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captainmeeerkat
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:52 pm

Please continue the discussion here as the last thread is too long and bothersome to load in some browsers.

Link to previous thread:

BREAKING: Air Asia Bound For SIN Missing (by QatarA340 Dec 27 2014 in Civil Aviation)
my luggage is better travelled than me!
 
asetiadi
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 12:58 pm

It's bothering me how until up to this hour they weren't able to locate the plane given the location is pretty much nearby islands and not to mention a lot of fishing boats. I know this area pretty well!

We really need to study and implement new technology features to locate plane wreckage faster. I'm afraid they searched the wrong area again just like Adam Air situation few years back.
 
kl911
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:00 pm

Sooo sad....   I have had a perfect experience with them last year, incl one of the friendliest crew and best airline meal ever ( prebooked )

R.I.P....
 
FCAFLYBOY
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:10 pm

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 1):

It's bothering me how until up to this hour they weren't able to locate the plane given the location is pretty much nearby islands and not to mention a lot of fishing boats. I know this area pretty well!

We really need to study and implement new technology features to locate plane wreckage faster. I'm afraid they searched the wrong area again just like Adam Air situation few years back.


I agree. What I find a little odd is that there are no reports of fishermen etc noticing anything at all, or any odd sightings noticed. It was after 7am local time so I find it strange nothing has been reported, no texts or calls made from passengers yet reported either..
 
longhaul67
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:14 pm

I'd be interested to know if any ACARS or automated messages were received.

[Edited 2014-12-28 05:15:44]
 
cpqi
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:14 pm

I have not seen any mention of communications between the ac and atc stating an emergency. Has there been anything published ? Or are we to conclude that whatever happened was so sudden that it didn't afford time to do so ?
I hate turbulence
 
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KarelXWB
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:15 pm

Quoting asetiadi (Reply 1):
It's bothering me how until up to this hour they weren't able to locate the plane given the location is pretty much nearby islands and not to mention a lot of fishing boats. I know this area pretty well!

It doesn't really matter how good you know the area, it remains a large area to search.

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 3):
What I find a little odd is that there are no reports of fishermen etc noticing anything at all, or any odd sightings noticed. It was after 7am local time so I find it strange nothing has been reported, no texts or calls made from passengers yet reported either..

The area is larger than people might think.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
Armodeen
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:19 pm

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 3):
I agree. What I find a little odd is that there are no reports of fishermen etc noticing anything at all, or any odd sightings noticed. It was after 7am local time so I find it strange nothing has been reported, no texts or calls made from passengers yet reported either..

I'd the weather was as bad as has been reported would there even be many fishermen out? And even if there were, their visibility is likely to be limited in such conditions?
 
dmsolovyev
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:21 pm

Quoting cpqi (Reply 5):
I have not seen any mention of communications between the ac and atc stating an emergency. Has there been anything published ? Or are we to conclude that whatever happened was so sudden that it didn't afford time to do so ?

Officials have confirmed no distress signal sent from the cockpit: http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/64...om-indonesia-to-singapore-vanishes

[Edited 2014-12-28 05:22:24]
 
FCAFLYBOY
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:24 pm

Quoting dmsolovyev (Reply 8):

Quoting cpqi (Reply 5):
I have not seen any mention of communications between the ac and atc stating an emergency. Has there been anything published ? Or are we to conclude that whatever happened was so sudden that it didn't afford time to do so ?

Yes, officials have confirmed no distress signal sent from the cockpit: http://www.stuff.co.nz/world/asia/64...om-indonesia-to-singapore-vanishes

So is it perhaps a little more certain now that this was likely a catastrophic event? No time to send a signal perhaps, or make a May Day call?

What would be the most likely causes for such a sudden event? A bomb, or serious structural failure or damage externally? Damage caused by severe turbulence leading to failure - also possible.

[Edited 2014-12-28 05:26:18]
 
Andy33
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:26 pm

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 3):
I agree. What I find a little odd is that there are no reports of fishermen etc noticing anything at all, or any odd sightings noticed.

