727LOVER
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BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Thu Jan 15, 2015 3:38 am

BOS has had quite a few airlines that have held this title, I think all the airlines below had it at one point.

Eastern
Delta
Northeast
Allegheny/USAir
American
Northwest
JetBlue

Can someone tell me what years these carriers were #1 at BOS...if they were! 

I'm talking # of flights, not pax #s.


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TWA772LR
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:56 am

Quoting 727LOVER (Thread starter):
Northwest

Anyone else find it ironic that Northwest was the best airline in the northeast?
When wasn't America great?


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gullairACK
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Thu Jan 15, 2015 1:45 pm

If you are going by departures and not passengers, then PBA in the 80's could well be in the lead with hourly shuttles to ACK, HYA, MVY, PVC and BTV with other high frequency flights to points around New England and upstate NY. They covered a lot of Maine after the Bar Harbor merge. Not to mention the multiple 2nd and 3rd sections of each flight on Friday's and Sunday's. They really hustled in those days.
 
ordpark
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Thu Jan 15, 2015 4:11 pm

Let's not forget Northeast and their iconic Yellowbirds!
 
Mainliner
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Thu Jan 15, 2015 6:44 pm

I know at one time NW once had service from BOS to a few different destinations, including Europe if I'm not mistaken. But when could they ever be considered a major player, let alone claim the #1 spot?
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727stretch
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:28 am

It's an interesting market for sure, with a lot of carriers having almost equal market share, as opposed to one dominant carrier. Obviously jetBlue has been the #1 carrier by a long shot, since at least 2010. They now have 100+ flights/day. Currently, US has the 2nd most flights (average 50/day), followed by Delta. Prior to jetBlue having the most flights, it was primarily US, but I am pretty certain that at one point in the late 90s AA had the most. But that may have been AA+ Eagle. At various times, a lot of carriers expanded ops at Logan for a period. In 1999, UA added daily LHR service, daily SJC & SAN service, the hourly IAD shuttle, BusinessOne hourly to ORD, plus the existing 7-8x SFO, 4x LAX and 5-6x DEN. The SJC/SAN only lasted 6 months, LHR lasted through to just after 9/11, and the rest remained for the most part until the CO merger. Right around the same time in 99/00, DL had expansion as well. DL also added London (LGW) and LAX in addition to Song and everything else. And yes, in the early to mid-1990s, NW had quite a presence. They had flights to DCA, ORD, SEA, LGW and CDG... plus the usual DTW, MEM, MSP, AMS. As for the others maybe someone else can provide some detail. I know AA was real big in the late 90s, but not sure to where they had service other than the usual hubs and west coast flights.
 
747buff
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:40 am

Quoting 727stretch (Reply 5):
And yes, in the early to mid-1990s, NW had quite a presence. They had flights to DCA, ORD, SEA, LGW and CDG... plus the usual DTW, MEM, MSP, AMS. As for the others maybe someone else can provide some detail.

Others through the years:

LAX
SFO
MKE (when MKE was a hub)
MIA
MCO
RSW
TPA
JFK
LGA
BDA
PIK/GLA
SNN/DUB (when SNN was a required stop to and from DUB)
FRA
At Eastern, we earn our wings every day!
 
questions
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Fri Jan 16, 2015 4:47 am

Re the photo of Eastern Airlines Boeing 727-214, what was "Air Shuttle Plus"? I know there was a BOS-LGA-DCA shuttle. Was this different?

Also, what was Eastern's onboard service like? I know the airline struggled near the end, but was it ever good?
 
maxpower1954
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Fri Jan 16, 2015 5:30 am

I believe Allegheny inherited the BOS operation from Mohawk, which was substantial.

But thanks for finding that shot of the National 727 and American BAC 1-11...just awesome!
 
zrs70
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Fri Jan 16, 2015 6:25 am

Braniff I had a transatlantic BOS hub for a while (though they were never the number 1 carrier).

DL considered BOS a mini hub for many years. There was quite a bit of regional service (not regional jet/ props - but rather short haul on mainline): YUL, BDA, BDL, PWM, Presque Isle, ACK, BGR. DCA, PHL. EWR, LGA, JFK, MHT, PHL....
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tommy767
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:36 am

Quoting 727stretch (Reply 5):

I recall BOS-LHR on UA. It operated around the same time at EWR-LHR which was on a UA 777, whereas BOS-LHR was a 763. But BOS-LHR was canned quickly after 9/11 and EWR-LHR stuck around until 2004ish.

