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KarelXWB
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KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:02 am

KLM will fly its brand new 787-9 to BAH on October 26, 2015. It's not going to be a direct connection however, the jet will make a stopover in AUH.

AMS-AUH-BAH

http://oi60.tinypic.com/1feav7.jpg

In addition KLM-CEO Pieter Elbers said to 787-9 will also fly to Cairo, Xiamen, Hong Kong, Guayaquil, Vancouver, Havana, Chengdu, Tokio Narita, Rio de Janeiro and Fukuoka. This will be achieved when more aircraft enter the fleet.

The 787 fleet will be named after flower species and will feature the revised livery as introduced with the Embraer fleet.

Source
http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/nieuw...rste-klm-787-9-vlucht-naar-bahrein
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DarkSnowyNight
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:26 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):

The 787 fleet will be named after flower species and will feature the revised livery as introduced with the Embraer fleet.

Can't say I'm surprised, I think that will eventually be the entire fleet...

Having that been said, I still can't wait to see it. This will be the best looking 787 yet.
"Nous ne sommes pas infectés. Il n'y a pas d'infection ici..."
 
behramjee
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:31 am

what will be the configuration please of KLs B789s?
 
columba
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:52 am

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 1):

Having that been said, I still can't wait to see it. This will be the best looking 787 yet.

Me too, any idea when the first one will be delivered. The 787-9 for me i the best looking of the new widebody twins very elegant.
It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
 
TC957
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:16 am

Quoting columba (Reply 3):
any idea when the first one will be delivered

The 1st KLM 789 is l/n 356, so I'd say it'll come in time for the start of the winter 2015/6 schedules.
 
C010T3
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:35 am

Has KLM released their proposed seat maps for the 789?
 
Joost
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:03 pm

Quoting behramjee (Reply 2):
what will be the configuration please of KLs B789s?

Per wiki, 30C/48Y/216M, so 294 seats in total. That's slightly more seats than their 333s. It means that the section between L1 and L2 will be the business class section.

Today, the rumour was also confirmed that KLMs 787s, as well as their A350s, will feature the 1-2-1 Reverse Herringbone 'Cirrus' business class seat, which is now also being installed on AF 777s and is known from CX, US, DL (330, 747).

Quoting TC957 (Reply 4):
The 1st KLM 789 is l/n 356, so I'd say it'll come in time for the start of the winter 2015/6 schedules.

Indeed, the first will be delivered in Oct 2015 and will be introduced with the winter schedule.

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):
In addition KLM-CEO Pieter Elbers said to 787-9 will also fly to Cairo, Xiamen, Hong Kong, Guayaquil, Vancouver, Havana, Chengdu, Tokio Narita, Rio de Janeiro and Fukuoka. This will be achieved when more aircraft enter the fleet.

No real surprises here, but it will make the W15 and S16 schedules very different from the current schedules.

XMN, GYE, GIG, CAI and FUK are all 777 destinations, and except for GYE, less than daily. By using the 787, they can increase frequencies without (drastically) increasing the amount of seats.

On HKG and CTS, the 787 will replace the 747 combi's which are being phased out. HAV and YVR are 330-destinations.

For NRT, KLM has 10 weekly frequencies available but has been using only 7 or 8 during the last few years. In W15, it will become a 777-destination (77W + 772) which will dramatically increase the amount of seats offered compared to the current 74M-flights (some 744). I wonder if KL will use the 789s to increase NRT again.

It will be interesting to watch where the 777s will be going. SFO? CUR? NBO? LAX?
 
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EPA001
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:11 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 6):
XMN, GYE, GIG, CAI and FUK are all 777 destinations, and except for GYE, less than daily. By using the 787, they can increase frequencies without (drastically) increasing the amount of seats.

I am guessing you are meaning here that they will fly with additional B787's complementary of the B777's already flying that route? So that they can offer these destinations on a daily basis? Otherwise I do not really understand your remark since the B777 being swapped for B787's would not change frequencies or add additional seats on these routes. Hope you can clarify that for me.  
 
na
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:20 pm

I understand that in general the 789s are replacing some of the oldest 744s, despite their extreme size difference. Does this also signal the phase-out of some of the 77Es in a few years? The 789 can practically do all what the 77E can do, at much lower cost.

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 1):
This will be the best looking 787 yet.

Beside Royal Jordanian and Etihad.

