AA Applies For LAX-GDL, MIA-MTY

MAH4546 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:30 pm

American Airlines applied today with DOT to begin service between Los Angeles and Guadalajara and between Miami and Monterrey.

Proposed schedules effective June 4, 2015:

AA 903 LAX 0030-0540 GDL Daily A319
AA 985 GDL 1955-2120 LAX Daily A319

AA 231 MIA 1655-1915 MTY Daily A319
AA 319 MTY 0715-1110 MIA Daily A319

Both of these are old AA routes, LAX-GDL last operated in the early 2000s and MIA-MTY in the late 1990s. The LAX-GDL route simply makes use of an A319 that would otherwise RON in Guadalajara between Dallas turns. IMO, this is an example of how low fuel is making these turns much more viable again.

Applications available on www.airlineinfo.com (subscription required).

AA767400 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:40 pm

Great utilization of the 319! About time AA jumps back on LAX-GDL.

Hopefully, this will open up more LAX-Latin America.

N1120A · Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:41 pm

Makes a lot of sense. With the GDL flight use Bradley or AA's FIS, assuming that is still open?

MAH4546 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:46 pm

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 1):
Hopefully, this will open up more LAX-Latin America.

As long as fuel stays cheap, I expect we will might see AA take planes RONing in Central America between MIA/DFW flights and send them to LA on a similar schedule to the GDL turn. I wouldn't be shocked to see a combination of LAX-SJO/MGA/SAL/GUA.

N1120A · Fri Jan 23, 2015 6:49 pm

Seems like a pretty long turn for the plane, however.

as739x · Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:00 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 4):
Seems like a pretty long turn for the plane, however.

I think what he means is the DFW aircraft would otherwise RON in GDL. This uses the aircraft to LAX. And the inbound LAX redeye would in turn depart in the morning to DFW, on what was the DFW RON. Essentially eliminating the RON in GDL and keeps the plane flying and making money.

Miami · Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:08 pm

Great news for MIA and LAX. Keep the expansion going, AA!

N1120A · Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:18 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 5):
I think what he means is the DFW aircraft would otherwise RON in GDL. This uses the aircraft to LAX. And the inbound LAX redeye would in turn depart in the morning to DFW, on what was the DFW RON. Essentially eliminating the RON in GDL and keeps the plane flying and making money.

Maybe, but where does the A319 that operates the Tecolote to GDL come from?

LAXdude1023 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:19 pm

Congrats to MIA and LAX!

I keep hoping for a DFW-MGA/TGU to complete DFW's Central America portfolio to go along with this!

MAH4546 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:22 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):
Maybe, but where does the A319 that operates the Tecolote to GDL come from?

It probably is the same plane that came in from GDL. In context it is not a long turn given that it probably will have to be towed from TBIT. And any quicker turn would bring the plane into GDL way too early, where it would just have to sit and wait to get to Dallas.

N1120A · Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:26 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
And any quicker turn would bring the plane into GDL way too early, where it would just have to sit and wait to get to Dallas.

Of course, though they could use a different aircraft to operate the flight to GDL and turn this plane somewhere else in the network.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 9):
In context it is not a long turn given that it probably will have to be towed from TBIT.

So, has the T4 FIS closed completely?

Also, once they move into the 4 preferential gates, they really would only need an hour turn.

MAH4546 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:29 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
Of course, though they could use a different aircraft to operate the flight to GDL and turn this plane somewhere else in the network.

Two problems with that are that there is no A319 base at LAX, and that the A319 would have to do a redeye trans-con turn, and AA isn't using the A319s on trans-cons.

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
So, has the T4 FIS closed completely?

Also, once they move into the 4 preferential gates, they really would only need an hour turn.

Okay, but that would get the plane into GDL way too early. So either it leaves GDL later, or it makes a redeye on a newer route that is a longer distance, like SAL.

N1120A · Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:44 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 11):
Two problems with that are that there is no A319 base at LAX, and that the A319 would have to do a redeye trans-con turn, and AA isn't using the A319s on trans-cons.

Don't they have Airbus pilots in LAX? Are they all JFK based?

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 11):
Okay, but that would get the plane into GDL way too early. So either it leaves GDL later, or it makes a redeye on a newer route that is a longer distance, like SAL.

