FWAERJ
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Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Wed Dec 17, 2014 2:12 pm

Since Part MD-11 is archived and important news has happened since then, it's time to start MD-12. (Just because McDonnell Douglas never built it doesn't mean that it can't be named after it.)

First off, FWA's pax numbers for November:
http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/Consolidated%20Activity%20Report.pdf

Some notables:
-Pax traffic (enplanements and deplanements) is up 14.82% since November 2013 and 7.48% YTD
-FWA is on track to break the 600K pax mark for 2014, a number not seen since the start of the Great Recession, by at least 30,000 pax
-If you combine Eagle and US Express, they carried almost as many pax as DL
-G4 also did really well with a 24% increase over last November, as did UA with a 21% increase
-Cargo is up 11.91% over last November

Also notable from FWA's Facebook page is that the Eagle ticket counter recently got the new AA "sky" backdrop along with the new DFW-style wood and metal kiosks. (Until everything AA goes to Sabre and Shares is decommissioned on the L-US side in mid-2015, FWA pax check in at one set of kiosks for ORD and DFW and another for PHL and CLT.) The UA ticket counter replaced the tulip backdrop with the globe when UA moved to a portion of DL's unused space. DGS handles both DL and UA at FWA, Trego-Dugan handles G4, and AA is handled by Envoy.

As we all know, the 9E MX hangar at FWA is being taken over by OO, who plans to increase the number of CR2s worked on per night from 2 to 3 up to between 3 and 4.

Up US 30, GYY's runway extension to 9,000 ft and the removal of the railroad tracks are basically done. Since G4 left the door open for a return to GYY once this happened, could we see G4 retry GYY shortly? Or could we see NK or F9 use GYY as an MDW alternate, especially since ORD gate space is tight?

Now it's your turn, SBN, IND, and EVV fans.
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floridaflyboy
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Wed Dec 17, 2014 4:13 pm

WN adding IND-LAX/BOS in its latest schedule add.

1x LAX and 2x BOS.
Good goes around!
 
Indy
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:03 pm

Did not see the WN adds coming. I wonder why they are suddenly adding IND service? It was DC recently and now BOS and LAX. They had never shown much interest in IND in the past.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Wed Dec 17, 2014 6:19 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 2):
I wonder why they are suddenly adding IND service?

With the Indianapolis economy booming and other airlines cutting back, one of the airlines that is currently serving IND had to do something - and that airline is WN.

Also keep in mind that after the FL integration, WN is now the largest carrier at IND. As a result, I feel that WN wants to bulk up their strength at IND now that they are #1 (which probably comes with a lot of Rapid Rewards members, many of which were former A+ Rewards members).

Quoting floridaflyboy (Reply 1):
1x LAX

WN flew IND-LAX from the days of the 73G entering the fleet until around 2006 or 2007. IIRC, they ended it when the NW focus city was giving everyone else at IND heartburn and when WN was running low on gate space at LAX. Now that US moved from T1 to T6, WN has much more breathing room at LAX to add cities like IND.
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FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Fri Dec 19, 2014 1:18 pm

A couple more things:

-Since it's almost a given that the US-Cuba travel ban will be lifted, could we see DL add a seasonal IND-HAV in addition to their existing year-round IND-CUN and seasonal IND-MBJ/NAS services?
-With the success of PHL and CLT from FWA, could we see FWA-CLT go double-daily in the near future?
-Around the same time that oil started to plummet, G4 switched FWA-AZA from the A319 to the MD-80. Now that oil has dropped another $20/barrel since and is poised to go down further, will FWA-LAS return on the MD-80?
-Will G4 do IND-MYR in addition to FWA-MYR this season? I'd say there's a real good chance.
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Indy
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:17 pm

Someone had posted an update to the IND Wikipedia page that BA is starting LHR service on May 5th. Has anyone heard anything about it? I have removed the addition because there was absolutely no citation. An addition that significant needs some kind of proof.
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:17 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 5):
Someone had posted an update to the IND Wikipedia page that BA is starting LHR service on May 5th. Has anyone heard anything about it? I have removed the addition because there was absolutely no citation. An addition that significant needs some kind of proof.

