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TWA772LR
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United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:02 am

Coming off of a near $2 billion profit just for Q4 2014 alone, I think some expansion is in UAs future.

Right now UAs Europe network is pretty EWR centric, with ORD in second and IAD not far behind that. In the past year we have seen more 3 class aircraft out of EWR across the pond, clearly showing potential. And with more fuel efficient and cheaper to operate aircraft coming online, the expansion possibilities are great.

Some immediate growth I see are upgauging some 757 routes to 767/787s, and using the 757s to open up new markets (like the Azores, Canary Islands, LUX, North Africa, secondary South America) or return to old ones (DUS and CPH).

Some holes I see in UAs Europe network are HEL, CPH, DUS, VIE, WAW, IST, DME, LED just to name afew, not in any particular order. And particular routes that are holes are IAH-CDG/BRU/OSL, ORD-(pretty much everywhere that EWR has that ORD doesn't), LAX can use some more love (all they have is LHR on UA). And I think SFO-ARN wouldn't be a bad transit location for the west coast to a lot of Europe with the right aircraft.

What do you all think?
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mats
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:45 am

United Continental Holdings is in a state of some financial improvement, but it still hasn't merged! So perhaps they want to stabilise themselves as a company before any more significant expansion.

I think that with the fall in the Euro and the improved US economy, United might have its eyes on other business.
China, seems likely, considering it is the second largest economy in the world (by GDP). It has slowed a bit, but that's a relative description.

The UK is the fastest growing economy in the developed world, and United already has an exceptionally strong network in the UK (they only dropped Bristol and Gatwick.)

India is the other fast-growing economy, and United is the only US carrier serving India.

According to the Washington Post, the other fastest growing economies are Mongolia, Sierra Leone, Turkmenistan , Bhutan, Libya, Iraq, Laos, Timor Leste, Eritrea, and Zambia. As far as remote locations go, they require crews and aircraft to be "away from home" for longer stretches, and may not be as lucrative.

With the rise of more Joint Ventures, I do not foresee United operating its own aircraft on new routes. They may just join on with their Asian partners for more trans-Pacific flights.

The same applies for missing pieces in the European network, particularly Vienna. I just don't see that United has an incentive to offer its own metal to Vienna. AUA already serves JFK, Newark, Dulles, and Chicago. It's the same reason that United has no reason to serve Copenhagen with its own equipment: SAS has it covered. Sure there are some flights with joint ventures that use United metal, but these are larger, busier markets.

As far as Middle East goes, Newark-Dubai seems to have potential, but it would be hard to compete with Emirates. Other Gulf flights (Bahrain, Doha) didn't pan out, so United may not be so eager. Saudi Arabia is equally interesting in the wake of the King's death. No US airline serves the market. There have always been rumours of opening a flight from Dulles to Tel Aviv or Chicago to Tel Aviv (El Al dropped its Chicago service several years ago.) But my understanding is that United would rather have somewhat restricted capacity to ensure higher load factors and revenue.

Addis Ababa and Casablanca are both interesting due to Star Alliance hubs, but I do not know of strong enough business ties to warrant using United aircraft to either destination.
 
burchfiel
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:19 am

I would like to see IST return to UA's network, maybe via both EWR and IAD. Great connectivity to Africa, the Middle East, and Central Asia, among other areas.
 
UALFAson
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 8:21 am

I agree with much of what mats said, particularly in regard to joint ventures. In their earnings reports and investor calls, UA has stated that they only expect near-term capacity growth of 1-2 percent if I recall correctly, so I wouldn't expect multiple international route announcements, and certainly not to Europe, where the economy is frail in many places and even getting worse in others.

The addition of 3-class Europe capacity out of EWR isn't exactly a new and therefore promising development. PmCO had a problem of not having enough 3-class aircraft, so once the merger took place, one of the first things that happened was pulling pmUA 3-class 777s from IAD to EWR on select Europe routes, such as BRU.

Any international growth UA does announce is almost guaranteed to occur in the booming areas of East Asia. That said, I wouldn't be surprised if they go for Riyadh, given their previous willingness to experiment in the Middle East. Secondary Latin America markets are too dominated by AA.
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Robbie86
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:00 am

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
And I think SFO-ARN wouldn't be a bad transit location for the west coast to a lot of Europe with the right aircraft.

