximately two hours after take-off. The market remained open throughout the rest of the flight and shut down approximately one hour prior to landing at JFK.

Hope that helps...
 
LN-KGL
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Wed Dec 17, 2014 12:56 am

With you definition Mir no Norwegian citizen would be allowed to crew Norwegian Air Shuttle's 787s. You see Norway is not a member of the EU. Norway on the other hand is a member EEA, is also a Schengen agreement member, an EFTA member, a NATO member + a member of more than 70 other international organizations.

The Open Skies agreement was in 2011 renamed to "Air Transport Agreement between the United States of America, of the first part, the European Union and its Member States, of the second part, Iceland, of the third part, and the Kingdom of Norway, of the fourth part" as the three open skies agreements EU-US, Iceland-US and Norway-US were merged to one.
 
FlyHossD
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Wed Dec 17, 2014 1:32 am

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 30):
The Open Skies agreement was in 2011 renamed to "Air Transport Agreement between the United States of America, of the first part, the European Union and its Member States, of the second part, Iceland, of the third part, and the Kingdom of Norway, of the fourth part" as the three open skies agreements EU-US, Iceland-US and Norway-US were merged to one.

Correct. And Norwegian Air Shuttle is violating that treaty.

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 25):
Who cares. It's all about the $$$.

And when your job is illegally outsourced....?
My statements do not represent my former employer or my current employer and are my opinions only.
 
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saleya22r
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Wed Dec 17, 2014 7:25 pm

Quoting a318 (Reply 12):
I found their seats comfortable in economy and their IFE to be excellent. However if you didn't purchase a meal don't expect the crew to even give you a second look until the "marketplace" opens up. Nothing is included in the price of your ticket, even a cup of water will cost you.

I flew FLL LGW on Dec 1-2. My first 787 "experience". A great plane but... I agree, seats are ok, at least as good as in coach on, say, IB or LH. Nothing was free. A blanket cost 5$. The prepaid mail was served at 3 AM EST time as we departed 2+ hours late. Who wants to dine then? There was an alleged water leak from one of the lavatories, there was a rumor at the gate that frozen water had to be melted and removed?? Anyways, once airborne there was no water in the toilets. All pax were given water bottles when boarding. No coffee, no tea. Load factor must have been 90-95. The price for a one way ticket was good, 800+ $ for two, seats luggage and meals included. A good option if you take a TATL cruise and need a flight back as in our case. FLL T3 was very basic, actually some renovation&painting was being done there after midnight. Would I choose them again? Probably only if I need a one way ticket over the pond.
 
N1120A
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Wed Dec 17, 2014 10:50 pm

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 23):
I have no problem with it. DY was just simply ahead of the curve and smarter than airlines such as SK, DL, BA, UA, AA, KL, and LH.

I have a huge problem with companies breaking the law.

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 24):
Not to mention that Norwegian Air Shuttle operates in violation of the treaty. Which is to say that it's an illegal operation.

Exactly.

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 25):

Who cares. It's all about the $$$.

Who cares if someone comes and steals your television? Its all about the $$$$, after all.

Quoting jetxdammit (Reply 26):
Supposedly that policy changed a year ago..

Would make sense.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 27):
I really don't get why everyone is getting so crazy about it. Paying Thai workers to work on their airline?
Okay, what sort of wage law is it following then? Thai wage law, Norwegian wage law, Irish wage law?

Thai.

Quoting Mir (Reply 28):
If the crew was employed in the EU or US, then at least one of the parties to the EU-US agreement would have some oversight of the employment conditions.

Exactly

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 31):
Correct. And Norwegian Air Shuttle is violating that treaty.

Yup.
Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
 
Mir
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Wed Dec 17, 2014 11:46 pm

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 30):
With you definition Mir no Norwegian citizen would be allowed to crew Norwegian Air Shuttle's 787s. You see Norway is not a member of the EU. Norway on the other hand is a member EEA, is also a Schengen agreement member, an EFTA member, a NATO member + a member of more than 70 other international organizations.

A) Norwegian is trying to offshore to Ireland so that they don't have to hire people under Norwegian law, so I don't think they'd view that as a drawback.

B) I intended for the non-EU signatories to the agreement to fall under the umbrella of "EU". I might not have made that clear.

-Mir
7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
 
prebennorholm
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:12 am

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 25):
Who cares.

I do.

Quoting SLCSFOPDX (Reply 25):
It's all about the $$$.