Quoting columba (Reply 3):
The 787-9 for me i the best looking of the new widebody twins very elegant.

Agreed. The 789 is in my eyes the best looking twinjet ever.
 
Joost
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:36 pm

Quoting EPA001 (Reply 7):
Otherwise I do not really understand your remark since the B777 being swapped for B787's would not change frequencies or add additional seats on these routes. Hope you can clarify that for me

I mean that they might swap 4x weekly 772 by 5x weekly 789, for example. KLM has expressed repeatedly that if possible, a daily flight is preferred as it increases the appeal to business travelers.

Currently, for KLM, the 772 is the only available aircraft for long routes like HGH or GIG, although it's actually slightly too big. KLMs 330s aren't equipped for B-market (12+ hrs) flights (no crew rest) so the 787-9 is the perfect aircraft here.
 
LJ
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 12:53 pm

Quoting KarelXWB (Thread starter):

In addition KLM-CEO Pieter Elbers said to 787-9 will also fly to Cairo, Xiamen, Hong Kong, Guayaquil, Vancouver, Havana, Chengdu, Tokio Narita, Rio de Janeiro and Fukuoka. This will be achieved when more aircraft enter the fleet

Shouldn't Quito be on the list as well as the 777 currently flies AMS-UIO-GYE-AMS? Or will they change their ops to Ecuador (thus will UIO and GYE get a dedicated flight? Will be interesting to see what they'll do.
 
factsonly
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:01 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 10):
Shouldn't Quito be on the list as well as the 777 currently flies AMS-UIO-GYE-AMS?

Look at the link, I believe it provides the answer.
 
kl911
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 1:02 pm

Quoting na (Reply 8):
I understand that in general the 789s are replacing some of the oldest 744s, despite their extreme size difference.

Don't forget most of KLM's 747's are combi version. Not full pax.
 
kl838
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:24 pm

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 1):
Can't say I'm surprised, I think that will eventually be the entire fleet...

Having that been said, I still can't wait to see it. This will be the best looking 787 yet.

I agree  
Quoting na (Reply 8):
I understand that in general the 789s are replacing some of the oldest 744s, despite their extreme size difference. Does this also signal the phase-out of some of the 77Es in a few years? The 789 can practically do all what the 77E can do, at much lower cost.

The introduction of the 789 would be beginning of the end of KL's 74M aircraft. There are only 5 full pax 744s in the fleet, and I believe those would be replaced with the A359. It will be a very sad day when KL no longer has a single 747 in the fleet. The 747 has been an integral and iconic part of their fleet and branding.

Quoting Joost (Reply 6):
Today, the rumour was also confirmed that KLMs 787s, as well as their A350s, will feature the 1-2-1 Reverse Herringbone 'Cirrus' business class seat, which is now also being installed on AF 777s and is known from CX, US, DL (330, 747).

That is great to know that now AF-KL-DL would have a similar set up for business. I have yet to try the new AF seat, but it is definitely a step up from previous business seats. I wonder whether the seat would be designed by Hella Jongerius as well. I wonder why didn't they select the Cirrus to begin with on the rest of the aircraft, instead of the Diamond seat.
 
mdavies06
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:28 pm

The use of 789 on HKG and NRT is quite surprising - isn't the cargo capacity very different between 74E versus 789? Does KLM flies cargo flights to these destinations?
 
migair54
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:43 pm

Very sad, I was hoping to see them early in DAR rouroute.
 
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fallap
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 3:55 pm

Another cramped 3-3-3 787 to avoid then.
Ex grease monkey buried head to toe inside an F-16M
Now studying Political Science
 
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nimool
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:16 pm

Only why not DXB!? will it be going to dub at some point?
Iran Air, we take you there, we take you back!
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:34 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 9):
KLMs 330s aren't equipped for B-market (12+ hrs) flights (no crew rest) so the 787-9 is the perfect aircraft here.

Indeed, it was confirmed that the KLM 787-9 aircraft will get crew rest areas.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
A388
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 5:58 pm

Quoting na (Reply 8):

I understand that in general the 789s are replacing some of the oldest 744s,

If this is the case I would have expected that KL would send those 787-9's to Curacao but I see lots of other destinations except Curacao...?

A388
 
Joost
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 7:26 pm

Quoting kl838 (Reply 13):
The introduction of the 789 would be beginning of the end of KL's 74M aircraft. There are only 5 full pax 744s in the fleet,

There are seven now, after PH-BFH and -BFY were converted a couple of years ago.

