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catiii
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Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:04 pm

As reported on CNBC this morning, and in the below news report, Saudi plans to segregate passengers based on gender unless they are "close relatives." This is going to be a fascinating development for SkyTeam, especially Delta, who was criticized so vehemently when they allowed Saudi to enter the alliance. Delta said then that it "does not discriminate nor do we condone discrimination against any of our customers in regards to age, race, nationality, religion or gender." Not sure how Delta is going to continue to justify doing business with an alliance carrier who does discriminate based on both gender and religion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/travel/tr...ng-complaints-male-passengers.html

[Edited 2015-01-02 10:07:56]
 
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N62NA
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:30 pm

Just read the article. Interesting if this will stick.
 
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fallap
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:35 pm

Gentlemen and escorted ladies, welcome to Jeddah Airport - you are advised to set back your watches two thousand years.

Now we just need the "their country their rules " crowd and the party can commence.

[Edited 2015-01-02 10:36:08]
Ex grease monkey buried head to toe inside an F-16M
Now studying Political Science
 
Byrdluvs747
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:37 pm

Quoting Fallap (Reply 2):
Now we just need the "their country their rules crowd"

Because the "their country our rules" crowd is already here.
The 747: The hands who designed it were guided by god.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:46 pm

Sidebar: is that Hillary Clinton, in the article's second picture?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
aloges
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:57 pm

So... are they trying to become the preferred airline of these jerks?

Quote:
A Delta Airlines flight from New York's JFK Airport to Israel was delayed by half an hour when a group of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men refused to sit next to female passengers.

Delta Flight 468, bound for Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport, was reportedly held up due to several Haredi passengers refusing to to sit in their assigned seats, which were in between two women.

The delay was prolonged when the two female passengers involved reportedly refused to move to accommodate the men's request, claiming discrimination.

Could be me, but I don't see that happening...

[Edited 2015-01-02 10:58:34]
Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened.
 
victrola
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:58 pm

I can't imagine anyone will be joining the Mile High Club on Saudi anytime soon.
 
cschleic
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 6:58 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):
Sidebar: is that Hillary Clinton, in the article's second picture?

No, and....what's the point of that question?
 
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winterlight
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:20 pm

Truly archaic.


.
Question everything. Trust no-one.
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:25 pm

Not sure what the big deal is.
If you don't like it, don't fly 'em?

El Al doesn't fly on certain days, that's how they roll. What's the big deal?

Don't like it, fly someone else.
 
RJNUT
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:26 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):
Sidebar: is that Hillary Clinton, in the article's second picture?




no, but i can see a resamblance... good catch!
 
29erUSA187
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:26 pm

Could this breach US discrimination laws? I wonder if this will end up getting Saudia the boot out of the USA
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:37 pm

There's Muslims, and then there's the Saudis. A good 20% of the latter are Salafists, and I can see them not wanting other men to sit next to their wives. The problem as I see it is that you can't live in a bubble. Yes, you can have your differences in-country, but an attempt to operate according to "international norms" should be made by SV inflight. That includes a lack of segregation according to gender for the purpose of assigning seats. Including a prayer area on the plane is very smart, however, as it reminds passengers of the need to pray and do what is expected of them as Muslims. That may result in better passenger behavior.
 
toobz
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:41 pm

Wow..I seriously hope DL takes a serious look at this.
Absolutely absurd. That part of the world will never catch up to modern times. ever.
 
turbineseaplane
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:41 pm

Welcome to the stone age
Sheesh
 
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moo
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 12):
Could this breach US discrimination laws?

If blocking gay marriage doesn't, how would this?

Interesting how discrimination laws are selectively applied...
 
32andBelow
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:45 pm

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 10):
El Al doesn't fly on certain days, that's how they roll. What's the big deal?

That's not discriminating. You don't have to fly 7X/week.
 
PanAm1971
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 7:54 pm

Quoting Fallap (Reply 2):
Now we just need the "their country their rules " crowd and the party can commence.

I'll do it for you-Their country, their rules. Saudi is a sovereign nation.

However, that same logic applies our nations. Our nations our rules. If the Saudi's don't like it they can fly somewhere else. In this case it seems to me that restrictions on Saudi Arabian Airlines access would be perfectly in order.
 
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LAX772LR
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:03 pm

Quoting cschleic (Reply 8):
No, and....what's the point of that question?

