tommy767
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:23 pm

Quoting MavyWavyATR (Reply 6):

Heard on NPR last night that HAV as an airport isn't ready for the kind of tourist traffic from a facilities level. This is a factor.

Why HAV-IAH and not HAV-IAD? Puzzled.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
MAH4546
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:26 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 94):
You may see NYC, MIA, and ATL having 3 or 4 destinations.

MIA already has service to more than just 3 or 4.

Currently AA flies to Havana, Santiago, Santa Clarita and Camaguey with mainline and Cienfuego and Holguin with Eagle.

There is also service to other airports on the likes of Sun Country, Falcon, etc.

In addition to the above six, likely also Cayo Coco, Cayo largo del Sur, Guantanamo, Manzanillo, Playa Baracoa and Varadero I think will all see service. Cuba is a big, spread out country.
a.
 
incitatus
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 7:56 pm

Quoting bobnwa (Reply 49):
Please explain why that would happen.

No country is more motivated to see the current Cuban government go than the United States. Strong transportation links between US and Cuba do not serve the same purpose as Canada-Cuba. Canadians vacation in Cuba because it is dirty cheap. Sure, Americans will do it too. And along will come Cuban-born and other Americans that will remind Cubans how bad they have it. One Cuban activist, Miriam Celaya said it well that the changes in American policy greatly empower the United States. This is not about letting relatives in Miami visit more or about giving American another cheap vacation option.
I do not consume Murdoch products including the Wall Street Journal
 
YoungDon
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:02 pm

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 100):
Why HAV-IAH and not HAV-IAD? Puzzled.

My guess is that it probably has something to do with Texas having a bigger population of Cuban-Americans than VA, MD, and DC combined, and that IAH offers far more connecting opportunities than does IAD. Whatever IAD could offer, EWR can trump.

Makes perfect sense to me.
 
tommy767
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:10 pm

Quoting YoungDon (Reply 103):

IAD to HAV would be capital-to-capital service. I think it makes perfect sense.

All too often the demographics card is played on this forum as for reasons to start service.
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
delimit
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:13 pm

Quoting incitatus (Reply 102):
No country is more motivated to see the current Cuban government go than the United States. Strong transportation links between US and Cuba do not serve the same purpose as Canada-Cuba. Canadians vacation in Cuba because it is dirty cheap. Sure, Americans will do it too. And along will come Cuban-born and other Americans that will remind Cubans how bad they have it. One Cuban activist, Miriam Celaya said it well that the changes in American policy greatly empower the United States. This is not about letting relatives in Miami visit more or about giving American another cheap vacation option.

Our continued embargo of the government served no purpose other than punishment. Our Cuban strategy was a relic of the Cold War. It served no purpose except to alienate the nation, which, considering the distance between Cuba and the US, is just stupid.

As for Cuba, the current government has seen our relations with China and Vietnam, both at least nominally former Cold War adversaries grow to their benefit. The best strategy for dealing with America is trading with it. It will bring in much needed currency.
 
peteinmiami
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:13 pm

Quoting idlewildchild (Reply 97):
Cuban woman I work with told me today that it costs her $500 to the Cuban Govt every time she enters the country because she has a Cuban and US passport. She's looking forward to not having to pay that extra charge and having nonstop flights from Newark (she lives near there).

Cuban passports are really expensive and if you are a Cuban born person that left Cuba after 1972 you can only enter Cuba with the Cuban passport no matter if you had another citizenship. Just to get a Cuban passport you have to pay around 450 USD dollars (fee for people living in the US set by the Cuban government),then you need a one time visa (multiple entries), and yes I am not making a mistake, even if you are entering Cuba with a Cuban passport, if you live in the US you are required to have a multi entry visa. The cost of that visa is about 90 USD dollars. The passport is valid for six years, but it has to be renewed every two years and each renovation costs about 250 US dollars. So if we add all these numbers, a Cuban passport if you live in the US will cost you $1,040 dollars every six years!!!! Air tickets from Miami to Havana off season are around $400.00 round trip and during high traffic season (Summer, Christmas-New year, Easter) it goes up to 750. Then is the baggage, you pay 50 dollars for each bag, and you are allowed to carry 44 pounds free of charge, after that is 2 dollars per pound, that is on top of the bag fee. So at the end a single trip to Cuba is in average around couple of thousands of dollars when you factor in all the expenses
 
a380787
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:15 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 101):

In addition to the above six, likely also Cayo Coco, Cayo largo del Sur, Guantanamo, Manzanillo, Playa Baracoa and Varadero I think will all see service. Cuba is a big, spread out country.

let's not get ahead of ourselves. There are only 6 cities with city population >200K, and only 1 single city with population >500K (HAV) (I can't find full metro stats)

It would be a minimum of 10-15 years before we see number of airports served (scheduled not charter) reach 8+.
 
slvrblt
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:16 pm

Interestingly enough, I don't see TPA-HAV mentioned, which I find curious because the O/D is there too. Yes, I know traffic can be routed TPA-MIA-HAV but the Ybor city area holds a large Cuban population as does the whole Tampa Bay area. For a while AA ran the charters out of TPA as well as MIA, and those flights did pretty well too. They were eventually suspended but I think that was due more to last year's crackdown with travel restrictions by the Cuban government. Over the Christmas holidays, AA would usually have a 767 or two on the Cuba runs, with a 777 thrown in here and there, but this year it didn't happen.

