29erUSA187
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BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:25 am

Hello All,
I was just playing around with the BA timetables feature on their website, and noticed that BA192/193 is scheduled as a 777 for next summer. I find this a bit surprising, and I also assume that it will be a 77W instead of a 772.

Can anyone shed some light on this?
 
TXspotter
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RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:53 am

I saw that on AA.com. Fwiw it listed "777" not "77W". The AA.com website makes the distinction for AA planes. So I'm inclined to believe it will be a 777-200ER not a 77W.

Also I saw in British Airways' website say "A388" for LHR-IAH on April 20-30th 2015. But that's when I searched about two months ago. Since then it has listed regular aircraft.
 
LAXdude1023
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RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:06 am

Yep, DFW-LHR is going 777.

I don't see the 380 on IAH-LHR though. I searched the GDS.
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    FlyCaledonian
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    RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

    Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:55 am

    Could this be an impact of the AA/US merger, with AA/BA adjusting demand on LHR-DFW due to the twice daily LHR-CLT? I'd imagine a number of connection opportunities might be better served through CLT vice DFW, and with TATL flying being metal neutral under the joint venture the fact BA doesn't fly LHR-CLT isn't an issue here.
    Let's Go British Caledonian!
     
    LAXdude1023
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    RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

    Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:00 am

    Quoting FlyCaledonian (Reply 3):
    Could this be an impact of the AA/US merger, with AA/BA adjusting demand on LHR-DFW due to the twice daily LHR-CLT? I'd imagine a number of connection opportunities might be better served through CLT vice DFW, and with TATL flying being metal neutral under the joint venture the fact BA doesn't fly LHR-CLT isn't an issue here.

    I think it doesn't have anything to do with CLT. I think it has more to do with the flood of service from the ME3. We in the DFW market knew there would be a reduction from somewhere, but I don't think any of us expected BA.

    Then again, there are still 4 daily flights between AA and BA.
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      777222LR
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      RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

      Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:01 am

      Has AA increased capacity on DFW-LHR? It's been a while since the LHR-DFW flight was a 777. I actually flew on the first 777 scheduled flight into DFW with BA back in 1998.
       
      nomorerjs
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      RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

      Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:45 am

      We go from a BA380 thread about potential at DFW to a doem gauge to a 777. I would not be shocked if this is KL's last summer at DFW. The ME3, while attacking each other, are impacting TATL connections. If BA is hurting, KL and LH are probably impacted more.
       
      Sooner787
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      RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

      Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:17 am

      If we lose the BA 744 service at DFW, here's hoping they switch to the 77W.

        
       
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      TWA772LR
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      RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

      Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:18 am

      Quoting nomorerjs (Reply 6):
      If BA is hurting, KL and LH are probably impacted more.

      I see KLM folding first in DFW, then LH in 2016. BA has a JV with AA so I actually see one of their flights being upgauged to A380 relatively soon.

      How does the large-ish DL frequent flier base affect KLs DFW operation?
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      29erUSA187
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      RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

      Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:21 am

      Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 7):
      If we lose the BA 744 service at DFW,

      I sure hope not. As someone in SAN who loves the 744, its one of the Last places we can connect to on BA/AA to get on a 744. I think PHX is the only other one they offer on the website booking.
       
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      zululima
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      RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

      Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:07 am

      Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 8):
      I see KLM folding first in DFW, then LH in 2016. BA has a JV with AA so I actually see one of their flights being upgauged to A380 relatively soon.

      As usual, none of your prognostications has any basis in reality.

      KLM has been assumed to be dead in DFW for years now, and yet they maintain good load factors. This is a summer-only (read: higher demand/fare) flight and they have already trimmed it to where it is profitable.

      Lufthansa was here long before the ME3 and has sufficient demand outside of US-India connections to make the route work. No one will back-track to Europe from the gulf.

      BA just don't need to send an A380 here. If they had more than 12, then maybe, but there are bigger fish to fry. The JV with American is why they can get by with any type they wish to send over, as frequency trumps capacity. Assuming they do go 777 this summer, it wouldn't be difficult to believe that it had nothing to do with the ME3, as AA and BA shift capacity on the route constantly based on their own internal demands.
      I didn't get a 'Harumph' outta that guy!
       
      LAXdude1023
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      RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

      Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:45 am

      Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 8):
      I see KLM folding first in DFW, then LH in 2016.

      KL and LH are not both going to leave the market. There is no significant market between DFW and AMS, but there is between DFW and FRA. LH has that to hold onto at the very least.
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        jetwet1
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:10 am

        Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 9):
        I sure hope not. As someone in SAN who loves the 744, its one of the Last places we can connect to on BA/AA to get on a 744. I think PHX is the only other one they offer on the website booking.