Wouldn't mind seeing that as well. A Boeing 787-8/9 would be a good fit for that route. And like you say, ARN is a good transit point, especially to Eastern Europe, HEL, RIX, TLL, WAW, MSQ, DME/SVO, LED and more.
 
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seahawk
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:14 am

I expect DUS to be served soon. Especially when LH stops offering long haul from there. EWR and ORD should work.
 
factsonly
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:52 am

In 2015 UA's hubs by total seats offered are:

1. IAH
2. ORD
3. EWR
4. DEN
5. SFO
6. IAD
7. LAX
8. MCO
9. LAS
10. CLE

Perhaps DEN and SFO could do with greater European connectivity.

http://centreforaviation.com/analysi...e-headwinds-ahead-in-1q2015-206534
 
stlgph
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:00 am

Quoting Burchfiel (Reply 2):
I would like to see IST return to UA's network, maybe via both EWR and IAD. Great connectivity to Africa, the Middle East, and Central Asia, among other areas.

UAL just can't offer the same experience and service offered by Turkish Airlines.
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S75752
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:12 am

Hopefully UA can defer some 763 retirements in favor of using the incoming 787s, 77W's, and 350's for expansion instead of replacement.

One thing that comes to mind is that EDI's 2x 752's could maybe get merged in to 1x 763, it seems like that route has been doing very well for them. Perhaps we could see that get an IAD 752.

I think that EWR-DXB could be a 789 possibility at the least, given the brute-force O&D of the NY area. Furthermore, many people have made the point in the past that the NJ area that EWR is closest to is also an O&D goldmine (hence the DL services out of there), so there is not a doubt in my mind that UA could at least have a 789 serving that.

EWR-STR I think would be quite likely. Given that DL somehow makes that work out of ATL, UA should be able to make that work like clockwork, especially given Germanwings presence. It'd likely be a 763.

ATH seems possible, regardless of their economy, given that DL and US manage to serve it seasonally. UA has A3 in ATH.

I think that there is effort to be made in getting more cities connected with other *A partners biggest hubs to patch up those holes. BRU is the first to show great potential for UA, given that SN only has a few 330's so that's not ideal for them to expand more to the USA themselves. UA already flies the 772's to BRU, so the potential is definitely present. I think that SFO would be the biggest one to connect, possibly IAH.
Secondly, VIE could be a priority overall for UA, given OS in the LH group. As for whether OS would be the one to expand with their fairly few widebodies or if it'd be UA is what I wonder. These holes are also SFO and possibly IAH (I'm not sure how European traffic compares between the two).

In addition to those, there is always the possibility of getting some smaller *A hubs and focus cities hooked up more thoroughly to the USA. Those seem to be DUS, ARN, GVA, OSL, TXL, WAW, LJU, which others that come to mind? As for whether it'd be UA launching new service to those, or the respective carriers launching service to the USA themselves seems like it'd be a matter of whether UA has existing services to the destinations, and whether the carriers local to those airports have a good amount of widebody orders or already available aircraft, or not. IAD, EWR, and ORD seem to naturally be well off in terms of those, from either side. SFO and IAH are currently lacking. IAH may have the disadvantage of having near-overflight to most of those over ORD, EWR to connect.

Aside from *A linkages that need yet to be made, there's always the possibilities within non-*A cities. I think that IAH can certainly get its CDG service back with a 763. An MAD service from SFO and IAH could be possible with a 788 and 763 respectively, with connecting traffic from USA and Latin America respectively (BCN could also stand a chance by pure tourism, but if DY is smart then they'll make BCN their own hub for that).

More biased moment, but I think that DUS and GVA could have potential from SFO, unless the local carrier chooses to take advantage of that themselves. I'd also say there may be room to compete with KL to AMS, by the significant tourist interest as well.

EWR could maybe support a 738 to KEF, given how difficult it is to try and get there on FI unless you happen to live near one of their US cities.

Overall, there's certainly a ton of possibilities for either UA or their *A buddies to expand between the USA and Europe, and I'd say especially those that help link two *A cities.

I would personally like to see some overlapping routes left to the foreign carrier, for UA to try and get more creative with the available craft.

[Edited 2015-01-26 03:14:47]
 
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seahawk
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:44 am

DUS has not much potential. ORD and something next to New York, that is about it. SFO is very seasonal.
 
