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bjorn14
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Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:40 am

According to a report by ESPN the shortage of charter aircraft could affect teams arriving and leaving in a timely manner.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-bask...age-lead-teams-sticking-tournament

With up to 100 teams (including women's) having to move the first weekend this could be a problem.

My question isn't there enough charter aircraft at the scheduled carriers to pick up the slack? DL has like 50 VIP 319s.
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bennett123
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 11:50 am

Perhaps they need to lease/charter non VIP aircraft as well.
 
MIflyer12
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:03 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
My question isn't there enough charter aircraft at the scheduled carriers to pick up the slack? DL has like 50 VIP 319s.

I see two references showing DL with eight 319Cs, not 'like 50.'

Scarce resources get rationed by price. Teams will pay more for premium charters, accept non-remium charters, or bus it.
 
MaverickM11
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:10 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 2):
Teams will pay more for premium charters, accept non-remium charters, or bus it.

   They'll pay more for any aircraft that would otherwise fly scheduled service too. Now that airlines are consistently making a 10-15% margin year round, airlines probably are turning down anything under 30-45% margin.
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lightsaber
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:23 pm

This is nothing money won't fix. Both DL and AA could spare a few MD-80. That many charters is amazing. Something that would have to be planned a head of time. This will bid up the price substantially.

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 2):
Scarce resources get rationed by price. Teams will pay more for premium charters, accept non-remium charters, or bus it.

   And there is a price-demand curve which allows for more aircraft at the right prices (but not perhaps the right times). e.g., during the holidays, UA added another hub wave (late at night) to DEN by utilizing aircraft more. There is a surge capacity out there. But not necessarily at the hours these charters demand.

The years of surplus capacity are over, which is a good thing.

Lightsaber
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bjorn14
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 12:26 pm

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 1):
Perhaps they need to lease/charter non VIP aircraft as well.

They do. I know that Allegiant does a lot of NCAA charter work. Miami Air, Xtra Airways, etc.

Many NCAA teams during the regular season charter 50-seat RJs.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
bobnwa
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:10 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
My question isn't there enough charter aircraft at the scheduled carriers to pick up the slack? DL has like 50 VIP 319s.

How many aircraft is "like 50"? Is that teenager talk ?

[Edited 2015-01-21 05:14:23]
 
nkops
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:15 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
DL has like 50 VIP 319s.

I f thats true, seems like a waste of A319's... I could see them having about 10 at the most, but 50 would be a waste
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bjorn14
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 1:21 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 2):
I see two references showing DL with eight 319Cs, not 'like 50.'
Quoting bobnwa (Reply 6):
How many aircraft is "like 50"? Is that teenager talk ?
Quoting nkops (Reply 7):
I f thats true, seems like a waste of A319's... I could see them having about 10 at the most, but 50 would be a waste

My bad. This is what I get for listening to another A.nutter without checking it myself.   
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
burnsie28
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting bjorn14 (Thread starter):
My question isn't there enough charter aircraft at the scheduled carriers to pick up the slack? DL has like 50 VIP 319s.

8

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 2):
Teams will pay more for premium charters, accept non-remium charters, or bus it.

If the NCAA basketball tournament is like the NCAA Hockey tournament, the NCAA handles the charters, not the teams this time.
 
jetmatt777
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 5:21 pm

Keep in mind, a lot of college basketball charters are on 50 seat jets. ExpressJet does quite a bit for the UA charter department. You don't need a ton of seats for a team with 12 players, a few coaches, room for a few local press members, and a few girlfriends/family.

It's no problem at all to absorb these charters. 50 seat jets are in no high demand -- crews on the other hand....
 
Cubsrule
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:12 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 10):
Keep in mind, a lot of college basketball charters are on 50 seat jets. ExpressJet does quite a bit for the UA charter department. You don't need a ton of seats for a team with 12 players, a few coaches, room for a few local press members, and a few girlfriends/family.

True, though that's less true come tournament time. Elite has done a few shorter charters in CRJs for the last couple of years, but beyond that it's been almost all mainline equipment recently. Expressjet was somewhat more involved when they had the branded operation, but I can't think of another regional that has been very active for as long as I've been following tournament charters (10 years or so).
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jetmatt777
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:25 pm

Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 11):
True, though that's less true come tournament time. Elite has done a few shorter charters in CRJs for the last couple of years, but beyond that it's been almost all mainline equipment recently. Expressjet was somewhat more involved when they had the branded operation, but I can't think of another regional that has been very active for as long as I've been following tournament charters (10 years or so).

We've been getting plenty of Expressjet operated charters. Keep in mind, these are handled by the UA charter department. They are contracting with Expressjet to provide the flight. NCAA(or the college) pays UA, and UA pays Expressjet. SkyWest did a few last year. Just depends who has an airplane laying around when they need it. (It is coordinated months and weeks in advance though)
 
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sunking737
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:29 pm

Believe me if a school needs to get band members, Alumni, and etc from city A to city B, it will happen. When I worked at SY they would turn a plane that is a 9 pm RON, and send it back out. The schools will send teams 2 or 3 days ahead and travel late in the day or early in the am. The only limit to an A/C is crew.
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Rbgso
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:34 pm

I'm 6'1" and anything over 60 mins in a CRJ200 is absolute torture. I can't imagine a bunch of 6'6" to 7 footers shoehorned into this plane.
 
bond007
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 6:36 pm

Quoting MIflyer12 (Reply 2):
or bus it.