I'm saying you rotate a different aircraft to GDL and put this on another route.

chepos · Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:50 pm

The LAX AA T4 FIS facility is closed, international arrivals go into TBIT.

AR385 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:56 pm

I suppose if any airline has a chance for MTY-MIA to work that would be AA. However, won´t it cannibalize its MTY-DFW feed?

ldvaviation · Fri Jan 23, 2015 7:57 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 10):
Also, once they move into the 4 preferential gates, they really would only need an hour turn.

Effectively, AA has already moved in.

LAXdude1023 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:04 pm

Quoting AR385 (Reply 14):
I suppose if any airline has a chance for MTY-MIA to work that would be AA. However, won´t it cannibalize its MTY-DFW feed?

DFW-MTY has a pretty large O&D base. Its not hugely reliant on connecting traffic vs. say DFW-LIM. Even then, MIA-MTY will focus more on Florida O&D.

commavia · Fri Jan 23, 2015 8:10 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Thread starter):
Proposed schedules effective June 4, 2015:

AA 903 LAX 0030-0540 GDL Daily A319
AA 985 GDL 1955-2120 LAX Daily A319

AA 231 MIA 1655-1915 MTY Daily A319
AA 319 MTY 0715-1110 MIA Daily A319

Both of these are old AA routes, LAX-GDL last operated in the early 2000s and MIA-MTY in the late 1990s.

Good news - two cool adds. Hopefully these are just harbingers of more to come.

Quoting Mah4546 (Thread starter):
The LAX-GDL route simply makes use of an A319 that would otherwise RON in Guadalajara between Dallas turns.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 1):
Great utilization of the 319! About time AA jumps back on LAX-GDL.

Agreed - smart use of aircraft time.

Quoting AA767400 (Reply 1):
Hopefully, this will open up more LAX-Latin America.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 3):
I wouldn't be shocked to see a combination of LAX-SJO/MGA/SAL/GUA.

These markets seem like "natural" fits for AA given AA's strong and growing presence at LAX, and AA's historically strong position in each one of these markets with multiple daily nonstops to MIA and, in several cases, also DFW.

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 11):
AA isn't using the A319s on trans-cons.

Not today, although starting on 5 March, AA will be operating them to ATL 3x daily.

Quoting LDVAviation (Reply 15):
Effectively, AA has already moved in.

Seems like every time I arrive into T4 these days, I always see either the PVG or NRT 777 sitting over at TBIT.

MaverickM11 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 9:08 pm

LAXGDL is so cheap and so local it really does nothing for the network but I guess AA can find out first hand now, even if it's utilization. 319 seems awfully big for MIAMTY...

MAH4546 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:19 pm

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
LAXGDL is so cheap and so local it really does nothing for the network but I guess AA can find out first hand now, even if it's utilization.

I think AA already knows that. It flew LAXGDL for a very long time in the past.

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 18):
319 seems awfully big for MIAMTY...

While I agree an ERJ-175 is better for the local market at 45 PDEW, it is likely high fares and probably decent connection flows to Europe/Caribbean given the wealth/stability of Monterrey. And it's easily going to stimulate as much as 100% local market fairly quickly.

LAXdude1023 · Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:29 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 19):
While I agree an ERJ-175 is better for the local market at 45 PDEW, it is likely high fares and probably decent connection flows to Europe/Caribbean given the wealth/stability of Monterrey. And it's easily going to stimulate as much as 100% local market fairly quickly.

Historically there has been a lot of wealth in Monterrey, but I wouldnt call it stable. Its one of the cartels favorite playgrounds in recent years. Close to the US border and a large amount of money.

N1120A · Fri Jan 23, 2015 10:53 pm

Quoting as739x (Reply 5):
I think what he means is the DFW aircraft would otherwise RON in GDL.

I know that. I mean the more than 2 hour turn in LAX.

mhkansan · Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:37 am

That LAX arrival seems really late. What connection opportunities are there in LAX at that hour, especially after going through TBIT customs, besides East Coast redeyes?

32andBelow · Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:44 am

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 22):

That LAX arrival seems really late. What connection opportunities are there in LAX at that hour, especially after going through TBIT customs, besides East Coast redeyes?