Thomaas
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:03 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 8):
EWR-STR I think would be quite likely. Given that DL somehow makes that work out of ATL, UA should be able to make that work like clockwork, especially given Germanwings presence. It'd likely be a 763.

They dropped the route less than a year ago. STR has rail links to FRA and is close enough to MUC.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 8):
VIE could be a priority overall for UA, given OS in the LH group. As for whether OS would be the one to expand with their fairly few widebodies or if it'd be UA is what I wonder. These holes are also SFO and possibly IAH (I'm not sure how European traffic compares between the two).

VIE is very well served by OS, there is no need for UA to fly there from their hubs. I'm surprised at how much long-haul flights OS can sustain from the airport as VIE is quite a bit further than the other Euro hubs and O&D must bleed to virtually every other Euro carrier before it gets to OS. I think the most logical European add for UA is IAH-ZRH or IAH-BRU.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 8):
EWR could maybe support a 738 to KEF, given how difficult it is to try and get there on FI unless you happen to live near one of their US cities.

That is a very interesting idea.
 
klwright69
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 12:43 pm

Quoting mats (Reply 1):
As far as Middle East goes, Newark-Dubai seems to have potential, but it would be hard to compete with Emirates. Other Gulf flights (Bahrain, Doha) didn't pan out, so United may not be so eager. Saudi Arabia is equally interesting in the wake of the King's death. No US airline serves the market. There have always been rumours of opening a flight from Dulles to Tel Aviv or Chicago to Tel Aviv (El Al dropped its Chicago service several years ago.) But my understanding is that United would rather have somewhat restricted capacity to ensure higher load factors and revenue.

UA still serves BAH. But no more DOH. I am sure we will see UA in Saudi eventually.
 
jayunited
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:18 pm

Quoting seahawk (Reply 5):
I expect DUS to be served soon. Especially when LH stops offering long haul from there. EWR and ORD should work.

Years ago UA flew ORD-DUS but turned the route over to LH are you now saying LH is considering dropping DUS-EWR/ORD and that UA should resume service on its own metal?



Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
Some holes I see in UAs Europe network are HEL, CPH, DUS, VIE, WAW, IST, DME, LED just to name afew, not in any particular order.

While I understand what you are saying and would love to see UA add more flights to Europe I wonder is it really necessary when UA is in a JV with LH for UA to serve all these markets with their own metal?
 
EBGARN
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:20 pm

I think EWR - GOT with a B752 could be worth a try. At least 4 - 5 weekly.
A306,A319/20/21,A332/3,A343/6,A380,B717,B727,B737,B744,B752/3,B763,B772/3/W,C-130,AN26,CRJ900,Il62,DC-8/9/10,MD80's,BaeR
 
MIflyer12
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:56 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 8):
EWR could maybe support a 738 to KEF, given how difficult it is to try and get there on FI unless you happen to live near one of their US cities.

As it happens, lot of Americans and Canadians happen to live near Icelandair gateways. Much of the network is seasonal but so is passenger demand to/from Iceland! Map courtesy Icelandair.

DL runs an international config 757 JFK-KEF seasonally, and has expanded the season for 2015.

 
fun2fly
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 1:59 pm

CO had plans for deep India like BLR with the 787. Might still be an option with 11 789's coming on line and only 2 w/b 744's leaving the fleet.

Holes in major markets need to be filled like EWR to IST and DXB. Yes, other premium carriers operate these routes, but many fliers are corporate contract bound and therefore, UA has a market.

I'm surprised to see UA start VCE prior to more business centric markets.

However, I don't see any European expansion in 2015. Lots of new w/b capacity allows other a/c to expand Asia (2nd PVG>SFO). The best EWR can hope for is ICN.
 
VC10er
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:29 pm

Why hasn't United tried Iceland? In fact I don't recall any U.S. airline flying there, perhaps there has been or someone does currently and I'm just not aware!

Does Icelandair have the U.S. market all to themselves?
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S75752
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 2:41 pm

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 10):
I think the most logical European add for UA is IAH-ZRH or IAH-BRU.

IAH-ZRH might be best left to LX, which I wouldn't be too surprised if they were to start themselves with a 330 or soemthing on order. I think IAH and SFO would both be able to support BRU, but not the 772 that ORD, EWR, and IAD have. Probably 763 each.


