thegoldenargosy
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UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:22 pm

United is outsourcing 28 more stations.

The following stations will be potentially outsourced: ANC, ATL, BDL, BIL, BNA, BOI, GEG, GSO, IND, JAX, MCI, MFE, MIA, OKC, OMA, ONT, ORF, PBI, PVD, RDU, RIC, RNO, RSW, SAT, SJC, SMF, STL and TUL.

Sad to see corporate greed destroying more middle class jobs.
 
Cubsrule
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:25 pm

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Thread starter):
United is outsourcing 28 more stations.

I don't know what you mean by "potentially outsourced," but BNA is currently outsourced and has been for at least a decade.
I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
 
32andBelow
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:26 pm

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Thread starter):
The following stations will be potentially outsourced: ANC, ATL, BDL, BIL, BNA, BOI, GEG, GSO, IND, JAX, MCI, MFE, MIA, OKC, OMA, ONT, ORF, PBI, PVD, RDU, RIC, RNO, RSW, SAT, SJC, SMF, STL and TUL.

Sad to see corporate greed destroying more middle class jobs.

I know ANC for example has lost service recently SEA-ANC (and rightfully so), so does it make sense to have a full mainline station for 1-3 flights/day?
 
commavia
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:33 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 2):
I know ANC for example has lost service recently SEA-ANC (and rightfully so), so does it make sense to have a full mainline station for 1-3 flights/day?

Yeah - in fairness, many of these stations have little or pretty much no mainline left, so it doesn't seem - at least to me - completely crazy to simply readjust their ground handling cost structure to be more inline with the cost structure of the actual flights themselves. (Now - as to whether some of these markets should have little or pretty much no mainline left - that's another story.)
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:40 pm

Someone help me out here as I lost track of the outsourcing 'rules'.

With an outsourced station, what are the limitations on mainline aircraft? Is it a certain number of flights or a percentage of mainline VS Express?

Online article says "up to 2,000" workers represented by IAM might be effected. Someone might regret paying those union dues pretty soon.

[Edited 2015-01-12 10:44:16]
 
bennett123
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:51 pm

How many are employed by United?.
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 6:54 pm

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Thread starter):
The following stations will be potentially outsourced: ANC, ATL, BDL, BIL, BNA, BOI, GEG, GSO, IND, JAX, MCI, MFE, MIA, OKC, OMA, ONT, ORF, PBI, PVD, RDU, RIC, RNO, RSW, SAT, SJC, SMF, STL and TUL.

Could you provide a source?
 
CALMSP
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:03 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 4):

that previous sUA contract language went out the door in the most recent contract.
 
glbltrvlr
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:06 pm

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Thread starter):

Sad to see corporate greed destroying more middle class jobs.

The Masters of the Universe (otherwise known as MBA grads) are hammered with the concept that the only assets a company should own are ones that are unique to that company. Since there is nothing unique about running an airline, that means no real estate, no buildings, no people, capital equipment leased. Everything else gets managed by a competitive subcontract. In their world, the only thing of value is the brand and the network.

[Edited 2015-01-12 11:08:57]
 
Tan Flyr
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:19 pm

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 8):
In their world, the only thing of value is the brand and the network.

and what they DO NOT understand is that the only thing that brings value to a Brand like "United" is the people..and the experience a customer has with those people.


Joe Smith could give a darn if he flies ona 738 or a 320..it is price, yes, but the experience counts.

United an others ought to heed a few old sayings.."The Sweetness of a low price never equals the bitterness of poor quality'


"If you want nice fresh oats, those come at a fair price. The oats that have been thru the horse are a lot cheaper!"
 
cle757
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:07 pm

United treat its employees horrible, everyone expects to lose their jobs all the time!
Cleveland the best location in the Nation
 
jetmatt777
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:10 pm

Do you have a source?

Nothing has been posted with the union, nor has been emailed to the stations, nor has been posted internally.

