aemke
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UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Fri Jan 02, 2015 9:59 pm

United to start mainline service on March 5, MSN-ORD operated with A319. Seems like a lot of airplane for that route. I would have thought they would have began with E170 and maybe put an airbus to IAH. They could definitely use the airbus on routes out of MKE. Seems like a waste. Thoughts?
 
RJNUT
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RE: UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:21 pm

it will help bring some schedule integrity, as the regionals on the route are 1st to get the axe in ATC holds!
 
MIflyer12
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RE: UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:51 pm

That sounds like a perfect city pair for frequency reduction and upgauging to mainline. Nobody (sane) is flying to ORD for a trip to Chicago; it's 135 miles. The route exists for connections, and the early-March Monday run of 7x ERJ/CRJ and 1x CR7 may be more frequencies than needed. With 2x319 in the schedule (using Monday, 3/9), UA's flight count goes to seven.
 
COSPN
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RE: UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Fri Jan 02, 2015 10:58 pm

IND-ORD will also get the 319 2x a day IND and MSN are growing ( not sure why) and it just make sense to run some mainline for the Conection passenger to International flight or other business destinations .
 
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usxguy
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RE: UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:57 am

United used to fly 737s and BAe 146's on this route, so an A319 isn't overly surprising
xx
 
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Web500sjc
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RE: UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Sat Jan 03, 2015 1:03 am

Quoting COSPN (Reply 3):
IND-ORD will also get the 319 2x a day IND and MSN are growing ( not sure why) and it just make sense to run some mainline for the Conection passenger to International flight or other business destinations .

Didn't DL's CEO mention that they see passengers may be booking away from regional jets? I noticed that Delta provides mainline service to MSP, so I wouldn't call Mainline service in this day of age out of the ordinary...
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IADLHR
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RE: UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:09 am

Quoting RJNUT (Reply 1):
it will help bring some schedule integrity, as the regionals on the route are 1st to get the axe in ATC holds!
Quoting COSPN (Reply 3):
IND-ORD will also get the 319 2x a day IND and MSN are growing ( not sure why) and it just make sense to run some mainline for the Conection passenger to International flight or other business destination

A long time friend of mine works at the University of Wisconsin and he travels to London a couple of times a year. He has had some really, really close calls on ORD connections but always managed to barely make the connection. He knows of some people who were not so lucky on more than one occasion. There was some talk that they might try another routing than deal with ORD. Maybe this is in response to that kind of discontent shall we say. There is a lot of travel generated by the University of Wisconsin.
 
COSPN
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RE: UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:10 am

DL is also kicking UAs butt in IND its just hard to run 10 RJ flights to ORD everyday and there is lots of lost revenue when things go wrong .WN is now the biggest carrier in IND then DL and New AA. IND-SFO is doing well full most every day
 
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knope2001
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RE: UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:12 am

Couple of comments:

1. With ORD banks being tightened up, it makes sense to feed those bank with larger planes. If there are 60 ORD departures between 8 and 11 AM, if they spread out maybe it makes sense for Madison to have an E70 and a CRJ arriving to feed them at 715 and 915. If most of those 60 ORD departures are clustered to leave O'Hare between 8:45 and 9:30 it makes better sense to have an A319 arriving from Madison at 8:00..

2. If you look at it from the departing airport's perspective it perhaps makes more sense. If you're a business traveler heading out of Indy in the morning there are mainline flights on several airlines to several hubs, but on United it's a little RJ to United's largest hub.

3. The added capacity isn't necessarily growth because frequencies are being cut. Here's comparing a Thursday in mid-February versus a Thursday in mid-April:

ORD-IND
February -- 10 flights
5 E70 + 5 ERJ = 600 seats

April -- 8 flights
2 A319 + 2 E70 + 4 ERJ = 580 seats


ORD-MSN
February -- 8 flights
2 E70 + 6 ERJ = 440 seats

March -- 7 flights
1 A319 + 6 ERJ = 420 seats


I think if you dig into the March you may find times when there's some net seat gain, but it's not huge because of the offsetting capacity reduction.
 
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knope2001
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RE: UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Sat Jan 03, 2015 3:55 am

I looked farther into summer and both ORD-IND and ORD-MSN do not show a frequency cut compared to the February all-RJ schedule. However note that United tends to push forward a "base" schedule one year out and then adjust as needed a few months out. Enilria's OAG threads often show this, and it wouldn't be a surprise to see that happen here given the aircraft upgrades. If they don't then it would be a notable capacity bump, but I don't think we can be too sure about that until 3-4 months out.
 
COSPN
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RE: UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Sat Jan 03, 2015 12:07 pm

Thanks for the breakdown Knope . I think if you ask any reasonable person how to move 600 people between IND and ORD they would inquire about bigger planes and not say "let's use 10 RJs"
 
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NWAESC
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RE: UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Sat Jan 03, 2015 2:17 pm

Lots of good points already noted.

Another thing to keep in mind isis that with the latest T/A's, UA does not have to staff a station with M/L employees when regularly flying M/L equipment in. That's obviously just one factor out of many, but it does give them the flexibility to (re)start routes in places like MSN.
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Rdh3e
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RE: UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:45 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 10):
Thanks for the breakdown Knope . I think if you ask any reasonable person how to move 600 people between IND and ORD they would inquire about bigger planes and not say "let's use 10 RJs"

To be fair, the question is a bit more nuanced. It's more like how do you move 600 people between IND and ORD that want to leave at different times, say:

125 between 7-9am
50 between 930-1030
90 at noon

etc etc

Because demand fluctuates during the day, that is what drives them to say 1 or 2 trips with heavy demands should be a larger plane, but maybe not all of them need to be.
 
alfa164
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RE: UA Starting Mainline MSN-ORD

Sat Jan 03, 2015 4:49 pm

United still has mainline aircraft?

  
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