Quoting seahawk (Reply 9):

DUS has not much potential. ORD and something next to New York, that is about it. SFO is very seasonal.

LH already serves ORD and EWR from DUS anyways, but if they were to drop it then I suppose UA could pick it up.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 16):
Why hasn't United tried Iceland? In fact I don't recall any U.S. airline flying there, perhaps there has been or someone does currently and I'm just not aware!

Does Icelandair have the U.S. market all to themselves?

DL does too as someone said above, from JFK. Also, WOW Air stepped in to the US market I think, I'm not sure how that's working out for them though.
I for one would like to see FI get pulled in to *A... Or SOME alliance so getting a flight on them doesn't have to be awkward to handle the interlining of.

Quoting jayunited (Reply 12):
I wonder is it really necessary when UA is in a JV with LH for UA to serve all these markets with their own metal?

I think that the key thing is more about getting hubs connected. *A to *A seems like a good idea for connections on both ends. It could be either on UA's metal or the carrier at the other end, whichever wants it or has the craft for it.

Quoting Thomaas (Reply 10):

VIE is very well served by OS, there is no need for UA to fly there from their hubs. I'm surprised at how much long-haul flights OS can sustain from the airport as VIE is quite a bit further than the other Euro hubs and O&D must bleed to virtually every other Euro carrier before it gets to OS.

Eh, VIE doesnt seem like it outlies that much from the other Star hubs. LH group anyways, so UA probably has a nice joint venture set up with them as well for connections, with how close they are with LH. OS does serve it well with their own metal, and I would prefer to see OS expand to the *A hubs in the USA rather than UA, but it just doesn't look like they have the numbers of craft they'd need to do it.
As for the O&D bleed... well... if the fare is right, as it always goes...

Quoting fun2fly (Reply 15):
CO had plans for deep India like BLR with the 787. Might still be an option with 11 789's coming on line and only 2 w/b 744's leaving the fleet.

I think SFO-DEL is far more likely than EWR-BLR for many reasons, range being one of them. The question is whether it'd be AI or UA to do it... Or if UA decides to not bother with AI despite *A, and 9W ends up doing it with codeshares on both ends. I don't even know how that weird situation works out between AI and 9W and UA now, besides "It's complicated".
 
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mats
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:04 pm

Sorry about my error regarding Bahrain. I got it stuck in my head from watching "Madam Secretary." One of the episodes mentions that there are no flights from Dulles to Bahrain, only Doha. Instead of questioning a Hollywood TV script, I somehow assumed that United dropped its Bahrain flight. They sounded so convincing on TV  
 
stlgph
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:12 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 17):
Also, WOW Air stepped in to the US market I think, I'm not sure how that's working out for them though.
Quoting S75752 (Reply 17):
I for one would like to see FI get pulled in to *A... Or SOME alliance so getting a flight on them doesn't have to be awkward to handle the interlining of.

WOW Air comes to the U.S. in March and May to Boston and Baltimore.
I've interlined onto and off of Icelandair before. It was very easy and no big deal.
A United 737 out of Newark into Reykjavik is an interesting idea but then again that require United to come up with a good idea and make it happen. The same could be said for offering service out of O'Hare into Reykjavik. O'Hare is a market that Icelandair wants to get into but has balked when the opportunities have come around.
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LAXintl
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 4:36 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
Coming off of a near $2 billion profit just for Q4 2014 alone,

 

Think you need to go back and reread the financial numbers.
Full year income was barely $1.97Bil. Q4 income was $461mil before specials, but add those in they ended up with mere $28mil net income.

http://ir.unitedcontinentalholdings....3680&p=irol-newsArticle&id=2009546

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):
I think some expansion is in UAs future.

If you heard the earnings call, they specifically said Europe is soft and faces excess capacity. To counter this United has is reducing capacity (only international segment with less capacity yoy) to keep yields up.

So now is not the time to going jumping into bunch of new markets.
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Markam
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 8):
An MAD service from SFO and IAH could be possible with a 788 and 763 respectively, with connecting traffic from USA and Latin America respectively (BCN could also stand a chance by pure tourism, but if DY is smart then they'll make BCN their own hub for that).

I think (or hope) that before starting SFO or IAH to MAD they would make the IAD route year round (in S14 seasonal service lasted only a couple of months, but in S15 it has been expanded, so hopefully they are doing well and will make it a permanent part of the network).
 