If the media reports of the local weather conditions are accurate it isn't odd at all - most fishermen would be in harbour or riding out the storm somewhere sheltered, and visibility would be very poor.

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 3):
no texts or calls made from passengers yet reported either..

To make calls or send texts they'd need to have come down on land or close to the shore, within range of a cellphone mast, and of course to have survived.
 
lowbank
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:28 pm

If it had communicated a 7700 it would have flashed up on FR24, as an Air France plane did earlier today when it returned to MRS.
I mentioned earlier that Airbus has patented an ejectable black box that floats.. That should if implemented mean things are found and understood sooner.

Always remember, aviate, navigate, communicate. If the pilots are dealing with an overwhelming situation they will not communicate with ATC.
Every days a school day.
 
QF29
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:36 pm

Apparently search has been suspended for the night

@bbcnews_ticker: Search for AirAsia flight QZ8501 suspended for the night, Indonesian Ministry of Transport says http://t.co/Y91hVmLBcY
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cpqi
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:38 pm

Although pilots can be very busy during moderate or severe turbulence, it would seem unlikely to me that no communication would be sent in just these circumstances. At the very least a mayday call. There has also been no comment on automated signals from the ac as there were with af447. For the airframe to be so compromised so quickly that no signal could be given is all but impossible with just weather factors. Perhaps a pilot on her could comment on how unusual such lack of communication would be just because of bad weather. Sadly the alternatives are even more frightening
I hate turbulence
 
trintocan
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:45 pm

This is very shocking to hear. Let's all pray for all those involved in this incident and their loved ones. 2014 has not been a good year for civil aviation. Let's hope for some success when the crews resume the search in the morning.

Trintocan.
Hop to it, fly for life!
 
ltbewr
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:47 pm

It seems to me that based on the limited info we have so far, that likely a combination of factors were involved in the loss of this flight:
- Severe storms, perhaps a 'supercell' much like that involved with AF447's crash
- Perhaps at near max operating conditions, near or at the 'coffin corner' in altitude, speed, wind conditions
- Inaccurate speed information from the pitot tubes (icing, etc. as believed a factor in AF 447).
- Although the pilots were apparently experienced overall and as to the region with its severe storms, they misjudged their conditions, accidently bumped the auto-pilot off or the auto-pilot just made a bad calculation, didn't push for more thrust or drop in altitude to gain speed and lift.
- A mechanical failure or loss of a control surface.
- That whatever went wrong occurred in a few minutes, or even less.

Hopefully remains of the aircraft, of the persons on board, the recorders can be recovered soon to help figure out what happened and be used to reduce similar risks in the future.
 
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teme82
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:49 pm

Quoting Starlionblue:
You're speculating on very small amounts of data.

Yeah I am. But it does make some sense to me.
Flying high and low
 
BestWestern
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:51 pm

Quoting cpqi (Reply 13):

Wrong.

Pilot priorities are
1. Aviate
2. Navigate
3. Communicate
Greetings from Hong Kong.... a subsidiary of China Inc.
 
Sandsofly
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:53 pm

Hi, I have been on this forum as a reader for at least 5 years. During the Malaysia incident I finally got myself an ID. Everything I've learned about flying I've learned from reading here and there are a few members I would spend extra time reading especially close to learn more. Mandala and Pihero to name a few. I love to fly and find flight and the logistics of it endlessly fascinating. It started with my cousin, he perished in the Sioux City Iowa crash. It was a terrible event for our family and still is. Anyway, I wanted to introduce myself and finally post. I can't believe another plane is missing. I have come to learn that planes today are beyond impressive but (in general) human factors seem to interfere more than random mechanical issues. An A320 is a helluvan airplane, I feel more than safe on one but have learned to wait for all the facts to come in and read carefully!  
 