You don't think they can fill a flight from LA to Mexico on an a319 with O&D?

commavia · Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:44 am

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 22):
That LAX arrival seems really late. What connection opportunities are there in LAX at that hour, especially after going through TBIT customs, besides East Coast redeyes?

Australia and HKG on QANTAS and Cathay, respectively, although I doubt there will be many connections to those places from GDL. Nonetheless, it doesn't really matter - this O&D market is so large that the plane can likely be filled - at what fare, TBD - on that basis alone.

LAXintl · Sat Jan 24, 2015 12:46 am

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 22):
That LAX arrival seems really late. What connection opportunities are there in LAX at that hour, especially after going through TBIT customs, besides East Coast redeyes?

Flight is a play for the large local market - the 2nd largest US-Mexico city-pair as of YE2013.

N1120A · Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:07 am

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 25):
Flight is a play for the large local market - the 2nd largest US-Mexico city-pair as of YE2013.

Quoting commavia (Reply 24):
Nonetheless, it doesn't really matter - this O&D market is so large that the plane can likely be filled - at what fare, TBD - on that basis alone.

Quoting mhkansan (Reply 22):
That LAX arrival seems really late. What connection opportunities are there in LAX at that hour, especially after going through TBIT customs, besides East Coast redeyes?

At 128 seats, this is a pretty easy fill. Further, AA only runs 8 F seats and 3 rows of MCE, plus the exit row. Pretty solid density there. As long as they can keep yields up, which shouldn't be TOO hard, the O&D will flow.

One thing you should know about the local Mexican population is that a huge chunk is from Guadalajara and Jalisco generally.

32andBelow · Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:28 am

I wonder if AS will bleed any of the LAXGDL traffic.

AR385 · Sat Jan 24, 2015 3:58 am

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 20):
Historically there has been a lot of wealth in Monterrey, but I wouldnt call it stable. Its one of the cartels favorite playgrounds in recent years. Close to the US border and a large amount of money.

The wealth precisely made it now as of three years ago probably one of the safest and stable cities in Mexico. Over 14% of the State´s budget, and MTY is the wealthiest Metropolitan area in Mexico as well as the 2nd. contributor to Mexico´s GDP, goes directly to the new Police Force that has pretty much done away with organized crime. Believe me, it´s nothing like it was a the height of the drug war.

LAXintl · Sat Jan 24, 2015 4:10 am

I doubt route will make $$ for AA when going against lower cost Mexican competitors something likely why AA left the route before to begin with, but it replants the AA flag this large O&D market at relative low cost thanks to such utilization flying especially now as AA seems intent on building LAX. If it can thread water that is probably good enough.

AAR90 · Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:16 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 12):
Don't they have Airbus pilots in LAX?

Yes.

airliner371 · Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:20 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Thread starter):
AA 903 LAX 0030-0540 GDL Daily A319
AA 985 GDL 1955-2120 LAX Daily A319

Kind of surprised Southwest didn't jump on this while an authority was available. They haven't tried any international from LAX which surprises me.

skybird77 · Sat Jan 24, 2015 7:36 pm

Quoting LAXdude1023 (Reply 8):
I keep hoping for a DFW-MGA/TGU to complete DFW's Central America portfolio to go along with this!

Me too. However; I think it might be something like DFW-TGU-SAP-DFW (due to runway limitations at TGU) using the A319, and DFW-MGA-DFW.

ericm2031 · Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:10 am

Are there still route authorities left on LAX-GDL? With DL, AS, and UA I thought they were maxed out? Does this route allow 4 US carriers?

And is there still a connector planned from T1 to T2 as part of the renovation at LAX for Southwest? I seem to see lots of rumors but no confirmations. Would they even waste valuable gate space for international flights there or just focus on the domestic flights since they're maxed out on capacity now and could easily fill the renovation with more domestic cities?

MAH4546 · Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:12 am

Quoting ericm2031 (Reply 33):
Are there still route authorities left on LAX-GDL? With DL, AS, and UA I thought they were maxed out? Does this route allow 4 US carriers?

United discontinued LAXGDL.

LAXintl · Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:29 am

Quoting ericm2031 (Reply 33):
And is there still a connector planned from T1 to T2 as part of the renovation at LAX for Southwest? I seem to see lots of rumors but no confirmations.