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lesfalls
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:30 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):

UA can't compete on new markets with other carriers do to the carriers that they are competing with offering better service and cheaper prices.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 17):

LH will definetly not drop Its DUS-EWR,ORD and YYZ. Those routes are very profitable for them(Loads are almost always full). LH might though in the future make eurowings operate these routes.

Quoting VC10er (Reply 16):

It's because UA can barley compete with FI and WOW air!
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catiii
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:41 pm

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 22):

UA can't compete on new markets with other carriers do to the carriers that they are competing with offering better service and cheaper prices.

Which markets and which carriers? Pricing is usually the same...
 
stratacruiser
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 5:49 pm

I've long felt SFO - TLV would be a winner given the strong tech-industry ties between Silicon Valley and Israel. Several CA-based multinationals tech firms have sizable operations in Israel.
 
United1
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:06 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 6):
Perhaps DEN and SFO could do with greater European connectivity.

I can see UA trying DEN-LHR again the 787 between that and the JV link to FRA that's probably about all the service Star needs to provide out of DEN to Europe.

I don't think that SF is an undeserved market though...Atlantic++ flies to LHRx2, FRAx3, CDGx1, MUC and ZRH. That's a pretty decent amount of lift from a west coast city.
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busewils
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:16 pm

I think UA will prefer starting BRU-SFO before BRU-IAH (or before BRU-LAX & BRU-DEN) because SN has shown interest in SFO in the past. The reason they haven't started the route yet is because SN only has A330's for long haul, no spare aircraft and they would need some longer range aircraft (perhaps Swiss' A343's when the 77W's start arriving?).
 
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lesfalls
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:18 pm

Quoting catiii (Reply 23):

CPH, HEL .
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SFOA380
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:20 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 25):
I don't think that SF is an undeserved market though...Atlantic++ flies to LHRx2, FRAx3, CDGx1, MUC and ZRH. That's a pretty decent amount of lift from a west coast city.

BRU on SN & VIE on OS. That's my dream scenario to round out the Euro *A at SFO.
 
N1120A
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:26 pm

Quoting UALFAson (Reply 3):
The addition of 3-class Europe capacity out of EWR isn't exactly a new and therefore promising development. PmCO had a problem of not having enough 3-class aircraft, so once the merger took place, one of the first things that happened was pulling pmUA 3-class 777s from IAD to EWR on select Europe routes, such as BRU.

BRU is largely due to cargo demand. That route really needs widebodies. It happens to also be able to support some F. BRU was a 777 out of IAD for years.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 8):
Hopefully UA can defer some 763 retirements in favor of using the incoming 787s, 77W's, and 350's for expansion instead of replacement.

They already have stated they are deferring 763 retirements. They are likely to convert some or all of the 3 class planes to 2 class.

Quoting S75752 (Reply 17):
I for one would like to see FI get pulled in to *A... Or SOME alliance so getting a flight on them doesn't have to be awkward to handle the interlining of.

FI would have to change their product substantially.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 19):
A United 737 out of Newark into Reykjavik is an interesting idea but then again that require United to come up with a good idea and make it happen.

Indeed, a 739ER would be intriguing. EWR-KEF is around the same distance as LAX-KOA/HNL, and you don't have the same issues with ETOPS diversion rules. A 738 could definitely plow that route.

Quoting stlgph (Reply 19):
The same could be said for offering service out of O'Hare into Reykjavik. O'Hare is a market that Icelandair wants to get into but has balked when the opportunities have come around.

That would be fringy with a 737, unless they used a 73W. Would you use an international 757? Would you use a UA ETOPS 757, which are kind of precious to them on the Hawaii runs at the moment?

Quoting stratacruiser (Reply 24):

I've long felt SFO - TLV would be a winner given the strong tech-industry ties between Silicon Valley and Israel. Several CA-based multinationals tech firms have sizable operations in Israel.

Too much plane is needed for the route. I guess its a thought when the current 788s get replaced by 789s on various established routes. LAX is a much, much larger market to TLV, which is why LY comes here and not to SFO.
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a380787
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:36 pm

Between UA and its partners, I'd say NYC (JFK+EWR), IAD, and ORD are very well served already.

IAH can restart CDG, and DEN can use a LHR flight (763 or 788). MAD should do better than EWR plus IAD seasonal, even if it's a oneworld hub. MXP can definitely do more than just EWR.