IIRC, BA has said that there will be no new US-LHR routes in 2015.

But given the fluid nature of the airline industry and the fact that VS had to return some of the Little Red slots to BA since that statement was made, who knows if BA has changed their stance. And let's not forget the business ties between IND and London - mostly in the pharmaceutical industry, but also Rolls-Royce with big plants and R&D centers on both sides of the potential route. It would be big news if IND-LHR does happen, and I'd say that there's a 100% chance that it will be flown on a Dreamliner (and 90% chance that it's a -8), the most logical plane for IND-LHR in the BA fleet by far.
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A340Spotter
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:22 am

For the SBN locals,

Hearing Notre Dame will be flying out for their Bowl game on December 26th with a DL B744, departing some time around 10am. Hope to be out there myself!

JSD
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
flyboy80
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Mon Dec 22, 2014 3:43 pm

What about Seattle service?

I notice that IND-SLC service has gone seasonal.

Are DL and AA performing well enough to maintain their IND-LAX service with the addition of WN? Seems like a bit of capacity on this route.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:06 pm

Quoting flyboy80 (Reply 8):
What about Seattle service?

I could see that as an AS/OO E175 route.

And of course, DL will respond for reasons that we know all too well.
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A340Spotter
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:01 am

Delta operated N663US in/out of SBN this morning for the Notre Dame Bowl game charter to KBNA:



Also had Miami Air operating a sub-service for Allegiant on their PGD round-trip today (B738 N733MA).

JSD
"Irregardless, it's a Cat III airplane, we don't need an alternate!"
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:04 pm

Quoting A340Spotter (Reply 10):
Delta operated N663US in/out of SBN this morning for the Notre Dame Bowl game charter to KBNA:

Beautiful bird - too bad DL is getting rid of them. FWA occasionally sees a 747 as well, as UPS uses FWA for 747F pilot training.

Here's a small photo of the AA "sky" backdrop at FWA.
New American Airlines backdrop at FWA ticket counter.

The backdrop also has a decal saying "Also serving US Airways".
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FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:49 pm

Looking back, 2014 was a great year for FWA. We finally got AA/US PHL and CLT service, both of which did great out of the gate (pun intended). OO announced plans to take over the 9E MX base and increase the DL Connection CR2 work done there. And a new, better rental car lot was built with covered spaces. In the end, when the numbers come out next month, FWA's pax numbers for 2014 should be at 620,000+ combined enplanements and deplanements - a ten-year high for the airport. When you think about all the traffic that FWA was losing to other airports over the years, that's a really good number, and I could see FWA getting to 750,000 pax in the mid-term and 1 million pax in the long term.

What will 2015 bring to FWA - the much-rumored G4 to LAS? UA to EWR, now that PHL is doing so well, and/or a UA flight to DEN that has been rumored for a decade? An announcement of a terminal expansion? Only time will tell.

Of note if you're a DL frequent flyer out of SBN or FWA and participate in Thanks Again: As of January, you will not be able to earn SkyMiles by using Thanks Again. This change, driven by a DL decision to limit the number of SkyMiles partners, affects all airports participating in the program - not just SBN and FWA.
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FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Mon Jan 05, 2015 9:43 pm

With AA basing large RJs out of DFW now, does anyone else see them switching the existing FWA-DFW flights, starting SBN-DFW, or adding frequency on IND-DFW with them?
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FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:15 pm

According to the IND website, G4 will be using Concourse A when they start service from IND. Not surprising given the fact that A is far more underutilized than B.

I also found a YouTube video regarding IND (for some reason, my computer won't let me cut and paste right now, but you can look for "ACI did you know" on YouTube). It had some pretty impressive statistics:
-IND serves over 4x the population of the Indianapolis metro area (not surprising given that IND is the primary airport for Bloomington, Lafayette, Muncie, Anderson, and Columbus and a popular alternate to CVG, SDF, FWA, CMI, and BMI)
-IND is the 22nd biggest cargo airport in the world (in no question thanks to FedEx)
-IND generates over $4 billion in economic impact (I wonder how much the breakdown is between pax service and cargo)
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exFWAOONW
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:49 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 11):
as UPS uses FWA for 747F pilot training.

