VS43 LGW-LAS In Trouble?

Leej · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:24 pm

Just noticed on FR24
http://www.flightradar24.com/VIR43E/526ac78

Surely too low to be dumping?

WesternFlyer · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:30 pm

Rumors say there might be issues with the landing gear.

More sources say that the right wing landing gear is not down. Emergency landing is probably coming up.

[Edited 2014-12-29 06:35:54]

slinky09 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:37 pm

Seems to be coming into land, a V-Flyer has seen it flying overhead with landing gear down, perhaps not locked in place until now?

Edit: Same person has observed the place circling an reports the outer starboard landing gear appears stuck in with the doors partially open. Hope all is OK.

[Edited 2014-12-29 06:40:35]

Flymichael21 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:40 pm

Instagram page GeminiJets55, has a photo of the aircraft circling with one part of the main landing gear retracted, with the other parts down.

jlager2 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:40 pm

Just seen it circling overhead with landing gear lowered. Been that way for some time but now heading for the airport

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:40 pm

Someone captured a photo of the aircraft, you can clearly see that the main landing gear is not fully locked:

http://twitter.com/LloydAves/status/549575272144846848

slinky09 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:42 pm

Appears to be overflying the airport, possible for ground engineers to do a visual?

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:44 pm

First landing attempt at Gatwick has failed, going around now.

PlymSpotter · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:46 pm

Saw this one fly overhead the South West earlier after holding above the Bristol Channel. It was a little into the distance but I'm not sure there were four contrails, and I have heard it has engine as well as hydraulic issues.

Hoping for a safe outcome here, this seems to be a genuinely very serious situation.

Dan

slinky09 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:47 pm

Now reported in the media

aa1818 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:49 pm

It's climbing now. Would they have retracted the gear or left it down?

LGW is a single runway airport correct? Where would the other aircraft divert to should this 747 have to make a landing with compromised gear, assuming that they would have to shut down the runway after?

Hoping for a safe end to this incident.

Would they coat the runway in foam or anything for a landing if the main gear is not locked in place?

AA1818

slinky09 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:51 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 10):
LGW is a single runway airport correct? Where would the other aircraft divert to should this 747 have to make a landing with compromised gear, assuming that they would have to shut down the runway after?

Gatwick actually has two functional runways, only one is used, the other is the north side taxiway but it is wide and long enough to use in emergency.

Apparently the most recent flypast included a wing waggle, which hasn't dislodged the landing gear. I wonder what next?

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:53 pm

The jet is now flying above the English Channel.

aa1818 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:54 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 11):
Gatwick actually has two functional runways, only one is used, the other is the north side taxiway but it is wide and long enough to use in emergency.

Cheers for the info! So technically the airport can continue to operate other flights.

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 11):
Apparently the most recent flypast included a wing waggle, which hasn't dislodged the landing gear. I wonder what next?

Hoping and praying for a safe outcome. Anyone at Gatwick currently? Any sign of emergency crews being activated etc?

AA1818

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:55 pm

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 10):
It's climbing now. Would they have retracted the gear or left it down?

According to an observer in the area, the crew are trying to lock the gear with some maneuvers. Give it a good swing.

[Edited 2014-12-29 06:56:10]

jlager2 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 2:58 pm

I'm under the regular flightpath on approach to Gatwick and there is some increased activity in the area with police coming past but nothing else as the Airport is well equipped to handle an incident with its own fire crews. If it comes over again I'll post a picture

SamH123 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:00 pm

This plane was meant to be flying all the way to Las Vegas though,
If the landing gear didn't retract correctly after take off is that not something they would try and troubleshoot in the next 10+ hours of flight rather than turning back immediately?

eclipz · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:04 pm

Quoting SamH123 (Reply 16):

This plane was meant to be flying all the way to Las Vegas though,
If the landing gear didn't retract correctly after take off is that not something they would try and troubleshoot in the next 10+ hours of flight rather than turning back immediately?

I'm no expert, but you might want to have plenty of time (hence plenty of fuel) to try a few things calmly without the pressure of running out of fuel. And they have extensive maintenance crew in the area, when they land.
Plus, they may have excessive drag which may increase fuel flow...

[Edited 2014-12-29 07:06:43]

readytotaxi · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:05 pm

Lets have a good out come from this situation pls !

[Edited 2014-12-29 07:11:53]

longhauler · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:05 pm

Quoting SamH123 (Reply 16):
If the landing gear didn't retract correctly after take off is that not something they would try and troubleshoot in the next 10+ hours of flight rather than turning back immediately?

Not if it wouldn't retract .... you wouldn't get much past Newfoundland with the increased drag.

PlymSpotter · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:06 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 11):
Gatwick actually has two functional runways, only one is used, the other is the north side taxiway but it is wide and long enough to use in emergency.

Indeed, it's a practically unique situation. Two runways, but they can never be used simultaneously, thus meaning LGW only ever has one runway for use.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 13):
Cheers for the info! So technically the airport can continue to operate other flights.

No, as they will not have sufficient fire cover and most likely fire-fighting media available whilst any emergency with this flight is ongoing.

Quoting AA1818 (Reply 10):
Would they coat the runway in foam or anything for a landing if the main gear is not locked in place?

Most likely - the Virgin A340-300 emergency landing at LHR back in 1997, with one main gear retracted, is a valid precedent:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NprTbTVl1Uk

Dan

e195 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:06 pm

Heading out to the channel

Fuel dumping?

MIAspotter · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:08 pm

Quoting SamH123 (Reply 16):
This plane was meant to be flying all the way to Las Vegas though,
If the landing gear didn't retract correctly after take off is that not something they would try and troubleshoot in the next 10+ hours of flight rather than turning back immediately?

