N1120A
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:32 am

I can see the plane headed to LAX/SFO-SYD, particularly if they do end up putting an F cabin on the aircraft. EWR-HKG makes some sense. Maybe they will finally bring back LAX-HKG on this, though that seems to be a 789 route.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 43):
John Rainey UA CFO only a few months ago said United did not see a three-class offering in its future.

Rainey is a moron who hates his most loyal customers. I take nothing he says seriously.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 43):
Why not add more C class that actually sells? Per UA its paid F class occupancy is only in the 40% range.

I can see a small F cabin like AA has done. If anything, it will help them avoid having to compensate a whole bunch of people who bought F tickets and suddenly get downgraded.

Quoting Miami (Reply 44):
Why not do something so it can sell?

Yeah, like put actually good food and wine on the flights.
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S75752
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:35 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 13):
The A350-1000 is inferior to the 777-300ER in terms of payload.

How did that happen?
 
BiggerJetsPlz
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:38 am

Just imagine how much more exciting this news would be if they were ordering ten 748s or A380s...

but alas, more "Airline X orders long crowded tubes with 2 engines!!!!" news. Back to sleep.

[Edited 2015-01-19 18:39:31]
 
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:42 am

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 52):
Just imagine how much more exciting this news would be if they were ordering ten 748s or A380s...

At this point, any 777-300ER orders just serves to bridge to the 777X, and as an aviation geek, one would think that you would appreciate that.

[Edited 2015-01-19 18:43:00]
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 2:42 am

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 52):

Just imagine how much more exciting this news would be if they were ordering ten 748s or A380s...

748 would be amazing.

Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 52):
but alas, more "Airline X orders long crowded tubes with 2 engines!!!!" news. Back to sleep.

    
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Boeing12345
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:07 am

Earnings come out on Thursday 22nd and don't forget still looking at used aircraft that can be picked up as well. That would be a great time for an official announcement.
 
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:12 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 51):
How did that happen?

Sorry, was still thinking of the 777X.

Quoting SXDFC (Reply 49):
IF UA does order the 77W, will it be a 777-324ER or 322ER?

Probably 777-322ER, since they're being ordered by UA.

It's confusing, seeing as 737s are still arriving as 737-X24s.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 47):
You seem pretty confident in that assertion.

I am. Isn't it obvious that DL doesn't really want anything larger than the 777-200LR and A350-900?
I could be wrong, true, but it really doesn't seem likely, at least, not any time soon.

Quoting TWA772LR (Reply 48):
When AA and UA retire their 77Ws, that's when DL will go for it.

You mean, like, acquire AA and UA's 77Ws?

[Edited 2015-01-19 19:12:47]
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LAXintl
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:12 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 50):
Rainey is a moron who hates his most loyal customers. I take nothing he says seriously.

Well with departure of Jeff Foland to Hertz a couple weeks ago, Rainey now has the Chief Strategy Officer title also.
So think what you will of him, but he clearly has say in the direction the ship sails.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 50):
If anything, it will help them avoid having to compensate a whole bunch of people who bought F tickets and suddenly get downgraded.

Its not like the plane is showing up tomorrow. There will be plenty of time to adjust booking levels on the routes slected to deploy the models on.
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:12 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 50):
Yeah, like put actually good food and wine on the flights.

   This I agree..

On a different hand. United should make a new first class unique not something old and original.
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fleabyte
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:14 am

Hmm,

Interesting to me that many of us comtemplated that after Continetal took Managerial control of United, that it would improve Boeing position and weaken Airbus position at the new UA for widebody aircraft.

Recall that UA's old management - that is not involved in the merged airline, selected the A350-900,

that was converted to the A350-1000 (sounds like buying time) as the A350-1000 is years away from availability

Now the new UA Management is ordering (10) 777-300ER

Hmmm.

sounds to me like we will eventually see a conversion of A350-1000 for A321NEO-extended range in 2017...

and an order for 777-8 and 777-9

and to all you that are convinced the Continental team really wants A350-1000,,,we shall see. The actions of UA since the merger indicate to me they do not want the A350.
 
