Someone83
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:00 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 43):
SK's ARN-EWR would then be an evening flight instead of the current morning flight.

If you move the current ARN-EWR/ORD flights this will have an impact on the available connections, on both ends. It may be OK to do so, but is has to be taken into consideration
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:24 pm

Quoting ThReaTeN (Reply 48):
Denmark has traditionally been far more successful in the areas of shipping and commerce, something that probably still to a great extent fuels international air travel between Copenhagen and other commercial/shipping centers such as Hong Kong.

You are absolutely right - and I think that shipping in particular is the reason behind CPH-HKG O&D traffic is bigger than ARN-HKG. It's solid business demand year-round, of both normal business traffic, executives, station personnel as well as crew, plus what it all yields of VFR traffic. It's demand across all three cabin classes. And let's not forget that the former Danish Princess, now Countess, Alexandra, who has two children with Prince Joachim, is from Hong Kong; lots of royal VFR traffic  
Quoting ThReaTeN (Reply 48):
Many Swedish companies such as Volvo and SKF are barely at all even present in the Stockholm area but have their base in Gothenburg, and employees and executives travelling in business for those companies can just as well connect through CPH as through ARN (in fact, though I haven't checked, I think Copenhagen is actually closer to Gothenburg than Stockholm

Exactly - Volvo, SKF, Stena and other industrial giants are based around Gothenburg, and to them, CPH is at least as good a choice as ARN, if not better. SAS flies 6 x daily to CPH; alternatively, there are direct trains from Gothenburg Central Station to Copenhagen Airport every hour (takes about 3 hours)

Quoting ThReaTeN (Reply 48):
On the question of whether Finnair A350s will outshine SAS A330s - I wonder if ARN-HKG might become one of the routes where SAS puts the A350 into service first once they start taking deliveries in 2018 (IIRC)? While a brand new A330-300HGW (hey! it's got a center-line tank... and it's actually activated!!) is exciting and all (*cough*) it's hard to compete with the A350 on sex appeal.

Oh yes  



Kevin777  

[Edited 2014-12-23 04:25:47]
"I was waiting for you at DFW, but you must have been in LUV" CPH-HAM-CPH CR9
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:45 pm

Quoting someone83 (Reply 50):
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 43):SK's ARN-EWR would then be an evening flight instead of the current morning flight.
If you move the current ARN-EWR/ORD flights this will have an impact on the available connections, on both ends. It may be OK to do so, but is has to be taken into consideration

It would - and in particular, a late arrival into EWR would probably mean losing quite a few connections onwards with UA. The other way around it would be less of a problem. An in general, a mid-day departure to the US is preferable to an evening departure; also in order for the return to arrive in the morning back in Europe. It must be like this since all SK's EWR flights depart from OSL/ARN/CPH in the morning/noon, and only recently have they added a second frequency in the evening from CPH on some days (but looks like it's gone again now until summer 15'?). So moving ARN-EWR to an evening flight is probably not ideal on its own. Yet if they want to stick with the current ARN-EWR schedule, it matches very poorly with ARN-HKG (in a 48-hour window): Coming back from EWR early in the morning, no matter how fast you get the a/c cleaned and ready again, it won't be able to make it for Hong Kong until after midnight (and even if they could, this flight would be hopeless for connections from Scandinavia/Europe). I'm not sure about arriving in HKG in the middle of the night, e.g. at 3 a.m. (it's common for M.E. and India routes), but it surely isn't attractive, if it's at all legal (don't know about rules for HKG here). Anyway, departing for HKG at, say, 1.30 p.m., and you'd be in HKG at 5.50 a.m. But then you cannot be ready for a noon departure to EWR.

It will be interesting to see how it is figured out operationally - perhaps there is a "golden" solution somewhere (e.g. planes going CPH-EWR-ARN-ORD-ARN-HKG-ARN-EWR-CPH and somehow that makes time enough and makes for a nice schedule for all routes), but one thing I certainly don't hope that they turn to doing regular ferry flights to/from CPH in order for them to do start up ARN-HKG (unless of course you can book them, and then you could fly widebodies CPH-ARN   )

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RedChili
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:49 pm

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 43):
ARN-HKG 15:30-07:50
HKG-ARN 10:00-15:20
ARN-EWR 18:05-21.00
EWR-ARN 23:20-13.05

SK's ARN-EWR would then be an evening flight instead of the current morning flight.