Yep!

Many games are 5 days apart. For those that are, and/or closeby ...get on a bus.

This hardly is a reason for impacting the tournament.

"Teams that play within 350 miles of a tournament site are to bus"

" The team had only a short time to return to the hotel, check out, grab dinner boxes and head to the airport. The Aggies departed at 2:15 a.m., landing in El Paso, Texas, at 7 a.m. To add insult to injury, there was just one bus waiting when they arrived in El Paso for the two-plus hour ride to the Las Cruces campus. Some members of the travel party had to wait on the bus to return."

Perhaps if we treated them like college kids, who are fortunate to play a sport they probably dreamed of doing (instead of actually having to study for their degree), they wouldn't expect to get treated as royalty.

Jimbo

[Edited 2015-01-21 11:13:15]
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Cubsrule
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 7:06 pm

Quoting jetmatt777 (Reply 12):
We've been getting plenty of Expressjet operated charters.

But again, the tournament has been different than the regular season because NCAA books all charters centrally.
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ORDJOE
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:17 pm

It is not like this is the first year of the NCAA tournament, what is different this year versus other years. Is there really that many more planes in pax service this year vs last?


There is always the bus and Amtrak (the Philadelphia eagles take a private Amtrak car to the redskins games). Are there any birds sitting in VCV or that can be called up for a few more missions
 
32andBelow
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:18 pm

There is 0 reason that the 48 seed in the NCAA tournament can't fly commercial. How has no one in here mentioned regular commercial flights.

[Edited 2015-01-21 13:22:15]
 
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AVLAirlineFreq
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:33 pm

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 18):
There is 0 reason that the 48 seed in the NCAA tournament can't fly commercial. How has no one in here mentioned regular commercial flights.

Because teams find out where they are playing on a Sunday night and could be on the road as soon as Monday. That's potentially a lot of empty seats to come up with on short notice.
 
slider
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Wed Jan 21, 2015 9:38 pm

Quoting Rbgso (Reply 14):
I'm 6'1" and anything over 60 mins in a CRJ200 is absolute torture. I can't imagine a bunch of 6'6" to 7 footers shoehorned into this plane.

It's not about player size or comfort necessarily, it's about economics.
 
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kgaiflyer
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:25 am

Quoting bond007 (Reply 15):
. . . landing in El Paso, Texas, at 7 a.m. To add insult to injury, there was just one bus waiting when they arrived in El Paso for the two-plus hour ride to the Las Cruces campus.

El Paso and Las Cruces are 47 miles (about 50 minutes) apart.
New Mexico has 75 mph interstate speed limits. That bus must have been traveling 25 mph.
 
stlgph
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Thu Jan 22, 2015 12:50 am

Quoting ORDJOE (Reply 17):
It is not like this is the first year of the NCAA tournament, what is different this year versus other years. Is there really that many more planes in pax service this year vs last?

...read the article posted.
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smokeybandit
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Thu Jan 22, 2015 1:23 am

One of the issues here is that the NCAA expects teams to leave ASAP after they lose.
 
packcheer
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Thu Jan 22, 2015 3:12 am

I feel like I should chime in here....

I work in college athletics, and have been involved in NCAA tournament for the last 10 years.

When you are expecting to get seeded in the tournament you have to provide the NCAA a list of your travel requests:
Things like nearest airport, facilities, travel party size, etc are all required.

Different schools choose to take different party sizes, and the NCAA does a great job.
The smallest travel party I have been on squeezed onto a Miami Air 738.
This past season my schools travel party for first, second, and third round, filled a DL 752.


The amount of people required to run the tournament is crazy, and the amount of people and equipment we take with us is even higher. With so many teams arriving at each site in a short period, it takes a huge number of planes.

Flying commercial is out of the question, there just is no way it would work. With men and women traveling (68 men's teams travel, 48 women's team travel), it's a lot of required charter capacity fast.
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seb146
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Thu Jan 22, 2015 6:32 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 4):
This is nothing money won't fix

I recall a chartered Convair 240 or 440 with football players where the captain decided "let's fly up the canyon because it is cool" and couldn't turn. I know that would not happen now, but that is where my mind went.

Quoting sunking737 (Reply 13):
Believe me if a school needs to get band members, Alumni, and etc from city A to city B, it will happen.

And they will fly coach and the band will have to "find the money somehow." Alumni and patrons will get first class seats as much as they can.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 15):
Teams that play within 350 miles of a tournament site are to bus"

They should anyway! Here is an example I can not imagine: University of Washington playing in Spokane or Portland chartering a jet or University of Oregon playing in Spokane or Seattle chartering a jet. That makes no sense to me.
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bjorn14
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RE: Plane Shortage Could Effect Ncaa Tournament

Thu Jan 22, 2015 8:51 am

Quoting seb146 (Reply 25):

SEA-PUW is at least a 6-hour drive. In the dead of winter you don't want the team bus stuck in a storm like that women's team was for 24 hours in upstate New York recently. The athletes need to get b ack to campus ASAP as not miss class or so the idea goes.
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