QR Reveals A350-900 Seat Map

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:51 am

As discussed before, the QR A350-900 aircraft will have 36 J and 247 Y seats. Today the seat map has been released:

From http://twitter.com/winglets747/status/546965303180414976

[Edited 2014-12-22 02:00:35]

ETinCaribe · Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:04 am

So same product as the A380 business class w/ direct aisle access from each seat; pitch and seat width in-line with 380/777 products.
Wifi connection means Internet connection is also available?

gilesdavies · Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:04 am

How ironic is that, the 787 seems to be Qatar Airways new cattle truck with awful seating in economy with 16.5 inch seat width and then the A350 rocks up with 18 inch seat width in economy!

Having spoken with fellow Qatar Airways flyers and read numerous forums, the biggest gripe in economy is the seating on the 787's.

That 1.5 inches makes a big difference to even the slimmest flyers.

ba319-131 · Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:11 am

I found the QR J seat in the 366 to be very comfortable so nice to see in the 359 too, just wished there was a little more privacy, it feels too open.

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 2):
the biggest gripe in economy is the seating on the 787's.

- It seems this is a common complaint, same is said for the BA 787's with the awful 3-3-3 layout. My NH 787 flights with the 2-4-2 were quite comfortable. 787 is on the miss list now unless travelling in J or Y+

LY777 · Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:50 am

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 2):

Are you sure the seat width is only 16.5 inch?

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:51 am

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 2):
16.5 inch

Quoting LY777 (Reply 4):
Are you sure the seat width is only 16.5 inch?

The QR 787 seat width is 16.9 inch.

B777LRF · Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:57 am

Having been exposed to the QR 787 in economy, I can vouch for the seating being absolutely horrible. Not only are they very narrow, the pitch is also very tight. But the worst part is how hard the seat is - think concrete and you're not far off.

I'd advise anyone who value their sanity, comfort and humanity to stay well clear of the QR 787 in economy.

BigMac · Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:59 am

According to the Qatar Airways website the seat pitch on the 788 is 30/31" (so up to 31") and the seat width is 16.89/17.28" (so up to 17.28")...

For reference the brochure in the first post mentions that the seat pitch on the A359 is up to 32" and the seat width up to 18"...

Richard28 · Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:41 am

Quoting BigMac (Reply 7):
According to the Qatar Airways website the seat pitch on the 788 is 30/31" (so up to 31") and the seat width is 16.89/17.28" (so up to 17.28")...

For reference the brochure in the first post mentions that the seat pitch on the A359 is up to 32" and the seat width up to 18"...

From pictures for other airlines this size difference looks quite noticeable.. will be interesting to see how the A350/787 compare when cabin pictures are released.

From a recent Etihad thread, the difference between a 787 seat and an 18" seat looks very noticeable (in this case an A380) - compare the pillow placement and headrest widths:

787:

18" seat (A380):

bunumuring · Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:52 am

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 6):

I'd advise anyone who value their sanity, comfort and humanity to stay well clear of the QR 787 in economy.

I avoid Qatar at all costs for entirely different reasons... But that's a whole different thread, lol.

Anyhow, the 'lobby' or 'lounge' or whatever it is in the centre of the plane looks enticing... And very big!

Cheers,
Bunumuring.

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:18 pm

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 9):
Anyhow, the 'lobby' or 'lounge' or whatever it is in the centre of the plane looks enticing... And very big!

Here it is:

http://twitter.com/BTUK/status/547001107936186369

TheSonntag · Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:24 pm

No red "EXIT" marks, instead green exit signs. Is this standard for Airbus nowadays?

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 22, 2014 12:26 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 11):
No red "EXIT" marks, instead green exit signs. Is this standard for Airbus nowadays?

The A380s have red exit lights, not sure why the A350 uses green ones instead.

starrymarkb · Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:08 pm

I believe the 787 also has the green exit signs with some carriers

airpearl · Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:39 pm

BA has these exit signs on its A380s:

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Gary Shephard

kaitak · Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:50 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 12):
The A380s have red exit lights, not sure why the A350 uses green ones instead.