Exacly. They (potentially) force Danish crews out of job, so I have spend my tax money to pay their unemployment benefit and re-education for another job. I am forced to pay those $$$ even when I don't fly with Norwegian.

Quoting FlyHossD (Reply 24):
Not to mention that Norwegian Air Shuttle operates in violation of the treaty. Which is to say that it's an illegal operation.

Legal or illegal? The "judge" hasn't spoken yet. It is clearly outside the intentions of the treaty, but unfortunately the wording isn't very clear.

Since it takes so long time for the FAA to speak out, then I wouldn't wonder if the EU and US may be negotiating a revised treaty.
Always keep your number of landings equal to your number of take-offs
 
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lesfalls
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Thu Dec 18, 2014 12:27 am

Flew JFK-OSL and CPH-JFK and loads were 100%. Looks as if their doing good.Their is a rumor that they will start OSL-ORD. OSL does have a market TO Chicago.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
Flopped
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Thu Dec 18, 2014 6:36 am

I'm not sure where people get that they cancelled one of the LGW/FLL flights. This isn't true. They still have the same flights on Monday and Friday. The only one the cancelled was the Tuesday night flight from CPH due to equipment issues which they plan to resolve by spring and resume service. I don't recall a time that they've had less than 230 passengers on the LGW flight. Usually, its around 270 pax.
 
lpdal
Posts: 1971
Joined: Sat Mar 24, 2012 9:49 pm

RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Thu Dec 18, 2014 7:00 am

The overall reception, as well as ontime performance for DY at FLL can be described as "meh". The European low-fare-hunters love the carrier, but we locals are very wary of DY. Almost every week you'll see their 787s departing around or way past midnight due to delays. And the facilities in T3, only at the moment, are very basic (only a few restaurants and one duty free outlet). Condor's service to FRA has managed to survive, so, speaking in the most general aura, there is obviously a tiny niche market for LCC service on FLL-Europe.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
The markets are all highly competitive with tons of capacity;

At FLL we have DE to FRA... and that's it. If you're only speaking of FLL, of course, and not including MIA. DY's nonstops to various cities in the EU and elsewhere are very welcomed, but their ontime performance needs to improve, and T3 needs to be upgraded.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 27):
How is FLL for business travellers? My impression has been that MIA is the main business serving airport with FLL serving leisure, but why would that be, if they're just a few miles apart?

The facilities are spartan, but staff are generally very senior and friendly. There's a DL Sky Club in T2, and a United Club in T1 with their own business centers. Those are pretty much the only business facilities to speak of, and since DY departs out of T3, you're pretty much out of luck.

Quoting saleya22r (Reply 32):
FLL T3 was very basic, actually some renovation&painting was being done there after midnight

They recently installed marble floors, and will be adding moodlighting to most of the ticketing desks. Stay tuned.  
Quoting Aeroflot777 (Reply 14):
It's cheaper than if purchased separately. Plus the meal service takes a while since they bring everything out individually. If you didn't purchase a meal, you might be waiting quite a bit of time before the buy on board stuff opens up. And I did not see water being served for free. In fact there was a young lady begging for water from a flight attendant towards the end of the flight as she had no credit card that would work for the buy on board program.

That sounds absolutely awful. I would have bought her a water, and a meal to go along with it. DY sounds like the NK of the translantic market, for all intents and purposes.

-LPDAL

[Edited 2014-12-17 23:22:16]
TWU represented. All of my views and posted content are mine alone, and should not be viewed as official communication from my employer, its subsidiaries thereof, or any other entities or airlines.
 
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lesfalls
Posts: 3507
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Fri Dec 19, 2014 12:57 am

Quoting LPDAL (Reply 38):
you'll see their 787s departing around or way past midnight due to delays.

Wasnt it more that they were like that before but arent they now ok with their FLL operations.I know that their operations from JFK and all other cities are ok.
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
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AirPacific747
Posts: 9755
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RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:26 am

Not going to fly them longhaul. First of all, there have been so many stories about stranded passengers stuck in BKK or OAK for up to two days without compensation, due to problems with the aircraft. Secondly, I looked at air fares to Florida in February and found that BA, AF and LH were all cheaper if you take meal and baggage fees into account. Plus if there is a delay or cancellation you will get compensated and rebooked. The few times I checked the prices with DY, they were not the cheapest.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18617
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Fri Dec 19, 2014 8:34 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 40):
Secondly, I looked at air fares to Florida in February and found that BA, AF and LH were all cheaper if you take meal and baggage fees into account. Plus if there is a delay or cancellation you will get compensated and rebooked.