As others have pointed out, a major problem would be connections onward from EWR.

Plus, they would have almost no time at all to catch up with delays.

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 46):
But compared to CPH and OSL, ARN is definitely far away I totally agree. Old buldings, many of them in need for heavy maintenance or replacement; old hardware (e.g. baggage belts etc.), and then the whole mess of what, 5-7 terminals or so, with many - to the customer at least - oddities as to which Airline flies from which terminal to which destinations (I don't want to start up yet another SE/NO/DK forum-war here at all, but I think even most supporters of Stockholm as the "right" centre of Scandinavia would agree, that as an airport, ARN is inferior to OSL and CPH)

There's only four terminals at ARN.

In addition, all SAS international flights use Terminal 5, which means that the vast majority of transfers will be within that single terminal. All international Star Alliance fligths are located in that same terminal.

The HKG flight will depart from the F pier, and I think it's 12 or 13 years old. Transfer passengers won't need to worry about your so-called old baggage belts.

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 49):
I was in ARN in November, and I looked at a map of the airport with listings of which airline flies from which terminals - not too bad with four or five terminals (but a bit much for an airport the size of ARN IMO), but then came several exceptions, e.g. "Airline XX flies from T2 except for destination ZZZ which is operated from T4".

I think you've got things mixed up. There are two international and two domestic terminals. The only airlines that are split are airlines that operate both international and domestic, i.e. SAS and Norwegian have domestic flights from T4 and international flights from T5, NextJet has domestic flights from T3 and international from T5.

All other airlines are located in a single terminal. All Star Alliance airlines are in T5. Most of Oneworld and Skyteam are in T2, except QR, IB, SU and DL, which are in T5. No airline is split between T2 and T4.
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:08 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 53):
Most of Oneworld and Skyteam are in T2, except QR, IB, SU and DL, which are in T5

Actually it is I2, but IB will do  
And also VY is is T5. IAG would like them both in T2, but Swedavia are not interested. Strange as there are spare gates in T2 at those times (most of the time actually)
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:09 am

Will the A330 equipment have full-flat beds or angled flat in J?
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:17 am

Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 46):
But compared to CPH and OSL, ARN is definitely far away I totally agree. Old buldings, many of them in need for heavy maintenance or replacement; old hardware (e.g. baggage belts etc.), and then the whole mess of what, 5-7 terminals or so, with many - to the customer at least - oddities as to which Airline flies from which terminal to which destinations (I don't want to start up yet another SE/NO/DK forum-war here at all, but I think even most supporters of Stockholm as the "right" centre of Scandinavia would agree, that as an airport, ARN is inferior to OSL and CPH)
Quoting sailas (Reply 47):
Sure, but you're missing the point, FInland is no.1 in technology companies in the north, and where do we make our business?
I'm sure it will be tough for both SK and AY but my bets on the blue and white.
Quoting Kevin777 (Reply 49):
The data comes from GDS bookings ARN-HKG versus CPH-HKG. 20 % more of the latter. Granted, it may not account for everything, but would still give a good indication. As for Danes going a lot to Hong Kong, perhaps they do, but also be reminded that 1/5 or so of the Swedish population has CPH as their (major) home airport.

There is so much confusion and national sentiment here its not even funny.

I agree with the poster who says that ARN is the worst airport of the three cities. By far the worst airport and that the different terminals, minor areas of use makes ARN a truly poor European gateway.

But the rest Finland is the technological centre of the north, Denmark has more passengers to China/Hongkong and 20% of Swedens population has CPH as its airport.
Come on.
be realistic non of those statements is close to reality.
Stockholm as a business region is not just the technological centre of the north but one of the more major centres in Europe.
While a few of Swedens export MNC have their HQ outside Stockholm 75% doesn't. Stockholm is home to a clear majority of the Nordics major corporate HQ and is the financial centre home to all stockexchanges in the Nordics plus the Baltics (minus Oslo) and home to the investment banks, hedgefunds etc.
In GOT, Volvo has a Star Alliance deal. But Volvo tries to avoid CPH. FRA is very happy about that.
Sweden sends more citizens to China than Norway and Denmark combined.