        Don't forget Vegas BA274 is a 744
         
        Bongodog1964
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:01 pm

        How much traffic has the BA LHR-AUS taken away from LHR-DFW ? This could be the reason for the downsize of the aircraft.
         
        attyavgeek
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:31 pm

        I worked for BA when they transitioned from the DC-10 to the 777 at DFW airport. For a period of time in 1998, they used the 747-400 as there weren't enough crews trained on the 777 at the time. At that time this was a Gatwick flight. Anyway, taking the 747-400 away from DFW would suck, as its the only pax 747-400 left at DFW, if I am not mistaken. I do not think the BA A380 is ever coming to DFW. I don't think the route can sustain it.
         
        adamspotter
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 12:51 pm

        Quoting zululima (Reply 10):
        KLM has been assumed to be dead in DFW for years now, and yet they maintain good load factors. This is a summer-only (read: higher demand/fare) flight and they have already trimmed it to where it is profitable.

           Exactly! I'm pretty sure KLM will be back next summer  
         
        AWACSooner
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:57 pm

        Glad I'm booked on the flight when it's a 744 in late March...
         
        us330
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:32 pm

        Quoting attyavgeek (Reply 14):
        I do not think the BA A380 is ever coming to DFW. I don't think the route can sustain it

        It's not a route that requires it--at least, not until AA is maxed out, capacity wise, on its multiple daily DFW-LHR flights, and BA no longer has any spare 744 capacity.
         
        blueflyer
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:13 pm

        Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 8):
        I see KLM folding first in DFW, then LH in 2016.

        Lufthansa seems to be doing just fine upfront where most of the revenue comes from. I haven't noticed any more empty seats or lower prices, at least so until Etihad showed up. I have yet to find out whether things have changed since, but if Emirates or Qatar didn't make a difference, I doubt the last one did.

        On a purely anecdotal basis, the arrival of the ME3 in town doesn't mean less Lufthansa, it means no more short hop to IAH to connect.
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        dfwjim1
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:16 pm

        I was thinking the same thing the over day that perhaps the BA AUS-LHR has taken business away from the BA DFW flight.
         
        Sooner787
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 4:55 pm

        Quoting dfwjim1 (Reply 19):
        I was thinking the same thing the over day that perhaps the BA AUS-LHR has taken business away from the BA DFW flight

        Our BA said during his last office visit that the 787 service out of AUS
        has been very popular, with some DFW travelers opting for that flight
        so they can try out the 787.

        Also, our UA rep said they were putting a 787 back on the IAH - LHR route
        cause BA was siphoning customers away with their AUS 787's
         
        29erUSA187
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:04 pm

        Quoting AWACSooner (Reply 16):

        I checked the dates. March 28 is the last 747. Hopefully it comes back soon, as 747's are always fun to see
         
        SonomaFlyer
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:12 pm

        The ME 3 are taking loads of connecting passengers to Asia away from the Euro legacies. This is the clearest example yet of the effect of all that spare capacity for Asian connections being brought to DFW.
         
        vv701
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:12 pm

        Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 20):
        Our BA said during his last office visit that the 787 service out of AUS has been very popular, with some DFW travelers opting for that flight so they can try out the 787.

        This could explain why having loaded the systems in mid October on with a 3-class 772 replacing the current 787-8 on their AUS flight from the start of Winter Season 2015-16, BA reinstated the 787-8 in early December. But who knows, it may change again.
         
        jumpjets
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:17 pm

        Could it just be that as BA retire more of the 744s there are less to go around and so routes previously served by that aircraft will slowly but surely be experiencing 772/77Ws [not to mention 789,7810 and 3510 in the future] instead.

        I guess those routes which have less overall need for a 744 will lose them sooner rather than later - and given the BA/AA JV and the flexibility it gives them maybe DFW is one of the routes that could stand losing it sooner.
         
        AmericanHeavy
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:37 pm

        Seat map for my flight in May shows it as a 77W 

        Sure am going to miss seeing the queen around DFW
         
        AWACSooner
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 5:48 pm

        Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 21):
        I checked the dates. March 28 is the last 747. Hopefully it comes back soon, as 747's are always fun to see

        Myself, my wife and my daughter are on the March 26th flight...sweet!
         
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        kann123air
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Sun Jan 04, 2015 6:03 pm

        Quoting AmericanHeavy (Reply 25):
        Sure am going to miss seeing the queen around DFW

        Absolutely. There's nothing like walking up to D14 and seeing that BA queen parked there.
        Going for great
         
        usairways85
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:01 am

        It's changing to a 77W
         
        Bongodog1964
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:29 am

        Quoting SonomaFlyer (Reply 22):

        The ME 3 are taking loads of connecting passengers to Asia away from the Euro legacies. This is the clearest example yet of the effect of all that spare capacity for Asian connections being brought to DFW.