However, I really don't ever remember UA flying BOS-SJC/SAN. They flew lots of 3-class 767s on BOS-SFO for many years. You might be confusing that with AA which operated both routes through the mid-2000s. UA did briefly fly BOS-JFK on a A320 in 2000.

UA was quick to retreat from it's BOS presence after 9/11 and the downed economy but amazingly they still have their F/A base there.
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airbazar
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:39 pm

Quoting Mainliner (Reply 4):
I know at one time NW once had service from BOS to a few different destinations, including Europe if I'm not mistaken. But when could they ever be considered a major player, let alone claim the #1 spot?

BOS was a significant hub for Northwest in the 80's, with international service to GLA, LGW, CDG, AMS, FRA, ARN, CPH, BDA. In addition to lost of domestic cities served by mainline they also had "commuter" service operated by Northeast Express, later replaced by Business Express.
 
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knope2001
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:56 pm

Northwest had a decent amount of mainline flights and destinations including serving as Northwest's primary transatlantic gateway for years. Then by the late 80's and into the early 90's they code-shared with regional carriers Precision and Northeast Express which brought a whole flock of regional 19-seat routes into their network.

I'd be hard-pressed, though, to wager that Northwest was ever the largest carrier in Boston.

Doing a quick race-through of a 1991 OAG on departedflights.com here's what find flight (excludes Europe)

Delta -- 165/day total
58 mainline to 14 cities
80 large prop and 27 small prop to 17 more cities (and some overlap)

Northwest -- 130/day total
40 mainline to 11 cities
0 large prop and 90 small prop to 18 more cities

USAirways -- 120/day total
84 mainline to 18 cities
9 large prop and 27 small prop to 9 more cities

Doing a very dirty capacity guess where DL and NW get 140 seats per mainline and US gets 120, large props average 35 seats and small props 19, here's what I get for weekday capacity

Mainline Only
10,080 USAirways
8,120 Delta
5,600 Northwest

Mainline + Codehsare Regional
11,433 Delta
11,004 USAirways
7,310 Northwest

These numbers don't include Northwest's international flying, which from a December 1992 NW timetable shows 28 flights per week to 5 cities (AMS, CDG, FRA, GLA, LGW). Those definitely bump up Northwest's numbers a few notches, but in capacity and frequency it still wouldn't be near the top.

I don't claim that this is necessarily the exact peak of the Boston operation although this is probably pretty close. The regional side may have grown a bit more but I don't think mainline ever got much past 40 for Northwest.

Certainly Northwest was a large player in these years, and they participated in some pretty big nonhub markets like LAX, MCO, MIA, SFO, LGA, ORD, SFO, TPA, SEA, DCA in these years. But except for DCA (where they inherited slots from EA's demise) Northwest ran many of these destinations as 1x/day to coordinate with their handful of transatlantic flights. Northwest was a big player in Boston, but I doubt they surpassed DL and US in most metrics.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:43 pm

Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 8):


I believe Allegheny inherited the BOS operation from Mohawk, which was substantial.

AL served BOS pre-Mohawk:

http://www.departedflights.com/AL030171.html

But Mohawk added a good deal of additional routes:

http://www.timetableimages.com/i-mn/mo7104i.jpg
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:29 pm

Definetly DL. They were the dominant carrier at BOS fromafter the Northeast Airlines buyout in 1972, until the late 1990's. If you include Delta Express/BEX flights, the BOS operation was even larger.
 
zrs70
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:00 pm

While DL was certainly number one for many years, Eastern had incredible cache with its beautiful terminal!
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:02 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 9):

Braniff I had a transatlantic BOS hub for a while (though they were never the number 1 carrier).

DL considered BOS a mini hub for many years. There was quite a bit of regional service (not regional jet/ props - but rather short haul on mainline): YUL, BDA, BDL, PWM, Presque Isle, ACK, BGR. DCA, PHL. EWR, LGA, JFK, MHT, PHL....


There were those regional cities, served by multiple mainline flights. There was the NY and DC area flights. Flights to Bermuda and the Bahamas. As well as multiple mainline flights each day to each of the big Florida markets such as MCO, TPA, FLL. Plus numerous daily flights to the ATL, DFW, and CVG hubs. I know LAS was also once served daily. And maybe LAX?