And no despite what CPH marketing brochures says 20% of Swedens population does not have CPH as its home airport. Unfortunately for CPH 20% of Swedens population doesn't live in Scania province and even those in the north and east of that province have other airports they may use. Scania has 1.2 million inhabitants, even if we say that all of those use CPH for international flights thats not even 14%. However for domestic flights they have their own airports, with feeder flights to STO, rather frequent such. The choice of going to CPH requires a trainride or carride between 20 minutes to 2.5 hours. Those in MMX and the west coast probably use CPH as their default international airport.

Opening HongKong from ARN is not good for several reasons.
First it reduces the only hub SK has, the CPH hub.
Second SK serves alot less destinations from ARN than CPH. This reduces the ability to feed the route.
Third frequency to ARN on SK is much less than frequency to CPH.

To choose ARN for the HongKong route further shows how weak the CPH hub is. SK needs one hub, spreading the airline thin, having some routes from ARN, some from CPH is madness.
For SK suuceed they need a strong hub and they have bet on CPH. Yet they dont see enough potential to North Asia from CPH. So instead they choose ARN an airport they have little feed to compared to CPH and where secondary cities virtually arent serced at all. Yet ARN is a better choice to HongKong/China. Thats scary. SK needs CPH to be a strong market with substantial O/D to be a successful carrier. SK knows this but they have no choice because the market, SK:s market to HK and China, is so clearly primarily Swedish originating that opening it from CPH just isnt viable if the airline want decent O/D traffic. I still think that SK is doing a mistake here, this route should have been launched from CPH despite it being a much worse O/D market. CPH need to be the only hub for SK, they cant spread themselves thin.
Sure starting the flight out of CPH means they loose their main Scandinavian market, Sweden. But thats already happened, Swedes and Norwegians have voted with their feet and are not flying internationally out of CPH at the levels that CPH need for it to be a profitable Scandinavian hub. SO stop caring about the swedes and Norwegians and cater a hub to perceived demand from Denmark and siphon traffic from the neighbouring countries. Build a hub that cater to the danes and to Scania province. Spreading the hub will weaken SK and reduce the companies chance to compete.

Better yet, transfer the CPH hub to the main Scandinavian market ARN, maximise O/D, but thats politically impossible so it wont happen. But it would have created a much more financially viable SK.
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Someone83
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:40 am

Quoting DolphinAir747 (Reply 55):

Will the A330 equipment have full-flat beds or angled flat in J?

All 330s will have their cabin refurbished by next summer, including lie flat i C. Alle new 330s will be deliveried with the new cabin
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:55 am

Quoting Asiaflyer (Reply 45):
Sounds like the danish SAS maffias still claims that CPH is bigger, but now at least they start to make senseful decisions. Many lost years of poor danish management has to be take back.

A) Please elaborate on the 'Danish mafia' angle, it sounds intriguing!
B) CPH is the biggest airport in Scandinavia, and has the largest number of booking (by a fair margin) to HKG
C) There has been one Danish CEO, who held the reins from 2000 to 2005. Before and after it has been Swedish CEO's only. SAS has been in a process of 'Swedification' over the last 10 years; these days there's one Norwegian and one Dane on the board of SAS, the rest are Swedish. Lot of good that has done, eh?

SAS chose ARN for this route in order to compete with HEL, and that's it. Their line of thinking is that Swedish passengers would rather fly North via ARN, than South via CPH, when going to the Far East, which is a very sensible position to take. In fact, it opens the distinct possibility SAS might consider moving all their Far East production to ARN, which in some ways makes sense too - mainly if you gear your production towards the Swedish market.