UA did the same back in the 70s. I remember looking at them many times in the moonlight while on final to r/w 4.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 12):
and/or a UA flight to DEN that has been rumored for a decade?

I'm dubious. FWADEN was far from sucessful when UA first tried it. They even made it FWA-SBN-DEN to try and fill up a 727. The UA hub in DEN isn't much bigger now than it was then. It does have international flights now, so there is better connecting possibilities this go-round. Who knows, it might work this time, especially for travellers Westbound.

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 12):
An announcement of a terminal expansion? Only time will tell.

The only thing I could see happening is additional jetways. This would require a re-alignment of the lower level gates.
Is just me, or is flying not as much fun anymore?
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Fri Jan 09, 2015 1:39 am

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 15):
The only thing I could see happening is additional jetways. This would require a re-alignment of the lower level gates.

A half-height jetway is being added to gate 4 on the lower level, and I think other lower-level gates (save for gate 2 with the Commute-a-Walk) could get them as well. That way, FWA could move the CRJs to the lower-level gates and use the upper-level gates for planes that truly need them like G4's fleet, the inevitable E-Jets, and DL 717s.

FWA is a CUTE airport, so they can reshuffle gates in a jiffy.

Quoting exFWAOONW (Reply 15):
I'm dubious. FWADEN was far from sucessful when UA first tried it. They even made it FWA-SBN-DEN to try and fill up a 727. The UA hub in DEN isn't much bigger now than it was then. It does have international flights now, so there is better connecting possibilities this go-round. Who knows, it might work this time, especially for travellers Westbound.

It would work a lot better this time. Westbound traffic in general has grown a lot since the days before and immediately after deregulation, which is part of the reason why Eagle added FWA-DFW 15 years ago and also a reason why DL serves FWA-MSP now.
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atypical
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:16 pm

"In other news, Allegiant announced the addition of low-cost, twice weekly nonstop jet service to Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood from Indianapolis beginning on April 8, 2015, continuing Allegiant’s rapid expansion in Indianapolis.

Allegiant’s launch of service from Indianapolis next month will be the largest in the company’s history, when it will inaugurate nonstop service to five destinations: Las Vegas, Sanford, St. Petersburg/Clearwater, Punta Gorda and seasonal service to New Orleans. Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood is the carrier’s fourth Florida destination announced from Indianapolis"

I thought Cincinnati was their biggest expansion to date. Of course Indy has been leading Cincinnati passengers for a couple of years so I guess it shouldn't. The last time (years ago) Cincinnati was a damn busy airport, I can't picture it differently now.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Wed Jan 14, 2015 4:36 pm

Quoting atypical (Reply 17):

"In other news, Allegiant announced the addition of low-cost, twice weekly nonstop jet service to Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood from Indianapolis beginning on April 8, 2015, continuing Allegiant’s rapid expansion in Indianapolis.

Allegiant’s launch of service from Indianapolis next month will be the largest in the company’s history, when it will inaugurate nonstop service to five destinations: Las Vegas, Sanford, St. Petersburg/Clearwater, Punta Gorda and seasonal service to New Orleans. Fort Lauderdale/Hollywood is the carrier’s fourth Florida destination announced from Indianapolis"

The only competition that G4 will have on IND-FLL is WN, which charges higher fares than G4. Of course, G4 is a ULCC and WN is the "bags fly free" airline, and WN flies the route daily. Both airlines can coexist on IND-FLL based on fare alone. It should be noted that G4 tried both FWA-FLL and SBN-FLL for a while, but dropped both quickly because of the congestion problems that FLL had until recently. Maybe if the IND-FLL route works well, G4 will consider bringing back SBN and FWA to FLL.

