321neoLR
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What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:16 pm

Hi,

What airlines do you think will order this aircraft if it is officially offered?

Will it effect long haul orders?

It's a very interesting market at the moment, but with oil so cheap, will this put off potential buyers who might upgrade to a wide Body?
 
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777Jet
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:22 pm

Airlines with a lot of 757s looking for as similar a plane as possible?

Airlines that use the 757 to *most* of its potential regarding range?

Airlines that use their current A321s on long missions and want to fly that type on longer missions?

[Edited 2015-01-11 14:24:35]
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CRJ900
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:30 pm

European low-cost and charter carriers might ask for the LR version of the "extra capacity" A321 (the one with revised exits) so they can stuff in 235 pax and fly at least four hours nonstop.
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TheRedBaron
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:33 pm

Some trips from MEX and CUN would be great with a 321LR, example, LIM, Colombian Airports, Canadian cities and some nort west coast cities.

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321neoLR
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Sun Jan 11, 2015 10:38 pm

i believe EI are interested, they currently have wet leased 757's from ASL, buying these aircraft makes perfect sense being an Airbus operator.

Airbus will probably require a large order to go ahead with the launch.
 
eaa3
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:33 pm

Icelandair will buy it. They have no choice. Despite the whole B737MAX order. Bigger question is what they will do with that order.
 
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Ab345
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Sun Jan 11, 2015 11:49 pm

I think the only public statements that were made about it ( since it isn't officialy launched yet I think) were by AA and B6 which actually makes a lot of sense. I may be mistaken though.

Of course airlines that currently operate the 757 are prime candidates but also most operators of the general A320family that could use the extra juice provided by the LR should not be excluded.

Here's a thought: Launch of the LR this Tuesday at the annual press conference and AA converting or adding some 
 
mjoelnir
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:07 am

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 5):
Icelandair will buy it. They have no choice. Despite the whole B737MAX order. Bigger question is what they will do with that order.

Lease them out. Icelandair bought 15 B737-800 between March 2006 and October 2007, never used them for their routes, but leased them out and later sold them.
 
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zkojq
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:10 am

Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 7):
Icelandair bought 15 B737-800 between March 2006 and October 2007, never used them for their routes, but leased them out and later sold them.

Which specific frames were these?
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1337Delta764
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:12 am

I know some will disagree, but I wouldn't be surprised to see UA order it. The 739MAX won't cut it for UA's transatlantic routes, and the 787-8 is too large to replace the 752. UA is not fixed on only buying Boeing aircraft, as they have A350-1000s on order (with 10 added post-merger).
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MavyWavyATR
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:19 am

My guess for potential A321neoLR customers are these:

- AA
- B6
- HA (Possible convert from their standard 321neo order)
- AC
- G4

That's just my   
 
FWAERJ
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:47 am

Quoting MavyWavyATR (Reply 10):
- G4

Only when they enter the used market. G4 has never bought new airframes, and probably never will. Their business model doesn't allow for it.

Quoting MavyWavyATR (Reply 10):
- AC

Getting rid of all their A32x in favor of the 737MAX. Don't be surprised if AC eventually goes to an all-Boeing fleet.

Quoting MavyWavyATR (Reply 10):
- AA
- B6
- HA (Possible convert from their standard 321neo order)

I'd say "yes" to all three.
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mjoelnir
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:00 am

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 8):
Quoting mjoelnir (Reply 7):
Icelandair bought 15 B737-800 between March 2006 and October 2007, never used them for their routes, but leased them out and later sold them.

Which specific frames were these?

I do not know. But you can find the deliveries on Boeing.com.
 
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N62NA
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:19 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
I know some will disagree, but I wouldn't be surprised to see UA order it.

I am definitely not one of those who would disagree with that statement.  
 
SelseyBill
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:34 am

Quoting eaa3 (Reply 5):
Icelandair will buy it.

Sure they will; they have all those fish exports to deal with.........   
 