There are historic, operational and economic reasons why SAS' main hub is CPH. The nationalistic idiocy so often spread on these pages is, by and large, driven by figments of an overtly conspiratorial imagination, and a not insignificant amount of plain old jealousy.
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Maersk737
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Wed Dec 24, 2014 12:15 pm

Danish CPH-mafia or not.... It's nice to see a new SAS longhaul destination  

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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Wed Dec 24, 2014 4:44 pm

@B777LRF. You re supposed to be nice around Christmas.  
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Wed Dec 24, 2014 7:00 pm

Quoting SKAirbus (Reply 35):
Quoting SASDC8 (Reply 13):And out of ARN there should be no problem with space at their long haul pier, as it is pretty much deserted all day long

It's true, Pier F is very empty most of the time apart from being used as an overflow for the other piers during busy times and for long haul flights.

This is news. If you say that pier F is empty most of the time you are completely wrong. In the mornings it is filled up and most of the day it is busy. And for deserted all day... well well seems it was long time ago you visited ARN  
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:38 am

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 58):
SAS chose ARN for this route in order to compete with HEL, and that's it. Their line of thinking is that Swedish passengers would rather fly North via ARN, than South via CPH, when going to the Far East, which is a very sensible position to take. In fact, it opens the distinct possibility SAS might consider moving all their Far East production to ARN, which in some ways makes sense too - mainly if you gear your production towards the Swedish market.

I wonder if the fact that ARN only has one runway longer than 3000 meters will have any bearing on this decision (or rather has had any significance in the decision to concentrate long-haul to CPH). I'm not even sure that the runway situation at ARN has any real impact on capacity (there have been recent court cases over ARN concerning environmental and noise restrictions, which may possibly have been more of a limiting facotr), but I wanted to throw that out here anyway.
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Thu Dec 25, 2014 12:56 pm

ARN has two runways around 8000ft and one at 10000ft. Every couple of years the long runway is closed in July for maintenance. During this time Thai has continued operation on the shorter runway to BKK which is about the same distance from ARN as HKG. This with a B744, when they had to operate with very little freight. At the same time Malaysian had to substitute their B744 with a B777 as the extra 700 miles to KUL was too much.
I am no performance expert, but with today's twins there is no real problem off 8000ft runway at ARN to Asia.
 
RedChili
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Thu Dec 25, 2014 7:36 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 54):
Actually it is I2, but IB will do
And also VY is is

You're correct, of course. I also forgot that RO is a Skyteam airline operating from T5.

Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 56):
Opening HongKong from ARN is not good for several reasons.
First it reduces the only hub SK has, the CPH hub.
Second SK serves alot less destinations from ARN than CPH. This reduces the ability to feed the route.
Third frequency to ARN on SK is much less than frequency to CPH.
Quoting MillwallSean (Reply 56):
To choose ARN for the HongKong route further shows how weak the CPH hub is. SK needs one hub, spreading the airline thin, having some routes from ARN, some from CPH is madness.

SAS already has three hubs, not one. While it is true that CPH today is a much stronger hub than the other two, the question remains if SAS wants to keep it that way for the future. Adding a HKG flight to the CPH hub would strengthen that hub, but adding it to ARN will strengthen that hub instead. The question is which hub needs it the most.

But I would add that SAS has lost a lot of market share for long-haul flying out of Norway and Sweden for the past years. And their one-hub strategy is one of the reasons for that. Once upon a time, we as Norwegians felt that Scandinavia is "our" airline, and we were perfectly happy to fly via CPH on "our" airline anywhere in the world. Today, that sentiment does not exist anymore, and we're ready to drop SAS in favor of Emirates, Qatar, Finnair, or Norwegian. If SAS wants to regain some of that they have lost in long-haul from Norway and Sweden, they will have to start more long-haul flights out of ARN and OSL.

Quoting Navigator (Reply 61):
This is news. If you say that pier F is empty most of the time you are completely wrong. In the mornings it is filled up and most of the day it is busy. And for deserted all day... well well seems it was long time ago you visited ARN

The truth is somewhere in between. It's usually quite busy in the morning, but there are plenty of available gates in the afternoon and evening. After CA912 has departed for PEK (at 18:20 in the winter), there are usually only two or three more departures from F on that day.