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:15 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 57):
Well with departure of Jeff Foland to Hertz a couple weeks ago, Rainey now has the Chief Strategy Officer title also.
So think what you will of him, but he clearly has say in the direction the ship sails.

Rainey is generally hated among United's Super Elite community.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 56):
Probably 777-322ER, since they're being ordered by UA.

Probably.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 56):
It's confusing, seeing as 737s are still arriving as 737-X24s.

That is likely because they are an extension from the previous CO order.

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 57):
Its not like the plane is showing up tomorrow. There will be plenty of time to adjust booking levels on the routes slected to deploy the models on.

Perhaps, though you give them a bit much credit.
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777Jet
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:20 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 2):
Quoting kaitak (Reply 1):
What does this replace, I wonder? 747-400s? (I thought the A350-1000 was to replace the 744s, though?)

Ten 777-300ER frames to retire the 10 oldest 747-400s in the near term, leaving 15 A350-1000s to handle the rest and 20 A350-1000s to up-gauge 777-200ER routes.

Sounds like a good plan!

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 4):
I have a hunch this could be a 777-300ER/777X split order, if not, eventually lead to a 777X order.

I have a similar hunch, or hope  
Quoting bunumuring (Reply 21):
Sydney, here comes the UA 777-300ER to more effectively take on Qantas, Virgin Australia, Delta and to a much lesser extent, Hawaiian and Air New Zealand!
Cheers,
Bunumuring.

I'd love to see UA operate the 777-300ER on routes to SYD over the dated and less capable 777-200ER they currently use to SYD. However, that would depend on how much capacity UA wanted on the route - depending on the config of any 77Ws. If it was capacity UA want to SYD they could have left the older and less-reliable 744s on the SYD run. So, if UA does take some 77Ws, it will be interesting to see if they are happy leaving the 772ERs on the SYD run or increasing capacity with the 77W... Having said that, the 77Ws would probably be for other routes all together - such as the routes currently served by the 744s that they are to replace... Nonetheless, I'd love to see the larger model 777s flying to SYD one day for UA  
Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 52):
Just imagine how much more exciting this news would be if they were ordering ten 748s or A380s...

I was going to say that if UA orderes some of the larger 777 models then I believe UA may never order 748s... This order could kill the chance of seeing the 748 at UA - if it indeed ever was a chance...

[Edited 2015-01-19 19:23:19]
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N1120A
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:23 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 61):
I'd love to see UA operate the 777-300ER on routes to SYD over the dated and less capable 777-200ER they currently use to SYD. However, that would depend on how much capacity UA wanted on the route - depending on the config of any 77Ws. If it was capacity UA want to SYD they could have left the older and less-reliable 744s on the SYD run.

It would be interesting to see if they are interested from a cargo perspective. Lots of that on the route and the 77W is insanely good at carrying freight. Further, its a route with virtually limitless capacity - especially LAX-SYD.
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:24 am

Quoting global2 (Reply 46):
Nice image--hope they keep the wave cheatline. At first glance I thought they had adopted a metallic silver scheme on the upper half; no wouldn't THAT have bee something!

I often wonder if the 737 MAX's will arrive in a 787 styled livery  

If they could make the white and blue metallic, that'd make my day.
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LAX772LR
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:27 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 50):
I take nothing he says seriously.

Plenty of others at UA have said it as well, including Smisek.


Quoting BiggerJetsPlz (Reply 52):
Just imagine how much more exciting this news would be if they were ordering ten 748s or A380s.

I'd be more along the lines of, "What the hell are you thinking UA?!" than excited.

What good what it do them to order something that the general market has clearly rejected (748), or something that an airline with a half-dozen major hubs has no chance of profitably filling (A380)..... especially when "capacity discipline" has been its managerial mantra for the last 3yrs+ running?

That's the whole reason they're replacing the 744s with smaller aircraft, not larger.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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777Jet
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:33 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 62):
It would be interesting to see if they are interested from a cargo perspective. Lots of that on the route and the 77W is insanely good at carrying freight. Further, its a route with virtually limitless capacity - especially LAX-SYD.

I was thinking the same thing.

The 77W is a killer in terms of cargo capacity - but does it face any penalties on that route Westbound?