Heck, I bet EYW-HAV would work, with American Eagle. Wouldn't have to backtrack to MIA.
..everything works out in the end.
 
Burkhard
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:22 pm

Quoting flylku (Reply 33):
So what do airlines do when an aircraft goes MX at a station like this?

Maybe you are not aware that in all development indices, from BIP / capita over Human Development Index to wold bank education index, Cuba is ahead of China?

If Condor, Air Berlin and Air Canada don't see that problem, why should United have?
 
peteinmiami
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:47 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 107):
let's not get ahead of ourselves. There are only 6 cities with city population >200K, and only 1 single city with population >500K (HAV) (I can't find full metro stats)

Havana population is 2,106,146, second only in the Caribbean to Santo Domingo, the second city in Cuba is Santiago de Cuba with a population of 509,143 inhabitants. Holguin is the third city in the island with a population of 346,191 inhabitants followed in number four by Camaguey with a population of 321,992 persons. The main issue with Cuba is that it is a long but narrow islands, a flight from Havana to Santiago de Cuba takes about an hour and a half and about twelve hours by car and a little less by train. So domestic air travel is another issue when moving from the western side of the country to the eastern part

[Edited 2015-01-16 12:52:33]
 
MAH4546
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 8:52 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 107):
let's not get ahead of ourselves. There are only 6 cities with city population >200K, and only 1 single city with population >500K (HAV) (I can't find full metro stats)

Nobody is getting ahead of anything. MIA today has regular, scheduled charter service to about one dozen airports in Cuba. The island has a population of 12M people and is the most populous in the Caribbean.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 107):
It would be a minimum of 10-15 years before we see number of airports served (scheduled not charter) reach 8+.

Let's ignore the fact that there are already about a dozen with charter service to the States and scheduled to Canada. But believe what you wish, but you are wrong. Service to Camaguey, Cienfuegos, Havana, Holguin, Santa Clara, Manzanillo and Varadero will be near-instantaneous and the rest (mostly the tourist islands) won't take long to follow.

Cuba has a poor road network and is incredibly spread out. Air access is important.

[Edited 2015-01-16 12:53:34]
a.
 
Thenoflyzone
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 9:07 pm

Most of what I am reading here relates to a full liberalization of relations between the two nations.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 63):
It would be VERY far off in the future before it's anywhere close to full liberalization.

  

Indeed. Combined with the fact that travel for tourist activity remains prohibited for Americans, and it's unlikely we will see anything more than additional charter flights in the short term.

I can only see a handful of scheduled flights added in the medium term, once the bilateral agreement is tweaked, but that is all. The embargo will have to be completely lifted for any meaningful increase of flights to be added from the States to Cuba.
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jayunited
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:32 pm

Quoting commavia (Reply 41):
Indeed ... United is "leading" the race to issue a meaningless press release:
Quoting enilria (Reply 59):
I also think based upon UA's release we will see an initial feeding frenzy of empty seats going to Cuba. The only carrier I am sure can make money to Cuba in the initial year is AA.

It is not a meanness press release on Flying Together it was later explained in the comments the reason UA chose IAH and EWR is because IAH can capture most of UA's connecting traffic from around the system while the EWR flight if these flights are ever approved would focus on O&D traffic. It really comes down to yields AA owns MIA and while UA does operate charters from MIA to HAV going head to head with AA out of MIA if regularly scheduled service is every approved would be suicide. While south Florida does have the highest number of Cubans Americans there are Cuban Americans all over this country. And make no mistake MIA will not be AA's only gateway to Cuba I fully expect AA to operate flights to cuba from both DFW and JFK as well.

We all know AA will be the number one carrier to HAV in terms of number of daily nonstop flights simply because they own MIA but that doesn't mean UA's plan is meaningless just because UA is choosing not to challenge AA out of MIA. You play to your strengths not your weaknesses both IAH and EWR are strong UA hubs MIA is not UA would loose big time if they tried to operate regularly scheduled service from an AA super hub.
Charter service and regularly schedule service are two totally different types of operations while UA can make money on charter service they wouldn't make a dime on regularly schedule service.
 
commavia
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Fri Jan 16, 2015 11:42 pm

Quoting jayunited (Reply 113):
it was later explained in the comments the reason UA chose IAH and EWR is because IAH can capture most of UA's connecting traffic from around the system while the EWR flight if these flights are ever approved would focus on O&D traffic.

