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KarelXWB
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QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:57 am

Qatar Airways will introduce a new business class seat with the A350-1000 in 2017. During the A350 inauguration ceremony todaty in Doha, QR said it will offer a "double bed" at business class fare. More details to follow.

Quote:
Qatar Airways CEO: all-new business class from 2016 will include "double bed at business class fare".
Quote:
Qatar Airways developing a new proprietary business class seat. A350-1000 will not have first class - only A380 will have first.
Quote:
Qatar Airways smiles and says it will offer a double bed at a business class price, in swipe at Etihad.

Source
http://www.qatarairways.com/global/e...ge?CID=SMALL0678502232000000001105
 
Armodeen
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:39 am

They need to concentrate on getting their older aircraft upgraded to the current business class product as seen on the 787, A380 & A350 rather than getting into a urinating contest with Etihad.
 
ba319-131
Posts: 8351
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:06 am

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 1):

- Totally agree, no consistency across the WB fleet.
 
migair54
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:20 am

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 1):
They need to concentrate on getting their older aircraft upgraded to the current business class product as seen on the 787, A380 & A350 rather than getting into a urinating contest with Etihad.

You are very right, even some A320 really need to be upgraded. Last time I took QR A320 in a 5:35 min flight I was surprise to see the old interior with no IFE and much worse seats than usual.

Are the A330 going to be there for many more years?? Because if that's the case I don't understand why they're not getting upgrade.

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
QR said it will offer a "double bed" at business class fare. More details to follow.

Interesting, Head to head with EY but cheaper, good for customers.

Only A380 will have First, I think they'll need more of them in the future. Otherwise I think they'll leave some very premium customers with no choice but to use other airlines if they want first class tickets.
 
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EK413
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:36 am

I've always questioned why carriers focus on rolling out new products well before the existing fleet haven't been refurbished with the current product offering... It's great keeping up with competitors but it's also wise move to have consistency in product offering...

EK413
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:44 am

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 1):
hey need to concentrate on getting their older aircraft upgraded

Yeah, QR have like five different J seats. Must be confusing for the average business class traveler, you don't really know what product you will get.
 
Armodeen
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 12:58 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 6):

Yeah, QR have like five different J seats. Must be confusing for the average business class traveler, you don't really know what product you will get.

QR are also famous for last minute equipment changes, which coupled with the inconsistent product means that even if you extensively do your homework you can still be taken by surprise and disappointed.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 3):
Are the A330 going to be there for many more years?? Because if that's the case I don't understand why they're not getting upgrade.

I understand the A333s are getting upgraded to the same layout as the 787s, not sure how they are getting along with that. The A332s I haven't heard about (I guess they will be leaving the fleet?)
 
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hilram
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 1:10 pm

Since we are all so happily bashing QR in this thread, please allow me to jump on the bandwagon!   Last time my family visited the Philippines, we flew OSL-DOH-MNL with Qatar. At the time the new Hamad International Airport was not yet opened. Neither my wife nor me could understand how Qatar can be a 5-star Airline on SkyTraxx. The whole travel was way below what we have experienced flying with I.E Cathay Pacific (CX). Especially between OSL and DOH, i suffered from non-functional IFE on a really worn down A330. To be fair to QR, the staff was really friendly and service-minded throughout. But I have second thoughts about flying QR now, after the connection between IS/ISIL and the government of Qatar has been exposed.         
 
LondonCity
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:21 pm

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 1):
They need to concentrate on getting their older aircraft upgraded to the current business class product as seen on the 787, A380 & A350 rather than getting into a urinating contest with Etihad.
Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
Yeah, QR have like five different J seats. Must be confusing for the average business class traveler, you don't really know what product you will get.

Business class passengers flying the DOH-LHR route probably experience most if not all the various J class seats offered by QR ...everything from the A319 to the A380.
 
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Miami
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:16 pm

They should consider butting at least first class on the 777X.

And a 'business class bedroom' seems a bit odd.

Quote:
“We will do it but provide it at a cheaper cost,” Al Baker said.

Well, good. Some products are just too expensive.
 
LondonCity
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:45 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 10):
And a 'business class bedroom' seems a bit odd.

Virgin Atlantic was talking about Upper Class double beds back in 1999 ... but it never happened.


http://www.theguardian.com/uk/1999/jun/08/keithharper
 
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Miami
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:54 pm

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 11):
Virgin Atlantic

But is it fair to compare VS with QR??
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2857
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 12):
But is it fair to compare VS with QR??

What do you mean fair? Virgin Atlantic used to be avantgarde, and QR wants to be the same. So yes, I'd say comparing them is allowed in this respect.
 
YouGeeElWhy
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:38 pm

Quoting Miami (Reply 10):
They should consider butting at least first class on the 777X.