FWA's full-year numbers for 2014 should be out shortly, and they should be the best in a decade. As always, I will post a link when they are available.
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freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Tue Jan 20, 2015 12:27 am

SBN with the addition of the Newark flight in October has finally resumed turning positive numbers in the number of passengers enplaned. Even a 1% gain is better than the losses suffered when Frontier left.

http://www.flysbn.com/documents/CompositeStatsNov2014.pdf
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:33 am

Full-year numbers for FWA for 2014 (along with December 2014's numbers) are in:
http://fwairport.com/uploads/page/ACTIVITY_12_2014.pdf

December 2014 vs. December 2013:
-Enplanements and deplanements up a whopping 21.18%
-58,401 pax in 12/14 vs. 48,195 in 12/13 - an increase of 10,206 pax
-Cargo down 19.3%

Full-year 2014 vs. full-year 2013:
-Enplanements and deplanements up 8.59%
-643,887 pax in 2014 vs. 592,943 in 2013 - an increase of 50,944 pax, and the best numbers for FWA in over a decade
-Cargo down 11%

Market share for full-year 2014:
-DL 34.62%
-AA + US 27.84%
-G4 24.82%
-UA 12.25%
-Charters 0.46%

For passenger service, these are some impressive numbers. I suspect that as the PHL and CLT service continues to perform well, along with G4, that we'll be seeing even more service at FWA this year. Who knows - maybe we'll break the 700,000 pax mark in 2015.
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FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:15 am

FWA finally posted minutes for past board meetings. Here's a few things that I found interesting:

-During the first month of service, CLT outperformed PHL, though both performed well for new routes. I could see AA/US adding a second CLT flight soon.
-Unlike SBN, which banned Uber from operating into the airport, FWA will allow Uber and similar ridesharing services to operate into the airport as long as the ridesharing company (not the driver) pays for a permit to operate into FWA. The FWACAA will price the permits the same as taxi permits, and one permit will cover all cars used by the ridesharing company. Uber will be launching in Fort Wayne very soon; no word on if Lyft will enter Fort Wayne.
-As I anticipated, the new FBO for FWA will be Sweet Aviation instead of Atlantic Aviation once the new facility opens later this year. Sweet Aviation, part of the Sweetwater group of companies headed by Chuck Surack, has been the FBO at FWA's sister airport SMD (Smith Field) for several years now. The old Atlantic site will then be reserved for an expansion of the FWA terminal; no news on that front yet. Sweet Aviation will also take over Atlantic's hangar space, which is on the west side of the airport close to the new FBO building.
-FWA is almost done phasing out the terminal's revolving doors in favor of sliding doors.
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Indy
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Sat Feb 07, 2015 4:49 pm

So who will be the next addition to IND?

"Rodriguez said airport officials are in talks with fellow low-cost carriers Spirit Airlines, JetBlue and Virgin America, and he’ll have good news to announce soon."

http://www.ibj.com/articles/51689-al...uld-spark-a-leisure-travel-revival
Indy = Indianapolis and not Independence Air
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Sat Feb 07, 2015 5:24 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 22):

So who will be the next addition to IND?

"Rodriguez said airport officials are in talks with fellow low-cost carriers Spirit Airlines, JetBlue and Virgin America, and he’ll have good news to announce soon."

I'd say NK is the most likely to come to IND. Around the time before they announced CLE, they hinted at IND as well. B6 would be my second guess, to BOS. VX is a long shot, especially with UA now flying IND-SFO and three airlines on IND-LAX. (Speaking of IND, and as an Ivy Tech alum, was anyone able to catch Air Force One when the POTUS visited Ivy Tech's Indianapolis campus to pitch his community college plan?)

FWA has hinted at where they want to go next as well. The main focus right now is growing the existing services, including the PHL and CLT flights that are exceeding expectations. In particular, PHL was anticipated for a 45% LF the first year in the SCASD application, but is running in the high 60s for both daily flights, and CLT (which was a bonus) is achieving high-70s LFs. (However, one of the two Saturday PHL flights may be dropped.) Expect FWA-ATL and FWA-DFW to go to larger jets, though FWA-DTW and FWA-MSP will stay CR2 for some time to come because of the OO MX base. And with how FWA-CLT is doing, I could see a second flight.