Yes it's coming, but it's not official yet.
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 11):

In the "UA Demise in CMH" thread a user posted that 28 stations will be outsourced. Other than that post, there has been no confirmation. However, I can totally see UA pulling this off.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
jetmatt777
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:13 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 12):
In the "UA Demise in CMH" thread a user posted that 28 stations will be outsourced. Other than that post, there has been no confirmation. However, I can totally see UA pulling this off.

Yes but that decision has not been made. We [line stations] have not heard anything official yet.

Rumor is an announcement this week for 15 more stations -- but again only rumors!
Lighten up while you still can, don't even try to understand, just find a place to make your stand and take it easy
 
Rdh3e
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:49 pm

United is 'studying' the outsourcing....

http://www.wsj.com/articles/united-m...-2-000-airport-jobs-ual-1421082212

Google "United Studies Outsourcing up to 2000 Airport Jobs" to bypass the WSJ paywall. It should be the first available link.

[Edited 2015-01-12 12:50:55]
 
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IrishAyes
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 8:57 pm

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 8):
Everything else gets managed by a competitive subcontract. In their world, the only thing of value is the brand and the network.

Except UA is lousy at providing value in both areas.

The fact that UA cannot fly mainline into ATL and MIA, post-merger, is absolutely disgusting.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:07 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 15):
The fact that UA cannot fly mainline into ATL and MIA, post-merger, is absolutely disgusting.

Both MIA and ATL see some UA mainline.
 
CALMSP
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:23 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 11):

yes, the email has been sent internally.
 
AA737-823
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:26 pm

I hope they don't cut ANC. I've lived here on and off for nine years, and some of the same ex-Continental agents are STILL HERE, and know me.
And who would they outsource to, here?!?! Pegasus? Swissport??? Oh, brother, we're doomed.

Also,

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 2):
I know ANC for example has lost service recently SEA-ANC (and rightfully so), so does it make sense to have a full mainline station for 1-3 flights/day?
Quoting commavia (Reply 3):
Yeah - in fairness, many of these stations have little or pretty much no mainline left,

Actually, ANC has more service year-round now than it EVER has before. We've got one to ORD and one to DEN minimum, plus one or two to SFO most months, and an additional freq to ORD or DEN during summer season, and a nonstop to IAH during summer....
Compared to, in the past, one a day Continental service to SEA.
At one point two years ago, with the EWR nonstop (once a week??? Why bother?) we had NINE daily United flights.
And some of it is on larger equipment, such as 752s and 753s.

So not all of these stations are itty-bitty podunk.
 
codc10
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:41 pm

Quoting irishayes (Reply 15):
The fact that UA cannot fly mainline into ATL

Fortunately, as of now there is more mainline at ATL than at any point in the last five years, I would say.
 
deltal1011man
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:48 pm

and people honestly question why United and American have terrible employee relations. "hey we just made 1B this year....MORE OUTSOURCING!"

Quoting commavia (Reply 3):
Yeah - in fairness, many of these stations have little or pretty much no mainline left, so it doesn't seem - at least to me - completely crazy to simply readjust their ground handling cost structure to be more inline with the cost structure of the actual flights themselves.

Its funny how people say this all the time in these threads, and for another cAArrier

but Delta has stations that have less mainline than say ATL does for United. Amazing how they can make it work........
 
COSPN
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:52 pm

Yes love it how employees have to read it in the newspaper first. CO at least told the employees what they were doing and why. They never told the newspapers first. Really sad
 
deltal1011man
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:55 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 21):

errr

odd considering it would be exCO people who are making these cuts.
 
COSPN
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:59 pm

Things happen in Business but NO excuse to tell the newspapers before the affected employees  

from Bloomberg:
United Continental Holdings Inc. (UAL) is considering outsourcing as many as 2,000 jobs at non-hub airports as the carrier looks to cut costs.

Outside contractors may take over the positions at 28 airports including those serving Indianapolis, Atlanta and St. Louis, Luke Punzenberger, a United spokesman, said. The carrier, the world’s second largest by traffic, notified employees and the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers this morning about the possible shift.