Do they not change when they are being demonstrated or in use for actual emergencies? (Kind of like arguing about whether a traffic light is red or green ... "I could have sworn it was green when I drove past it, officer"!

I noticed that QR's A359s are already showing as operating to FRA twice daily from next month. Might be worth going out of my way for!

boysteve · Mon Dec 22, 2014 6:55 pm

Quoting ba319-131 (Reply 3):
It seems this is a common complaint, same is said for the BA 787's with the awful 3-3-3 layout. My NH 787 flights with the 2-4-2 were quite comfortable. 787 is on the miss list now unless travelling in J or Y

Which is better, which is worse?

A 10 abreast B777 like EK's
A 9 abreast B789 like QR's

kmz · Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:27 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 10):

how can you place two lavs in the middle of a high gloss door two entrance area? hmmm

DTWPurserBoy · Mon Dec 22, 2014 7:29 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 12):
The A380s have red exit lights, not sure why the A350 uses green ones instead.

In many countries red denotes "stop. Do not go there" but green is a safe sign. The Japanese have done this forever--the emergency exit signs in most buildings is at floor level--smoke rises and will obscure the signs. Makes perfect sense. But there should be consistency.

COSPN · Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:39 pm

Any idea what seat plan UA may have on the A350 ? When will UA get one ?

AT · Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:43 pm

this may be a naive question but isn't there a lot of redundancy between the A350 and 787? Why would an airline get both?
It seems, at least with QR, that the A350 only holds a few more seats than the 787. Surely not enough differential to on its own warrant a new type?

seabosdca · Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:03 pm

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 16):
Which is better, which is worse?

A 10 abreast B777 like EK's
A 9 abreast B789 like QR's

Depends on the individual airline, but there *should* be a bit more room in the 9Y 787 than the 10Y 777.

ord · Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:33 pm

Electromechanical window shades are listed as a feature in business class. Are these the same as the dimmable 787 window shades?

Finn350 · Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:45 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 11):
No red "EXIT" marks, instead green exit signs. Is this standard for Airbus nowadays?

Finnair has also green exit signs in its new A321 aircraft. I suppose it is part of the airline configuration, and EU airlines probably use nowadays green signs in line with EU regulations with exit signs in general (building, tunnel etc. emergency exit signs are green here too).

[Edited 2014-12-22 13:46:29]

ek17 · Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:16 pm

Quoting ord (Reply 22):
Electromechanical window shades are listed as a feature in business class. Are these the same as the dimmable 787 window shades?

Nope, it's the ones where the shade is actually inbetween the glass and you press a button...

[Edited 2014-12-22 15:17:34]

Prost · Mon Dec 22, 2014 11:23 pm

That circular bar is a nice feature...unless you are sitting directly behind it. It might be a rather noisy area if people are congregating there all flight long.

Ruscoe · Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:40 am

Seat Plans says 16.9"
Seat Guru says 17.2"
Seat Maestro says 17.2"

The really telling thing is that the 359 has 29 more seats, but has 47T more MTOW and 40,000lbs more installed thrust, than the 788, and no amount of seat width can close that gap.

Ruscoe

777Jet · Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:45 am

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 16):
Which is better, which is worse?

A 10 abreast B777 like EK's
A 9 abreast B789 like QR's

I can't comment on the QR 787, but I've flown in both the 10 abreast EK 777 and the 9 abreast UA 787 and would take the 10 abreast 777 over the 9 abreast 787 any day of the week. That is, of course, just based on a few EK and UA flights. I just felt far more cramped in the 9 abreast UA 787 and that was only for a 2hr flight - the EK 777 flight was more than 6 times that length in duration and was fine.

RJ321 · Tue Dec 23, 2014 7:04 am

I personally think that civil aircraft operating long haul routes should have a 3-3-3 (just like QR in this case) or 2-4-2 configuration (like the A330) in Y rather than 3-4-3 which would really aid the comfort, privacy and satisfaction of the passengers.

boysteve · Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:47 am

Quoting RJ321 (Reply 28):
I personally think that civil aircraft operating long haul routes should have a 3-3-3 (just like QR in this case) or 2-4-2 configuration (like the A330) in Y rather than 3-4-3 which would really aid the comfort, privacy and satisfaction of the passengers.