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 63):
At the same time Malaysian had to substitute their B744 with a B777 as the extra 700 miles to KUL was too much.

MH actually had a few flights operating ARN-AMS-KUL on the 744 when 01L/19R was closed.
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Tristarsteve
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:08 pm

Quoting RedChili (Reply 64):
MH actually had a few flights operating ARN-AMS-KUL on the 744 when 01L/19R was closed.

Yes but that was a mistake!. I am sure they had not read the NOTAM as the reroute via AMS was at about 5 days notice!
 
okay
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Fri Dec 26, 2014 9:10 am

Good to see SK trying to get their act together. It certainly is not an easy task for them to organize their LH ops. Three nations all yelling murder when a route is opened from one of the Scandi Capitals. CPH being the major one but still so very small compared to others in close vicinity. ARN being just that little bit too far from making Asia ops in 24h time frame. OSL then again being no use to them, from business point of view.

Will SK get any help feeding the flights through code share or JV?

A question that springs to mind in regards to choosing ARN for this route, why ARN when SK doesn't even get the benefit of being able to operate this route in 24h time frame? Would it not then be easier to have the route originating from CPH, their LH hub? What is the added value of operating this route from ARN?

[Edited 2014-12-26 01:23:10]
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Fri Dec 26, 2014 1:42 pm

This time okay it seems like only the Danes are yelling "murder". Wonder why? I suspect both the Swedes and the Norwegians understand that it is no need to cross the river to fill the bucket with water. ARN is the closest of the three Scandinavian capital hubs to all Eastern Asian destination - between 30 and 40 minutes less flying time each way. In fact all the feed, except for a few Northern Swedish airports, have a flight in the right direction towards the final destination. It is not so for flights to Eastern Asia leaving CPH since this airport is placed at the South West rim of Scandinavia. Although OSL is 1.4 degree further to the west than CPH, not many knows OSL is 106 km closer (great circle distance) to HKG than CPH.
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Fri Dec 26, 2014 7:53 pm

Quoting ThReaTeN (Reply 48):
While a brand new A330-300HGW (hey! it's got a center-line tank... and it's actually activated!!) is exciting and all (*cough*) it's hard to compete with the A350 on sex appeal.

Sex appeal? Are you on the wrong site, or perhaps just enjoying too much Christmas cheer?

In late 2011 I worked on a survey, which was part one of three (the other two have not been completed as model recognition was so low).

Respondent data included sex, age, FF, domicile, and if they had flown specific aircraft. Client was keen to reach LH passengers (it wasn't LH), but was unsuccessful. Undertaken at four airports. Used cards, with colour, branding and model information deleted (airline and manufacturer).

Most accurately identified aircraft were (in order), Concorde, 747 and 380. Models 737, 767 and 777 were used interchangeably for 320 and 330, and vice versa.
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Sat Dec 27, 2014 12:24 am

Quoting okay (Reply 66):

1. Otherwise pax that flies from ARN will fly with EK, QR, TG, DY or AY instead of with SK.

2. Flying south from ARN to CPH and then to HKG would mean that the first leg will
be flown twice due to that the ideal route from CPH to HKG (and also PEK & NRT)
goes just east of Stockholm.
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JU068
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Sat Dec 27, 2014 8:26 am

The most logical competitors would be Finnair and Aeroflot, however, how is the SAS' onboard product when compared to these two?
I did not hear good things about their intra-European flights.
 
okay
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Sat Dec 27, 2014 10:29 am

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 69):
1. Otherwise pax that flies from ARN will fly with EK, QR, TG, DY or AY instead of with SK.

Isn't it the customer who chooses which airline he flies, not the airline? It might be a direct flight, but pax are rather price sensitive. SK can expect fierce competition from the above mentioned airlines. If they are going into the competition without code sharing/JV, it wont be an easy task for SK.
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Sat Dec 27, 2014 1:38 pm

Surprised no-one has suggested the following routing yet:

CPH-ARN-HKG..... after all the Scandinavian rivalry in this thread..... ..this.must be the perfect solution.