As for new destinations at FWA, the only goal that's on the radar screen this year is convincing G4 to resume FWA-LAS. I wouldn't expect UA to start FWA-EWR or FWA-IAD until 2016 at the earliest, after PHL has proven itself for over a year for AA.
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freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Sat Feb 07, 2015 9:14 pm

SBN's Dec. Traffic was up over last year. 2014 total traffic was down with the loss of Frontier but the addition of the Newark flight on UA has started to return positive numbers. What's next maybe larger two-class jets on Delta. Maybe service to DFW on AA and a possibility of resumption of SBN-DEN on UA or the start of SBN-IAH on UA. UA ran a SBN-DEN flight over the Thanksgiving holidays and maybe they will give it a try after all 21,000 passengers flying SBN-DEN on F9 was nothing too laugh about. I don't think larger jets will be used on the EWR flight as they are still trying to build the traffic. LF's are getting better though and most of the prime business day flights are full.
 
crazytoaster
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Sun Feb 08, 2015 2:21 pm

Quoting Indy (Reply 22):

So who will be the next addition to IND?

"Rodriguez said airport officials are in talks with fellow low-cost carriers Spirit Airlines, JetBlue and Virgin America, and he’ll have good news to announce soon."

http://www.ibj.com/articles/51689-al...uld-spark-a-leisure-travel-revival

Says they are in talks, hopefully something comes out of it.

Spirit or JetBlue to FLL would probably make the most sense, least amount of competition and a lot of connecting opportunities for both. But with DL and WN now on IND-BOS with both 2x daily service I am doubtful on JetBlue

My guess NK with IND to FLL, DFW, IAH, MCO, and LAS if they do announce anyhting...
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
jetskipper
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:59 am

UA will be adding EVV as a city starting June 4th with three flights a day to ORD flown by an E-145. Great news for EVV. This will also be the Star Alliances entrance into the EVV market.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:13 am

Quoting jetskipper (Reply 26):
UA will be adding EVV as a city starting June 4th with three flights a day to ORD flown by an E-145. Great news for EVV. This will also be the Star Alliances entrance into the EVV market.

Unless SBN manages to announce the return of AA before UA starts EVV, this will also leave SBN as the only scheduled passenger airport in Indiana without service from all three alliances.

Congratulations to EVV - that airport is finally showing some action between DL mainline, AA adding CLT, and now UA to ORD. Maybe they can finally lure G4 in next - and it could even be on its own merit, without replacing OWB. I mean, G4 serves three airports in central Illinois that are basically next to each other.
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FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Wed Feb 11, 2015 11:55 pm

The number of flights this spring break (late February through the end of March) at FWA is scheduled to increase 27% over last year. I'm not sure how this translates into seats, but I do know that at least four of those flights that brought a boost (2x PHL, 1x CLT, 1x ATL) are on CR2s, which means at least 200 more seats per weekday in and out of FWA this March compared to last, and that's not counting the seasonal increases from G4 on both MD-80s and A32x that are bigger this year as well.

While this increased volume is a good thing for FWA and the FWACAA, as they (through landing fees, airline usage fees, and PFCs) and many of FWA's non-airline tenants (Republic Parking System, First Class Concessions) will benefit from the extra revenue, this may be a bad thing for travelers used to the lighter crowds of past years. Fortunately, the FWACAA has made a list of tips for spring break travel. Nothing that seasoned a.netters don't know, obviously, but for someone that is used to the FWA of spring breaks past or one choosing FWA for the first time in a while - or ever, it's a great resource.
http://fwairport.com/news/airport-tr...reak-season-airport-authority-issu
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freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Thu Feb 12, 2015 12:28 am

Allegiant will fly every day except Tuesday on SBN-SFB and SBN-PIE during Spring Break. Maybe next year they will throw SBn-CUN and SBN-CZM into the mix.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:01 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 29):
Allegiant will fly every day except Tuesday on SBN-SFB and SBN-PIE during Spring Break.

Out of FWA, SFB will between 4-5x/week (up from 3-4x/week last year), PIE and PGD will be 4x/week (unchanged for PIE, up from 3 to 4 per week for PGD), and AZA will be 2x/week (unchanged).