        Probably nothing to do with the ME3 and everything to do with BA now serving AUS daily thats only about 190 miles from DFW
        Additionally as the BA 744 fleet reduces it make sense to concentrate them on the US East Coast routes where they don't use so much fuel and use the more fuel efficient planes on the longer hauls
         
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        gdg9
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:20 pm

        Quoting zululima (Reply 10):

        KLM has been assumed to be dead in DFW for years now, and yet they maintain good load factors

        I've been guilty of thinking that in the past, and they keep coming back. LFs seemed good this year too.

        Quoting zululima (Reply 10):
        Lufthansa was here long before the ME3 and has sufficient demand outside of US-India connections to make the route work

        Truth.

        Right now I see 777 on the route from March 20-October 24. 744 is listed coming back on Oct 25
        @dfwtower
         
        LAXdude1023
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        RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

        Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:22 pm

        Ok, just looked into this further.

        It is going to a 77W, not a 772. This makes it only a downgrade in the number of seats in business (70 to 56). Its the same number of seats in economy and first, and its an upgrade in capacity in World Traveler Plus.

        This is actually a good deal for DFW. The 77W is a nicer aircraft and much newer.
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          Sooner787
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          RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

          Mon Jan 05, 2015 4:33 pm

          Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 31):
          This is actually a good deal for DFW. The 77W is a nicer aircraft and much newer.

          ....plus BA's 77W's are perhaps the nicest looking liveries around
           
          Beatyair
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          RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

          Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:14 am

          Dallas is a great place, but I can't see a mass amount of Brits coming to Dallas. It is not a high population area
          (like the Asian Market) or a great tourist destination. So the B777-200 should do just fine. I really think the A380 has limited opportunities for an airline.
           
          ipodguy7
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          RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

          Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:20 am

          Quoting Beatyair (Reply 33):
          It is not a high population area
          (like the Asian Market) or a great tourist destination.

          ~7 Million people plus the largest AA hub isn't big enough? DFW is the 4th biggest metro in the US, not sure what you're on about here. This route is essential to Business pax as it links the Finance hub of the Southwest/South (Dallas) with the world's #1/#2 Finance hub, (depending on which ranking you see) London.

          USA Metro Rankings

          [Edited 2015-01-05 22:27:53]
          AA/DL/NW/CO/UA/US/B6/AS/AC/FI/NY/EI/BD/BA/AF/AZ/DY/SK/QF/JQ/JL
           
          29erUSA187
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          RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

          Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:23 am

          Quoting Beatyair (Reply 33):

          I think it is super important for business pax and AA JV connectivity. Lots of people connect through DFW to hop on OW flights
           
          LAXdude1023
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          RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

          Tue Jan 06, 2015 2:29 pm

          Quoting Beatyair (Reply 33):
          So the B777-200 should do just fine.

          Its the 777-300

          Quoting Beatyair (Reply 33):
          It is not a high population area

          If Dallas were in Canada it would be the largest metro area in the country. Unless you also think Toronto is not a high population area. Granted, Toronto is much, much more international a city than Dallas but the remark you made was in regards to population size.
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            jfklganyc
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            RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

            Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:14 pm

            He is correct in that tourists are not flocking to DFW from anywhere

            Please stop ripping people apart when they tell you dallas doesnt share the stage with San Francisco or LA or Boston or Chicago. It doesnt.

            It is a business center and large mid continent hub with more than enough demand for a flight to London. Period. Dont compare it Tornoto or Montreal or Vancouver. Those are actual cities with large historical downtowns that tourists world over aspire to visit. Dallas Atlanta Charlotte etc are not. They are small modern downtowns surronded by America at its best...freeways and suburbia.
             
            superjeff
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            RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

            Tue Jan 06, 2015 4:34 pm

            Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 37):
            He is correct in that tourists are not flocking to DFW from anywhere

            Not relevant. Dallas is a business center, with a large population base that travels (and many in premium cabins). It is also American's largest hub. More than enough business to support the current 3 AA and 1 BA nonstops to LHR and the other international service to Europe on LH and KL. I would not be surprised to see other oneWorld airlines adding Dallas in the future (JAL to Tokyo, possibly Cathay Pacific to Hong Kong, and possibly Iberia to Barcelona or Madrid, for example).

            But BA can justify a 744, a 77W, or probably even a 388 on the LHR route if they want to run it there. Maybe Dallas is not as "cosmopolitan" a metropolis as a Toronto, Vancouver, New York, or Chicago, but it can hold its own on the business side.
             