The best of both worlds for CPH and ARN !!!!



The CPH market maintains its one-stop service, but offers it on-line SK.......

while ARN gains the non-stop.
 
ATLFlyer323
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Sat Dec 27, 2014 3:31 pm

Quoting JU068 (Reply 70):
The most logical competitors would be Finnair and Aeroflot, however, how is the SAS' onboard product when compared to these two?

While I have never flown Finnair nor Aeroflot I just got off a SAS long haul, and it was not that impressive. Same as last time I flew SAS LH. Their food was good for economy, but that was about it. Seats were old and worn and the IFE was pretty dated. That being said they do have a plan for a total overhaul of all their cabins that should be started soon I believe. I bet one of our Scandinavian members has more info on that than me.

Will the new A330's be operating this route? If so have they worked out the crew rest issue with Swedish F/A's or will Danish/Norwegian F/A's be working the flight?

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okay
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Sat Dec 27, 2014 5:05 pm

Quoting ATLFlyer323 (Reply 73):
Quoting factsonly (Reply 72):
CPH-ARN-HKG..... after all the Scandinavian rivalry in this thread..... ..this.must be the perfect solution.

That would be a nightmare crewing wise, IMO. They would need four crews, one for CPH-ARN, one for ARN-HKG, one for HKG-ARN and one for ARN-CPH. This is how we did MAN-LGW-MLE on BY, at least. This was due to working hour restrictions for crews.
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Sat Dec 27, 2014 6:02 pm

Sep 2015 is still pretty far away... I think that we might see more flights being added to SK's ARN network before they start this flight.

Let's say that SK decides to start ARN-SFO or IAD (UA hubs) alongside ARN-HKG, would it be possible to do ARN-HKG-ARN-SFO-ARN five times a week with one airframe? Or is that out of the question?
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Sat Dec 27, 2014 11:38 pm

factsonly, why fly a long distance Airbus on a short haul flight? On a normal weekday there are 13 daily flights CPH-ARN, and all these flights are flown with B737NG/A32X that are more fuel efficient on a short one hour flight than the lower dencity A333/A343. In addition to this there is the inside/outside Schengen question - Schengen exit at CPH means no other passengers than the ones to HKG or other non-Schengen countries or if it's a Schengen flight the transit at ARN will include a full exit Schengen procedure for passengers, crew and aircraft. Either way such a flight would mean money lost for SAS.
 
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RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:42 am

Quoting LN-KGL (Reply 76):

factsonly, why fly a long distance Airbus on a short haul flight? On a normal weekday there are 13 daily flights CPH-ARN, and all these flights are flown with B737NG/A32X that are more fuel efficient on a short one hour flight than the lower dencity A333/A343. In addition to this there is the inside/outside Schengen question - Schengen exit at CPH means no other passengers than the ones to HKG or other non-Schengen countries or if it's a Schengen flight the transit at ARN will include a full exit Schengen procedure for passengers, crew and aircraft. Either way such a flight would mean money lost for SAS.

1. SAS should utilize their longhaul equipment as efficient as possible not least in light of not having the biggest fleet og LH aircraft.
2. Servicing a LH aircraft on the ground in ARN would probably take longer than for passengers to make a quick connection. Minimum connection time in ARN for passengers arriving from schengen->intercontinental is 40 mins.

Even though this new SK route to HKG originates from ARN, it probably still allows for very short travel time in total from CPH. I do hope the route will be succesful, but I still have the following concerns (hoping they will be unwarranted):
1) Fares to HKG (at least out of CPH) can be found extremely cheap, which could lead to a very poor yield
2) SK has less routes feeding passengers into ARN than into CPH
3) SK tried flights to Asia before from ARN - routes to PEK and BKK failed, while CPH sustained (BKK until recently).
4) SK's product in economy is just awful. Once

I'm hoping though that SK will attract a good number of high yielding pax as well as filling the belly with cargo. Will be interesting to see the schedule once it is loaded in the booking systems.
Future flights: CPH-BOS; CPH-SVG; CPH-PVG-HKG-MNL-DVO; CPH-CDG; CPH-NRT; CPH-MIA; CPH-PVG
 
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MillwallSean
Posts: 945
Joined: Tue Apr 08, 2008 3:07 pm

RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:49 am

Quoting okay (Reply 71):
Isn't it the customer who chooses which airline he flies, not the airline? It might be a direct flight, but pax are rather price sensitive. SK can expect fierce competition from the above mentioned airlines. If they are going into the competition without code sharing/JV, it wont be an easy task for SK.