It doesn't look like G4's new IND service has crimped their FWA spring break schedule one bit. I see the FWA station retaining and maybe even growing its share of pax in the market and the new IND service focused on the Indianapolis metro (including Lafayette, Terre Haute, and Bloomington, none of which have scheduled commercial service), hurting WN's Indy metro numbers a lot more than FWA's. G4 tends to price service similarly between airports - if one from Fort Wayne can get a $64 G4 fare to SFB or PGD from their choice of FWA or IND on similar dates, they'll choose FWA. Even with low gas prices, they'd waste a lot more money on gas, pay more for parking, and have to endure Indy traffic by choosing IND.

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 29):
Maybe next year they will throw SBn-CUN and SBN-CZM into the mix.

I have a feeling that as soon as an FIS is added at FWA when they expand the terminal (and with the rapidly increasing traffic, they'll need to soon), we could see FWA-CUN from G4 as well. (Not sure about CZM, but the sizable African-American population here could make FWA-MBJ a real possibility as well.) And I wouldn't be surprised if G4 is talking with the FWACAA about this as I speak - much like at SBN, the two sides have a very positive relationship.

FWA already has a Customs facility, but it can't be used for anything but cargo or bizjets because of the lack of an FIS. Until the terminal is expanded with FIS, I think that LAS is the only new route we'll see from G4 from FWA for the time being.
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freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Thu Feb 12, 2015 2:46 am

SBN is already moving talks with the South Shore Railroad to move their platform to the west side of the airport. The railroad is already planning to add Express Service to downtown Chicago with only two stops. If and when they move to the west side of the terminal this will reduce travel time on this Express route to 90 minutes. This will free up more space for the FIS which is going to be built out of the old C holding room. One thing that could be interesting since they have to build a new gate house at A9 to be walled off for international flights if they could modify the design to include two of the long apron drive jet bridges instead of one with Gate A9 and A9A. That way with a little of creative aircraft parking operate two international flights at once but I think that would be a stretch and I don't think there is room. The A9 bridge when stretched out does fit Allegiant's B757's but I think they will use their A320's for CUN flights.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:04 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 31):
SBN is already moving talks with the South Shore Railroad to move their platform to the west side of the airport. The railroad is already planning to add Express Service to downtown Chicago with only two stops. If and when they move to the west side of the terminal this will reduce travel time on this Express route to 90 minutes.

The SJCAA needs to be careful what they wish for: I could see SBN losing ORD service entirely if that happens, as it would take just as much time to get to ORD via the South Shore and the L as it would via air today. I don't think they'll lose UA, as SBN-EWR seems to be doing good and I could see them adding SBN-IAH in the near future. I do think, though, that the chance of Eagle bringing back SBN-ORD is now even worse than it was before.

There's also talk of a rail link once again between Fort Wayne and Chicago, and work is moving ahead. But unlike SBN, the rail station would be in downtown Fort Wayne (not at FWA) and the trip to Union Station in Chicago would take about 2.5 hours with about five or six stops, so FWA-ORD would still be feasible. If it happens and is priced right, I could see US 30 having a lot fewer passenger cars (but it would still be a key route for semis) and Fort Wayne to Chicago becoming a long-distance commute.
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freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:18 pm

SBN would not loose SBN-ORD service irregardless of the South Shore. THe ORD flights just don't go to odd. All of them are one-stoppers all over the midwest. They go to cities like BNA, DSM, and OMA. THey even go east to CVG, SDF and PIT. The chance of Eagle coming back is still very good.
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Thu Feb 12, 2015 10:35 pm

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 33):
SBN would not loose SBN-ORD service irregardless of the South Shore. THe ORD flights just don't go to odd. All of them are one-stoppers all over the midwest. They go to cities like BNA, DSM, and OMA. THey even go east to CVG, SDF and PIT.

I know that there is almost no O&D on SBN-ORD. There's almost none on FWA-ORD as well, and there are people who backtrack on that route, too (though to a lesser extent than before now that there's nonstop FWA-PHL).

I'm just saying that one will be able to get from ORD to their final destination a lot faster without flying the SBN-ORD leg once the express trains are added on the South Shore. Given what has been said about the reliability on SBN-ORD as of late, I could see people just taking the South Shore into Chicago and then catching the Blue Line into ORD.