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KarelXWB
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:53 pm

Quoting lowbank (Reply 11):
I mentioned earlier that Airbus has patented an ejectable black box that floats.. That should if implemented mean things are found and understood sooner.

Airbus are also studying a tracking concept for its airplane families:

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/BzWdk_AIgAEBwQN.jpg:large
http://twitter.com/FG_STrim/status/519494592799211520

[Edited 2014-12-28 05:53:56]
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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RayChuang
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:56 pm

It sounds more and more like the AirAsia A320 may have been lost in a fashion similar to what happened to AF 447 some years ago--the plane flew into a very violent thunderstorm and the flight crew lost control of the plane inside the thunderstorm for a number of (now unknown) reasons. We'll need to look at the FDR and CVR (once recovered) to really find out what happened.
 
cpqi
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:57 pm

Quoting bestwestern (Reply 17):

I am aware of the priority list but that doesnt make me wrong. Nor indeed does it answer the question of no automated signals. If things were as simple as your post then mayday calls would never happen.
I hate turbulence
 
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enilria
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 1:58 pm

Quoting FCAFLYBOY (Reply 9):
So is it perhaps a little more certain now that this was likely a catastrophic event? No time to send a signal perhaps, or make a May Day call?

If it exploded in the air or broke up there would be a lot of floating debris.

Do ELTs just not work at all? Isn't this a problem? That system needs to be scrapped and replaced.
 
lowbank
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:05 pm

Thank KarelXWB,
I understood people were looking were looking at several alternatives but did not know what they were or had any evidence.
Things need to be done, that's clear, fully understanding what's happened in sad cases like today's is absolutely necessary so we Engineers can redefine what we make in an attempt to prevent it happening again.
If people understood the lengths that are gone to learn from these events, I am sure they would be amazed.
Every days a school day.
 
liftsifter
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:14 pm

I think some of us are jumping the gun a bit, here. The loss of contact was reported less than 12-hours ago and people are already trying to create new systems and such. I'm not saying this will be an easy crash to decipher or anything, but let's be patient here.

In the mean time, let's continue praying for the souls on board.
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dtw2hyd
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:16 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 22):
Do ELTs just not work at all? Isn't this a problem? That system needs to be scrapped and replaced.

The entire commercial aircraft tracking system is a pack of cards. In theory there are several "things" complementing each other, tested on paper how they work, but in real life scenario there are enough exceptions for each device making the whole system not dependable.

Fixed ELTs, Portable ELTs, Beacons in Door slides, CVR/FDR ULBs, list goes on. If I recall correctly MH370 had total of 11 devices.

In this day and age if we cannot find a commercial aircraft in a small area for 12+ hours, it is a shame, yet commercial interests dictate the industry.
All posts are just opinions.
 
frostyj
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:19 pm

I am being honest and saying it totally annoys me to no means when people say an aircraft has been found when actually it is still missing. How do you think family members feel.
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BaconButty
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:23 pm

It's long past time for deployable ELT's (containing the FDR/CVR solid state storage).
http://flightsafety.org/foundation-e...s-deployable-flight-data-recorders
Down with that sort of thing!
 
lowbank
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:25 pm

Given that we still have no idea what happened to MH370, it's a bit hard to propose changes to prevent a recurrence.

I beg to differ. In fact, we do know exactly what has happened in both cases: Modern airliners with hundreds of people onboard disappeared without a trace from the skies, and the world has to rely on a costly and slow search operation to ever be able to hope to find out when, where and why the plane crashed - with uncertain results. The same has happended before, of course, as in the case of AF 447, but this year has really highlighted this near-scandalous, unacceptable situation.

That much we know, and this is a shame and a disgrace in this day and age.

As discussed in these forums at length in the context of MH 370, the technology for continuous global tracking of airplane positions and flight parameters in fact exists and is affordable. The only thing missing is the appropriate legislation, and the main reason why this is not being implemented are stubborn obstructionists from within the aviation industry, as demonstrated by the numerous corresponding comments on this board.