Indeed - many of us suggested essentially as much.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 113):
It really comes down to yields AA owns MIA and while UA does operate charters from MIA to HAV going head to head with AA out of MIA if regularly scheduled service is every approved would be suicide. While south Florida does have the highest number of Cubans Americans there are Cuban Americans all over this country. And make no mistake MIA will not be AA's only gateway to Cuba I fully expect AA to operate flights to cuba from both DFW and JFK as well.
Quoting jayunited (Reply 113):
We all know AA will be the number one carrier to HAV in terms of number of daily nonstop flights simply because they own MIA

Agreed - couldn't have said it better.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 113):
but that doesn't mean UA's plan is meaningless

Nobody said United's plan was meaningless - only it's press statement.
 
DTWPurserBoy
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:13 am

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 4):
These guys have to remember that there are very limited hotel space in Cuba

Not so. While we were sitting on our hands, the Canadians, French, Germans and basically the rest of the world have built beautiful 4-5 star hotels.

Once American companies get in there and start to built the prices will drop from the $5-600.00 per night range to something more manageable.

It only took us half a century to figure out that we were losing out on a fabulous business opportunity 90 miles away. The rest of the world profited at our expense.
Qualified on Concorde/B707/B720/B727/B737/B747/B757/B767/B777/DC-8/DC-9/DC-10/A319/A320/A330/MD-88-90
 
ltbewr
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:03 am

Perhaps we may see short-term (1-2 years) an expansion of charter services from MIA, but also from EWR/JFK to keep control on the number of tourists and business persons entering, Likely Cuba will jack up the fees at airports to land, operate, and just entry/departure taxes on passengers to go into 'general' taxes to increase government revenues.
 
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flylku
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:04 am

Quoting Burkhard (Reply 109):
Maybe you are not aware that in all development indices, from BIP / capita over Human Development Index to wold bank education index, Cuba is ahead of China?

If Condor, Air Berlin and Air Canada don't see that problem, why should United have?

Understood. But, it is my understanding that not just anyone, no matter how technically qualified, can work on an airline's aircraft. The tech-ops folks would know the details but I believe there must be agreements in place first and that of course takes time.
...are we there yet?
 
cubastar
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:36 am

I hope that most of you will forgive me for being a little nostalgic and somewhat off target.

Quoting EASTERN747 (Reply 4):
For God sake they are driving a 1955 PLYMOUTH.



Quite funny, but I drove one of 4 cars from a small town in S. Georgia loaded with high school Spanish students to MIA and then we caught a cruise ship (an old one) to Havana. The difference was that it was a Chevy and not a Plymouth. We all stayed at the old (though new at that time Tropicana Hotel complete with night club entertainment. Lots of fun for a 19 year old.


[quote=longhauler,reply=57]Cuba is an amazing place, a time capsule filled with history. It is worth the effort to see it as soon as possible.


It really was an amazing place; very friendly people, a lot of great sights to visit outside of the city.
Can anyone tell me if the Tropicana in downtown Havana still exists? Of course, Batista was alive and well then, but Fidel was on his way shortly.
 
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longhauler
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:55 am

Quoting flylku (Reply 117):
If Condor, Air Berlin and Air Canada don't see that problem, why should United have?

Understood. But, it is my understanding that not just anyone, no matter how technically qualified, can work on an airline's aircraft. The tech-ops folks would know the details but I believe there must be agreements in place first and that of course takes time.

This is common for any new destination. The airline would have procedures in place for any place it flies for maintenance action, should it be needed.

Air Canada, (for example), has maintenance contracts and contacts in Cuba for all aircraft types that fly there. Presently, that is the A320 series and the E190.
Just because I stopped arguing, doesn't mean I think you are right. It just means I gave up!
 
guyanam
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:17 am

Quoting incitatus (Reply 15):

The old and angry exile population is increasingly irrelevant. There is a more recent Cuban immigrant population who are economic, and not political refugees, and who maintain strong ties with their families in Cuba. Increasingly Americans no longer care about Castro as the Cold War has ended, and concerns switch more towards Islamist terrorists. And within FL a growing Cuban and West Indian population, who vote solidly Democratic, as well as American migrants from the North East, who lean Democratic, has diluted the Cuban exile GOP vote. Cubans no longer vote as monolithically as they once did.


All this to say that once Obama goes restrictions on Cuba will disappear quickly. The business elites who support the GOP are eager to pursue business opportunities in Cuba. This is regardless as to whether the next president is a GOP or a Democrat.