Depending on how it is configured, it may not even hold that many more pax than the 777-200ERs, but, if it is a 747-400 replacement then I'd expect it to be configured appropriatley. So, that leaves the extra cargo space - more space than the 744 had. The 77W might be ideal for UA to operate to SYD. Also, they could try it on one of the routes before using it on from both LAX & SFO. The only problem with only one of the SYD flights using the 77W, and the other staying with the 772 initially, is that they couldn't rotate aircraft through both cities like they often currently do without difficulty (eg: SFO-SYD-LAX-SYD-SFO).
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:38 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 64):
Plenty of others at UA have said it as well, including Smisek.

He also said Channel 9 would get expanded to the whole fleet.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 65):
he 77W is a killer in terms of cargo capacity - but does it face any penalties on that route Westbound?

Why would it? It has longer range than the 744ER, which doesn't take penalties. The 77W will do just fine.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 65):
Depending on how it is configured, it may not even hold that many more pax than the 777-200ERs

There isn't a snowball's chance in hell that they configure with less than the 772ERs. The 77W, even if they decide to put F on them, will carry over 300 passengers.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 65):
The only problem with only one of the SYD flights using the 77W, and the other staying with the 772 initially, is that they couldn't rotate aircraft through both cities like they often currently do without difficulty (eg: SFO-SYD-LAX-SYD-SFO).

They are without competition on SFO and LAX has virtually limitless demand. There is no reason not to use it on both, if they use it at all.
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:38 am

I think this would be good for UA, but really only 10? A bit too small of a quantity there -- almost a subfleet size in a way. I feel like AA has around 20 which I think would be a better option for UA at this point.
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:42 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 66):
They are without competition on SFO

There is chatter about QF re-starting SFO so that will be interesting...
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:47 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 68):
There is chatter about QF re-starting SFO so that will be interesting...

Chatter, but will it happen? They have never really made it work.

Quoting tommy767 (Reply 67):

I think this would be good for UA, but really only 10? A bit too small of a quantity there -- almost a subfleet size in a way. I feel like AA has around 20 which I think would be a better option for UA at this point.

Remember that UA already operates a large fleet of 777s, including a good sized fleet of GE90 birds. There are some differences, but the commonality is greater than the small fleet of 747s. Further, who knows if they will order some more down the road.
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Sooner787
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 3:55 am

Quoting MSPNWA (Reply 28):
UA's oldest 9 744s are all over 23-25 years old. They need to replaced soon whether they are inefficient or not. I see this is an opportunity to get a good deal to modernize a part of the UA fleet and "spread out" the fleet replacement.

We have clients in Silicon Valley who are now opting to connect thru LAX so they
can fly UA's 787's to Asia.

As much as I love the Queen, UA's are flat worn out and need replacing soon
 
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:00 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 68):

Quoting N1120A (Reply 66):
They are without competition on SFO

There is chatter about QF re-starting SFO so that will be interesting...

Yes, which is precisely why I joked in the QF:SFO thread about this potential United order being in response to a resurgent QF taking on one of United's monopoly routes... Again, I was being lighthearted!
However, shiny new UA 777-300ERs up against QF's reactivated twenty odd year old 747-400s potentially SYD-SFO? That's a reversal of the usual order of nature on the transpacific, where SYD-LAX is the newish QF A380 up against UA's much older 777-200ERs!
Time will tell. Fingers crossed.
Although like many others here, I would dearly love to see the 747-8 appear in Sydney in UA colours!
Cheers,
Bunumuring.
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:01 am

Quoting fleabyte (Reply 59):
Hmmm.

sounds to me like we will eventually see a conversion of A350-1000 for A321NEO-extended range in 2017...

and an order for 777-8 and 777-9

A conversion of the current A350-1000s to A321neos, IMO, is really far fetched. I think it's unlikely.

However, they do have 40 A350 options that could be converted to A321neos.

The fact that they are ordering 10 777-300ERs makes it seem like they could be ordering the 777X..

Quoting fleabyte (Reply 59):
The actions of UA since the merger indicate to me they do not want the A350.