Clearly, there are a lot of people who are so afraid that their actions onboard may be "spied upon" that they rather accept that now and then, hundreds of human beings disappear without a trace. This is an unacceptable and despicable position to take, if you ask me.


Had to copy from previous thread but that's the whole point, it disappeared . As has this aircraft.
Valuable hours are lost searching, when in this day and age the SAR services should be going straight to a location, so that if there are survivors they have the best chance of staying alive.
Planes should no longer go missing any longer.
Every days a school day.
 
trex8
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:31 pm

Maybe its just your garden variety bombing by a terrorist group? Remember Bali.
 
eugegall
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:39 pm

Instead of arguing about finding systems to find aircraft once they've crashed why don't they work on preventing the accidents/incidents.

I know its impossible to find a solution for all problems but wouldn't a ballistic parachute system in commercial aircraft work? Even if all it does is add a little time for the doomed pilots to radio in with problem and position?

I agree though, in this day and age where I can open and close my car from my mobile phone anywhere in the world why do we keep losing aircraft?
 
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RayChuang
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:40 pm

Given that the weather over the Java Sea was extremely bad with a lot of big thunderstorms all over the area (according to IR weather satellite information at the time), the loss due to extreme turbulence from the thunderstorms is still likely, especially since the plane requested a change to flight path to get out of the way of one of the big thunderstorms. Didn't a Lion Air airliner return to its originating airport a few hours earlier because it reported really bad flying conditions in the Java Sea?
 
liquidair
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:42 pm

So, the transponder fell silent at FL363? climbing, but GS only 353, which apparently at that height should have been GS 500 (target IAS 300... Not 150).

Still, if they were flying with envelope protection, the plane wouldn't have allowed the craft to stall, right?

So, assuming that the speed was slow (emirates flight nearby also has GS500 at the time), can we also make a jump and assume they were flying without envelope protection?

If so, how or why so? Bearing in mind the A320 pitots never suffered like the A330/40 ones...
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
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larshjort
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:47 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 33):





So, the transponder fell silent at FL363? climbing, but GS only 353, which apparently at that height should have been GS 500 (target IAS 300... Not 150).

If they had a 150kt headwind speed would be right on target.

/Lars
139, 306, 319, 320, 321, 332, 34A, AN2, AT4, AT5, AT7, 733, 735, 73G, 738, 739, 146, AR1, BH2, CN1, CR2, DH1, DH3, DH4,
 
liquidair
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 2:53 pm

Quoting larshjort (Reply 34):



how likely it's that though? Look at the emirates flight not far off... Same track I believe? GS 500


Would a double flame out kill the transponder? What I'm getting at is, yes they were climbing, but also slow(ing)- if they couldn't go around the weather, perhaps seeing a block of water in front, they tried to go above hitting ice... But could that flame out both engines?

[Edited 2014-12-28 07:03:15]
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
kurtverbose
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:00 pm

Quoting lowbank (Reply 29):
this year has really highlighted this near-scandalous, unacceptable situation.

Lowbank - I couldn't agree more - with your entire post.
 
PlaneInsomniac
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:00 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 19):
Airbus are also studying a tracking concept for its airplane families:

Completely reasonable and long, long overdue.

However, unfortunately, this will not stop the obstructionists and naysayers populating this board, who think a wait-and-see attitude is best when it comes to the heart of critical aviation safety measures, and that the wish to move beyond 1930-era communication systems for airliners carrying hundreds of people is a waste of money and effort.

Exhibit A, out of many similar incomprehensible opinions on a.net. Apparently praying is superior to asking for the implementation of long-overdue, technically absolutely feasible airpline tracking:

Quoting liftsifter (Reply 24):
I think some of us are jumping the gun a bit, here. The loss of contact was reported less than 12-hours ago and people are already trying to create new systems and such. I'm not saying this will be an easy crash to decipher or anything, but let's be patient here.