Quoting Abeam79 (Reply 20):

Definitely SJU HAV. Tons of Puerto Ricans will visit Cuba.

Quoting peteinmiami (Reply 24):

Apparently those hotels enjoy very high occupancy rates, especially in the winter season so there is not necessarily enough space in the better quality hotels to accommodate significant increases in US visitors.

Quoting andy33 (Reply 26):

The US has a whole different relationship with Cuba than do others. Much of the rest of the world loves Castro merely because he stands up to the Americans. They ignore the fact that he runs Cuba almost as tightly as do the North Koreans and that Cuba's economy is a shambles despite massive energy subsidies from Venezuela (likely to end soon) that aren't available to other nations, and the fact that the USA is the only major nation which restricts trade (and yet is a major trading partner due to the massive food exports to that island).
 
infinit
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:28 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 10):

That's what I said about Myanmar when they 'came out' about 4 years ago and now Yangon is rapidly becoming the next Bangkok. I had better visit Cuba soon!
 
airbazar
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 2:21 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 120):

All this to say that once Obama goes restrictions on Cuba will disappear quickly.

I think restrictions will disappear before Obama leaves office. The cat is out of the bag. Just like we saw with the fall of the Berlin wall I have a feeling that things will move very fast from here on out. I wouldn't be surprised to see all travel sanctions lifted by the Summer. As you pointed out, the tide has turned. More Cuban Americans are in favor of lifting the ban than those who are against and with the GOP in charge now, in Washington, they will want those votes in the next presidential election.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 120):
The US has a whole different relationship with Cuba than do others. Much of the rest of the world loves Castro merely because he stands up to the Americans.

The rest of the world doesn't love Castro. They just have a much more pragmatic approach to Cuba. To put it simply, the rest of the world doesn't give a hoot about Castro.
 
maxpower1954
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:09 pm

Sorry if I missed this DOT notice; no grandfather rights for U.S. airlines Cuba service.

http://aviationblog.dallasnews.com/2...he-issue-of-u-s-cuba-flights.html/
 
Apprentice
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:26 pm

Quoting cubastar (Reply 118):

Tropicana is not in downtown Havana. It's some 10 miles from there, but it's not complicated to get there.
But as the rest of the country. Tropicana is just a shade of 1958's one, including The Show
“An4; IL18; IL6; Tu5; D10; MD11; MD83; B32; B34: B37; B744; B748; B752; B763; B772; B773; B77W; A320; A332; A333; A342; A343.
"A NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor (a wise man)
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Apprentice
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:31 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 119):

It's not the same situation. To give maintenance to an US's registered a/c you must have an FAA issued license..
Technician working europeans and canadian planes, do it w/ cuban licenses covered by an EASA (european) maintenance agreement. Technical level is high, good formation and expirience, but no licenses...
“An4; IL18; IL6; Tu5; D10; MD11; MD83; B32; B34: B37; B744; B748; B752; B763; B772; B773; B77W; A320; A332; A333; A342; A343.
"A NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor (a wise man)
“CUBANA” 90 years Flying”
 
idlewildchild
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:41 pm

Quoting peteinmiami (Reply 106):
Cuban passports are really expensive and if you are a Cuban born person that left Cuba after 1972 you can only enter Cuba with the Cuban passport no matter if you had another citizenship. Just to get a Cuban passport you have to pay around 450 USD dollars (fee for people living in the US set by the Cuban government),then you need a one time visa (multiple entries), and yes I am not making a mistake, even if you are entering Cuba with a Cuban passport, if you live in the US you are required to have a multi entry visa. The cost of that visa is about 90 USD dollars. The passport is valid for six years, but it has to be renewed every two years and each renovation costs about 250 US dollars. So if we add all these numbers, a Cuban passport if you live in the US will cost you $1,040 dollars every six years!!!! Air tickets from Miami to Havana off season are around $400.00 round trip and during high traffic season (Summer, Christmas-New year, Easter) it goes up to 750. Then is the baggage, you pay 50 dollars for each bag, and you are allowed to carry 44 pounds free of charge, after that is 2 dollars per pound, that is on top of the bag fee. So at the end a single trip to Cuba is in average around couple of thousands of dollars when you factor in all the expenses

Yes, thank you for the clarity. I hope this moves quickly so she can reduce the amount of money that she pays to get there. She also mentioned that when sending money there's a ridiculous government tax for that too.

I'm excited for my Cuban friends (my boss left when she was 7 in a very traumatic way), though I know some of the older ones are upset about things changing, it's true the younger generation, I'd say 50 and below, are way more open minded and hopeful about reconnecting to the island. My boss said, however, that some of the older folks believe they're going to get their land back, which, of course, is nuts.