Quoting kl838 (Reply 13):
and I believe those would be replaced with the A359

Not necessarily, although the 359s will replace 747s on some routes. Initially, the 77W was ordered as a replacement. But KLM managed to expand their network quite rapidly and now operates 8x77W and 7x744 in the 400+ seat segment. Three more 77Ws are on order.

Quoting kl838 (Reply 13):
I wonder whether the seat would be designed by Hella Jongerius as well.

Hella Jongerius designed the fabrics and colours, but the actual seats come from B/E aerospace. Elbers has confirmed that KLM will have the seats in KLM style, so that probably means they will be use the same fabrics and colours as in the 747 and 777.

Quoting kl838 (Reply 13):
I wonder why didn't they select the Cirrus to begin with on the rest of the aircraft, instead of the Diamond seat

It has to do with the 747 upper deck. The Cirrus doesn't really suit a single aisle cabin: only 14 Cirrus can be installed on the upper deck (see DL) versus 20 for the Diamond. Also Lufthansa picked the diamond (748 operator) and DL and AA specifically for the 757 Intl. KLM picked the same seat for the 777 and the 747.

In the 787, as well as 777, 330 and 350, the Cirrus can be installed perfectly.
 
migair54
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:57 pm

Quoting LJ (Reply 10):
Shouldn't Quito be on the list as well as the 777 currently flies AMS-UIO-GYE-AMS? Or will they change their ops to Ecuador (thus will UIO and GYE get a dedicated flight? Will be interesting to see what they'll do.

Difficult to make UIO-AMS direct, and I'm not sure GYM can't make it alone.

Quoting A388 (Reply 19):
If this is the case I would have expected that KL would send those 787-9's to Curacao but I see lots of other destinations except Curacao...?

Curacao is a huge tourist destination so the B77W with 400 seats is very good for it.
 
AF022
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:10 pm

Quoting Joost (Reply 6):
Today, the rumour was also confirmed that KLMs 787s, as well as their A350s, will feature the 1-2-1 Reverse Herringbone 'Cirrus' business class seat, which is now also being installed on AF 777s and is known from CX, US, DL (330, 747).

I'm surprised by this. Didn't they just configure their aircraft in the 2-2-2 angled configuration? I liked that seat.

And is DL moving in that direction too? I absolutely loathe their business seats, the coffin is awful.
 
flanker
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:10 pm

I can't wait to see the 787 in KLM livery!!! Hopefully their entertainment system is better than the 74Ms   
 
A388
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 9:19 pm

Quoting kl838 (Reply 13):
The 747 has been an integral and iconic part of their fleet and branding.

That is the old vision. Welcome to the new world my friend  
Quoting kl838 (Reply 13):
There are only 5 full pax 744s in the fleet, and I believe those would be replaced with the A359.

Somehow I still think the 789 will be the aircraft which will replace the 744 full pax routes.

A388
 
Azure
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 10:28 pm

Quoting A388 (Reply 19):
If this is the case I would have expected that KL would send those 787-9's to Curacao but I see lots of other destinations except Curacao...?

I do not believe the OP's list of destinations is final. KL is to receive 23 787-9, so many more other destinations can be included.
 
Joost
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:12 pm

Quoting AF022 (Reply 22):

I'm surprised by this. Didn't they just configure their aircraft in the 2-2-2 angled configuration? I liked that seat.
AF and KL decided to have the same cabin equipment along both airlines, for the 787 and 350. So they had to choose between either the B/E Diamond or the Cirrus. They chose the latter.

Quoting AF022 (Reply 22):
And is DL moving in that direction too? I absolutely loathe their business seats, the coffin is awful.

What aircraft type are you referring to? DL has the Virgin-style herringbone on it's 777s, and the reverse herringbone Cirrus on the 330 and 747.

Quoting mdavies06 (Reply 14):
The use of 789 on HKG and NRT is quite surprising - isn't the cargo capacity very different between 74E versus 789? Does KLM flies cargo flights to these destinations?

The fact that KLM is currently flying the 74M to these destinations, doesn't mean it's the perfect aircraft for the route - it's just the best they have now. (which goes for any airline, not just KLM).

The cargo market between SE Asia and Europe is very saturated, caused by the ME3 and the fast growing Chinese carriers. By replacing the 74M by a 789, KLM offers a similar amount of seats, but less cargo (at lower trip costs!), which might actually be a better fit in current market conditions.