Well, having the landing gear not properly retracted would create a lot of drag, compromising fuel consumption, it would also hamper the aircraft performance as it would have to fly lower and slower, plus you will put a lot of stress on the exposed gear components.

And I guess VS would like to solve this emergency in LGW where they have maintenance facilities and means to sort out the stranded PAX.

MIAspotter.

gordonsmall · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:08 pm

Quoting E195 (Reply 21):
Heading out to the channel

Fuel dumping?

Not in the hold at Seaford VOR its not.

pvjin · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:09 pm

Let's hope they'll manage to get the gear down and locked. Interesting to follow such a situation from FR24.

[Edited 2014-12-29 07:09:49]

Aesma · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:11 pm

Quoting slinky09 (Reply 11):
Gatwick actually has two functional runways, only one is used, the other is the north side taxiway but it is wide and long enough to use in emergency.

A Gimli glider style emergency maybe, otherwise you don't use a taxiway to land, even if it used to be a runway.

Quoting SamH123 (Reply 16):
If the landing gear didn't retract correctly after take off is that not something they would try and troubleshoot in the next 10+ hours of flight rather than turning back immediately?

Too much drag to continue the flight, and if you get a second problem over the Atlantic (engine shut down, say), then you're really in trouble and could have avoided it.

audidudi · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:12 pm

With the landing gear down, it would take a lot longer than the scheduled 10+ hours to fly to LAS at the maximum speed that the aircraft could fly at. Better to have it land back at home base, or at an RAF airfield like Brize Norton nearby perhaps?

scarebus03 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:12 pm

It looks like the r/h wing gear hasn't extended. The good news seems to be that the nose, body gears and l/h wing gear have extended. I hope they'll be ok.

Fingers crossed

PlymSpotter · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:14 pm

Quoting Aesma (Reply 25):
Too much drag to continue the flight, and if you get a second problem over the Atlantic (engine shut down, say), then you're really in trouble and could have avoided it.

Indeed, although the landing gear did retract correctly and the aircraft flew several patterns at 35,000ft.

Dan

kbmiflyer · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:14 pm

Nightfall will be coming before too long, won't it?

SamH123 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:14 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 19):

Ah yeah, makes sense thanks

SamH123 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:17 pm

Quoting kbmiflyer (Reply 29):

Sunset in London is in about 45 minutes

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:18 pm

Quoting kbmiflyer (Reply 29):
Nightfall will be coming before too long, won't it?

Sunset at 4pm, about 45 minutes left.

mcr · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:19 pm

Quoting kbmiflyer (Reply 29):
Nightfall will be coming before too long, won't it?

Yes - sunset 16:01 GMT today, it will be dark at LGW within the hour.

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:20 pm

Close-up of the main landing gear:

http://twitter.com/SamPilcher/status/549583356011479040

One wheel set is stuck it seems.

lugie · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:20 pm

Do you think they'll try to perform an emergency landing while there's still daylight or are they rather going to concentrate on dumping/burning as much fuel as possible?

e195 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:23 pm

on the BBC now with an 'expert' SIGH

777Dad · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:24 pm

Is there any other means to get the gear down besides the standard way and what are the Pilots options?

slinky09 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:24 pm

Virgin reports the plane is readying for a 'non-standard' landing - be great to hear from those who can provide more detail on this. Separately, local fire and emergency services have confirmed they're on standby, I hope they're not needed. It can't be very happy on board some 4 hours into the flight now.

e195 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:24 pm

would it not be sensible to send it somewhere like BOH if its an emergency landing, without risking the LGW runway operation?

Airplanepics · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:26 pm

The runway is way too small for BOH - VS have a dedicated maintenance base at LGW.

P206 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:26 pm

Manual gear release is an option?

scarebus03 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:26 pm

Thanks for the close up. It looks like an emergency gear extension judging by the fact that the l/g doors are still open and didn't close after gear extension. The jumbo is very robust. I imagine if possible after dumping fuel they will manually transfer fuel to the left side to keep the weight on the deployed gears.

e195 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:28 pm

Quoting Airplanepics (Reply 40):
VS have a dedicated maintenance base at LGW.

true, but if there is a collapse (big if) does it not risk a lot more than going to a quieter airport?

Airplanepics · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:30 pm

Quoting E195 (Reply 43):
true, but if there is a collapse (big if) does it not risk a lot more than going to a quieter airport?

I'd rather disrupt a couple of thousand passengers than risk losing people.

Once it's all over they can most probably (depending on the final resting position) use 26R.

mmo · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:31 pm

Quoting P206 (Reply 41):
Manual gear release is an option?

Quoting 777Dad (Reply 37):
Is there any other means to get the gear down besides the standard way and what are the Pilots options?

There is an alternate gear extension that opens the latches and the gear door should open allowing the gear to free fall into the locked position. If the Alternate extension does not work, then there is no other option. The 747 family has demonstrated the ability to land on all body gear only or all wing gear only. It's not a real big deal to be honest.

mmo · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:32 pm

Quoting scarebus03 (Reply 42):
I imagine if possible after dumping fuel they will manually transfer fuel to the left side to keep the weight on the deployed gears.

There is no normal way to transfer fuel in the 747 family. The only real options are to use crossfeeds and boost pumps to create an imbalance.

slinky09 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:33 pm

VS43 has broken the latest hold and appears to be heading in to attempt landing ...

KarelXWB · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:33 pm

The aircraft just left the holding pattern above the channel and is heading for runway 26L.

P206 · Mon Dec 29, 2014 3:33 pm

it looks like it's heading back to LGW now

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