In the mean time, let's continue praying for the souls on board.
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
Kaiarahi
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:04 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 33):
Bearing in mind the A320 pitots never suffered like the A330/40 ones...

Wrong. At the time AF447 occurred, AF had already implemented a program to replace A320 pitots because they had a higher incident rate than A330s.
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
PlaneInsomniac
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:09 pm

Quoting eugegall (Reply 31):
Instead of arguing about finding systems to find aircraft once they've crashed why don't they work on preventing the accidents/incidents.

That's right. And while we're at it, why don't "they" create world peace and an unlimited free energy source?

Airplanes will always crash and/or disappear, and continuous global tracking of airplane position and flight parameters is technically and financially possiable and long, long overdue. Of course, it is also imperative to keep improving aviation safety, but IMHO it is nonsense to postulate that the latter objective and the former are mutually exclusive.
Am I cured? Slept 5 hours on last long-haul flight...
 
CX Flyboy
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:09 pm

Quoting cpqi (Reply 13):
For the airframe to be so compromised so quickly that no signal could be given is all but impossible with just weather factors. Perhaps a pilot on her could comment on how unusual such lack of communication would be just because of bad weather.

Different aircraft have different communications capabilities. Different airlines also pay for different levels of monitoring of their aircraft. Even within an airline, the monitoring of one aircraft type can be significantly different to another. I have no idea what the A320 is capable of and no idea what communications package Air Asia Indonesia has paid for. It isn't inconceivable that they have low level inflight monitoring, especially as it is a short haul fleet.
 
KC135Hydraulics
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:10 pm

I am starting to believe this region of the world is the new Bermuda Triangle.
MSgt, USAF
KC-135R / C-17A Pneudraulic Systems Mechanic Supervisor
 
Chaostheory
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:11 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 33):
Bearing in mind the A320 pitots never suffered like the A330/40 ones...

As long as pitots are used as for speed measurement, they will continue to ice up.

Doesn't matter whether you're on an Airbus or Boeing.

We've had pitot icing events on every type we operate apart from the E-170.
 
liquidair
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:14 pm

Quoting Kaiarahi (Reply 38):

I stand corrected, clearly!

However, did they issue an AD to cover it, do we know if this plane had replaced them?

@chaosthoery- yes, I can believe that- they are only certified to a certain level, right?

Come to think of it, wasn't the A320 at Perpignan the result of a blocked sensor- but not pitot? My memory fails, sorry for it's lameness!

[Edited 2014-12-28 07:17:51]
trying to stop my gaseous viscosity go liquid
 
ltbewr
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:19 pm

I suspect as there is some good data that suggests where this flight lost contact, as with AF 447, it is likely debris will be located in the next 24-72 hours to verify this loss and start the recovery of the remains of it, the pax and recorders.
 
Tom_EDDF
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:19 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 43):
Come to think of it, wasn't the A320 at Perpignan the result of a blocked sensor- but not pitot? My memory fails, sorry for it's lameness!

AOA sensor I believe it was.
 
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hOMSaR
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Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:20 pm

Quoting eugegall (Reply 31):

Instead of arguing about finding systems to find aircraft once they've crashed why don't they work on preventing the accidents/incidents.

That's exactly what aviation professionals have been trying to do since the beginning of human flight. Problem is, it's impossible to do anything 100% safely, which is why we have to settle for 99.9999% safe, and keep working to improve on that. Even still, those improvements can never get us to 100%.

Quote:

I know its impossible to find a solution for all problems but wouldn't a ballistic parachute system in commercial aircraft work? Even if all it does is add a little time for the doomed pilots to radio in with problem and position?

There is virtually no known circumstance on a commercial airliner where adding a parachute will make things safer than letting the pilots (or computers) control the plane. Even if we assume the hypothetical "plane is already doomed to crash" (which, realistically, unless there's structural failure that completely destroys all controllability, a plane would never be guaranteed to crash unless there isn't enough time to recover; and if there isn't enough time to recover, there isn't enough time to deploy a parachute or send out a radio message), doesn't this just become another way to help locate a crashed plane instead of preventing the actual crash (which you've just argued against in your first line?