It'll be great to watch the traffic blossom with UA/B6/AA/DL onto the island and would be ironic if HAV became a Caribbean hub as SJU once was.
 
slvrblt
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 4:16 pm

Quoting longhauler (Reply 119):
The airline would have procedures in place for any place it flies for maintenance action, should it be needed.

Air Canada, (for example), has maintenance contracts and contacts in Cuba for all aircraft types that fly there. Presently, that is the A320 series and the E190.

Mmmmm....perhaps and I'm sure they're capable. But I don't think they can work on American airplanes. That is to say, from the USA. I know AA carries a deadheading mechanic on every single flight to Cuba.
..everything works out in the end.
 
guyanam
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:11 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 122):

FACT. Cuba is a dictatorship where the bulk of the population live in fear, face petty harassment on a daily basis, and lack the ability to do much about it, as such action will be seen as "counter revolutionary".

It is also run by a very inefficient bureaucracy and usually doesn't allow 100% privately owned major ventures. US investors don't come from a culture of public/private investment so will balk at this.

At the end of the day what will ultimately impact airlift into Cuba will be how many US business people travel there. If they encounter meddling bureaucrats demanding their cut then they will not invest.

If they don't invest then US leisure travel will not reach its potential because as of now there is a dire shortage of the type of hotel facilities amenable to the average US traveler. If an additional 2 million US tourists visit Cuba, on top of the 3 million tourists which Cuba already receives, there isn't any where to put them. increase in hotel rooms will be needed, unless Americans confine their travel to the summer when fewer Canadians and northern Europeans are there.

While the removal of the embargo will be a critical step to stimulate US investment in the hotel sector in Cuba, there are other barriers which will ultimately determine the extent to which US travelers visit Cuba after their initial curiosity about that island has been satisfied.

So Cuba will be greatly transformed as it engages with the USA. We will see of it will be for the better, or for the worst, but business as usual will not continue.
 
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PA727
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:45 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 89):

go ask any journalism organization and see how they feel about the usage of fake quotations.

but since they're being held at a much higher standard, I don't blame you.

Dude, chill. Something personal here?

Feel as though commavia's comments are pretty non-controversial. AA will have an advantage in MIA when scheduled service begins. UA's media statement meant nothing other than revealing plans for when scheduled flights are allowed. Seems pretty simple and easy to agree upon.

I would even say had AA made a statement saying they plan to start service from MIA/JFK-HAV, commavia would find it just as meaningless as the UA statement.

No bias here, just conversation.
 
Viscount724
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:42 am

Quoting JU068 (Reply 28):
For those interested, here is the current Air Service Agreement between the U.S. and Cuba. It dates back to 1953.

It's the last agreement, There is no "current" agreement. The old agreement is meaningless when there have been no diplomatic relations for half a century. A new bilateral will have to be negotiated and then it's up to each country to designate carriers to operate the routes covered by the new agreement, depending on whatever restrictions it may include. Of course if it's Open Skies, anyone can operate.
 
Andy33
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:02 am

Quoting Apprentice (Reply 125):
It's not the same situation. To give maintenance to an US's registered a/c you must have an FAA issued license..
Technician working europeans and canadian planes, do it w/ cuban licenses covered by an EASA (european) maintenance agreement. Technical level is high, good formation and expirience, but no licenses...

That seems clear, but what happens if one of the considerable number of entirely legal and authorised charters to Cuba by airlines such as AA requires mx before it can take off to return to the US. This situation must have happened at some time as the charters have been running for years.

Are you also saying that if a US registered aircraft suffers some kind of failure in Europe, it can't be worked on by an engineer with an European-issued licence (I thought there were reciprocal arrangements)? On the face of it that would prevent an Airbus AOG team working on an Airbus-built aircraft if it was US-registered, which can't be the case, surely?
Or is it simply that Cuban licences aren't recognised because the authority that issues them isn't recognised?
 
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antoniemey
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:04 am

Quoting andy33 (Reply 131):
Or is it simply that Cuban licences aren't recognised because the authority that issues them isn't recognised?

That would be my guess.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
Apprentice
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RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:45 pm

Quoting andy33 (Reply 131):

Cuban licenses are recognized as an ICAO type license worldwide, as almost every other country's
AA carry a mechanic o/b each flights to Cuba.
To "Release for Service" an "N" aircraft, as per 14 CFR Part 121.379 b., a "Certificate Holder" is requiered. Certificate holder is defined in 14 CFR Part 65. In that case, an A&P licensed mechanic. And that goes for any US registerd a/c anywhere.
US companies use to have their team for outstation maintenance, in some cases they contract mechanics, but only FAA A&P ones may sign a Release..