KD5MDK
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:54 am

I think everybody answering a question about "What Airline will" should ask themselves if they can think of any airlines on another continent that would be relevant to the question. If you can't think of any, research some more.
 
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BasilFawlty
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:54 am

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 8):
Which specific frames were these?

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Boeing778X
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:59 am

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 9):
I know some will disagree, but I wouldn't be surprised to see UA order it. The 739MAX won't cut it for UA's transatlantic routes, and the 787-8 is too large to replace the 752. UA is not fixed on only buying Boeing aircraft, as they have A350-1000s on order (with 10 added post-merger).

That vast majority of A.netters, including me, will agree with the statement.
I'm still convinced UA should convert some/all of their MAX 9s to MAX 8s as a result.
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zkncj
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:39 am

I'd say Air New Zealand would buy an couple to replace the last of there 763 on thin mid-haul routes, such as AKL-PPT & AKL-DPS. Would also allow new pacific island routes to open up that are current to small for an an 777/787
 
Sooner787
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:43 am

I's say AA will load up on them....

I can't believe how many AA 321's you see at DFW these days.

DP can't seem to buy 321'a fast enough
 
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Miami
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 2:49 am

Well, it's considered a 757 replacement; then most airlines that have the 757 will probably order the A321LR.


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bunumuring
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:54 am

I can see QF converting some of their Jetstar A320neo orders into A321neo and neoLR orders, especially if the neo gets the nod over the MAX as the 737-800 replacement in QF mainline. I can see a use for the neoLR in both QF and JQ service, opening up some new routes into Asia and the 'further away' Pacific destinations.
Likewise, I think Virgin Australia could use it, but they are already in the MAX camp...
And I second the post above saying that the neoLR would be good for Air New Zealand...
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777Jet
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:06 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 21):
JQ

I'm surprised that JQ hasn't already taken a few more A321s.

The six A321s they have now seem to work quite well for them and I'm sure they could make at least that many more work well with their business model.

[Edited 2015-01-11 20:08:48]
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:09 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 22):
I'm surprised that JQ hasn't already taken a few more A321s.

Hi mate,
Couldn't agree more with you! Jetstar not having more A321s, especially for GC services, seems strange to me.
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
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777Jet
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:17 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 23):
Couldn't agree more with you! Jetstar not having more A321s, especially for GC services, seems strange to me.

Yes, the A321 is a perfect fit on routes such as SYD-OOL & MEL-OOL.

I always fly OOL-SYD on the late A321 flight so no complaints from me with OOL getting more A321 services!

I'd even say stick some A321s on SYD-MEL & SYD-BNE given the traffic on such routes without, of course, upsetting big brother QF  
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RayChuang
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:56 am

I think AA, DL and UA are now in serious contention to buy the A321neoLR--all three airlines operate A320 Family planes and the A320neoLR is compatible for ground maintenance, flight crew and cabin crews already used the A320 Family planes. UA does have to consider how well the proposed plane operates out of DEN, though. As for HA, that depends on how much of a deal Airbus can offer to upgrade from the current A321neo order to the A321neoLR order.

Why AA, DL and UA? Mostly because the 752 is starting to age, and all three airlines need a modern replacement.
 
MCOflyer
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:03 am

I'd say AA because the airline they merged with US is a large A321 customer. Combined with AA, I think they have the largest fleet of A321's. They would benefit on coast to coast and runs to latin and northern southern America.

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Boeing778X
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:08 am

Quoting RayChuang (Reply 25):
Why AA, DL and UA? Mostly because the 752 is starting to age, and all three airlines need a modern replacement.

Not only that, it's the most logical replacement.

I'm not sure about DL, to be honest. They do have A321ceos on order, not to mention 737-900ERs that they are still taking orders on. We'll have to wait and see.

AA has the A321neo on order. They can easily upgrade if they so choose to.

As for UA, if there is any airline who could benefit from the A321neoLR, it's them. They need to seriously think about their fleet planning. They have A319s, A320s and 757s that need to be replaced, and the two best NB aircraft available to replace them are the 737 MAX 8 and A321neoLR. They'll have 135 737-900ERs, and I really don't see why they need 100 MAX 9s, which are already proven to be inferior to the A321neo.