I see no reason why they wouldn't. It's a perfect bridge between the 787 and 777X, if you ask me.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 61):
This order could kill the chance of seeing the 748 at UA

The chances of the 748i at UA were killed sometime in 2013, probab
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:02 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 69):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 68):
There is chatter about QF re-starting SFO so that will be interesting...

Chatter, but will it happen? They have never really made it work.

Only QF can answer that question.

IMHO QF will return to SFO one day, and I believe it will be with a 789 - so it won't be for some time as the 789 order has yet to be firmed   

But, if QF does decide to return to SFO sooner and with a 744 as per the following thread it will be interesting to see! Rumor: Qantas Back To SFO. Will Re-activate 2 B744 (by Qantas744er Jan 17 2015 in Civil Aviation)

[Edited 2015-01-19 20:11:50]
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:03 am

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 70):
We have clients in Silicon Valley who are now opting to connect thru LAX so they
can fly UA's 787's to Asia.

I don't see why. The premium product, and service, are better on the sUA planes.

Quoting Sooner787 (Reply 70):
As much as I love the Queen, UA's are flat worn out and need replacing soon

Uh, you do realize they were refreshed within the last decade, right?
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:12 am

Quoting bunumuring (Reply 71):
Although like many others here, I would dearly love to see the 747-8 appear in Sydney in UA colours!

I would like to see the 748 appear anywhere in UA colours  
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:15 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 74):
Uh, you do realize they were refreshed within the last decade, right?

Plus the 747's are all getting in seat power, and they already have streaming via wifi. With the extra room and the comfy seats, as long as you have a tablet or phone with you, they're a great product now.
 
Beatyair
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:50 am

Make sense...
- You can retire some un-economical 747's.
- You can buy and airplane that your pilots are already trained on.
- You can buy a B777-300er at a pretty good discount right now.
- You can carry the same amount of people for a lot less money.

Talk yo your star alliance partner, Air Canada, who just bought two more at that nice discount.
 
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 4:56 am

Quoting Stitch (Reply 15):
I fully believe this order is down to availability tied to a desire to accelerate the 747-400 retirement.

And price.

Quoting jfk777 (Reply 17):
The timing on this seems very weird.

Low price. 777-300ERs used to be very, very expensive. Now as Boeing tries to bridge the production gap they are available at significantly cheaper prices.

Quoting 29erUSA187 (Reply 14):
Could they mean they want to drop the A350 order?

Not a chance. This is an opportunistic order because of a good combination of availablility and price. If they could have the frames at the same time for the same money, they would have ordered more A350s instead.

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 22):
I'm willing to bet that the 777X is involved in this deal.

I'm willing to bet it isn't. I think this is strictly a matter of UA jumping on an opportunity its analysts couldn't pass up.

The door is by no means closed for the 777X at UA, but it's awfully big for what they need, and they will have to see substantial passenger growth on core routes in the next few years for it to make sense.
 
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:02 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 78):
Low price. 777-300ERs used to be very, very expensive. Now as Boeing tries to bridge the production gap they are available at significantly cheaper prices.

Yep, Boeing is resetting the price on the 777-300ER to attract customers to fill the gap. I would imagine that the margins with the 777-300ER at reset price has still got to be very flexible for Boeing to work with.
 
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:23 am

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 78):
The door is by no means closed for the 777X at UA, but it's awfully big for what they need, and they will have to see substantial passenger growth on core routes in the next few years for it to make sense.

I sort of agree with you, but the fact that now two (if this order comes to pass, which seems likely given the language in the article) U.S. carriers will operate the 777-300ER, the worlds largest twin engined airliner currently, it kind of tells me that they are seeing things we may not.

The 777-9 could be too big for UA (AA on the other hand...), but then again, they may order it.

I'm guessing the 777X is involved, because:

a.) UA has publicly expressed interest for the plane
b.) This is coming at a time when Boeing is heavily discounting the 777-300ER, and given the size of the order, being 10, it could imply a stop-gap deal. 10 777-300ERs to help with the line, and then discounted 777Xs later (Would they be for the 777-9? For the -8? Both?)
c.) There are some routes that could benefit from the aircraft in question

Quoting seabosdca (Reply 78):
777-300ERs used to be very, very expensive. Now as Boeing tries to bridge the production gap they are available at significantly cheaper prices.