To BKK the middle eastern three are very competitive. To HongKong not so much, the detour is to large and the middle eastern have extremely few corporate contracts in Scandinavia. As such the Chinese airlines (will those rumours materialise) are bigger competitors.

AY though is a formidable competitor in Scandinavia and they have a well known product, well known network and an aggressive sales department. Selling HongKong on SK is not that easy when AY sells 15 Asian destinations via a Swedish speaking HEL hub. AY also tends to be extremely competitive on price.

Quoting JU068 (Reply 70):
The most logical competitors would be AY and SU, however, how is the SK onboard product when compared to these two?

Aeroflot is no competitor. They are Russian and while a good airline they have virtually no corporate footprint outside Russia. Aeroflot didnt have much success before Ukraine. Now I doubt they even try...
However the SK and the AY product is very Nordic. To me its improved as of late, non of this in your face stuff, just a good meal and usually a night flight to Asia, or maybe its just me that always do night-flights on AY and (the few times) SK. I assume that the new products that SK and AY will showcase with their new longhaul planes will focus more on Premium economy as well.
No One Likes Us - We Dont Care.
 
arn777
Posts: 189
Joined: Tue Jul 13, 2010 9:47 am

RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Sun Dec 28, 2014 7:33 pm

Quoting EBGflyer (Reply 77):
SK tried flights to Asia before from ARN - routes to PEK and BKK failed, while CPH sustained (BKK until recently).

I just want to make one thing clear; the reason for SK cutting PEK and BKK from ARN had nothing to do with market potential and yield. The only reason for cutting these routes were politics and forces in SK that worried about CPH's position as a main hub. The same goes for the OSL - EWR route. It is almost humorous hearing SK talking about expanding with new US routes from OSL in direct competition with UA and DY when they just a few years ago claimed that there was no market for a 330 service from OSL to EWR with no competition what so ever. You would think that the market between the US and Norway has risen with several hundred percent since that time but that is not the case at all.

Keep also in mind the Danish documentary about SK from last year when former SK management clearly said SK where hurting from forces only wanted to focus all activity around CPH. At one point it went so far the the Danish Aviation Authorities wanted to ban long distance flights with 2 engine planes as a step to prevent SK from buying smaller 2 engine planes to start intercontinental flights from OSL/FBU and ARN.

SK has been a victim for internal politics for a long time but it seems CEO Gustafsson (with help from DY) is able to put commercial and market demand as the business driver and not politics.
 
RedChili
Posts: 1440
Joined: Wed Jul 27, 2005 9:23 am

RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:15 am

Quoting arn777 (Reply 79):
I just want to make one thing clear; the reason for SK cutting PEK and BKK from ARN had nothing to do with market potential and yield.

I'm pretty certain that the BKK flight had low pax numbers and low yield, but that was partly caused by how SK timed the flight. While the BKK-CPH flight was a night-flight, which is the desired time for business people, BKK-ARN was a day-flight, arriving at ARN around 20:00 in the evening, with very few connections possible after that arrival. You just can't expect to make money with a long-haul flight that arrives into ARN at 20:00.
Top 10 airplanes: B737, T154, B747, IL96, T134, IL62, A320, MD80, B757, DC10
 
windshear
Posts: 2268
Joined: Tue Mar 14, 2000 4:45 pm

RE: SAS Starting ARN-HKG Sep 15

Mon Dec 29, 2014 9:57 am

SAS' long haul routes are a joke, this helps... But it should have been from CPH...

New A350/B787 is needed ASAP, I hope that will boost the routes that SAS can offer their customers

Boaz.
"If you believe breaking is possible, believe in fixing also"-Rebbe Nachman

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