Simply a rumor. No such plans incorporated in either the T-1 or T-2 refresh projects.

deltal1011man · Sun Jan 25, 2015 8:39 am

Quoting SkyBird77 (Reply 32):

Me too. However; I think it might be something like DFW-TGU-SAP-DFW (due to runway limitations at TGU) using the A319, and DFW-MGA-DFW.

I would think that if Delta can do ATL-TGU with its pocket rocket 73Ws AA should be able to do so with its 319s which, IIRC, are the highest weight/MTOW and 26K or 27K thrust engines. DFW-TGU isn't even 100 miles longer than ATL-TGU.

MaverickM11 · Sun Jan 25, 2015 1:22 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 31):
Kind of surprised Southwest didn't jump on this while an authority was available. They haven't tried any international from LAX which surprises me.

WN is locked out of the best LAX markets to Mexico because of the bilateral, and I think MEXSNA is giving them enough heartburn as it is...

Quoting 32andBelow (Reply 27):
I wonder if AS will bleed any of the LAXGDL traffic.

AS canceled their second trip, and their CASM is far lower than AA.

SWADawg · Sun Jan 25, 2015 6:40 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 35):

Not a rumor. There will eventually be a connector built. Gate 2 in T1 has been permanently closed in order to accommodate it.

laca773 · Sun Jan 25, 2015 10:24 pm

Quoting Mah4546 (Reply 11):
wo problems with that are that there is no A319 base at LAX, and that the A319 would have to do a redeye trans-con turn, and AA isn't using the A319s on trans-cons.

I could see LAX-PBI being flown with a A319 and if they were to add BDL back, that's another good route for the smallest Airbus.

ldvaviation · Sun Jan 25, 2015 11:13 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 35):
Simply a rumor. No such plans incorporated in either the T-1 or T-2 refresh projects.

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 38):
Not a rumor. There will eventually be a connector built. Gate 2 in T1 has been permanently closed in order to accommodate it.

There has been talk about such a connector. It remains on LAWA's wish list, along with the idea to tear down one of the south piers. But there is no PD booklet, a precursor to the RFP process. There's been no presentation before the board about its status or funding. In that sense, it is just talk at this time.

(Gate 2 in T1 was "closed" for other reasons.)

KD5MDK · Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:02 am

Quoting laca773 (Reply 39):
I could see LAX-PBI being flown with a A319 and if they were to add BDL back, that's another good route for the smallest Airbus.

Transcon with that pitch? I suspect there'd be a lot of one time fliers.

StuGLA · Tue Jan 27, 2015 1:46 am

It just seems, Aeroméxico decided to start MTY-MIA before American by 2 months

Seems their a/c choice is much better. Wish both of them good luck

http://www.elfinanciero.com.mx/empre...e-nueva-ruta-monterrey-miami.html. (In Spanish)

aacun · Tue Jan 27, 2015 11:10 am

There's also another city in Colombia that will be announced shortly along with some more DFW-Central America service. As far as I know it will be all A319 service

commavia · Tue Jan 27, 2015 12:03 pm

Quoting Aacun (Reply 43):
There's also another city in Colombia that will be announced shortly along with some more DFW-Central America service. As far as I know it will be all A319 service

Awesome - especially with A319s, I think BAQ, CTG and PEI should all be able to work from MIA, and SAP and MGA could both work from DFW.

aacun · Wed Jan 28, 2015 11:34 am

Yeah. It's one of those cities in Colombia you mentioned.

commavia · Wed Jan 28, 2015 1:05 pm

Quoting Aacun (Reply 45):
Yeah. It's one of those cities in Colombia you mentioned.

Cool - frankly, I think all three of them should be able to work, at some point, for AA from MIA. All are relatively large population centers with meaningful O&D demand to the U.S. and, like with just about everywhere else in South America, MIA in particular. In addition, at least BAQ and CTG both already have nonstops from MIA on Avianca.

commavia · Thu Jan 29, 2015 12:16 pm

No big surprise, but the U.S. DOT has granted approval to AA to operate both routes as of January 28, 2015.

Look forward to seeing how these markets do - given competition in both - and any additional new AA Latin America routes rumored from LAX, DFW and/or MIA.

IrishAyes · Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:12 pm

Perfect.

Interestingly, KX flies twice weekly from DFW to GCM from the end of May through October each year. I wonder if they will stick around after this summer

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