Very quick side question. I'm assuming the 777-300ER broke even already. When did it, if it did?

[Edited 2015-01-19 21:32:34]
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Flighty
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:25 am

Quoting Boeing778X (Reply 22):
I'm willing to bet that the 777X is involved in this deal. 10 isn't a big fleet, you're right.

In a ULR fleet, accounting for a spare or two, 10 would be severely lower than optimal.
 
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 5:36 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 61):
Nonetheless, I'd love to see the larger model 777s flying to SYD one day for UA

If UA were to put a 10 Abreast 77W on that route, I'd bet on Qantas or Virgin Australia coming in and smacking their load factors down by sheer product, unless UA puts up some insane bargain prices on it, like $1000 round trip Y at most.

Even less-regular travellers who are certainly not aviation enthusiasts that I know are well aware of the 10 abreasts and steer clear of them at every possible turn.
 
kaitak
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RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:30 am

Quoting S75752 (Reply 82):
If UA were to put a 10 Abreast 77W on that route, I'd bet on Qantas or Virgin Australia coming in and smacking their load factors down by sheer product, unless UA puts up some insane bargain prices on it, like $1000 round trip Y at most. Even less-regular travellers who are certainly not aviation enthusiasts that I know are well aware of the 10 abreasts and steer clear of them at every possible turn.

I think that there is a potential danger for UA (and indeed other carriers which will operate the 777 and A350, or indeed A350 and 787, side by side). The A350 will definitely be nine abreast; I couldn't possibly see UA going to 10 abreast on those) ... so what happens when people suddenly begin to notice that the A350 is a far more comfortable aircraft than either the 787 or 777, and start avoiding them in favour of the A350. It would not surprise me if this started happening a lot and the reputation gets around and travel websites start guiding people on which routes/airlines to avoid, because they are 10 abreast on 777s/9 abreast on 787s. I think this should
be a concern for Boeing because it's their aircraft, not Airbus's which are being affected by this. It's all very well for airlines to express preference (and buy) their aircraft, but if word gets around that savvy passengers are actively avoiding their aircraft, or seeking out airlines that give more generous seating (BA, CX, etc), then it has to be a concern.

It'll be interesting to see what DL does if/when it orders the 77W/779X (if it does at all, having already ordered the A350).

Boeing may well rue the day airlines first started to discover that they could have 10Y in Economy Class!
 
JAAlbert
Posts: 1981
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:43 pm

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:54 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 83):
I think that there is a potential danger for UA (and indeed other carriers which will operate the 777 and A350, or indeed A350 and 787, side by side). The A350 will definitely be nine abreast;

My thoughts exactly - the 350s look like they will be much more comfortable than the 787s and 777x's at least where economy is concerned.
 
tommy767
Posts: 4658
Joined: Sat Aug 09, 2003 12:18 pm

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 6:55 am

Quoting N1120A (Reply 69):
Remember that UA already operates a large fleet of 777s, including a good sized fleet of GE90 birds. There are some differences, but the commonality is greater than the small fleet of 747s. Further, who knows if they will order some more down the road.


In all likelyhood, UA probably watched AA operated 773s for the last several years and felt that they too could use the capacity increase on certain routes. What AA did was bold as no other US carrier ever had the intention of operating a 773. And for years on this forum many critcized the 773ER as too expensive and too much capacity for US carriers. AA proved that theory wrong all the way to the bank.

Unfortunately, I don't think UA will order more. As menitoned, this order is to offset a few 744s. I get the commonality with the other 777 fleets, absolutely an advantage over the aging and MX prone 747s. I still think it's too few of a number for what UA could do. But I'm sure they got a good deal on them otherwise they wouldn't have placed the order. It's pretty random of them, IMHO.



BTW, the GE90 777 fleet is only subject to 21 frames. Not what I call a "good size."

Quoting Flighty (Reply 81):

^ Exactly.