To ask why and/or for what reason she would've been traveling on them-- duhhhh.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
fly_yhm
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:07 pm

So wait a second.
Why don't they just have two segregated flights per destination served, so for example they have one daily into
such and such airport why not have two, one for
men and one for women. better yet have two segregated airlines Saudi Airlines Male and Saudi Airlines Female.
Heck build two segregated airports a male airport and a female airport.
Where will you spend eternity? He,s more real then you think!!!!!
 
jetblue1965
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:13 pm

Saudia, proud partner of Delta and member of Skyteam
 
BigOrange
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:15 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 6):
So... are they trying to become the preferred airline of these jerks?

Quote:
A Delta Airlines flight from New York's JFK Airport to Israel was delayed by half an hour when a group of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men refused to sit next to female passengers.

Delta Flight 468, bound for Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport, was reportedly held up due to several Haredi passengers refusing to to sit in their assigned seats, which were in between two women.

The delay was prolonged when the two female passengers involved reportedly refused to move to accommodate the men's request, claiming discrimination.

Could be me, but I don't see that happening...

I doubt Saudia will ever be a preferred airline for jews, but maybe El Al should start doing that then Delta passengers wouldn't be inconvenienced and delayed by these a**holes
 
max999
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:24 pm

Quoting aloges (Reply 6):

So... are they trying to become the preferred airline of these jerks?

Quote:
A Delta Airlines flight from New York's JFK Airport to Israel was delayed by half an hour when a group of ultra-Orthodox Jewish men refused to sit next to female passengers.

Delta Flight 468, bound for Tel Aviv's Ben Gurion Airport, was reportedly held up due to several Haredi passengers refusing to to sit in their assigned seats, which were in between two women.

The delay was prolonged when the two female passengers involved reportedly refused to move to accommodate the men's request, claiming discrimination.

Could be me, but I don't see that happening...

The scary thing is that the religious political parties in Israel have become much more powerful in the past 10 or so years. Religious zealots are similar everywhere...if left unchecked, Israel can turn into a theocracy. Israel must maintain its open and democratic society so it can stand out from the craziness of some of their Middle Eastern neighbors. This includes keeping the national airline free of gender discrimination.
All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
 
SelseyBill
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:36 pm

Quoting fly_yhm (Reply 20):
Why don't they just have two segregated flights per destination served, so for example they have one daily into
such and such airport why not have two, one for
men and one for women. better yet have two segregated airlines Saudi Airlines Male and Saudi Airlines Female.
Heck build two segregated airports a male airport and a female airport.

..........or; a fleet of A380's; top deck for women, bottom deck for men.

(Stands back and lights blue touchpaper).

I know a very nice man in Toulouse who would give them a good price on.............
 
BlatantEcho
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:50 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 17):
That's not discriminating. You don't have to fly 7X/week.

Right. You don't have to sit next to the other sex when flying either.


Unless the seats for women are inferior to the male ones.... who cares again and why?
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:51 pm

Quoting catiii (Thread starter):
This is going to be a fascinating development for SkyTeam, especially Delta, who was criticized so vehemently when they allowed Saudi to enter the alliance. Delta said then that it "does not discriminate nor do we condone discrimination against any of our customers in regards to age, race, nationality, religion or gender." Not sure how Delta is going to continue to justify doing business with an alliance carrier who does discriminate based on both gender and religion.

To the OP: This isn't about Delta - really, it isn't. The 'associated with this kind of behavior' argument doesn't hold. Do you boycott French - and UK, and US - banks that provide services to the Saudi royal family or to agencies of the kingdom? Are you cutting up a Citibank Visa card right now?
 
ORDJOE
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:54 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 21):

Saudia, proud partner of Delta and member of Skyteam

LOL, yeah just another member of the motley bunch of airlines that make up the skyteam alliance. (Que up those who will argue that skyteam is the premiere alliance)

I will say this, people are free to take this airline or chose another. Whether this violates laws of the US is another question, but yes once an aircraft enters US airspace then it should be operating within US rule (Or which ever country it is for that matter0

To be honest though, if it were cheap enough of an airfare vs others for the same route I probably would still go for it. The no alcohol rule is more of a downer for me.
 
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Miami
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 8:58 pm

Is this some sort of joke? What kinda of dumb idea is this?

I guess we're going back in time!
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
hooverman
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:00 pm

Quoting jetblue1965 (Reply 21):
Saudia, proud partner of Delta and member of Skyteam

Never unstood why they where invited to join Skyteam.

Quoting BlatantEcho (Reply 10):
Don't like it, fly someone else.

I will avoid them at any cost.
 
catiii
Topic Author
Posts: 3683
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 1:18 am

RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:02 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 25):
To the OP: This isn't about Delta - really, it isn't. The 'associated with this kind of behavior' argument doesn't hold. Do you boycott French - and UK, and US - banks that provide services to the Saudi royal family or to agencies of the kingdom? Are you cutting up a Citibank Visa card right now?