LAX is a bit thin with only LHR (UA) and FRA MUC ZRH IST (LH LX TK).
 
N1120A
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:42 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 30):
LAX is a bit thin with only LHR (UA) and FRA MUC ZRH IST (LH LX TK).

You left out NZ to LHR
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jetblastdubai
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:53 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 25):
I can see UA trying DEN-LHR

That's the only glaring, missing piece in UA's Europe portfolio. Having a non-aligned alliance carrier fly to the largest market in Europe from one of your own hubs, uncontested, should signal that there is market share for the taking.

Out of all of UA's hubs, DEN has to be the easiest to connect at as well as being far less prone to have delays or other operational problems so why not take advantage of that resource.

Some of the other secondary cities mentioned I feel could best be served via a partner's European hub either by connecting flight or even rail. As much as EWR/NYC is a gigantic market, loading up EWR with prime, long-haul routes only to have the whole schedule go belly-up when the weather dictates is a very expensive and customer service destroying event. Until EWR can actually handle the volume of traffic is currently has, putting more pressure (larger planes) on it will only make irrops exponentially worse.
 
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LAXintl
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 6:58 pm

United has already tried DEN-LHR for several years. It was fine in summer with tourist, but atrocious in winters.

Intra-West traffic can be easily funneled through other hubs - SFO/LAX/ORD and now IAH as well.

BA service to DEN really is not about DEN-LON, but DEN-Europe and beyond. UA covers this with the LH A++ DEN flight plus obviously connections via its other US hubs. DEN-LON itself does not need the capacity for another flight.
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a380787
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:00 pm

Quoting N1120A (Reply 31):

You left out NZ to LHR

Whoops. I keep forgetting that one.

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 32):

Out of all of UA's hubs, DEN has to be the easiest to connect at as well as being far less prone to have delays or other operational problems so why not take advantage of that resource.

Agreed. With its central location, very few east-west connections require significant detouring. It's probably the best located hub within the Mountain Time Zone (others being SLC and PHX).
 
Rdh3e
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:06 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 32):
Out of all of UA's hubs, DEN has to be the easiest to connect at as well as being far less prone to have delays or other operational problems so why not take advantage of that resource.

USA today just did a survey of "best airports for a layover", and DIA came in 2nd behind DFW. Pretty good all things considered.

1. Dallas/Fort Worth Intl. (DFW)
2. Denver Intl. (DEN)
3. Minneapolis-St Paul Intl. (MSP)
4. Detroit Metro (DTW)
5. San Francisco Intl. (SFO)
6. Charlotte Douglas Intl. (CLT)
7. Chicago O'Hare Intl. (ORD)
8. Seattle Tacoma Intl. (SEA)
9. McCarran Intl. (LAS)
10. Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta Intl. (ATL)

http://www.10best.com/awards/travel/best-airport-for-a-layover/
 
Max Q
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:13 pm

Quoting factsonly (Reply 6):
In 2015 UA's hubs by total seats offered are:

1. IAH
2. ORD
3. EWR
4. DEN
5. SFO
6. IAD
7. LAX
8. MCO
9. LAS
10. CLE

UA is closing the CLE hub and does not have a hub in MCO or LAS
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catiii
Posts: 3313
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:14 pm

Quoting lesfalls (Reply 27):
CPH, HEL .

On which carriers at which fares?
 
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jetblastdubai
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 7:48 pm

Quoting LAXintl (Reply 33):
BA service to DEN really is not about DEN-LON, but DEN-Europe and beyond. UA covers this with the LH A++ DEN flight plus obviously connections via its other US hubs. DEN-LON itself does not need the capacity for another flight.

I'll take your word on that since you seem to be a pretty reliable source for information on here. My thinking was that for all the passengers that fly UA and connect through ORD/IAH to LHR many would opt for a DEN connection if it were available.

http://www.gcmap.com/mapui?R=500nm%40den

^^^^^^ the 'cone' of opportunity PLUS any city in CA outside of LAX and SFO that have non-stop service to DEN.
 
OSL777FLYER
Posts: 156
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:18 pm

Quoting TWA772LR (Thread starter):

UA served EWR-CPH for a while, but decided to drop it. SK are already established well there and have been for a long time.