Why, if the demand is not there. The trend has been to reduce true F capacity and enhance the J offering to something closer to F. Fractional private Jet offerings have eroded the business case for the amount of F capacity currently in the market. QR seems smart to follow those trends.

Quoting LondonCity (Reply 11):
Virgin Atlantic was talking about Upper Class double beds back in 1999 ... but it never happened.

I wonder QR will try to do something like the reverse herringbone on the outside, then a SQ style J seat in the middle.

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 5):
Yeah, QR have like five different J seats. Must be confusing for the average business class traveler, you don't really know what product you will get.

Maybe QR is the worst offender, but they are hardly the only one. Even with CX and SQ you can get stuck in a product regionally that is similar to the worst J seat offerings of QR. The only airline I can think of that offers a uniform seat experience is BA, but that seat leaves me wanting for more.
 
gabrielchew
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:13 pm

I agree that QR should at least rationalise the widebody fleet with a lie flat J seat. It's crazy that they've advanced onto the A380/787 J seat (which is quite good), whislt the 330/340 still have slopey seats. The 777s at least have lie flat. Seems like an odd thing to overlook. One things pax like is continuity.

Quoting YouGeeElWhy (Reply 14):
The only airline I can think of that offers a uniform seat experience is BA, but that seat leaves me wanting for more.

Well, BA is nearly all the same, except for the two A318s operating LCY-JFK. They have a different (but still lie flat) J seat.
 
aviationaware
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Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:36 pm

Quoting YouGeeElWhy (Reply 14):
Even with CX and SQ you can get stuck in a product regionally that is similar to the worst J seat offerings of QR.

True, but you usually know that beforehand. As has been noted, Qatar Airways is notorious for equipment changes. There has been some uproar in German frequent flyer forums a while back because QR advertised the MUC route with the 787 while the 787 was used rather infrequently on that route.

Most other airlines have only 2 products in their fleet at any one time, the old and the new. Qatar (and it is similar with Emirates, by the way) doesn't retrofit the existing fleet, at least not nearly in full, as for example Lufthansa is doing right now (however slow that may be).
So the variety of different seating products is far greater and inconsistency much more pronounced.
 
hoons90
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:47 pm

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 16):
True, but you usually know that beforehand. As has been noted, Qatar Airways is notorious for equipment changes. There has been some uproar in German frequent flyer forums a while back because QR advertised the MUC route with the 787 while the 787 was used rather infrequently on that route.

I've also heard many stories of J class passengers getting downgraded to Y at the gate to accommodate last minute VIP passengers, with compensation amounting to no more than a couple of hundred dollars.
 
Kashmon
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:59 pm

Cathay just completed refurbing all their aircraft
you only get confusion on regional routes- and that always results in a superior long haull product being used

one of the many reasons why airlines like CX/SQ are ahead of ME3

no point having fancy cabins if they are only on a few planes...
 
Qantasistheway
Posts: 278
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 10:33 pm

Etihad has a nearly uniform offering, on wide bodies at least, with the only real difference being on narrow-bodies that operate shorter flights. The only issue is the partners that Etihad has which passengers may inadvertently booked.


It's also quite amusing to see how much free publicity Al Baker gives to Etihad since the new products on the A380. First he said that 'his' first-class, unlike some others (Etihad) wouldn't be a gimmick. And now this....for an outspoken man, he surely doesn't realise that his words may create curiosity for those who don't know what he's comparing his own products to.
 
ytz
Posts: 3529
Joined: Thu Jun 25, 2009 12:31 am

RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:30 pm

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 1):
They need to concentrate on getting their older aircraft upgraded to the current business class product as seen on the 787, A380 & A350 rather than getting into a urinating contest with Etihad.

Why bother? Older aircraft will probably be parted out in the next 5 years. There's no investment case. They'll simply achieve consistency by inducting newer aircraft.

Quoting migair54 (Reply 3):
Interesting, Head to head with EY but cheaper, good for customers.

Great for J. Getting worse for Y travelers. EK will be the only airline left with decent seat pitch (and decent seat width on half the fleet).

Quoting migair54 (Reply 3):
Only A380 will have First, I think they'll need more of them in the future. Otherwise I think they'll leave some very premium customers with no choice but to use other airlines if they want first class tickets.

There's probably no real way of optimizing F service. Demand is probably concentrated in a handful of global cities (London, New York, Paris, Hong Kong, and a few others). And they'll use their A380s to serve those. Makes no sense flying to the rest with a mostly empty F cabin. Instead, they can perhaps come up with some kind of double bed (join two Js) cabin that they can sell to F pax and probably capture a good chunk of the segment.

Quoting AviationAware (Reply 8):
Stars at Skytrax are only a matter of how deep your pocketbook is.