If an aircraft, for instance, suffers an impact from a truck while in CDG, plane structure may be repaired by AF Industries (heavy maintenance provider), which by the way is a FAA 145 Approved Repair Station., they will do the job and they will answer in the log book , with an entry corresponding to structure repair performed. After all works are finished, a FAA A&P Mechanic must sign a "Release to Service" statement in the log book, as a way to assure the outbound crew and US authorities that all works performed in this aircraft, including the structure repair, are performed IAW the law (14CFR) and that the airplane is fitted to flight.

Rgds
“An4; IL18; IL6; Tu5; D10; MD11; MD83; B32; B34: B37; B744; B748; B752; B763; B772; B773; B77W; A320; A332; A333; A342; A343.
"A NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor (a wise man)
“CUBANA” 90 years Flying”
 
MadameConcorde
Posts: 9265
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2007 5:08 pm

RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:13 pm

Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 7):
This goes WAY beyond deregulation. Politics Politics Politics.

I can see Cuba becoming the next Puerto Rico or Hawaii in the future... but that's a different story...

There's going to be lots of money to be made off tourism, construction of mega resorts, super luxury hotels all managed by US chains, so many beautiful places on the island.

They'll upgrade several airports and bring in lots of people from all the major hubs.
United will start, other airlines will follow.

For the time being there's plenty of home stays and guest houses where you can give your money to the locals rather than the chain businesses.

     
There was a better way to fly it was called Concorde
 
airbazar
Posts: 9952
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2003 11:12 pm

RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:27 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 128):

FACT. Cuba is a dictatorship where the bulk of the population live in fear, face petty harassment on a daily basis, and lack the ability to do much about it, as such action will be seen as "counter revolutionary"

FACT. China, albeit not a dictatorship, is also very much a Communist country ruled in much of the same way as Cuba is. Some of our best allies have been dictatorships, but that's a whole other topic of discussion  
Quoting guyanam (Reply 128):
At the end of the day what will ultimately impact airlift into Cuba will be how many US business people travel there. If they encounter meddling bureaucrats demanding their cut then they will not invest.

Right, because that's not how things work in India, and Nigeria, and many other countries where U.S. businesses are invested.  

[Edited 2015-01-18 06:28:40]
 
dispatchguy
Posts: 627
Joined: Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:08 am

RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:12 pm

My question is there a sufficient infrastructure in MUHA/HAV for all-cargo operations?
Nobody screws you better than an airline job!
 
Apprentice
Posts: 778
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:51 pm

RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:48 pm

Quoting dispatchguy (Reply 136):

There is a sort of Cargo Terminal , in fact just a warehouse and a cargo ramp, between Terminal 3 (International Flts) and T-2, US Flts.
Loading equipment was always a problem. Second hand, old and w/o spares/proper mx. Same applies for pax planes loading equipment, and all a/c handling equipment.
Last time I checked, there were not prepared for a lift of US sanctions.

Rgds
“An4; IL18; IL6; Tu5; D10; MD11; MD83; B32; B34: B37; B744; B748; B752; B763; B772; B773; B77W; A320; A332; A333; A342; A343.
"A NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor (a wise man)
“CUBANA” 90 years Flying”
 
Tristarsteve
Posts: 3641
Joined: Tue Nov 22, 2005 11:04 pm

RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:11 pm

Quoting Apprentice (Reply 133):
If an aircraft, for instance, suffers an impact from a truck while in CDG, plane structure may be repaired by AF Industries (heavy maintenance provider), which by the way is a FAA 145 Approved Repair Station., they will do the job and they will answer in the log book , with an entry corresponding to structure repair performed. After all works are finished, a FAA A&P Mechanic must sign a "Release to Service" statement in the log book, as a way to assure the outbound crew and US authorities that all works performed in this aircraft, including the structure repair, are performed IAW the law (14CFR) and that the airplane is fitted to flight.

Don't you read the answers to your question in Tech Ops??
Do you really think that there is an A and P mechanic sitting in Paris to check that the Mechanics that work for AF actually work to the rules of their own FAA Repair Station rules? No. An FAA Repair station can sign off an N registered plane all by itself. It doesn't need an A and P to arrive and check the work!
 
Apprentice
Posts: 778
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2013 12:51 pm

RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:23 pm

Quoting Tristarsteve (Reply 138):

We have differents views. And of course I read and check my answers before post them.

Foreign FAA 145 RS is authorized to sign a repair done to an US registered aircraft by itself, agree.(14 CFR Part 145 .157. Please note: Foreign RS is authorized to sign ONLY an "Article", You may find definition of "article" and "product" in 14CFR Part 21) Foreign FAA 145 Repair Station IS NOT authorized to sign a Release to Service for flight to an US registered a/c after repair is completed. Point.

