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RJ321
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Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:03 am

Malaysa declared MH370 an accident and presumed all those who were onboard dead, and the aircraft is said to be lost somewhere in the Indian ocean.
Source: http://m.bbc.com/news/world-asia-31039460

[Edited 2015-01-29 03:08:16]
 
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KarelXWB
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RE: Search For MH370 Is Suspended

Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:07 am

Quoting RJ321 (Thread starter):
Search has been suspended

That information is incorrect, search is still ongoing.
What we leave behind is not as important as how we've lived.
 
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Miami
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:17 am

Quoting KarelXWB (Reply 1):
That information is incorrect, search is still ongoing.

Search is still going. Even though it was been declared "accident".
Aviation is proof that given, the will, we have the capacity to achieve the impossible. - Eddie Rickenbacker
 
ltbewr
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Thu Jan 29, 2015 11:48 am

This is critical to many as can now file claims with life insurance companies for payments and for certain widow/children benefits from governments to victim families. For surviving children who lost parents, it can mean Guardians can fully take over legal parental responsibility as well as allow Estates and property to be legally distributed.
After over 9 months, and no sign of the lost aircraft's remains, it is cruel to hold up any insurance and benefit payments that many may need for survival due to loss of a possible main family income earner or at least bring some closure in the context of reality of remains never found or many years from now.
 
rj777
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:12 pm

I gotta agree with enilria, there's been no debris from MH370 found, so to use the word "accident" shows pretty bad judgement. I believe the word "incident" would be a better choice.
 
AIRWALK
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:30 pm

Quoting enilria (Reply 4):
Quoting rj777 (Reply 5):

No, they are using the term accident according to the ICAO definition. ICAO Annex 13 defines accident as an occurrence associated with the operation of an aircraft which takes place between the time any person boards the aircraft with the intention of flight until such time as all such persons have disembarked.

The definition has several points one being when an aircraft is missing or is completely inaccessible. One note states that an aircraft is considered to be missing when the official search has been terminated and the wreckage has not been located.
I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
stgs1988
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:36 pm

Part of the Official Announcement

Quoting:

ANNOUNCEMENT ON MH370
BY
DIRECTOR GENERAL
DEPARTMENT OF CIVIL AVIATION MALAYSIA


23. It is therefore, with the heaviest heart and deepest sorrow that, on behalf of the Government of Malaysia, we officially declare Malaysia Airlines flight MH370 an accident in accordance with the Standards of Annexes 12 and 13 to the Chicago Convention and that all 239 of the passengers and crew onboard MH370 are presumed to have lost their lives.


May their life rest in peace.

Full text:

http://www.dca.gov.my/MH370/Announcement%20of%20MH370.pdf
 
a380787
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Thu Jan 29, 2015 2:36 pm

I'm surprised it took so long. We're nearly at the 1-year mark of the "accident".

Speaking of MH, can they get their rebranding going already? Kazanah is so slow ...
 
MEA-707
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:08 pm

Isn't there any juridical , insurance or economical implication that they call it an 'accident' instead of (likely/possible) 'foul play' or 'sabotage'?

[Edited 2015-01-29 07:17:50]
nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Thu Jan 29, 2015 3:27 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 10):
Isn't there any juridical , insurance or economical
implication that they call it an 'accident' instead of (likely/possible) 'foul play' or 'sabotage'?

I don't know, but I assume that it is considered an accident until proven otherwise.

If they are going to claim that it is foul play, surely they need to present some kind
of evidence that foul play is the cause which is quite difficult when the plane have
disappeared (more or less) without a trace.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
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flyingturtle
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Thu Jan 29, 2015 6:13 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 8):
Isn't there any juridical , insurance or economical implication that they call it an 'accident' instead of (likely/possible) 'foul play' or 'sabotage'?

Surely there is. But it depends on the insurance contracts MH has signed... and I guess we don't know their insurance terms. Many insurances won't cover damages that occurred during war, so that might be a problem with MH17.

But when an official source says it was an accident, and MH sues the insurance for the damages, it helps the airline.


David
Reading accident reports is what calms me down
 
Desh
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Thu Jan 29, 2015 9:47 pm

I guess at a minimum this will alleviate some financial stress on these families. Seems this was a practical move to that end.

Hopefully not an begining of the end for the effort to figure out what happend. Crazy to think we are here a year from now without much concrete information as to the whereabouts of the aircraft and its contents.

RIP (maybe) and condolances to the families.
"History is merely a list of surprises. It can only prepare us to be surprised yet again." - Kurt Vonnegut
 
AIRWALK
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Thu Jan 29, 2015 10:44 pm

Quoting MEA-707 (Reply 8):
Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 9):

Again, Its ICAO terminology, not based on the actual meaning of the word accident. It is not related to the cause. Have a look at ICAO Annex 13.

Quoting rj777 (Reply 4):
I believe the word "incident" would be a better choice.