What about on a B744, or A388? What do you suggest for these aircraft?

KarelXWB · Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:48 am

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 26):
The really telling thing is that the 359 has 29 more seats, but has 47T more MTOW and 40,000lbs more installed thrust, than the 788, and no amount of seat width can close that gap.

You are now comparing two different cabin configurations. The A359 has more J seats (36 vs 22), and more seat pitch in Y. It will be used on premium routes and generate more revenue; a similar configuration would give you ~ 50 additional seats over the 788.

Don't forget, the A350-900 is a direct 777-200ER / A343-300 replacement. It cannot be compared to the much smaller 787-8.

[Edited 2014-12-23 01:27:00]

TheSonntag · Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:06 am

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 29):

What about on a B744, or A388? What do you suggest for these aircraft?

Retirement and end of production

.

3rdGen · Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:43 am

Quoting gilesdavies (Reply 2):

How ironic is that, the 787 seems to be Qatar Airways new cattle truck with awful seating in economy with 16.5 inch seat width and then the A350 rocks up with 18 inch seat width in economy!

Having spoken with fellow Qatar Airways flyers and read numerous forums, the biggest gripe in economy is the seating on the 787's.

That 1.5 inches makes a big difference to even the slimmest flyers.

Quoting B777LRF (Reply 6):
Having been exposed to the QR 787 in economy, I can vouch for the seating being absolutely horrible. Not only are they very narrow, the pitch is also very tight. But the worst part is how hard the seat is - think concrete and you're not far off.

I'd advise anyone who value their sanity, comfort and humanity to stay well clear of the QR 787 in economy.

Agreed.

Horrible, just horrible

Business is just superb but economy is horrendous, should not have to fly 7 hours in that cabin. It is in fact the slimmest seat that I have ever sat in in a commercial aircraft.

Would take a 320 series economy over QR787 any day. I am 6'0" and around 180lbs. and I sat in a bulk head economy seat where there is no gap under the armrests in order to accommodate the IFE screen. Worst 4 hours of my life, and then just as I started to nap I was awoken and told to recline upright so the guy behind me could eat? Not really something I want to do but sometimes I have no choice. BTW just found out that my 777 economy ride on QR is changed to a 787, I am devastated to say the least.

I actually think that at some point in time there needs to be a law about how narrow those seats can be. I am seriously not a big guy, and if QR want to be sending the 787-9 on 7+ flights they had better go 2-4-2.

I have to quote B777LRF again: "I'd advise anyone who value their sanity, comfort and humanity to stay well clear of the QR 787 in economy"

I think maybe QR had no choice but to cram us in like sardines in Y since they really do have large J class seats.

Looks like EY have also gone 9 abreast. Maybe its the only way to justify operating this aircraft? Or is it just greed on the part of the airlines?

[Edited 2014-12-23 03:45:07]

RickNRoll · Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:21 pm

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 27):
I can't comment on the QR 787, but I've flown in both the 10 abreast EK 777 and the 9 abreast UA 787 and would take the 10 abreast 777 over the 9 abreast 787 any day of the week. That is, of course, just based on a few EK and UA flights. I just felt far more cramped in the 9 abreast UA 787 and that was only for a 2hr flight - the EK 777 flight was more than 6 times that length in duration and was fine.

It's quite easily addressed. Just squeeze more seats into the A350.

TheSonntag · Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:06 pm

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 32):

Sounds like the airline treats the economy passengers just like the workers of the world cup 2022

.

But seriously, this does not really sound like a major airline, it sounds like a charter airline.

817Dreamliiner · Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:22 pm

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 32):
I actually think that at some point in time there needs to be a law about how narrow those seats can be. I am seriously not a big guy, and if QR want to be sending the 787-9 on 7+ flights they had better go 2-4-2.

They don't need to do that.You can (in theory) have 18inch seats at 9Y on a 787. All they need to do is do what Airbus does on the A350.

3rdGen · Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:30 pm

Quoting TheSonntag (Reply 34):
But seriously, this does not really sound like a major airline, it sounds like a charter airline.

But it seems like everyone is doing this, EY and UA included. Might have more to do with the economics of the airplane.