[Edited 2015-01-17 15:19:36]
 
kl911
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:23 pm

Quoting AF022 (Reply 22):
And is DL moving in that direction too? I absolutely loathe their business seats, the coffin is awful.

How about being grateful you can fly business class? Not every hardworking man can afford that. It never amazes me here that people complain about C and F class travel..
 
Viscount724
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sat Jan 17, 2015 11:32 pm

Quoting Fallap (Reply 16):
Another cramped 3-3-3 787 to avoid then.

Which means you'll be avoiding all 787s except JAL's and some of ANA's
 
aerokiwi
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sun Jan 18, 2015 1:55 am

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 1):
This will be the best looking 787 yet.
Quoting na (Reply 8):
Beside Royal Jordanian and Etihad.

Royal Jordanian's is magnificent, and proves you don't have to go all wavy with the cheatline to fit the 787 lines. Really unimpressed with the gimmicky new KLM look.
 
kl838
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sun Jan 18, 2015 2:25 am

Quoting A388 (Reply 19):

Quoting na (Reply 8):

I understand that in general the 789s are replacing some of the oldest 744s,

If this is the case I would have expected that KL would send those 787-9's to Curacao but I see lots of other destinations except Curacao...?

I would be more interested to see what they send to SXM after the phase out of the 744. Would the 789 be perfect for the job, or would they require another triangle route? Air Caraibes operates the A330 nonstop to Orly, don't see why the 789 should have a problem.

Quoting Joost (Reply 20):
There are seven now, after PH-BFH and -BFY were converted a couple of years ago.

Didn't know they converted both, I thought PH-BFH was converted to full pax and then back to combi! Thanks for the update.

Quoting Joost (Reply 20):
Not necessarily, although the 359s will replace 747s on some routes. Initially, the 77W was ordered as a replacement. But KLM managed to expand their network quite rapidly and now operates 8x77W and 7x744 in the 400+ seat segment. Three more 77Ws are on order.

So a total of 11 77W, and that leaves a remainder of 4 744s that would need replacing (assuming its a 1 for 1 replacement) How many A350's is KL taking?

Quoting Joost (Reply 20):
Hella Jongerius designed the fabrics and colours, but the actual seats come from B/E aerospace. Elbers has confirmed that KLM will have the seats in KLM style, so that probably means they will be use the same fabrics and colours as in the 747 and 777.

Yes, I understood that B/E Aerospace designs and builds the seat, but I believe there is some flexibility in the design by the airlines. This could be seen with the AF Cirrus compared to DL's, and even the KL Diamond seat is quite different from UA's. Love the colours she uses in the cabin, the previous cabin felt very standard and 1990's office like with the blue walls and such.

Quoting Joost (Reply 20):
It has to do with the 747 upper deck. The Cirrus doesn't really suit a single aisle cabin: only 14 Cirrus can be installed on the upper deck (see DL) versus 20 for the Diamond. Also Lufthansa picked the diamond (748 operator) and DL and AA specifically for the 757 Intl. KLM picked the same seat for the 777 and the 747.

In the 787, as well as 777, 330 and 350, the Cirrus can be installed perfectly.

If that was the case, why didn't KL just select it for the 744 aircraft exclusively, and the Cirrus immediately for the rest. Was also intrigued the new Economy seat isn't the same as AF's as well. I believe AF went with all Zodiac Aerospace seating, and the new KL seat is Recaro?

Quoting A388 (Reply 24):
That is the old vision. Welcome to the new world my friend  

It is very hard to accept, the 747, especially the 744 has been the aircraft I have flown on the most. They are my favourite aircraft! Was sad to see the MD11 retire as well, I have had many flights with them.

Quoting A388 (Reply 24):
Somehow I still think the 789 will be the aircraft which will replace the 744 full pax routes.

Won't that lead to a decrease in capacity, unless they are looking for more frequencies instead?
 
AF022
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sun Jan 18, 2015 3:57 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 27):
How about being grateful you can fly business class? Not every hardworking man can afford that. It never amazes me here that people complain about C and F class travel..