After a job is completed and signed by RS, plane is still no authorized to flight. A "Release for Service" is requiered and only an FAA A&P Mechanic is authorized to sign it. Again, please refer to 14CFR Part 121.379 b)

And yes, there are several Mechanics with FAA A&P in Paris, must of them french people, they are not sitting there, they provide maintenance. Delta/AA/ etc have their own outstation base there, with several mechanics. In fact each company have several outstaition diseminated in different airports with own personnel. In case of vacation or sickness, personnel from one station is moved to the one in short supply of mech, to assue always an A&P is available to cover flights. And yes, I have good relation w a mechanic who work in CDG for one of US' airliners outstation.

Now for EASA is different, that is the reason that for some europeans is so difficult to understand . Talking about HAV, there is an outstation, EASA 145 approved, who uses only cuban mechanics that have ONLY cuban licenses and who sign any european plane that arrives to Cuba. They WILL NOT be authorized to sign US's planes, unless the get FAA A&P licenses. Point.

Here in the states, I used to sign european planes w/ my A&P license, covered by my then company, an FAA 145 RS & EASA 145 RS. It is not necesary to have an EASA license to sign a Sweeden plane In US, it's mandatory to have an A&P to Release any US's registered plane there.

The reason? Don't know but my take: there are places where beans counters take decisions related to safety of flight...

Rgds
“An4; IL18; IL6; Tu5; D10; MD11; MD83; B32; B34: B37; B744; B748; B752; B763; B772; B773; B77W; A320; A332; A333; A342; A343.
"A NO" is a positive answer., "DON'T KNOW" is not. My Tutor (a wise man)
“CUBANA” 90 years Flying”
 
DDR
Posts: 1686
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:11 pm

This thread is amusing. Anyone who actually knows the airline business cannot dispute the fact that AA will be the king on the MIA-HAV route. The huge MIA hub will certainly give them an advantage when route authorities are handed out. No question.

Other airlines wil try to get authority to fly from their hubs to Cuba as well. I can see DL from ATL and JFK, UA from EWR and IAH, etc. the big question is however, how many frequencies will be allowed by the U.S. and Cuban governments. This I think will determine how many other airlines are able to serve Cuba. But because of its massive MIA hub, AA is guaranteed to be a major player. In fact, I would not be surprised that during the first year or so, that American and Cubana are the only two carriers allowed to operate scheduled service.

I can also see the Cubans requiring reductions in charter flights for each new scheduled service. The last thing Cuba wants is the island being overran by Yankees.

I also think people are over dramatizing the shortage of hotel rooms. Most Americans and Canadians don't stay in four and five star hotels when vacationing abroad because those hotels are just too expensive. Cuba's hotels will do just fine. Sure more will be built, but you have to ask why would they build tons more hotels when, just like the airlines do with seats, they can manage available capacity by charging higher prices for fewer rooms. Plus this would help the infrastructure my limiting the total number of visitors at any one time.
Of course, just my opinions...
 
silentbob
Posts: 1586
Joined: Tue Aug 15, 2006 1:26 pm

RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 6:49 pm

Quoting SLVRBLT (Reply 108):
Heck, I bet EYW-HAV would work, with American Eagle. Wouldn't have to backtrack to MIA

That doesn't seem likely to me, though it would be cool to see the first international route from the US resurrected.

Quoting DTWPurserBoy (Reply 115):
Not so. While we were sitting on our hands, the Canadians, French, Germans and basically the rest of the world have built beautiful 4-5 star hotels.

Once American companies get in there and start to built the prices will drop from the $5-600.00 per night range to something more manageable.

It only took us half a century to figure out that we were losing out on a fabulous business opportunity 90 miles away. The rest of the world profited at our expense.

A lot of US companies had their assets seized by the government during the revolution. Those companies need to be compensated in some way for those losses and that should not be overlooked in regards to the normalization of relations between the two countries.

Quoting guyanam (Reply 128):
So Cuba will be greatly transformed as it engages with the USA. We will see of it will be for the better, or for the worst, but business as usual will not continue.

It will be interesting to see how long it takes the US to supplant Russia as the principal source of subsidies to Cuba.
 
charlienorth
Posts: 1069
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2006 6:24 am

RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 7:45 pm

Quoting flylku (Reply 117):
Understood. But, it is my understanding that not just anyone, no matter how technically qualified, can work on an airline's aircraft. The tech-ops folks would know the details but I believe there must be agreements in place first and that of course takes time.

Pretty easy process, an airline would contract with a local operation based on experience and training of techs, the training dept. would do a quick procedures training intro, Q.A would do a check of facilities and ensure ability to perform on call tasks and any work performed under the direction of maintenance control, anything major would be a field trip by the airlines own technicians.