With regards to IAH-OSL, that seems very unlikely. However SK flies a BBJ on SVG (Which is Norway's oil capital) to IAH and that route has been doing way better than expected at this point in time.

I did see that UA will begin seasonal services to NCL this summer. Great for NCL to finally get a transatlantic service, something they have tried for years
 
frostyj
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:22 pm

Well I think they already have an extensive route map so I can't see them expanding further expect for a few cities not covered such as Istanbul and Warsaw. I mean they really do not need to expand any further than now.
[url=http://m.maploco.com/details/5f34zxvq][img]http://www.maploco.com/vmap/s/8395334.png[/img][/url]
 
frostyj
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:24 pm

Quoting S75752 (Reply 8):

Yes KEF is another place that should and could be included. I don't think they should increase the EDI to a 763 because there is less frequency and we all know frequency is better.

I hope with the 737 MAX they can increase frequency from some UK airports.
[url=http://m.maploco.com/details/5f34zxvq][img]http://www.maploco.com/vmap/s/8395334.png[/img][/url]
 
lhcvg
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:33 pm

Quoting RDH3E (Reply 38):

And if memory serves, somebody on here pointed out a while back that MCO is essentially all mainline (don't they have an ex-CO mx base there?), and likewise LAS has a very proportion of mainline for any non-hub station. So even if neither are hubs, they certainly qualify as major stations.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 9:43 pm

Quoting LHCVG (Reply 43):

And if memory serves, somebody on here pointed out a while back that MCO is essentially all mainline (don't they have an ex-CO mx base there?), and likewise LAS has a very proportion of mainline for any non-hub station. So even if neither are hubs, they certainly qualify as major stations.

BOS is another "relatively" large station (by UA non-hub standards, but nothing close to what DL or US/AA has)
 
Delta757MD88
Posts: 145
Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2015 12:46 am

RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 10:12 pm

EWR-CPH is served by SAS. Sometimes the occasional A343.There is a ton of SAS at EWR. One of BA's EWR-LHR segments is served daily by the 787. Icelandair fly's into EWR sometimes.UA should go back to IST and CPH then turkish and SAS would have some competition.
Flown on: MD-88/90 DC-9 717 737-7/8/900, 757-2/300, 767-3/400 777-200/300ER 787-9, E145/170/175, CRJ-100/200/700/900, A319/320 A333 A350 Q300/400.
 
Rdh3e
Posts: 3599
Joined: Wed Mar 30, 2011 2:09 pm

RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:00 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 39):
^^^^^^ the 'cone' of opportunity PLUS any city in CA outside of LAX and SFO that have non-stop service to DEN.

But you'd have to say "what new passengers would they get" because for any of those places that have existing connections via a different UA hub the value would have to be discounted due possibly making the existing flights worse.
 
Planeflyer
Posts: 1445
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:49 pm

Maybe I've missed something but with the Europe economies so weak with no end in sight why would they not cut back?

With fuel costs where they are why not try to strip off some Indian business class traffic by offering direct services with the 789? Yep I know about EK and fully appreciate that Indian business men love the upper deck on the 380 but if you make the flight enough times saving the 6-7hours must mean something to someone.

Maybe they could do more with 767 into UK?
 
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LAXintl
Posts: 24116
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Mon Jan 26, 2015 11:56 pm

Quoting Planeflyer (Reply 47):
Maybe I've missed something but with the Europe economies so weak with no end in sight why would they not cut back?

  

And that is exactly what UA is doing. Atlantic is the only international region where its planning capacity decline year over year.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
 
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antoniemey
Posts: 1417
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 5:38 pm

RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:17 am

Quoting stlgph (Reply 7):
UAL just can't offer the same experience and service offered by Turkish Airlines.

Sure they can... by rebooking all their Middle Eeast and Asian passengers onto the 11:30 IADIST TK flight when their inbound flight to IAD is delayed and they won't make their connections to DXB or FRA.
Make something Idiot-proof, and the Universe will make a more inept idiot.
 
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N62NA
Posts: 4443
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RE: United And Future Service To Europe

Tue Jan 27, 2015 2:40 am

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 32):
Until EWR can actually handle the volume of traffic is currently has, putting more pressure (larger planes) on it will only make irrops exponentially worse.

Actually, putting in larger planes is part of the solution. That, and cutting back on the ridiculous amount of "frequency" on some routes.

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