On a related note, I find it interesting that Toledo has similar demographics and a slightly larger MSA when compared to Fort Wayne. So in theory, TOL should have about the same amount of pax, if not more, than FWA. But FWA saw about 4x the pax of TOL last year, though both airports saw sizable increases. The struggles of TOL have been well-reported here on a.net, and I wonder what other Hoosiers (and other people period) think about this unusual discrepancy. Is access from Toledo to DTW too easy relative to Fort Wayne to IND? Is airport management a factor? Do airlines play a big role?
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crazytoaster
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Thu Feb 12, 2015 11:51 pm

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 34):
On a related note, I find it interesting that Toledo has similar demographics and a slightly larger MSA when compared to Fort Wayne. So in theory, TOL should have about the same amount of pax, if not more, than FWA. But FWA saw about 4x the pax of TOL last year, though both airports saw sizable increases. The struggles of TOL have been well-reported here on a.net, and I wonder what other Hoosiers (and other people period) think about this unusual discrepancy. Is access from Toledo to DTW too easy relative to Fort Wayne to IND? Is airport management a factor? Do airlines play a big role?

Nearly all of the Toledo area is within an hour drive of DTW, so you are correct it is really easy access. There is a lot of commuting back and forth across the border. I had family in Bowling Green, OH and they pretty much just used DTW. FWA is fortunate enough to be far enough away from other cities and their airports.
DEN homebase. Frequent traveler to IND and RNO.
 
stlgph
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:21 am

the love for Indianapolis continues with Southwest adding Dallas Love to Indy. very interesting the interest in Indianapolis that has come from Southwest in the past year.
it's not too late yet but i'm surprised Allegiant didn't jump on Indy to Myrtle Beach this summer.
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
FWAERJ
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Fri Feb 13, 2015 2:54 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 36):
the love for Indianapolis continues with Southwest adding Dallas Love to Indy. very interesting the interest in Indianapolis that has come from Southwest in the past year.

Not surprising at all, actually.

Back when WN expressed interest in the two DAL gates that AA had to divest as a result of the US merger (these gates eventually went to VX), IND was mentioned as a city that would have received service if WN received the AA gates. Now that WN took over two gates at DAL from UA, they could finally add IND and other cities that they wanted to add when AA had to divest the DAL gates.

And let's not forget that WN is the number one carrier at IND now that the FL merger is complete. DL is #2, and AA (when you factor in US) is #3.
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stlgph
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Fri Feb 13, 2015 4:26 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 37):

I'm glad you aren't surprised, but I sure am, given their history in Indianapolis.

And Southwest is number in terms of .....???
if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
 
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atypical
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Fri Feb 13, 2015 5:59 am

Quoting FWAERJ (Reply 34):
I'm just saying that one will be able to get from ORD to their final destination a lot faster without flying the SBN-ORD leg once the express trains are added on the South Shore. Given what has been said about the reliability on SBN-ORD as of late, I could see people just taking the South Shore into Chicago and then catching the Blue Line into ORD.


I have done that and even with just carry on luggage it is a long trip and no fun (I routed that way to do some things in Chicago, like go to the Berghoff, yum  ) I would not even think about trying with checked luggage. Millennium to the El is a decent hike and nothing most people would want to make particularly in the Winter (unless the roller bag came with a sail). Coach USA is better because it has less hassle and really does not take much longer. I can't even see all express trains from South Bend to Chicago making any difference to fliers. Just my opinion though.
 
bjorn14
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:28 am

Quoting freakyrat (Reply 31):
to add Express Service to downtown Chicago with only two stops

Do you know what those other two stops are going to be?
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
freakyrat
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RE: Indiana Aviation: Part MD-12

Fri Feb 13, 2015 1:52 pm

Quoting bjorn14 Reply40
"Do you know what those other two stops are going to be?"

The 6:00 AM South Shore train will run Express starting March16th. It will make 2 stops in Northwest Indiana at Dune Park and East Chicago. The other three stops are in Chicago.

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