I do my business through my credit union, so that doesn't really matter to me, but Delta already went through the wringer a few years back because of their association with Saudi after the dustup regarding American Jews flying on their aircraft. Saudi is now segregating passengers based on gender. It does beg the question, given the statements they made at the time about disctimination, why they would want to be associated with this airline? Is the negligible feed and marketing opportunity really worth aligning your carrier and brand with a partner who is as blatantly discriminatory in its policies as Saudi is?
 
aircatalonia
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:02 pm

I don't think it's such a big deal. After all, men and women also have separate compartments on boats and separate rooms at hostels. I don't see how a long haul cabin should be any different from a ferry compartment, most people use it to sleep anyway.

And as others have said, if you don't like them just don't fly them.
 
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DocLightning
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:03 pm

Quoting Fallap (Reply 2):
Now we just need the "their country their rules " crowd and the party can commence.
Quoting Byrdluvs747 (Reply 3):
Because the "their country our rules" crowd is already here.

It's not their country if they're flying internationally.
-Doc Lightning-

"The sky calls to us. If we do not destroy ourselves, we will one day venture to the stars."
-Carl Sagan
 
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Miami
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:05 pm

Quoting Hooverman (Reply 28):
I will avoid them at any cost.

Agreed. And I actually like Saudi.
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
bastew
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:08 pm

I'm confused by the article - it says the gender segregation is the result of local men not wanting unrelated men to be seated next to their wives. OK, fine.

We have similar issues on TLV flights all the time. Ultra orthodox jews do not want to be seated next to a woman in case they might be menstruating etc etc. It's usually something we can accommodate on the day without the need for a 'policy'.

What troubles me with the saudi case though is what if you are two western colleagues or friends, one male and one female very much WANTING to sit together. Does this rule mean you will not be ALLOWED to sit together? If that's the case then it's crazy.
 
Capt.Fantastic
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:09 pm

This is not discrimination. Delta or SkyTeam couldn't care less about these seating arrangements.
If you don't agree with certain customs or religious practices, then just leave it at that: There's no need to mock it. It's quite disappointing to see that level of immaturity on this thread.
 
Mortyman
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:14 pm

Ladies to the left, gentlemen to the right in the cabin please ...
 
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jsnww81
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:16 pm

Nothing like using 21st-century technology while applying seventh-century rules to passengers. If they were as pious as they claim to be, you'd think they'd at least be consistent.
 
Capt.Fantastic
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:17 pm

Quoting bastew (Reply 33):
What troubles me with the saudi case though is what if you are two western colleagues or friends, one male and one female very much WANTING to sit together. Does this rule mean you will not be ALLOWED to sit together? If that's the case then it's crazy.


If that's the case, they should've flown another airline
 
Natflyer
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:28 pm

Well its the year 1436 (AH) in the Kingdom (KSA), so they're still in the middle ages. Personally I hope I will never have to go back there.
 
FCAFLYBOY
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:35 pm

What next, Sharia Law onboard?! Hope everyone avoids them like the plague, this sort of mentality has no place in the modern world.

Yawn
 
LJ
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:39 pm

Quoting Hooverman (Reply 28):
Never unstood why they where invited to join Skyteam.

Why do you think? It fitted perfectly in AF/KLs strategy to get a grip of the oil traffic.

BTW I wonder if this policy would cost SV a star in Skytrax's ranking (they're currently a 4-star airline). Though on the
 
stylo777
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:43 pm

unbelievable on which (low) level some posts really are. as discriminating as this airline specific rule might sound, I think the comments here are more discriminating and irritating. nevertheless, it is your personal opinion which we all respect. I truly believe you'll also respect the airline in question to apply an operational related procedure to their daily flights in return. if they experienced so many issues, than yes, please go ahead and apply this procedure on your flights if it helps. everybody is free to chose their preferred airline. some women would want to select ANA as their preferred airline for their women-only lavatories onboard or others would go for example with TK/EK/EY/QR because of their Halal (muslim) food selection or solely the American carriers for strictly "adhering to non-discriminating" procedures and and and... this list can go on and on and on...
fact is, beliefs differ and no one should look at it from his/her-centric view. accepting this cultural-driven change in procedure would in my opinion even be a step forward for opening up and getting rid of all this discrimination BS.
 
turbineseaplane
Posts: 110
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 8:14 pm

RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:47 pm

Some things in life are right vs wrong.

I don't care what religions say about this sort of thing. Religions have stuff wrong *all* the time.

Gender discrimination is simply wrong behavior and has no place in modern society.
 