Accident = damage and/or injury

Incident = could have been damage and/or injury which did not result
I'm sure this thread will take off soon
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Fri Jan 30, 2015 12:13 am

Quoting ltbewr (Reply 3):
This is critical to many as can now file claims with life insurance companies for payments and for certain widow/children benefits from governments to victim families.

  

Quoting a380787 (Reply 7):
I'm surprised it took so long. We're nearly at the 1-year mark of the "accident".

I'm surprised it was announced now, not sooner. There has been very little new news for some time now, so in a sense, not much has changed? So why was the announcement made now? Moreover, was it more than a coincidence that this declaration was made just day after it was claimed that the search ships are congregating in a similar area around 90E 37S???

I wouldn't be surprised if there are more MH370 announcements some time soon...
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
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zeke
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Fri Jan 30, 2015 1:44 am

Quoting AIRWALK (Reply 12):

That is correct, under the ICAO standards, it is deemed an accident as the aircraft is missing or complelty inaccessible.
“Don't be a show-off. Never be too proud to turn back. There are old pilots and bold pilots, but no old, bold pilots.” E. Hamilton Lee, 1949
 
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Thunderboltdrgn
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Tue Feb 03, 2015 12:43 pm

An article from FG about the definition of a missing plane as an accident:

Quoting Flightglobal:


Australian officials are seeking to change the formal definition of an aircraft accident
to clarify uncertainties thrown up by the case of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370.

In a paper to this week’s ICAO high-level safety conference in Montreal, representatives
want clearer guidance over the status of a missing aircraft as well as the transition
between search operations for survivors and those for crash investigation purposes.

It points out that, during the hunt for MH370, the Australian operation transitioned
from search-and-rescue to search-and-recovery, around the end of April 2014.

But the paper says there was “no clear guidance” as to whether the continuing
effort was the responsibility of the Australian rescue co-ordination centre or the
Malaysian accident investigation authority.
Like a thunderbolt of lightning the Dragon roars across the sky. Il Drago Ruggente
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:27 am

Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 15):
It points out that, during the hunt for MH370, the Australian operation transitioned
from search-and-rescue to search-and-recovery, around the end of April 2014.
Quoting thunderboltdrgn (Reply 15):
But the paper says there was “no clear guidance” as to whether the continuing
effort was the responsibility of the Australian rescue co-ordination centre or the
Malaysian accident investigation authority.

As much as I want 9M-MRO found I can't say I blame the Australians for "seeking to change the formal definition of an aircraft accident to clarify uncertainties thrown up by the case of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370" given the amount of Australian taxpayer money being thrown at something that has clearly not been a search and *rescue* for many months.

Australia's maritime search and rescue zone is just that - a search and rescue zone - not a search and recovery zone.

Malaysia should be funding the entire recovery effort for their lost item.
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388
 
tailskid
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:57 am

Quoting 777Jet (Reply 16):
Malaysia should be funding the entire recovery effort for their lost item.

I think Malaysia would be happy with a ruling like that. Then they would end funding for the search immediately and that would be that. I don't believe that Malaysia wants that plane to be found.

IMO from the beginning Australia has been acting against Malaysias' wishes. I have read that Australia and Malaysia haven't had cordial relations - going back before MH-370. I don't know what their issues are and I haven't as yet run across any in depth analysis on the subject.

I also don't know why Australia is "seeking to change the formal definition of an aircraft accident to clarify uncertainties thrown up by the case of Malaysia Airlines flight MH370" but I suspect that it is a reason which wouldn't be obvious to someone who isn't up to date on the chess game going on between these two nations. That includes me.
 
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777Jet
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RE: Malaysia Officially Declared MH370 An Accident

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:29 am

Quoting tailskid (Reply 17):
Quoting 777Jet (Reply 16):
Malaysia should be funding the entire recovery effort for their lost item.

I think Malaysia would be happy with a ruling like that. Then they would end funding for the search immediately and that would be that. I don't believe that Malaysia wants that plane to be found.

I also get the feeling that Malaysia doesn't want 9M-MRO found. And, from the very early on cover-ups, I would not be surprised at all if people feel that Malaysia did not want 9M-MRO found from the very beginning.

If it gets to the point where Australia is no longer willing to provide funding, and Malaysia follows, then I wonder what China would do given that the majority of the pax where Chinese?

Such a move by Malaysia would really test the relations between Malaysia and China.

Nonetheless, I wonder if China would pick up most of if not all of the funding costs on its own if both Australia and Malaysia pulled out?

It would not surprise me if China funded the search and recovery for at least some time if it came down to that.

[Edited 2015-02-03 18:34:07]
DC10-10/30,MD82/88/90, 717,727,732/3/4/5/7/8/9ER,742/4,752/3,763/ER,772/E/L/3/W,788/9, 306,320,321,332/3,346,359,388

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