   I think this is the biggest problem with longhaul LCC, and BA/AF/LH/etc will obviously get the business and high yield traffic that won't touch Norwegian/Air Asia X with a barge pole
I don't take responsibility at all
 
Kevin777
Posts: 951
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Fri Dec 19, 2014 10:07 am

I have never flown DY long-haul (want to try it indeed though), but from what I hear, their IC flights are pretty full (and that is also my impression from this thread).

However, load-factor alone is no measurement of performance, and I'm afraid that DY is hemeraging money, still, on this operation, because yields are so poor.

A few weeks ago I just randomly checked fares CPH-BKK, and if you wanted to travel in a week for two weeks, DY came in the cheapest at EUR 450 return. Now, that does not include luggage and meals, but still, very cheap. EUR 450 is not unheard of in the CPH-BKK market at all, especially from EK and QR, but DY is nonstop service, and their EUR 450 was practically a walk-up fare - this is not comforting from a yield perspective at all.

Majors like BA are also getting tough at DY, dumping fares at destinations where DY offers direct service. E.g. CPH-LAX, where BA now has fares around EUR 400 (dirt cheap, and never seen before), return and including onboard service (and with many more departures to choose from). On, say, CPH-LAS or CPH-PHX, BA's fares are more like EUR 500-550. This is very had to compete with for DY, especially in a leisure-oriented market where customers' willingness to pay for nonstop service is modest.

This does just slightly remind me of BA and other legacies back in the days of Laker Skytrain and the early days of VS... But still, it's not as bad as back then at all, and you cannot blame BA etc. for responding to competition.

I think DY is in for a tough one here - but they have the willingness and not least the deep pockets to fight.

Kevin777  
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
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lesfalls
Posts: 3507
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 pm

RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:48 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 40):
I looked at air fares to Florida in February and found that BA, AF and LH were all cheaper

You might want to know that airfares from Europe are cheaper on the big carriers (By 1,000 dollars). For people living in the US it is much cheaper then for those living in Europe(I wonder why?).

Lesfalls
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
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AirPacific747
Posts: 9755
Joined: Mon May 19, 2008 9:52 am

RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Sat Dec 20, 2014 1:27 am

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 43):

So do I. I paid 450 EUR return from CPH to MIA with BA.
 
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lesfalls
Posts: 3507
Joined: Fri Dec 06, 2013 11:58 pm

RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Sat Dec 20, 2014 3:11 am

Quoting AirPacific747 (Reply 44):
I paid 450 EUR return from CPH to MIA with BA.

That is a really good fair. I cant belive that BA would offer such a cheap fair.I cant even fly BA since their too expensive for me
  .
Lufthansa: Einfach ein bisschen besser.
 
S75752
Posts: 1470
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:38 pm

RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:42 am

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 45):

That is a really good fair. I cant belive that BA would offer such a cheap fair.I cant even fly BA since their too expensive for me

I wish they'd have that effect here at SFO!

Seriously, they need to get a OAK-LGW up and running, biggest hole in their route system! Deal with the weird issues, and get that started!
 
Kevin777
Posts: 951
Joined: Mon Sep 25, 2006 5:36 pm

RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:57 am

BA just opened up a Christmas fare sale from CPH via LHR to five cities in the US:

Return fares in Y in Euro (of course including all taxes and fees, luggage and onboard service):

JFK/EWR: 358 - DY destination
MIA: 412 - DY destination (MCO)
LAX: 438 - DY destination
SFO: 442 - DY destination (OAK, from ARN though)
LAS: 633 - not a DY destination

It's no coincidence that the DY destinations are so much cheaper - BA is going right for the neck on DY here.

If I go to DY's website and find the absolute cheapest dates to NYC (not many of them), I get:

Basic Fare: 282
Low Fare Plus: 389 (this includes meals + checked baggage, so similar to BA product.)

So even DY's lowest lead-in fare is more expensive than BA's fare (with much higher availability).

DY is only cheaper if you do not meet Saturday night stay requirements from BA, and/or travel without luggage and don't eat airline food

Kevin777
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: How Is Norwegian Doing At OAK, LAX, JFK, & FLL?

Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:21 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 18):
Also, do you see US majors outsourcing their long haul?

One could argue that yes they are through JVs, alliances, codeshares, etc.

All this complaining about social dumping when it has been going on for years. If you really care then stop buying stuff from China, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Vietnam, etc. those places have killed millions of Western jobs. Don't be hypocrites.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein

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