[Edited 2015-01-19 23:00:05]
"KEEP CLIMBING" -- DELTA
 
joperrin89
Posts: 28
Joined: Fri Feb 27, 2009 4:26 am

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:01 am

Awesome! Good to see UA sticking with the 777
 
Armodeen
Posts: 1233
Joined: Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:17 am

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:08 am

Quoting fleabyte (Reply 59):

If the A350 was available this year I bet this would be a top up order for them instead. As it is the 77W is available, fits with the current 772 fleet and enables UA to retire the troublesome 744s early. It's a convenient stopgap order, nothing more. The A350/77X is the future, not 77Ws.

BA did much the same thing with 77Ws (albeit for different reasons).

Congrats to Boeing and UA!  
 
iahcsr
Posts: 4777
Joined: Fri Jun 04, 1999 2:59 pm

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:13 am

22 GE-90s.... But who's counting   
Working Hard, Flying Right Friendly....
 
iahmark
Posts: 70
Joined: Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:16 am

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:23 am

Quoting kaitak (Reply 83):
I think that there is a potential danger for UA (and indeed other carriers which will operate the 777 and A350, or indeed A350 and 787, side by side).

Lol, you are looking too hard into this…the 787 could be had with 18 inch seats if airlines wanted ( I believe with a narrower 1.5 armrest instead of the 2 inch the width of the seat would be 17.8 inches, make the aisles a tad narrower and they can have 18 inch seats at 9 abreast).

The 777W is actually on their way out and the future 777-8/9 would have true 10 abreast seats at 18 inches width so this temporary 777W order –if it materializes- wouldn’t be much of an issue.

Remember it could be 2 class with the addition of Y+ for the ones that find 10 abreast too narrow; also you have to look at the seat pitch…put it a 32+ inch pitch with 10 abreast at 17.3 widths and it should be OK…The only ones to complain about 10 abreast on a 77W are on carriers that have 17 inch widths and 31-32 inch pitch.

Some examples of 10 abreast on a 77W (all measurements in inches):
AA: 31 pitch, 17 width
AF: 32 pitch, 17 width
NZ: 32-33 pitch, 17.1 width
EK: 33-34 pitch, 17 width
EY: 31.5-33 pitch, 17.5 width
KL: 31 pitch, 17.5 width
 
XT6Wagon
Posts: 2726
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 4:06 pm

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:43 am

Quoting iahmark (Reply 89):
The only ones to complain about 10 abreast on a 77W are on carriers that have 17 inch widths and 31-32 inch pitch.

Taller people will find the window seat of any 10Y 777 currently in service to be less than desirable. EK for example has special seats that have the upper corner of the window seat removed so that it can fit tighter against the sidewall. Unfortunately for people like me, My shoulders do not come with the same feature.

The shoulder room for 6'+ people is what I'm most interested in regards to the 777x program. Even if its just getting standard narrowbody 17.2" seats to fit properly, it would be a huge advance over today.
 
ericm2031
Posts: 1198
Joined: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:46 am

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 7:51 am

It may only be for 10, but as AA did, there is potential to increase the order. I have a feeling we'll see 10 now, and then with a potential 777x order down the road we'll see additional frames added on. Next generation orders seems to always include some current generation orders as well.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17853
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:05 am

I'd be surprised if UA ordered the 77W on its own, unless they got a screaming discount. With loads of 787 and 350s arriving I'd think it's a bridge/loss leader to a 77X order.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 50):
Rainey is a moron who hates his most loyal customers. I take nothing he says seriously.

He just said what everyone was thinking, and then DL acted on it aggressively, by taking out J seats, tying frequent flyer to spend, and then raising that spending requirement.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 82):
I'd bet on Qantas or Virgin Australia coming in and smacking their load factors down by sheer product, unless UA puts up some insane bargain prices on it, like $1000 round trip Y at most.

Where has a "premium" product hoovered up traffic away from a cheap product, ever?
E pur si muove -Galileo
 
UA444
Posts: 2792
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:23 am

UA ordering current gen aircraft late in the game isn't exactly new. There's nothing wrong with buying when the manufacturer is willing to deal. I wish they'd get 747-8s instead, though.