Quoting 817Dreamliner (Reply 34):
"They don't need to do that.You can (in theory) have 18inch seats at 9Y on a 787. All they need to do is do what Airbus does on the A350."

What does Airbus do on the 350? And if they could have 9 abreast with 18 inch seats why wouldn't they?

This aircraft was supposed to replace the 767. Looking at the seat maps of most 767 and from my own recollection most were 2-3-2. Realistically this airplane should simply replicate the number of seats of the average 767 and fly the same routes for less. As far as I can tell, the issue is that when the 767 initially came out J class took up significantly less space than it does today because J was 2-2-2 with simple recliners. Today QRs 787 are 1-2-1 and take up significantly more room than the standard recliners, in fact QRs J product on the 787 is so famed because of how extraordinarily roomy and comfortable it is, AAB boasted on how QRs J is like most airlines F. The issue he didn't bother to mention is that in order to keep the same number of Y seats they would have to significantly squeeze people in the back. And it seems most airlines are going this way.

Taking a look at airlines that are running 767 with the standard recliners vs. lie flats, e.g. Delta. There is a significant difference (approx 50) seats when Delta uses lie flats. And Delta's configuration is much tighter than QRs. I don't really see how far these airlines will go in order to over do J while messing with Y.

[Edited 2014-12-23 05:44:27]

[Edited 2014-12-23 05:45:47]

Richard28 · Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:40 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 35):
They don't need to do that.You can (in theory) have 18inch seats at 9Y on a 787. All they need to do is do what Airbus does on the A350.

The B787 has a narrower cabin width, which restricts the seat width on a 9Y config. The A350 fuselage is slightly wider, allowing wider seats.

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 36):
But it seems like everyone is doing this

unfortunately so, I think it is only JAL that has 2-4-2 in Y on the 787. Such a shame. a lovely aircraft, air pressure/humidity,high tech, modern, just with no room in Y to breathe!

817Dreamliiner · Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:45 pm

Quoting Richard28 (Reply 37):
The B787 has a narrower cabin width, which restricts the seat width on a 9Y config. The A350 fuselage is slightly wider, allowing wider seats.

While that is true, Airbus wouldn't get 18 inch seat width with a 2 inch armrest that Boeing uses on the 787. If they both used the same armrest width(either 1.5 inches or 2 inches) the difference is only about 4mm in favour of the A350.

SYDSpotter · Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:12 pm

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 32):
Worst 4 hours of my life, and then just as I started to nap I was awoken and told to recline upright so the guy behind me could eat?

Well the alternative is the guy behind you has his meal tray 6 inches from his head if you keep it in the recline position.

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 32):
I actually think that at some point in time there needs to be a law about how narrow those seats can be. I am seriously not a big guy, and if QR want to be sending the 787-9 on 7+ flights they had better go 2-4-2.

Not gonna happen anytime soon. You will always have a choice as to who you fly with, the airlines aren't forcing to fly with them. And unless it is a safety issue, the airlines can do as they please.

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 32):
Looks like EY have also gone 9 abreast. Maybe its the only way to justify operating this aircraft? Or is it just greed on the part of the airlines?

Well NH are going 8 abreast on their long haul 788's, so they can make it work on their routes.

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 36):
The issue he didn't bother to mention is that in order to keep the same number of Y seats they would have to significantly squeeze people in the back. And it seems most airlines are going this way.

On any given route, J class fares are minimum 4x a Y class fare, so you gotta keep the premium customers happy.

I don't think airfares in this era of flying (relative to one's income) have ever been so cheap, so we have to compromise a bit on comfort. If airfares were rising and comfort was also decreasing, then that's another story.

At the end of the day, we as consumers have a choice, buy a cheaper Y ticket and sacrifice comfort, or buy a slightly more expensive Y ticket on another carrier which offers slightly more comfort.
Eg: Fly a 10 abreast TZ(Scoot) 777 or fly a 9 abreast SQ 777.
Fly a 9 abreast QR 787 or fly 8 abreast NH 787.
Fly a 9 abreast D7 A333 or fly a 8 abreast MH A333

[Edited 2014-12-23 06:13:30]

[Edited 2014-12-23 06:14:05]

KarelXWB · Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:15 pm

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 39):
or buy a slightly more expensive Y ticket on another carrier which offers slightly more comfort.

Or fly Economy Plus or Business Class.

817Dreamliiner · Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:43 pm

Quoting 3rdGen (Reply 36):
What does Airbus do on the 350? And if they could have 9 abreast with 18 inch seats why wouldn't they?

Sorry 3rdGen, didn't see this part when I posted. Airbus uses (according to their aircraft documents) a 1.5 inch armrest on the A350, Boeing uses a 2 inch one. If you put the 2 inch one on the A350 seat width reduces it to something like 17.37 inches if I remember correctly, and with a typical seat width of 17.2 inches on the 787 with the same 2 inch armrest its only 0.17 inches difference which is roughly only 4mm. But it all depends on the airlines. These typical seat widths are only a guide. The 787 could have 17.9 inch seats at 9Y if it had 1.5 inch armrests.

TheSonntag · Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:57 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 40):

Or fly Economy Plus or Business Class.

Or the A380

neutronstar73 · Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:08 pm

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 26):

Hmmm I would think no, considering they (7 and a359) compete in two different segments (767 vs 777-200)..

I could just as easily say:

777LR will fly more passengers further the A359 and has over 40k more thrust, and will pack a hell of a lot more cargo than an a359. No amount of seat width can overcome that.

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 26):

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 30):

Thank u. My sentiments exactly.

seabosdca · Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:00 pm

Quoting SYDSpotter (Reply 39):
Well NH are going 8 abreast on their long haul 788's, so they can make it work on their routes.

NH is converting their 787s to 9Y. Once they are done with that process, JAL will be the only 8Y 787 operator left in the world.

AABB777 · Tue Dec 23, 2014 8:33 pm

Quoting NeutronStar73 (Reply 43):
777LR will fly more passengers further the A359 and has over 40k more thrust, and will pack a hell of a lot more cargo than an a359. No amount of seat width can overcome that.

QR's A350 has capacity for 283 pax. Their 77L has capacity for 259 pax. Thus the A350 in QR's configuration will fly more pax than the 77L.

The A350 fits nicely between the 77L and 77W (335 pax).

astuteman · Tue Dec 23, 2014 10:09 pm

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 26):
The really telling thing is that the 359 has 29 more seats, but has 47T more MTOW and 40,000lbs more installed thrust, than the 788, and no amount of seat width can close that gap.

yeah. What are QR thinking of, going with the A350?
Of course, those statistics are all very interesting, but the only statistics that matter are cost and revenue.

Quoting NeutronStar73 (Reply 43):
777LR will fly more passengers further the A359 and has over 40k more thrust, and will pack a hell of a lot more cargo than an a359. No amount of seat width can overcome that.

I'll buy the "further" and "more thrust" bit, but "more passengers" and "a hell of a lot more cargo?"
I doubt it somehow

rgds

scbriml · Wed Dec 24, 2014 11:34 am

Quoting astuteman (Reply 46):
What are QR thinking of, going with the A350?

Probably the same as SQ, BA, CX, EY, AA, UA, etc, etc, etc.

enzo011 · Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:00 pm

Quoting 817Dreamliiner (Reply 41):
Sorry 3rdGen, didn't see this part when I posted. Airbus uses (according to their aircraft documents) a 1.5 inch armrest on the A350, Boeing uses a 2 inch one. If you put the 2 inch one on the A350 seat width reduces it to something like 17.37 inches if I remember correctly, and with a typical seat width of 17.2 inches on the 787 with the same 2 inch armrest its only 0.17 inches difference which is roughly only 4mm. But it all depends on the airlines. These typical seat widths are only a guide. The 787 could have 17.9 inch seats at 9Y if it had 1.5 inch armrests.

Where does the extra space go to then on the A350? Or is there dead space in the cabin width not being used?

ba319-131 · Wed Dec 24, 2014 2:44 pm

Quoting Boysteve (Reply 16):
Which is better, which is worse?

A 10 abreast B777 like EK's
A 9 abreast B789 like QR's

- I'd avoid them both in economy.

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