Skytrax really strains their own credibility when they start rating airlines that fly 17/31 as "five stars".

Quoting HOONS90 (Reply 17):
I've also heard many stories of J class passengers getting downgraded to Y at the gate to accommodate last minute VIP passengers, with compensation amounting to no more than a couple of hundred dollars.

Yikes. Not a great way to build a reputation with business customers. I wonder if this is a QR practice or if it's common with other Gulf carriers. This sounds like someting you'd see on AI.
 
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Faro
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:35 am

Quoting Armodeen (Reply 1):
They need to concentrate on getting their older aircraft upgraded to the current business class product as seen on the 787, A380 & A350 rather than getting into a urinating contest with Etihad.

Urinating contests are a favourite pastime when your national income pops out of the ground in ridiculously big doses every day.

It's a mighty simple platitude but one that bears repetition: when you work hard for your money, you tend to be careful how it's spent...


Faro
 
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EK413
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:13 am

Quoting Kashmon (Reply 17):

Id say SQ nails it when it comes to consistency product offerings... The Middle Eastern carriers have a long way to go...

EK413
 
Armodeen
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Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 am

RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:23 pm

Quoting gabrielchew (Reply 14):
Quoting YouGeeElWhy (Reply 14):
The only airline I can think of that offers a uniform seat experience is BA, but that seat leaves me wanting for more.

Well, BA is nearly all the same, except for the two A318s operating LCY-JFK. They have a different (but still lie flat) J seat.

The mid haul ex-BMI A321s have a different lie flat seat as well, but still the vast majority of BA club world (business) seats are exactly the same.
 
ytz
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:41 pm

Quoting EK413 (Reply 21):
Id say SQ nails it when it comes to consistency product offerings... The Middle Eastern carriers have a long way to go...

I should think consistency is inversely related to the growth rate of a carrier.

The faster you're growing, the harder it is to be consistent. For high growth airlines, far better to accept inconsistency and change product with platform churn.

If you're going to keep aircraft for 20 years, it's easier to be consistent and plan retrofits.
 
hibtastic
Posts: 434
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:39 pm

In Scotland, if I want to travel Y class via the Middle East, I will have options with 3 of the ME carriers next year:

- QR from EDI via DOH on a 787 - 17 inch wide seats in 3-3-3 layout;
- EK from GLA via DXB on a 777 - 17 inch wide seats in 3-4-3 layout;
- EY from EDI via AUH on an A332 - 18 inch wide seats in 2-4-2 layout.

For me, I would choose EY (depending on price of course) as their seats are a little wider and 2-4-2 wins every time
 
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lightsaber
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RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:41 am

Quoting Miami (Reply 11):
But is it fair to compare VS with QR?

Both have loud mouthed spokespersons.   

Seriously, VS is not the airline they were a while ago. They are too constrained with hub frequency to grow profits and they are broadcasting good product ideas before executing them.

No reason not to compare ideas. I personally would be happy with a Y+ seat and a bed (say in the crown of the aircraft). For sleep I like quiet and privacy. I would desire such a J seat/bed if competitively priced.

To first compete requires flying the route at competitive times. That is VS' greatest weakness is lack of routes. QR's vs. EK if one is to be blunt.

Too much Y is sold on price, so the profit will be in J.

Lightsaber
 
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hilram
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Joined: Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:12 am

RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:27 am

Quoting YTZ (Reply 19):

Why bother? Older aircraft will probably be parted out in the next 5 years. There's no investment case. They'll simply achieve consistency by inducting newer aircraft.

I know that Emirates has a policy of retiring Aircraft when they are 12 years old. Does QR have a similar policy?
 
aviationaware
Posts: 2857
Joined: Mon May 19, 2014 12:02 pm

RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:03 pm

Quoting YTZ (Reply 19):
They'll simply achieve consistency by inducting newer aircraft.

No, they won't - not if they keep introducing new products so frequently. Now of course you could say inconsistency matters little when even the worst product is still as good as the current newest seat, but in a few years time we might think about that seat just as we are thinking about the sloped lie flat seats now.
 
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MaxiAir
Posts: 323
Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 7:32 pm

RE: QR To Introduce New Business Class Seat

Fri Jan 09, 2015 12:21 pm

Quoting hilram (Reply 26):
I know that Emirates has a policy of retiring Aircraft when they are 12 years old. Does QR have a similar policy?

Well Emirates may be stating that rubish very often, but look at their fleet and you'll find many aircrafts aging over 12! There are even some reaching 18, and most of them have never been updated! I recently flew on -EBK and -EBC and they are 9 or 10 years old and haven't been refurbished so far, but imo should have been! Old IFE on these Birds is crap and 3-4-3 is a nightmare! I think an aircraft interior (at least the seats) should be renewed every 6 to 8 years .

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