            ThePinnacleKid
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            RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

            Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:04 pm

            Quoting superjeff (Reply 38):
            Not relevant. Dallas is a business center,

            Exactly! While it may not be a prime tourist location... or have a downtown that is historically luring... it IS a HUGE business center for the US. It ranks #4 on this list:

            http://www.debate.org/reference/citi...ing-the-most-fortune-500-companies

            and while it's wikipedia... it says DFW has over 10,000 corporate HQ's in the metroplex making it the largest concentration in the US...

            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._the_Dallas–Fort_Worth_metroplex

            [Edited 2015-01-06 09:06:55]
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            LAXdude1023
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            RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

            Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:10 pm

            Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 37):
            It is a business center and large mid continent hub with more than enough demand for a flight to London. Period. Dont compare it Tornoto or Montreal or Vancouver. Those are actual cities with large historical downtowns that tourists world over aspire to visit. Dallas Atlanta Charlotte etc are not. They are small modern downtowns surronded by America at its best...freeways and suburbia.

            I compared it to Toronto because the poster in question that said Dallas wasnt a large population center was in Canada. To put it in perspective for him, I used Toronto as an example. The DFW area is larger than Greater Toronto by population. Thats it. I didnt say DFW was more of a tourist city or had more tourist draw or was more international. On the contrary, I made the point that Toronto was much more of those things.

            But you can never lump Dallas, Atlanta, and Houston with Charlotte. Ever. Those cities are far larger and far more diverse.

            Dallas is a business center and an immigrant center (for the VFR). Its not a tourist center. No one ever disputed that.
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              crAAzy
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              RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

              Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:51 pm

              1. BA's LHR-DFW 747 service is very popular and comments from flight crew indicate that it's usually a very full flight and BA uses the high J configured 747.

              2. As mentioned above, the correct aircraft for the route is a 77W with four classes of service.

              3. The net difference in seats between the high J 747 and the 77W is ZERO - both with 299 total seats.

              4. Remember the net capacity over the summertime increases when AA ups from 2x 777 / 1x 763 to 1x 77W / 2x 777.

              Personally, I doubt BA will be running the A380 this year but it's going to be interesting to see what AA and BA decide to do next summer (2016) once all of AA's 777s are reconfigured. If AA decides to keep 3 x daily service with 3 x 77W that will be another significant increase in capacity on the route. Even if they decided to run some variation of the 77W with the new 777 and no F on a flight or two it will still be an increase in capacity. However, it would not be outside the realm of possibility to see AA 2 x 77W and BA 1 x A380 on the route.
               
              COflyerBOS
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              RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

              Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:03 am

              I love it when someone from the Coasts pipes in to keep the midlanders in their place.

              By the way, the only person who'd be bored by a trip to Dallas or think there'd be nothing to see is one who isn't too cultured. EVERY city has something to offer if you OPEN YOUR MIND.
               
              attyavgeek
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              RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

              Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:43 am

              Quoting Beatyair (Reply 33):

              Dallas is a great place, but I can't see a mass amount of Brits coming to Dallas. It is not a high population area
              (like the Asian Market) or a great tourist destination. So the B777-200 should do just fine.

              Its clear from this statement that you have never been to the DFW area and have no understanding of the companies that call DFW home. DFW is the silicon valley of the south. Its home to hundreds of tech companies, two airlines, numerous energy companies, etc. I know this because I represent a bunch of these companies in my law practice. BA is not just bringing the tourist to DFW, its carrying a ton of European business traffic to DFW, and beyond. I worked for BA in 1998-99, and we used to see tons of energy (oil) related traffic on BA. I'm sure EK, EY and QR have taken some of that traffic away, but there still is enough traffic for BA to sustain a 77W.
               
              vv701
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              RE: BA192 DFW-LHR Becoming 777?

              Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:44 am

              Quoting jumpjets (Reply 24):
              Could it just be that as BA retire more of the 744s there are less to go around

              If you look at the longer long-haul BA flights that were once operated by 744s and even 772s, many are now seeing the more fuel efficient 380 or 77W . They include HKG, JNB, LAX, NRT, PVG, SIN and SYD. This suggests that BA are replacing last generation, fuel thirsty aircraft with fuel efficient new generation aircraft where the total $ value of fuel saved, whether that value is based on $50 or $100+ oil, is highest. And I guess that LHR-DFW can well be classified as a longer long-haul BA flight.

              It is worth noting that there is often flexibility in operations on these routes. For example the LHR-PEK (BA038) flight falls into the longer long-haul category. This flight is still usually operated by a 772. However in the month to 6 January it has been operated on seven occasions by a 77W. Other BA longer long-haul destinations that have recently seen a 77W flight on one or more occasions include GIG and SEA. This likely means that on what is usually a BA 77W route a 772 has sometimes been substituted. I wonder if this is why BA does not distinguish between the two types in its timetables.

              For obvious reasons the ad hoc substitution of a new generation, very large 380 for a less fuel efficient aircraft rarely if ever happens.

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