125 737 MAX 8s and 60-80 A321neoLRs should be in the order books for UA.
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DocLightning
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:21 am

HA might be interested. Wouldn't shock me if ANA ordered some to expand their Asian regional network or even maybe start service to Alaska. B6 might be interested. Icelandair is a very logical customer, too.

DL and AA certainly (AA sooner and DL later). Both operate the A320 family currently. But more interesting will be UA. They have a large Boeing NB fleet and no good 757 replacement lined up. The 739MAX can do a lot of what the 752 could do, but it can't go TATL and it can't operate out of airports like DCA and SNA. So either UA will have to give up that (relatively small) market to UA and AA or get a subfleet.
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ADent
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 5:25 am

So when we are talking A321LR we are talking all 3 parts: small increase in MTOW, deletion of door #2, and reduced seat count?

Or just the MTOW increase?
 
zkncj
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:20 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 21):
I think Virgin Australia could use it, but they are already in the MAX camp..

In saying that all cloud change, with VA share holding increasing with NZ/SQ/EH. With NZ/EH both already being in the A321NEO Camp, anything cloud happen.

Later this year NZ will see the 737 completely exit from there fleet, after operating it right from the start of the 737.
 
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zkojq
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:22 am

Quoting BasilFawlty (Reply 16):
1887, 1917, 1941, 1958, 1998, 2014, 2046, 2097, 2121, 2144, 2239, 2265, 2293, 2379 and 2400.

Thanks for that.  
Quoting zkncj (Reply 18):
I'd say Air New Zealand would buy an couple to replace the last of there 763 on thin mid-haul routes
Quoting bunumuring (Reply 21):
I can see a use for the neoLR in both QF and JQ service

  
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columba
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:46 am

I also can Lufthansa order some for some longer routes to Africa and the Middle East on which a A330 is too big.
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TC957
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:31 am

Quoting columba (Reply 32):
Lufthansa order

I'd say not only for LH themselves but the other airlines in the LH group, OS, SN and LX.
TK placing a big order wouldn't surprise me either.
 
DIJKKIJK
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:33 am

I can see TK ordering quite a few. They have a lot of long and thin routes.
Possibly even EY and QR.
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hilram
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:42 am

Quoting TC957 (Reply 33):

This Aircraft should be the Perfect fit for Swissair.
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seahawk
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:01 am

In theory plenty airlines could be interested.

For Europe:

Thomas Cook (incl. DE) is very likely. LH group probably too. IAG group.
 
Eagleboy
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:08 am

Quoting 321neoLR (Reply 4):
i believe EI are interested, they currently have wet leased 757's from ASL, buying these aircraft makes perfect sense being an Airbus operator.

Pretty much a definite. They have already included a 6 "B757/Longhaul Narrow body" into their planned fleet for 2020. The leased B757's would be 22 years old at that point...and they are only 3 of them.

EI helped Airbus with ETOPS certification for the A330 back in 1994.....might be willing to assist in a similar way with the A321neo-LR?
 
migair54
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:18 am

Quoting DIJKKIJK (Reply 34):
I can see TK ordering quite a few. They have a lot of long and thin routes.
Possibly even EY and QR.

I don't think EY or QR will be interested, in the near future most of the long routes will go to B787, however many TK will be very interesting with A321LR, all the B739ER will be even better suited with the 321, but what will TK do with all this B738 if they get the A321??

Quoting columba (Reply 32):
I also can Lufthansa order some for some longer routes to Africa and the Middle East on which a A330 is too big.

Many European airlines can open new markets in West Africa and middle east with them.

AA could have a good expansion from MIA and DFW in South America using this planes, even Avianca, LATAM, South to USA.