UA took DC-10s and 727s up until 1981, and this was after TK and AA had their bad DC-10 crashes. They also ordered 6 742s in the late 1980s, though only took two (N151UA and N152UA, both still with Kalitta today).

That said, this isn't going to lead to a 777X order. These are primarily going to replace some of the 744s sooner since it's very apparent they can't wait until the A350s arrive. The 350s will replace the rest.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 74):
I don't see why. The premium product, and service, are better on the sUA planes.

Agreed 10000%.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 50):
Rainey is a moron who hates his most loyal customers. I take nothing he says seriously.

A certified idiot. He and the rest of his CO-horts need to leave yesterday.

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 61):
I'd love to see UA operate the 777-300ER on routes to SYD over the dated and less capable 777-200ER they currently use to SYD

Have you even flown on one? Those planes are not dated. They've been refurbished head to tail, have full AVOD at every seat and are getting wifi. The 777-222/ER is easily one of the nicest and most comfortable planes flying.

[Edited 2015-01-20 00:25:36]
 
MKIAZ
Posts: 253
Joined: Thu May 01, 2014 5:24 am

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:38 am

The problem as I see it, is that any route they use these on is going to require 2 frames. So their 10 are going to get used up relatively fast.

At least AA will have 20, and they route most of them through LHR so they can increase utilization.

From a range perspective, it would make the most sense to use them on the longest routes... so EWR-HKG, ORD-HKG, SFO-HKG, SFO-SYD, LAX-SYD. Maybe even start LAX-HKG
 
UA444
Posts: 2792
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2014 7:03 am

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 8:40 am

Australia has one of the highest percentages of paid F in the system. If these are being used there, they should have F in them. If this management team actually had the will to innovate and actually compete, they could have an outstanding F product across the board, but instead make up excuse after excuse and do everything mediocre.
 
S75752
Posts: 1469
Joined: Sat Apr 05, 2014 6:38 pm

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:03 am

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 92):

Where has a "premium" product hoovered up traffic away from a cheap product, ever?

In a perfect world. Sadly.
My point is that 10 abreast would be a turn-off to many consumers (at least, the ones who are aware) on such a long flight, and alongside all of UA's other Y service downfalls, UA would probably need to drop their prices pretty low when travellers start to wise up to what UA lacks and QF/VA offers.

That makes me wish that search engines like Kayak and Orbitz would also have the amenities, width, pitch, meals, and the like show up as filter options or head-to-head comparison in search results.

Quoting MKIAZ (Reply 94):
Maybe even start LAX-HKG

Given that they dropped LAX-HKG, that'd probably be a 788 or 789 route.


I start to wonder why Boeing doesn't just make a 777 that's equally as wide as a 747, so it can fit 10 abreast comfortably rather than cramping it in.
 
815Oceanic
Posts: 181
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 12:53 am

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 9:19 am

Here are my unknowledgeable predictions for where to place them:

Replace 747 flying in ORD so PEK, PVG, and NRT. Then replace SYD-LAX/SFO and that's ten frames used. When maintenance is necessary, bring in a 772 on SFO-SYD and you're good to go!
 
MIflyer12
Posts: 6606
Joined: Mon Feb 18, 2013 11:58 pm

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:21 am

Quoting Flighty (Reply 81):
In a ULR fleet, accounting for a spare or two, 10 would be severely lower than optimal.

That depends on what the firm is optimizing. It's not hard to find examples where firms disagree with your contention:

DL: 13 744s
DL: 10 77Ls
Emirates 10 77Ls
AC: 6 77Ls
Qatar: 9 77Ls

Those are fairly small fractions of decent (AC=50) to massive (Emirates=231) widebody fleets.
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 17853
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: United To Order 777-300ER?

Tue Jan 20, 2015 10:36 am

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 98):
That depends on what the firm is optimizing. It's not hard to find examples where firms disagree with your contention:

DL: 13 744s
DL: 10 77Ls
Emirates 10 77Ls
AC: 6 77Ls
Qatar: 9 77Ls

Very few of these firms actually use the 77L on much of anything that is "ULH". DL in particular really only needs, and uses, it for ATLJNB. EK's are used extensively to Africa and India.
E pur si muove -Galileo

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