Quote:

I agree though, in this day and age where I can open and close my car from my mobile phone anywhere in the world why do we keep losing aircraft?

As was mentioned repeatedly in threads on MH370, you cannot, in fact, use (or remotely locate) your cell phone "anywhere in the world." It doesn't work if there isn't actual cell coverage, which is often the case over wide open expanses of water. Besides, in bad weather and limited daylight, finding wreckage at sea (if it crashed in the water) can be difficult. The plane hasn't even been missing for 24 hours yet, so no need to point to this as another example that we "keep losing aircraft." So far, there has been one example of a recent commercial crash that hasn't been found in a reasonable amount of time. If they find debris from this plane in the next day, then it shouldn't be added to the list.
I was raised by a cup of coffee.
 
namezero111111
Posts: 139
Joined: Thu Mar 20, 2014 7:05 pm

Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:25 pm

Quoting eugegall (Reply 31):
I agree though, in this day and age where I can open and close my car from my mobile phone anywhere in the world why do we keep losing aircraft?

Try opening and closing your car using your mobile phone from anwhere in the vast deserts and oceans in this world.

Quoting liquidair (Reply 35):
Would a double flame out kill the transponder?

No, not unless compounded by other failures.
I'm not familiar with A320 systems, but in general:
1. Generators on the engines will continue to produce power (they normally take on load as soon/as long as the engine rotates at 40-50% N1 speed)
2. The APU would autostart and provide power
3. At least one transponder is on an essential bus (battery)
4. A RAT would deploy and provide power to the essential bus
 
Kaiarahi
Posts: 1810
Joined: Tue Jul 07, 2009 6:55 pm

Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:28 pm

Quoting liquidair (Reply 43):
However, did they issue an AD to cover it, do we know if this plane had replaced them?

You'd have to check with the Indonesian DGCA, as this aircraft was registered in Indonesia.

Quoting eugegall (Reply 31):
in this day and age where I can open and close my car from my mobile phone anywhere in the world

Have you tried doing it in the middle of an ocean?
Empty vessels make the most noise.
 
ranold76
Posts: 51
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2014 11:41 pm

Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:30 pm

Surely they saw these Wx cells on their ND? No?
Couldn't they have flown around those cells in the Java Sea, to the west or northeast?
The thing that bugs me the most about this, is that in AF447's case, they had no land around them and no options. QZ8501 had land nearby around them, with possible options? No?

[Edited 2014-12-28 07:32:00]
 
User avatar
DIRECTFLT
Posts: 2368
Joined: Sat Jan 02, 2010 3:00 am

Air Asia QZ8501 SUB to SIN Missing Part 2

Sun Dec 28, 2014 3:33 pm

I was curious as to how many hours did each of the pilots have, on the Airbus A320-200 ?

I am disturbed that no mayday call was made considering the plane's altitude.

We'll have to wait until the black boxes are found. I do not believe there are any survivors. Something was so chaotic at altitude that there was not even a few seconds for a mayday call to go out.

From CNN:

Bad weather gripped the region at the time, CNN meteorologist Derek Van Dam said.

"We still had lines of very heavy thunderstorms" when the plane was flying, Van Dam said. "But keep in mind, turbulence doesn't necessarily bring down airplanes."

CNN aviation analyst Mary Schiavo said that if there was an onboard emergency, the pilots should have issued a mayday call or a pan-pan call.

"Mayday means you're immediately in danger of losing the flight; pan-pan means that it is urgent but that you can continue the flight and request an alternate route or an alternate airport," said Schiavo, a former inspector general for the U.S. Department of Transportation.

"It's disconcerting in that the standard procedures for an emergency don't seem to have been deployed," she said.

[Edited 2014-12-28 07:38:55]
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