DavidByrne
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:48 pm

Am I missing something here? I travelled on Saudia (as was) in the late 1980s Rome-Riyadh and then Riyadh-Dhahran. I especially remember that on the A300 RUH-DHA (pretty much full) we were clearly segregated already - there did not appear to be any men sitting next to any women. I was in a seat adjacent to the window seat, and there were women in the central section of the same row, but nowhere could I see men and women sitting together. Maybe what they are proposing now is to block off whole sections of the aircraft?
This is not my beautiful house . . . This is not my beautiful wife
 
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CARST
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:33 pm

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 41):
unbelievable on which (low) level some posts really are. as discriminating as this airline specific rule might sound, I think the comments here are more discriminating and irritating. nevertheless, it is your personal opinion which we all respect. I truly believe you'll also respect the airline in question to apply an operational related procedure to their daily flights in return. if they experienced so many issues, than yes, please go ahead and apply this procedure on your flights if it helps. everybody is free to chose their preferred airline. some women would want to select ANA as their preferred airline for their women-only lavatories onboard or others would go for example with TK/EK/EY/QR because of their Halal (muslim) food selection or solely the American carriers for strictly "adhering to non-discriminating" procedures and and and... this list can go on and on and on...
fact is, beliefs differ and no one should look at it from his/her-centric view. accepting this cultural-driven change in procedure would in my opinion even be a step forward for opening up and getting rid of all this discrimination BS.

If religion forces discrimination, the relgion is wrong. It doesn't matter if we talk about muslims, christians, jews, buddhists or any other religion out there. There is NO right to discriminate, whatever you believe in or which god you believe in.

We tend to accept such decisions today because of our high level of political correctness, that forces us to condemn these, but also accept them. But I ask those promoting this political correctness, what do the victims of such discriminations think about such rules, do these victims find these rules to be "correct"? I don't think so...
 
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seabosdca
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:36 pm

Quoting stylo777 (Reply 41):
everybody is free to chose their preferred airline.

Everyone is also free to choose where to travel, and I have no interest in traveling to KSA as long as they impose rules like this on their citizens and visitors.

Quoting CARST (Reply 44):
There is NO right to discriminate, whatever you believe in or which god you believe in.

I wish it were that simple. Unfortunately, it's not. But I'm not going to pretend I'm okay with such discrimination just for the sake of sounding "tolerant" of the powers that be in KSA, or that aspect of the culture there.
 
syncmaster
Posts: 1926
Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2002 9:55 am

RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:53 pm

Has something changed from this statement that Delta issued previously?

"Delta does not operate service to Saudi Arabia and does not codeshare with any airline on flights to that country. Delta does not intend to codeshare or share reciprocal benefits, such as frequent flier benefits, with Saudi Arabian Airlines, which we have confirmed with SkyTeam, an Amsterdam-based 14-member global airline alliance.

Delta’s only agreement with Saudi Arabian Airlines is a standard industry interline agreement, which allows passengers to book tickets on multiple carriers, similar to the standard interline agreements American Airlines, US Airways and Alaska Airlines have with Saudi Arabian Airlines."

Link: http://news.delta.com/index.php?s=20295&item=123731
 
TC957
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:57 pm

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 23):
or; a fleet of A380's; top deck for women, bottom deck for men.

Good one ! You might just be on to something here ! Would certainly solve the segregation issues!
But seriously, if SV wants to play in the big wide world of Skyteam then they should keep these draconian laws within their own borders at home.
 
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SOBHI51
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:58 pm

If some of you took some time to read the article, then they would have understood that such decision was taken on the request of the Saudi men upon there complaints.

Also we should understand that the way of living in Saudi is on the conservative side, women have there own entrance to the houses, there own side in restaurants called family side, husbands can also be in that section if with there wives or daughters, no single men are allowed there. If there is a dinner party at a house women will be in one side so are men, lso weddings are separated usually women weddings lasts till dawn and spread over few days, while the men wedding parties will last if lucky 3 hours and one night only.


It's there way of living, nothing to do with religion or politics and Saudi Airlines (Saudia) is trying to satisfy there passengers.
I am against any terrorist acts committed under the name of Islam
 
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Aesma
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RE: Saudi Airlines Introduces Gender Segregation

Fri Jan 02, 2015 11:00 pm

Quoting Capt.Fantastic (Reply 34):
This is not discrimination. Delta or SkyTeam couldn't care less about these seating arrangements.
If you don't agree with certain customs or religious practices, then just leave it at that: There's no need to mock it. It's quite disappointing to see that level of immaturity on this thread.

To each their opinion. Mocking their rules is fine, personally I prefer to denounce them. Of course if you do that in their country, you'll get in trouble, do you agree with that too ?
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