Some low cost/charter airlines will be very happy to get up to 235 pax in single aisle plane with the flexibility of being totally compatible with A320 fleet, Wizzair, Lion Air, Indigo, Vietjet, some markets/Air spaces are becoming too saturated and adding flights it's not very easy, however ading 50 seats to current A320 flights by replacing with A321 could be a good and easy solution.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 27):
AA has the A321neo on order. They can easily upgrade if they so choose to.

or top up with few more to some routes.


AA, DL and UA with almost 400 B757 are a big target, and already very big Airbus operators (they'll have to replace in the future also), so if the A321neo and A321 NeoLR deliver what they're promising, we will see big orders for the USA big airlines.
 
Vladex
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:43 pm

well it won't be AC although a Canadian airline definitely needs it.
 
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scbriml
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 12:46 pm

I thing this plane will sell in large numbers in Asia as it could be used to open up a lot of long and thin routes.
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sailas
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:31 pm

I wonder why AY didn't take these ones, and instead opted for the basic A321 with sharklets. Did they really need to get rid of their 757s so fast?
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voodoo
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:42 pm

Quoting SelseyBill (Reply 14):
Sure they will; they have all those fish exports to deal with.........   

re: Icelandair
That's not codswallop. They'll plaice an order soon. You'll sea.
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airbazar
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:45 pm

Quoting 321neoLR (Thread starter):
What airlines do you think will order this aircraft if it is officially offered?

I'd venture guessing most of them, if not all, after the point at which it is available.
It wouldn't surprise me if the the A321NEO-LR became the only option at some point, with some airlines opting for derated engine power.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 1:49 pm

Quoting migair54 (Reply 38):
AA, DL and UA with almost 400 B757 are a big target, and already very big Airbus operators (they'll have to replace in the future also), so if the A321neo and A321 NeoLR deliver what they're promising, we will see big orders for the USA big airlines.

That market isn't a function of how many 757s they fly, but how many 757s are used to their full range (performance not within the parameters of MAX 9s and 321NEOs). That might be 60 frames for AA, DL, and UA -- not 400.
 
Beatyair
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 3:59 pm

I was going to say everyone that uses a 757 now, but Wikipedia is telling me that the A321LR is just being brought up to the range of the existing 737-900LR. What sets it apart from the existing Boeing offering? Will the A321LR be a neo?
 
lhcvg
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:13 pm

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 27):
As for UA, if there is any airline who could benefit from the A321neoLR, it's them. They need to seriously think about their fleet planning. They have A319s, A320s and 757s that need to be replaced, and the two best NB aircraft available to replace them are the 737 MAX 8 and A321neoLR. They'll have 135 737-900ERs, and I really don't see why they need 100 MAX 9s, which are already proven to be inferior to the A321neo.

This is important to note -- the 321NEOLR really doesn't factor in to a carrier's NEO vs. MAX decision, because it is a unique product. The 738 definitively established itself as the winner in that range (though UA management things the 739 is manna from heaven on a CASM basis), whereas the 321 is Airbus' killer app. Building on that, the 738MAX and 321NEOLR can easily coexist well in the same fleets because they don't actually compete directly, and the NEOLR in particular is such a specialized frame targeted to the far end of 757 performance that it's a "gotta have it" product if you want to be in that niche when your 757s start to wear out for good.
 
mjoelnir
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:13 pm

Quoting Eagleboy (Reply 37):
EI helped Airbus with ETOPS certification for the A330 back in 1994.....might be willing to assist in a similar way with the A321neo-LR?

The A321 as well as the A318/319/320 is ETOPS 180 certified.
 
LH648
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:14 pm

I guess Air Astana will go for it, as 757 is their current long-haul workhorse now. And 757s are very old compared to the rest of the fleet.
 
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Ab345
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RE: What Airlines Will Buy Long Range A321?

Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:15 pm

Quoting Beatyair (Reply 45):

Per Wiki 739ER range even with winglets is 3.265nm at 85t MTOW. A321neoLR is 4.100nm at 97t MTOW. Don't see where you find the similarity  

Just for comparison the MAX9 is 3.595nm at 88t MTOW

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