The airline has been trying since late 2013 to cut $2 billion from its annual costs through fuel savings, workforce reductions and other measures. The Chicago-based carrier reported $37 billion in operating expenses for 2013, giving it one of the lowest profit margins among peers. United in July said it would outsource more than 630 positions at 12 U.S. airports.

No final decisions have been made about the latest round of outsourcing, including how many positions would be affected and where they would be, Punzenberger said in a telephone interview.

“We want to make these decisions as quickly as possible because we have to make sure that our costs are competitive,” he said.

An IAM spokesman said he was seeking a comment from union leadership.

The union’s contract protects jobs at big hubs, such as Chicago’s O’Hare International Airport and Newark Liberty International Airport in New Jersey. The airline can outsource jobs at smaller stations. However, United must meet with the union to negotiate any potential shift of work to contractors, according to an update posted on the website of IAM’s District 141, which represents airport workers.

The airports that may be affected by the latest move mostly are serviced by United’s regional operation, United Express, rather than by the main carrier, Punzenberger said.

[Edited 2015-01-12 14:01:16]

[Edited 2015-01-12 14:04:54]

[Edited 2015-01-12 14:05:13]
 
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usdcaguy
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:03 pm

Quoting codc10 (Reply 19):

Quoting irishayes (Reply 15):
The fact that UA cannot fly mainline into ATL

Fortunately, as of now there is more mainline at ATL than at any point in the last five years, I would say.


That's true. There is a lot more mainline now. However, that is a very recent phenomenon. Up until recently, I would strain to get a UA mainline flight to ATL.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 18):
I hope they don't cut ANC. I've lived here on and off for nine years, and some of the same ex-Continental agents are STILL HERE, and know me.

That's what I find so sad. There are all those people who have hustled like crazy for years working for CO and then wind up losing their jobs because the carrier that bought them wants to outsource their positions. "From First to Fired" is what that experience should be called. Shameful.
 
eaglepower83
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:07 pm

Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 8):
The Masters of the Universe (otherwise known as MBA grads) are hammered with the concept that the only assets a company should own are ones that are unique to that company. Since there is nothing unique about running an airline, that means no real estate, no buildings, no people, capital equipment leased. Everything else gets managed by a competitive subcontract. In their world, the only thing of value is the brand and the network.

BINGO!

Quoting Tan Flyr (Reply 9):
and what they DO NOT understand is that the only thing that brings value to a Brand like "United" is the people..and the experience a customer has with those people.

AND BINGO!

United really has become an unbelievable embarrassment to aviation, and to me as a Chicagoan.
If they didn't actually employ so many good people here (give it time, maybe they'll cut more) .... I'd have no problem seeing them take their sorry arses back to Houston.

I feel bad for all those on the chopping block. Those at BDL took real good care of me during my Hartford days. All except that one 'B' from CO  
 
93Sierra
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:23 pm

What are UAs largest non hub airports? Which will be the largest to be outsourced?
 
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GCT64
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:26 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 16):
Quoting irishayes (Reply 15):
The fact that UA cannot fly mainline into ATL and MIA, post-merger, is absolutely disgusting.

Both MIA and ATL see some UA mainline.

I'm at gate D8 at Atlanta right now, waiting to board the A319 parked in front of me for EWR - so, I can confirm, there is definitely some UA mainline at ATL  
Flown in: A20N,A21N,A30B,A306,A310,A319,A320,A321,A332,A333,A343,A346,A359,A388,BA11,BU31,(..56 more types..),VC10,WESX
 
32andBelow
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 10:27 pm

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 18):
Actually, ANC has more service year-round now than it EVER has before. We've got one to ORD and one to DEN minimum, plus one or two to SFO most months, and an additional freq to ORD or DEN during summer season, and a nonstop to IAH during summer....

When is the SFO flights most months? Also there used to be 2X to SEA that are gone. Currently the only flight they are operating is DEN.

[Edited 2015-01-12 14:36:16]
 
dlramp4life
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:21 pm

"Why don't we move the affected agents to take over the UAX operation in DEN."   

This is terrible timing with the whole Simplicity meltdown in DEN to announce they are possibly outsourcing 28 more stations. Isn't UA posting profits?
 
flyiguy
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:24 pm

Heres the link if youre looking for a source...

http://www.wsj.com/articles/united-m...-2-000-airport-jobs-ual-1421082212

FLY
The opinions I post are of mine and mine alone, not of the airline I work for.
 
MSPNWA
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:43 pm

Sad to see more outsourcing. But this what you get when shareholders become the most important stakeholders. The real competitive market in the airline industry is on Wall Street.
 
eastern747
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:45 pm

I have a great idea.....United and Wal Mart should join hands in the Human Resource department so if someone comes into Wal Mart to get a job, they can fill out a UA application. Starting salary is $8.50/hr and no benefits. Thanks the final straw for me, cut myself off from anything related to UA. So sad.
 
nry
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:55 pm

Quoting EaglePower83 (Reply 25):
Quoting glbltrvlr (Reply 8):
The Masters of the Universe (otherwise known as MBA grads) are hammered with the concept that the only assets a company should own are ones that are unique to that company. Since there is nothing unique about running an airline, that means no real estate, no buildings, no people, capital equipment leased. Everything else gets managed by a competitive subcontract. In their world, the only thing of value is the brand and the network.

BINGO!

Yawn.  
B727, B737, B747, B757, B767, B777, B787, DC9/MD80, DC10, MD11
A319, A320 (+neo), A321, A330, A340
L1011
ATR77, CRJ200, CRJ700, E145, E170, E175
 
tommy767
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:55 pm

Quoting COSPN (Reply 21):

It's circa 1990s-2000s c-suite CO managment making these decisions on this latest round of outsourcing. They are to blame, but it looks like they changed processes for the worse, however.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
glbltrvlr
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Mon Jan 12, 2015 11:58 pm

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 32):
United and Wal Mart should join hands in the Human Resource department

There's nothing unique about HR. You may be surprised to know that HR has been outsourced in most large corporations. The only part of HR that remains on the company payroll are the people who do org design and org efficiency. Those are the people who look at the number of people in each job/salary grade and decide when a particular grade has too many employees. Then you get debanding and RIFs.

Traditional HR functions like benefits, retirement, internal job reqs, external job reqs, etc. have been turned over (i.e. outsourced) to companies like AeonHewitt and others.
 
usflyer msp
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:00 am

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 1):

I don't know what you mean by "potentially outsourced," but BNA is currently outsourced and has been for at least a decade

BNA is PMCO mainline above wing and Delta Global below wing...
 
B737900ER
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:01 am

Why is everyone so shocked and amazed this is happening. The IAM represented employees at UA gave them the green light to do this in their last contract. There was a warning on the first page that basically said if you vote this in most of you will probably loose your job, but here's 5000 dollars. Everyone read that and saw 5000 dollars!!! You have my vote. IMO one of the dumbest contracts ever to be voted in at any airline anywhere.

They voted to give up their job protections and now UA is the big bad guy. I'm not defending management but you can not at all give the union a pass here
 
commavia
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:03 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
but Delta has stations that have less mainline than say ATL does for United. Amazing how they can make it work........

Indeed it is amazing - an amazing example of how Delta has a distinct advantage in not having unions to stand in the way of creating lower-cost, "in-house" ranks of "Ready Reserve" rampers that are obviously much more cost-competitive with regional carriers and outsourcing vendors owing to their reduced pay, benefits and hours.
 
global1
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:15 am

And now the IAM, who couldn't even retain the employee groups they represented at Northwest at the time of the merger, is seeking to represent the Delta flight attendants.
Thanks, but no thanks.
 
ual777
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 12:30 am

Sad. JAX, SAT, STL, OMA and PBI are all outstanding stations.
It is always darkest before the sun comes up.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:09 am

Here is the announcement set out today.


United and IAM will meet to discuss competitive sourcing at 28 line stations

We announced today that we will meet with International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) leadership about the sourcing of work at 28 of our line stations: ANC (Anchorage, Alaska), ATL (Atlanta), BDL (Hartford, Connecticut), BIL (Billings, Montana), BNA (Nashville, Tennessee), BOI (Boise, Idaho), GEG (Spokane, Washington), GSO (Greensboro, North Carolina), IND (Indianapolis), JAX (Jacksonville, Florida), MCI (Kansas City, Missouri), MFE (McAllen, Texas), MIA (Miami), OKC (Oklahoma City), OMA (Omaha, Nebraska), ONT (Ontario, California), ORF (Norfolk, Virginia), PBI (West Palm Beach, Florida), PVD (Providence, Rhode Island), RDU (Raleigh-Durham, North Carolina), RIC (Richmond, Virginia), RNO (Reno, Nevada), RSW (Fort Myers, Florida), SAT (San Antonio), SJC (San Jose, California), SMF (Sacramento, California), STL (St. Louis), and TUL (Tulsa, Oklahoma).

Many of our major competitors in these locations have workforce arrangements, including market competitive sourcing, that allow them to operate in these stations at significantly lower costs that are more in line with local markets. We have reviewed our costs in these locations and have received bids back from several potential vendors, but before we make any final decisions we will meet with the IAM to determine if we can keep the work with United under different labor terms.

“While we have made great strides to improve United’s financial performance, we must continue to push to close the margin gap to our major competitors,” said Airport Operations SVP Jon Roitman. “These are difficult decisions and we recognize the impact to our employees, but we have a responsibility to make sure that we are competitive at a market level at each station to which we fly.”
Our goal is to conclude these discussions as promptly as we can, because we know that continued uncertainty is difficult for our people. However, these are important decisions, and we will take the time to work with the IAM and explore all reasonable possibilities for keeping work in-house at competitive rates and terms.

=
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
codc10
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:14 am

Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
but Delta has stations that have less mainline than say ATL does for United. Amazing how they can make it work........
Quoting commavia (Reply 38):

Indeed it is amazing - an amazing example of how Delta has a distinct advantage in not having unions to stand in the way of creating lower-cost, "in-house" ranks of "Ready Reserve" rampers that are obviously much more cost-competitive with regional carriers and outsourcing vendors owing to their reduced pay, benefits and hours.

Bingo. There's nothing inherently different about the carriers, it's simply that DL has been able to leverage its lack of union penetration to staff a significant component of its operation with what amounts to be part-time labor and limited/no benefits.

The only difference is that UA will likely stipulate reduced or eliminated travel benefits for the contractors who come in to those outsourced stations.
 
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enilria
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:17 am

Quoting thegoldenargosy (Thread starter):
Sad to see corporate greed destroying more middle class jobs.

More accurately, technology is destroying more middle class jobs. With your phone giving you a reaccommodated flight and your phone checking you in, the tasks left for agents to perform have become more and more unskilled. This is inevitable in a lot of industries, unfortunately.
 
AA737-823
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:34 am

Delta has mainline above wing at ANC. Why can't United??
 
CALMSP
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:38 am

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 34):

but the leader in all of this was sUA. However, she apparently was let go just before christmas.

Quoting B737900ER (Reply 37):

exactly. All this "brotherhood", the agents in these stations should be ashamed of the people who they thought were in this together.



The one thing that is missing, and just like the previous round, what will be next will be an announcement stating which work will be moving in-house.
 
EXCOASA1982
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:41 am

Will the effected employees from the 28 line stations be able to "bump" people from the "protected" stations if the stations are changed to a vendor?
 
32andBelow
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 1:45 am

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 45):
Delta has mainline above wing at ANC. Why can't United??

DL has a lot more flights than UA
 
FlyDeltaJets
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:11 am

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 6):
Could you provide a source?
Quoting Deltal1011man (Reply 20):
but Delta has stations that have less mainline than say ATL does for United. Amazing how they can make it work........

Delta's labor costs are much lower than UA.
The only valid opinions are those based in facts
 
32andBelow
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RE: UA Outsourcing 28 More Stations

Tue Jan 13, 2015 2:16 am

Also don't confuse Delta Global for Delta at some of these stations.

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