DL was king in town the longest of any airline. Right up through the late 1990's when US overtook them.
 
ghYHZ
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:30 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 11):

BOS was a significant hub for Northwest in the 80's, with international service to GLA, LGW, CDG, AMS, FRA, ARN, CPH, BDA. In addition to lost of domestic cities served by mainline they also had "commuter" service operated by Northeast Express, later replaced by Business Express.

Ahh.....Northeast Express/NW Airlink! Remember them well and flew them often between BOS and YQM (Moncton). For awhile in the ‘90s they had the Maritimes pretty well covered from BOS with service to YYG, YSJ, YFC and YHZ and up to 5 flights a day just to YQM. Business must have been good with some flights up-gauged from Metroliners to Dash-8s.
 
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deltacto
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:02 pm

Delta peaked in 1993/1994 with 200+ total flights - mainline and regional
Surprisingly the number of mainline flights was pretty constant dating back to the late 70's

http://www.departedflights.com/DLBOShub.html
 
727LOVER
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:41 pm

Quoting pwm2txlhopper (Reply 14):
They were the dominant carrier at BOS fromafter the Northeast Airlines buyout in 1972, until the late 1990's.
Quoting deltacto (Reply 18):
Delta peaked in 1993/1994 with 200+ total flights - mainline and regional

It depends on whether you count regional.
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:59 pm

Not really. Even not including regional flights, DL had the most flights of any airline at BOS from the 1970's -mid 1990's

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 19):
 
727LOVER
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:29 am

Well first you said:

Quoting pwm2txlhopper (Reply 14):
until the late 1990's

Now you're saying

Quoting pwm2txlhopper (Reply 20):
-mid 1990's

This what I remember

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 12):
Doing a quick race-through of a 1991 OAG
Quoting knope2001 (Reply 12):
Mainline Only
10,080 USAirways
8,120 Delta

These days with regional jets flying 80-90-100 pax and having First Class, it s easy to blend them in. But before the RJ, when we're talking SF3 and DH8s and the like, much easy to differentiate.
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:37 am

Quoting ghYHZ (Reply 17):
Ahh.....Northeast Express/NW Airlink! Remember them well and flew them often between BOS and YQM (Moncton). For awhile in the ‘90s they had the Maritimes pretty well covered from BOS with service to YYG, YSJ, YFC and YHZ and up to 5 flights a day just to YQM. Business must have been good with some flights up-gauged from Metroliners to Dash-8s.

Indeed. In fact, intra-state air travel within New England has become non-practical since the demise of NW Airlink and BEX. Use to be easy with a quick connection in BOS to get from one smaller city to another in New England and upstate NY. Try flying between small cities today such as PWM-PQI, BGR-ALB, RUT-BHB, BDL-BTV, PVD-SYR without the ability to connect in BOS. With the time and numerous connections needed, it makes driving faster.

Quoting 727LOVER (Reply 21):

Yeah, between 1995-1999ish. Within a period of four years. Can't tell you an exact year without taking the time to researching which year US overtook DL. Don't really care. However, I do remember advertisements up in Fenway park proclaiming DL as BOS's hometown airline with more daily flights then any other airline at Logan



Also, DL's regional services at BOS in the 70's-early 1980's was not just with props, but on the original RJ. The DC-9-30.

Edited 2015-01-17 16:48:29]


[Edited 2015-01-17 16:55:08]
 
727LOVER
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:01 am

Hmmm...here's the DL BOS info here:
http://www.departedflights.com/DLBOShub.html
Unfortunately, no US info
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airbazar
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:53 pm

Quoting pwm2txlhopper (Reply 22):
Indeed. In fact, intra-state air travel within New England has become non-practical since the demise of NW Airlink and BEX. Use to be easy with a quick connection in BOS to get from one smaller city to another in New England and upstate NY. Try flying between small cities today such as PWM-PQI, BGR-ALB, RUT-BHB, BDL-BTV, PVD-SYR without the ability to connect in BOS. With the time and numerous connections needed, it makes driving faster.

Funny you say that. A while ago I was involved in a discussion regarding BOS as a hub. My point was and still is that BOS is very much still a regional hub, the difference being that today a lot of the segments are done over land, either by car or bus, or train. It doesn't change the fact that people are still getting down to BOS to fly out somewhere. But I digress  
 
commavia
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:20 pm

Quoting 727stretch (Reply 5):
Obviously jetBlue has been the #1 carrier by a long shot, since at least 2010. They now have 100 flights/day. Currently, US has the 2nd most flights (average 50/day), followed by Delta.

For about a decade, since the mid-2000s, JetBlue has indeed been BOS' largest airline - "by a long shot" for fewer years. However, now with the merger, the "new AA" has dramatically closed the gap, and while post-merger JetBlue will almost certainly remain BOS' largest airline, it will once again no longer be so "by a long shot."

Quoting 727stretch (Reply 5):
Prior to jetBlue having the most flights, it was primarily US, but I am pretty certain that at one point in the late 90s AA had the most. But that may have been AA Eagle.
Quoting pwm2txlhopper (Reply 22):
Yeah, between 1995-1999ish. Within a period of four years. Can't tell you an exact year without taking the time to researching which year US overtook DL. Don't really care. However, I do remember advertisements up in Fenway park proclaiming DL as BOS's hometown airline with more daily flights then any other airline at Logan

From the closure of the Business Express acquisition on 11 March 1999, and more particularly from the day Business Express was fully integrated into American Eagle on 26 September 1999, through the mid-2000s, I believe AA was, indeed, BOS' largest airline brand.

Quoting pwm2txlhopper (Reply 22):
In fact, intra-state air travel within New England has become non-practical since the demise of NW Airlink and BEX. Use to be easy with a quick connection in BOS to get from one smaller city to another in New England and upstate NY. Try flying between small cities today such as PWM-PQI, BGR-ALB, RUT-BHB, BDL-BTV, PVD-SYR without the ability to connect in BOS. With the time and numerous connections needed, it makes driving faster.

More specifically, I think what was truly rendered intra-state air travel within New England "non-practical" was the economic realities of the post-9/11 world. Multiple airlines - AA, Delta, JetBlue (via Penair codeshare), etc. - have attempted regional networks out of BOS to small New England markets in the last 10-15 years, but all have ultimately failed, to the point that today there is so little of such service - relative to what it used to be - left. Long gone are the days of numerous daily BOS-BTV flights, or near-hourly schedules from BOS to PWM/BGR, for example.

Quoting airbazar (Reply 24):
Funny you say that. A while ago I was involved in a discussion regarding BOS as a hub. My point was and still is that BOS is very much still a regional hub, the difference being that today a lot of the segments are done over land, either by car or bus, or train. It doesn't change the fact that people are still getting down to BOS to fly out somewhere. But I digress

I, too, remember that conversation.  

And my point was and still is that - exactly as this discussion attests - BOS no longer functions as an air hub for New England since such traffic has largely been rendered "non-practical," but BOS certainly remains by far the largest and most important transportation, economic and cultural hub for New England - I don't think that's debatable.

[Edited 2015-01-18 07:22:12]
 
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pwm2txlhopper
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:13 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 24):



Funny you say that. A while ago I was involved in a discussion regarding BOS as a hub. My point was and still is that BOS is very much still a regional hub, the difference being that today a lot of the segments are done over land, either by car or bus, or train. It doesn't change the fact that people are still getting down to BOS to fly out somewhere. But I digress  


As somebody who for years use to take ground transport to catch flights out of BOS instead of local PWM, BOS has become irrelevant for me and a lot of local travelers in Maine. I have not taken a flight out of BOS in over seven years. Even International flights. With the arrival of the LCC's at PWM, all airfares are down on all airlines to the point they are equal, if not cheaper than ones offered by traveling to BOS?

I'm sure people are still traveling to BOS for flights, but there's really no need to for the savy traveler these days. I'm curious to know how many passengers places such as PWM, BTV, MHT have siphoned away from Logan. Combined it's got to be over a million per year?
 
stratacruiser
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:28 pm

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 9):
However, I really don't ever remember UA flying BOS-SJC/SAN. They flew lots of 3-class 767s on BOS-SFO for many years. You might be confusing that with AA which operated both routes through the mid-2000s. UA did briefly fly BOS-JFK on a A320 in 2000.

UA added SJC in response to AA adding SFO....I recall flying a relatively empty A319 redeye from SJC to BOS 10-15 years ago.
 
timz
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:09 pm

Top five airlines at BOS, by sched-svc departures performed--

1975 EA 19949, DL 18980, AL15552, NE 12353, AA 11689

1979 DL 21029, EA 17978, AL 12518, NE 11830, AA 10611

1983 DL 20333, EA 15503, AL 12572, NW 5334, PE 5332
 
airbazar
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Sun Jan 18, 2015 10:02 pm

Quoting pwm2txlhopper (Reply 26):

I'm sure people are still traveling to BOS for flights, but there's really no need to for the savy traveler these days. I'm curious to know how many passengers places such as PWM, BTV, MHT have siphoned away from Logan. Combined it's got to be over a million per year?

PWM and BTV are a bit too far. But ased on passengers statistics for the last few years, the answer is none. BOS passenger numbers have been on the rise while nearly every other airport in the region has been shrinking. If we factor in the fact that the population in MA has been stagnant, one can suggest that more people are driving to BOS, not less.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Mon Jan 19, 2015 1:12 am

Quoting timz (Reply 28):


Top five airlines at BOS, by sched-svc departures performed--

1975 EA 19949, DL 18980, AL15552, NE 12353, AA 11689

1979 DL 21029, EA 17978, AL 12518, NE 11830, AA 10611

Do you have your dates wrong on this? NE was part of DL by these times. As always, thanks for your input from your awesome OAG collection.

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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:16 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 25):

From the closure of the Business Express acquisition on 11 March 1999, and more particularly from the day Business Express was fully integrated into American Eagle on 26 September 1999, through the mid-2000s, I believe AA was, indeed, BOS' largest airline brand.

I worked for them. It was a constant shrinking once the Saabs went away. And that happened by 2003 or so. All AA did was shrink in BOS from the time they were the biggest until they were down to no satellite terminal.
 
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adamh8297
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Mon Jan 19, 2015 3:36 am

Quoting commavia (Reply 25):
JetBlue (via Penair codeshare),

That was US not B6
Airlines flown: A3, AA, AC, AF, AM, BA, B6, CA, CO, CX, DL, EA, EL, IB, LH, MI, MQ, NH, NW, NZ, OU, PE, QF, S4, SQ, TP, UA, US, VS, WE, WN

2019: CX BOS-HKG, WE HKG-HKT, CA HKT-PEK-EWR, B6 EWR-BOS
 
timz
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:14 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 30):
NE was part of DL by these times.

Different NE, it seems-- mostly Twin Otter.
 
maxpower1954
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting timz (Reply 33):
Different NE, it seems-- mostly Twin Otter.

Yes, Air New England. Took over many of the Northeast routes after the Delta merger.
 
afcjets
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:53 am

Quoting Mainliner (Reply 4):



I know at one time NW once had service from BOS to a few different destinations, including Europe if I'm not mistaken

I remember seeing a NW DC10 my first time to BOS in 1985 and it was bound for somewhere in Europe.

Quoting zrs70 (Reply 9):
DL considered BOS a mini hub for many years. There was quite a bit of regional service (not regional jet/ props - but rather short haul on mainline): YUL, BDA, BDL, PWM, Presque Isle, ACK, BGR. DCA, PHL. EWR, LGA, JFK, MHT, PHL....

BOS-BDA was on a L10 and the flight went BDL-BOS-BDA. BDL was also a big DL station with several non-stops but I think the BDL-BDA L10 flight always stopped in BOS but may have been nonstop for awhile I can't remember.

Quoting knope2001 (Reply 12):
USAirways -- 120/day total
84 mainline to 18 cities
9 large prop and 27 small prop to 9 more cities

In the mid 90s US Air flew BOS-FRA nonstop on a 767 but it was not profitable so it did not last for too long.

BOS was not only a hub for most airlines at one point, but it was also a crew base for most airlines, including US, AA, DL, I am guessing for NW and UA too but I don't think it was for CO.
 
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OzarkD9S
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RE: BOS's #1 Airline Over The Years

Wed Jan 21, 2015 2:53 pm

Quoting timz (Reply 33):


Different NE, it seems-- mostly Twin Otter.
Quoting maxpower1954 (Reply 34):


Yes, Air New England. Took over many of the Northeast routes after the Delta merger.

Ah, that explains it, Thanks!
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