A couple things..UAL did not announce service, they spoke of what they most likely would do. The second thing is the whole ex-pat travel thing we see too often on A-net is B.S...If so we would be running a ton of fllights of MSP to Scandinavia and Detroit to the mideast, ORD to Serbia,just doesn't happen, U.S. to Cuba will be big foa a while because it's been forbidden,people will go until they get tired of out dated rooms and amenities and go back to Cancun, Punta Cana and other warm destinations at that Cuba will need to decide between being quaint or Cancun...just my opinion.

[Edited 2015-01-18 11:51:22]
Work hard fly right..don't understand it
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting airbazar (Reply 135):

China has a well developed private sector. Cuba doesn't. China openly embraces a vibrant private sector. Cuba doesn't really.
Quoting DDR (Reply 140):


Cuba has 3,000,000 tourists already and their hotels also have high occupancy rates. Where will another 2,000,000 tourists stay? .

So more resort facilities will need to be built. US investment will be key to whether this happens.

AA will definitely dominate Cuba. AA will have flights not only to HAV and VRA, but also to at least 5 other Cuban cities, mainly fed through its MIA hub. Eagle will also fly to some of the smaller Cuban markets, catering to the VFR segment.

Other carriers might have a tougher time justifying service to secondary tier Cuban cities. But every US carrier will be in Cuba, even if just to HAV and maybe VRA and Santiago.


As to whether the Cuban govt can "control" US activity?

The US govt WILL NOT subsidize Cuba. though will include eventually into NAFTA. Venezuela can no longer offer "free" oil to Cuba.

So for Cuba to benefit from interactions with the USA, they will have to be "investor friendly". And they will have to offer goods and services that meet the quality requirements of US consumers.


Cuba hasn't had to compete for over 50 years. It has grown inefficient because it has depended on subsidies, first from the USSR, and then from Venezuela. Well this era is over, which is why they are more eager than ever to regularize their relationships with the USA.

I forecast that 10 years from now Cuba will resemble the DR, though with a considerably more educated and skilled population.
 
User avatar
LAX772LR
Posts: 12837
Joined: Sun Nov 09, 2014 11:06 pm

RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Sun Jan 18, 2015 11:48 pm

Quoting DDR (Reply 140):
The last thing Cuba wants is the island being overran by Yankees.

Your racist comment notwithstanding, oh please, do tell us why?
This should be amusing, to say the least.


Quoting DDR (Reply 140):
Most Americans and Canadians don't stay in four and five star hotels when vacationing abroad because those hotels are just too expensive.

We don't? How interesting. I won't stay in anything less... why bother, when you can usually Priceline a 4star for cheaper than a Holiday Inn?

But by all means, show us the empirical evidence you used to come to this conclusion.


Quoting DDR (Reply 140):
Of course, just my opinions.

Don't worry, no one would confuse what you just wrote, with actual facts.  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
Viscount724
Posts: 19316
Joined: Thu Oct 12, 2006 7:32 pm

RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Mon Jan 19, 2015 2:04 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 144):
Quoting DDR (Reply 140):
Most Americans and Canadians don't stay in four and five star hotels when vacationing abroad because those hotels are just too expensive.

We don't? How interesting. I won't stay in anything less... why bother, when you can usually Priceline a 4star for cheaper than a Holiday Inn?

But by all means, show us the empirical evidence you used to come to this conclusion.

This thread is about Cuba which has very few hotels or resorts that meet international 4 and 5-star standards.
http://news.yahoo.com/obamas-cuba-po...y-hotel-hand-towels-214955461.html
 
guyanam
Posts: 3076
Joined: Thu Mar 04, 2010 6:21 pm

RE: United Announces Plans For Cuba

Mon Jan 19, 2015 6:36 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 144):

You will definitely stay in a 4 star in Cuba as it is equivalent to a 3 star elsewhere in the Caribbean.

The issue isn't that Cuba has outdated rooms, as there has been construction by the Spanish and others in the last decade or so. Its that there aren't enough 3 star hotels to accommodate as many Americans who might want to visit. And Cuba's creaky bureaucracy and paranoia about US investors will ensure that construction of new facilities under US brands will be quite slow.


In the early 90s people claimed that the DR wouldn't attract US visitors as their service standards were low and facilities sub par, much like Cuba today. They now attract more stay over US visitors than any other Caribbean destination, jumping ahead of PR, Jamaica, and The Bahamas. I will add that the growth of Punta Cana didn't affect Cancun or Nassau or Jamaica, which have all enjoyed continued growth. Canadians also visit Mexico, The Bahamas and Jamaica, in addition to Cuba.

So folks shouldn't count Cuba out. Nor should others go to the other extreme and predict the demise of tourism elsewhere.


http://www.tripadvisor.com/Hotels-g147270-Cuba-Hotels.html

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