Not every hardworking man can afford a trip even in economy class. But if I am traveling on business, and I am traveling in the front cabin, I am allowed to dislike the seating arrangement.
 
thaiflyer
Posts: 350
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sun Jan 18, 2015 4:22 am

Quoting kl911 (Reply 27):

I travel intercontinental (10 Hrs + flights) for my work on a almost a weekly basis in business and for business reasons.
If the product or service is not as expected or required i have every right to complain same as somebody who is traveling in economy for holiday or work.
 
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RJ321
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sun Jan 18, 2015 5:12 am

Quoting Fallap (Reply 16):

Is this really worse than Emirates' 3-4-3 B77W and A388? I thought that this is much more acceptable and comfortable.
 
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enzo011
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sun Jan 18, 2015 9:30 am

Quoting RJ321 (Reply 33):
Is this really worse than Emirates' 3-4-3 B77W and A388? I thought that this is much more acceptable and comfortable.

At best it will be the same as the 77W, but not anything close to the A388. We have seen 787s with less than 17" seats in QR.
 
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frigatebird
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RE: KLM Announces First 787-9 Route

Sun Jan 18, 2015 12:37 pm

Quoting kl911 (Reply 12):

Quoting na (Reply 8):
I understand that in general the 789s are replacing some of the oldest 744s, despite their extreme size difference.

Don't forget most of KLM's 747's are combi version. Not full pax.

Correct. The 789s will replace 74M's, which seat just 280. So the size difference is huge, but the seat difference isn't  
Quoting na (Reply 8):
Does this also signal the phase-out of some of the 77Es in a few years? The 789 can practically do all what the 77E can do, at much lower cost.

The 77E's aren't going anywhere anytime soon.

Quoting na (Reply 8):

Quoting DarkSnowyNight (Reply 1):
This will be the best looking 787 yet.

Beside Royal Jordanian and Etihad.

I like LAN's 787-9 best. Will have to see KL's for real first before I can make any judgment.

Quoting Joost (Reply 20):
Quoting kl838 (Reply 13):
and I believe those would be replaced with the A359

Not necessarily, although the 359s will replace 747s on some routes. Initially, the 77W was ordered as a replacement. But KLM managed to expand their network quite rapidly and now operates 8x77W and 7x744 in the 400+ seat segment. Three more 77Ws are on order.

AFAIK, none of the 77W's KL operate now were meant as 744 replacement. And the two 77W's they will receive this spring aren't either, KL only just completed the 744 WBC refurb. It could be a different story with the 3 77W's which were planned for delivery 2016/2017. These may well have been ordered to replace some 744 full pax, but they will be deferred, perhaps as a result of fuel prices dropping rapidly. Thet even may be swapped for other types (77F's to replace the 74F's?), because I think KL might just have enough large aircraft with 10 77W's in their fleet.

Quoting A388 (Reply 24):

Quoting kl838 (Reply 13):
The 747 has been an integral and iconic part of their fleet and branding.

That is the old vision. Welcome to the new world my friend  

I must say I agree with bot of you. For me, KLM and the 747 are one. Ever since I visited Schiphol (to travel or just for fun) there was one aircraft type always dominating: KL's 747s. AMS won't be the same without them... As an enthousiast, I would have loved to see KL ordering 748i's. From a business point of view however, this makes less than zero sense      

Quoting Joost (Reply 26):
The cargo market between SE Asia and Europe is very saturated, caused by the ME3 and the fast growing Chinese carriers. By replacing the 74M by a 789, KLM offers a similar amount of seats, but less cargo (at lower trip costs!), which might actually be a better fit in current market conditions.

Absolutely. The 789 will offer trip costs spectacularly below the 74M. And the 789 still has huge cargo capabilities. Just not on the main deck, but I believe the number of routes where main deck cargo is necessary will be very limited.

Quoting kl838 (Reply 30):
How many A350's is KL taking?

The plan was 7 A350s. However, I'm not sure these are still actual figures. Plan was KL were to take all 10 787s leased from Aercap, but as AF will get their 789s earlier than planned (2016 if I'm correct?), it must mean AF will get some of the leased 787s as well.

Personally, I am not sure what KL's plans are with the A350. 7 seem to be a low number to have in their fleet. Why not convert some of the 789s on order to 787-10s, and let AF take all A350s?

Only reason I can think of is that KL has more or less decided to replace their 77E fleet with the A350s they have on option, although I expect KL to keep the 77E's they own until 2025 at least. Perhaps the 7 A350s they have on order will replace 77E's on lease, but that is just guesswork.
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Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos