Moderators: jsumali2, richierich, ua900, PanAm_DC10, hOMSaR

 
LoneStarMike
Posts: 2804
Joined: Sat Jul 01, 2000 1:02 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:21 am

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 9):
Gosh, I hope this means that OMA finally gets a nonstop!! Ease of connections from OMA to places like AUS, HOU and SAT, and other smaller southern cities.

In addition, it was the Nebraska US Senator at the time that pushed the wright amendment to go away to begin with, it seems like WN seems to have forgotten this!

I think a DAL-OMA flight would do very well - Especially if it continued on as a through flight to MSP.

Doesn't DL charge a pretty penny for OMA-MSP?

LoneStarMike
 
airliner371
Topic Author
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:22 am

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 49):
Even though Puerto Rico wouldn't be considered an international flight, it's not one of the 50 states or the District of Columbia.

I figured but wasn't positive. Our a.net wright amendment expert as always, thank you!

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 49):
at least not without a change to the law.. The Wright Amendment Reform Act

Who know's what Delta will do.  
 
737tdi
Posts: 1116
Joined: Sun Sep 02, 2007 10:05 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:30 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 51):
Who know's what Delta will do.

They are going to sue, that is what they are going to do. If they do they will be fighting the 20 gate limit at the same time and I believe they will lose due to this. They may use a different strategy but I still see a loss. JMO.
 
joeljack
Posts: 652
Joined: Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:38 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:33 am

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 50):

Quoting Joeljack (Reply 9):
Gosh, I hope this means that OMA finally gets a nonstop!! Ease of connections from OMA to places like AUS, HOU and SAT, and other smaller southern cities.

In addition, it was the Nebraska US Senator at the time that pushed the wright amendment to go away to begin with, it seems like WN seems to have forgotten this!

I think a DAL-OMA flight would do very well - Especially if it continued on as a through flight to MSP.

Doesn't DL charge a pretty penny for OMA-MSP?

LoneStarMike

Yes, I 100 percent agree with you. And yes, Oma-msp is really really expensive so most I know have to drive the 6 hours. This route would be very welcomed too!!
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:41 am

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 16):
WN is also Rumored to be returning 16 Slots/ 8 flights to UA in EWR As part of the DAL deal.

Aren't these the gates/slots that UA/CO gave up at the request of the gov't to get their merger approved?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
mcg
Posts: 1095
Joined: Tue Sep 16, 2003 11:49 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:43 am

Is Love Field a fortress hub?
 
airliner371
Topic Author
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:49 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 54):
Aren't these the gates/slots that UA/CO gave up at the request of the gov't to get their merger approved?

Yes they are. All 36 slots or 18 slot pairs are leased from United as part of the merger agreement. That is why I have my doubts that the slots are part of the deal.

Quoting mcg (Reply 55):
Is Love Field a fortress hub?

There are 153 Southwest flights each day. They currently control 16 of the 20 gates, that will now increase to 18. Call it what you will, focus city, hub, fortress hub or base, in the end, a name is just a name. You need to look at flight levels and seats among other things to make your own judgment.
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5420
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:50 am

Quoting Okie (Reply 31):
WN did not have enough aircraft to use the 16 gates they have now and let DL use the spare capacity.
Now WN has 2 more gates. I suspect it will be a while before WN has enough aircraft to do 18-20 more gate turns per day.
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 32):
WN is operating 153 flights out of DAL. That is 9.5 flights per gate. How many more flights do you want them to have for 16 gates? WN will probably get more used 73Gs or cancel some classic retirements to fund the new flights. WN has made it clear they have a lot of flexibility to change their fleet
Quoting Cubsrule (Reply 40):
I'm not sure that 9.5 is a comfortable number for WN at a station like DAL. That's about the utilization at which things really started to come off the rails at STL in late 2009 and early 2010. LAX runs a number higher than that IIRC but is a bit different because it has much nicer weather and isn't as omnidirectional because of its geography.

Yes, the question of a/c availability is a big one in my mind. I'm sure WN will come up with quite a few frames but I really doubt they will have all they need right away to create ~18-20 new flights all at once.

SAN, with a high flight count, this April, of 102 and 11 gates works out to ~9-9.5 flts/gate/day and from what I hear, that's getting more and more difficult to manage. Turns are definitely getting longer, a/c are getting larger, weather issues around the nation in view of existing congestion, are all seeming to indicate the need for fewer flts/gate for WN.

I agree that DAL would seem much easier an operation if that 9.5 gate utilization is lowered a bit and this might be a good time to try to do that.

(That all being said, I could see SAN gaining at least one more DAL-flight in addition to the 2 that we started with last year. Eventually...)

bb
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14146
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:06 am

Quoting mayor (Reply 54):

Aren't these the gates/slots that UA/CO gave up at the request of the gov't to get their merger approved?

UA leased these slots and gates to WN on their own, they were not ordered to divest them, as a way to win approval. Unlike the US/AA merger the DOJ/DOT did not require UA to divest anything, they (UA) realized that if they didn't lease these gates and slots to WN the Government would make them. I guess they picked WN as they though they would be less competitive at EWR than say B6, NK etc.. To a certain extent they were right, WN never blew the doors off anyone at EWR. B6 would have been more competitive.

The gates and slots were the sum of pre-merger UA's entire EWR operation, three gates and 18 daily flights. UA leased them to WN, they still belong to UA. They were never divested, they were never part of any Government ordered divestiture. If WN gives up the lease on 8 of the 18 daily slots at EWR the DOT/DOJ they're free to do so.

Heck I think UA should look to trade some of their slots at LGA and DCA, the ones that currently support their CLE flights, to an airline like B6 to get them to also reduce their footprint at EWR. It would suck for EWR travelers to lose options, and for UA to tighten their grip on EWR which already has some of the highest fares in the Nation. However for UA they could do a lot more if they were to swap DCA and LGA slots, which are supporting 50 seat regional jet flights to CLE, for more EWR slots which they could use for anything from more 739s to MCO or a new international route like EWR-GIG.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
User avatar
SANFan
Posts: 5420
Joined: Sun Aug 06, 2006 10:10 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:10 am

I'm just wondering if VX was also negotiating to try to get those 2 gates? I can't imagine they're real thrilled to see this happening.

bb
 
SWADawg
Posts: 588
Joined: Tue Dec 03, 2013 6:43 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:49 am

Quoting SANFan (Reply 59):

I wonder if this will ultimately squeeze VX out of DAL and back over to DFW? I then think that WN could end up with 19 of the 20 gates and DL takes the last one over eventually.
My posts are my opinion only and do not reflect the views of Southwest Airlines
 
HPRamper
Posts: 5027
Joined: Sat May 14, 2005 4:22 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:02 am

Quoting mcg (Reply 55):
Is Love Field a fortress hub?
Quoting airliner371 (Reply 56):
There are 153 Southwest flights each day. They currently control 16 of the 20 gates, that will now increase to 18. Call it what you will, focus city, hub, fortress hub or base, in the end, a name is just a name. You need to look at flight levels and seats among other things to make your own judgment.

While the semantic argument of WN vs "hub" remains, DAL is most certainly a WN fortress. With this deal they will control 90% of the gates at the airport, and with their gate utilization it's quite likely they will operate well over 90% of flights. Most other airlines' fortress hubs don't even come near these percentages.
 
CalTex
Posts: 184
Joined: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:23 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:13 am

Quoting mcg (Reply 55):

Is Love Field a fortress hub?

Without a doubt. In 2014, WN carried 90% of all DAL passengers in 2014, which is similar to the concentrations at CLT (over 90%) and MDW (91%) and higher than DFW (85%), ATL (75%), MSP (75%), IAH (65%), and EWR (68%).
 
usflyguy
Posts: 1757
Joined: Thu Jan 12, 2012 7:29 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:29 am

21% ROIC for 2014, I think WN is going to be doing some growing this year.
My post is my ideas and my opinions only, I do not represent the ideas or opinions of anyone else or company.
 
klwright69
Posts: 2712
Joined: Mon Jan 17, 2000 4:22 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:23 am

Is it just a rumor or is it official as well that LUV will give back their EWR assets to UA?

I am sure UA made out quite handsomely with this deal.

Wow what a turn of events. Not along time ago UA was going to start 12x daily flights to IAH from DAL to give DL the boot and flex their muscles.

This is like the airline version of Game of Thrones, with UA sitting on the "Iron Throne" of their two gates at DAL, that everyone seemed to want. In the end UA said let's milk this for top dollar.

But will DL be forced out or will it sublease some space from LUV?

It is a bit sad UA is going to close the station entirely however, but as I said, they must have gotten an offer too good to refuse.

[Edited 2015-01-30 23:29:08]
 
COflyerBOS
Posts: 176
Joined: Wed Jun 06, 2007 7:04 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:18 am

Absolute head scratcher that UA is giving up on Love Field. Love Field is way more convenient to downtown and uptown Dallas and IAH is located adjacent to so many sprawling corporate campuses, including ExxonMobil's new 10,000+ person mega campus. Color me baffled.

Add Love to the growing list of Texas airports CO/UA has dumped (Texarkana, Beaumont, Victoria, Del Rio, San Angelo, Abilene, Waco...)
 
User avatar
STT757
Posts: 14146
Joined: Tue Mar 28, 2000 1:14 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:33 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 16):
WN is also Rumored to be returning 16 Slots/ 8 flights to UA in EWR As part of the DAL deal.

WN has 18 daily flights from EWR:

MDW 6, HOU 3, BNA 2, STL 2, DEN 2, AUS 1, MSY 1, PHX 1

If they gave back 16 slots, 8 daily flights, to UA that gives them 10. Definitely keep MDW, there's six right there. And another four from somplace, perhaps 2 BNA and 2 STL.

UA would be ecstatic if they could get WN off EWR-DEN and EWR-HOU.
Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
 
United1
Posts: 4186
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 1:40 pm

Quoting COflyerBOS (Reply 65):
Absolute head scratcher that UA is giving up on Love Field.

Its entirely possible that UA feels that the loss of revenue from operating the flights to DAL will be offset by sub-leasing the gates to WN and, if the rumor about WN returning some of the EWR slots to UA are true, whatever revenue they can generate by growing EWR.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
WaywardMemphian
Posts: 1501
Joined: Sat Dec 13, 2014 9:05 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:15 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 50):

I like those middle city through routes, I like calling them bunny hops.

Two I would love see is a STL-MEM-MSY and DAL-XNA STL

I think something like that introduces new cities to existing routes to gage demand. Those try out Memphis' shift to O&D that completely oppressed when it was a hub and a burgeoning market like XNA with major growth potential going forward.

[Edited 2015-01-31 06:18:25]
 
User avatar
OzarkD9S
Posts: 5717
Joined: Tue Oct 23, 2001 2:31 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:20 pm

Quoting LoneStarMike (Reply 49):


Even though Puerto Rico wouldn't be considered an international flight, it's not one of the 50 states or the District of Columbia.

I guess we'll see WN pushing for Puerto Rican Statehood next.  
Next up: STL DEN PSP DEN STL
 
MaverickM11
Posts: 18199
Joined: Thu Apr 06, 2000 1:59 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:23 pm

Quoting SANFan (Reply 59):
I'm just wondering if VX was also negotiating to try to get those 2 gates? I can't imagine they're real thrilled to see this happening.

VX has pulled a SFO and a DCA trip from DAL, so I'm guessing no.
I don't take responsibility at all
 
User avatar
jfklganyc
Posts: 6005
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2004 2:31 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:28 pm

The EWR angle is interesting, but makes perfect sense.

If not, why would UA give up Love gates? It would have to be a ridiculous amount of money.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10355
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 2:54 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Thread starter):
So Southwest will have control of 18 gates, and VX will have 2.
Quoting OzarkD9S (Reply 5):
Might as well rename Love Field to Greater Southwest.

That has always been my problem with the WA repeal, too little gates in general resulting in too many assigned to one carrier.
Numbers - one carrier has 10% of the gates we say that's pretty good, then you find out its 2 gates out of 20, the airport needs more gate.

So will WN now look to build connections or is there that much business in the region that DAL will be the focal transportation point of business activity.
 
User avatar
jetblastdubai
Posts: 1977
Joined: Sun Aug 18, 2013 10:23 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:17 pm

Quoting STT757 (Reply 58):
It would suck for EWR travelers to lose options, and for UA to tighten their grip on EWR

I'm curious as to why you think it's bad for UA to be able to tighten their grip at EWR with somewhere in the neighborhood of 60% of the traffic but DAL travelers losing options at an airport where WN controls far more isn't.

How many EWR routes does UA have competition on and how many routes out of DAL does WN have competition on?
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 3:33 pm

This is an evilly brilliant move pulled by UA that managed to achieve multiple objectives

1. Monetize DAL assets while fitting in the E145 drawdown

2. Kick DL out and piss them off

3. Strengthen WN further at DAL, which adds yield pressure to AA/DFW

4. Reduce WN's ability to deal with HOU/DEN/OAK/MDW

5. Continue to give VX false hope at DAL so they lack ability to focus back at SFO/LAX
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4352
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:17 pm

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 46):
I don't see why Southwest should have to do anything for Delta

If Delta wins a lawsuit against the repeal agreement, Southwest risks losing their quasi-monopoly over the airport, especially since, unlike the aviation department, city hall is more interested in competition than in kissing the Luv ring.

I am the first to admit it's a big if, but businesses hate uncertainty and are prepared to pay a cost to remove it. All pretense aside, Southwest is first and foremost a business like any other.
 
a380787
Posts: 4573
Joined: Tue Jul 09, 2013 4:38 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:22 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 75):

The city hall is interested in LOW COST competition. DL is trying to use their lawyers to bully city of Dallas to surrender to their ransom demands. It won't work.
 
strfyr51
Posts: 5033
Joined: Tue Apr 10, 2012 5:04 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:41 pm

Quoting United1 (Reply 67):

I don't see any perceived loss of revenue as we had no flights into DAL and we have Tons to DFW. I suspect the Gates were a thorn in WN's side as giving up gates and slots in EWR was to UA.
If the gates and the slots in EWR return to UA as it was then we can ALWAYS go bigger into DFW but WN Can't go bigger into EWR. Strange Tactic, But if it's Value? I guess it worked..
 
sccutler
Posts: 5839
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2000 12:16 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:42 pm

I rather suspect that, while the City of Dallas will not do anything which (on its face) squashes competition, one need only note how many Boeing 737 aircraft are considered domiciled, for property tax purposes, in Dallas. It is not trivial!
...three miles from BRONS, clear for the ILS one five approach...
 
User avatar
Polot
Posts: 10717
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 3:01 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:44 pm

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 75):
If Delta wins a lawsuit against the repeal agreement, Southwest risks losing their quasi-monopoly over the airport, especially since, unlike the aviation department, city hall is more interested in competition than in kissing the Luv ring.

I'm sure they would be more than happy if DL won, because that means WN could build more gates too  

Southwest is always going to be by far the dominate carrier at DAL, and have a quasi-monopoly there. Just like Dl at ATL/DTW, AA at CLT/DFW, UA at IAH/EWR etc.
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:46 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 76):
DL is trying to use their lawyers to bully city of Dallas to surrender to their ransom demands. It won't work.

As far as I can determine, DL has done nothing, yet.........so, it interests me in your statement about what DL IS doing. A little clairvoyant, wouldn't you say?

The thing that gets me in all this is the behavior of the Dallas city gov't. On one hand they're promising DL to do whatever they can to help DL remain at DL and two doors down the hall, is the same city gov't., trying to boot DL out. Even for a gov't., city, state or federal, very odd behavior.

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 60):
I wonder if this will ultimately squeeze VX out of DAL and back over to DFW? I then think that WN could end up with 19 of the 20 gates and DL takes the last one over eventually.

Why could this squeeze VX out? Wasn't the service and gates awarded to VX by the feds?
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
DDR
Posts: 1732
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2013 11:09 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:47 pm

I honestly don't understand the uproar over the fact that WN will control most of the gates. This is the case at all airline hubs. Why is it different here? I find myself supporting WN in this situation simply because they have stuck with DAL while others have come and gone and come and gone again.

Dallas Love Field is WN. Always has been since DFW opened up.

I'm just surprised that AA agreed to get out.
 
rtalk25
Posts: 631
Joined: Wed Sep 17, 2014 4:14 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:05 pm

Quoting jetblastdubai (Reply 73):
I'm curious as to why you think it's bad for UA to be able to tighten their grip at EWR with somewhere in the neighborhood of 60% of the traffic but DAL travelers losing options at an airport where WN controls far more isn't.

How many EWR routes does UA have competition on and how many routes out of DAL does WN have competition on?

I think he means just UA having more grip of EWR in general and potential loss of competition at EWR. It's anyways uncomfirmed if WN has traded any of it's EWR slot pairs.

Quoting DDR (Reply 81):
I'm just surprised that AA agreed to get out.

It was a condition for the merger to get approved. US also agreed to give up more DCA slot pairs than AA was even bringing to the combined US/AA. That didn't make sense to me, but in order to get the approval for the entire merger (first time rejected), it ceded on these conditions.

[Edited 2015-01-31 09:14:39]
 
airliner371
Topic Author
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:06 pm

Quoting klwright69 (Reply 64):
Is it just a rumor or is it official as well that LUV will give back their EWR assets to UA?

At this point it is just a rumor.

Quoting blueflyer (Reply 75):
If Delta wins a lawsuit against the repeal agreement, Southwest risks losing their quasi-monopoly over the airport, especially since, unlike the aviation department, city hall is more interested in competition than in kissing the Luv ring.

I am the first to admit it's a big if, but businesses hate uncertainty and are prepared to pay a cost to remove it. All pretense aside, Southwest is first and foremost a business like any other.

WN will always have a quasi-monopoly at DAL. If DL wins at repealing the entire amendment, they aren't going to be the ones to build more gates, WN is. And the city is always going to back WN. So yeah, the city would probably give 2 gates to DL and maybe 2 common use but they are going to still give WN most of the gates. So maybe the percentage of gates WN has goes down a little but it will still be up in the 70+% range.
 
User avatar
par13del
Posts: 10355
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2005 9:14 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:22 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 80):
The thing that gets me in all this is the behavior of the Dallas city gov't.

Not strange at all, they agreed to box themselves in during the negotiations on the repeal compromise, they could have stayed on the sideline and let WN take the fight all the way to full repeal, it may have taken a bit longer but they may have ended up with an airport with much less restrictions, indeed the major one I could see would have been traffic limitations by the FAA on airspace movements in relation to DFW.
So as politicians they are doing the only thing that they can do, talk out of both sides.......... 
Quoting DDR (Reply 81):
I honestly don't understand the uproar over the fact that WN will control most of the gates. This is the case at all airline hubs. Why is it different here?

The uproar may have something to do with the fact that due to the WA, most airlines could not use DAL effectively, WN accepted the onerous conditions and thrived, and now that the airport is supposed to be open, folks now wonder why they cannot use.
It all depends on which side of the troika you reside, WN, AA or the rest of the country.
 
User avatar
mayor
Posts: 6218
Joined: Sun Mar 09, 2008 3:58 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:22 pm

Quoting DDR (Reply 81):
Dallas Love Field is WN. Always has been since DFW opened up.

As I recall, WN didn't want to move. Now, I may be incorrect, but I thought the other carriers were more or less forced to move to DFW when it opened.
"A committee is a group of the unprepared, appointed by the unwilling, to do the unnecessary"----Fred Allen
 
airliner371
Topic Author
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 5:26 pm

Quoting mayor (Reply 85):
Now, I may be incorrect, but I thought the other carriers were more or less forced to move to DFW when it opened.

They weren't forced to, but they all agreed to move.
 
wnflyguy
Posts: 2002
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 7:58 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:21 pm

Today is a different Day and the likelihood of DAL gates and EWR slots trade agreement is losing steam.
I still think for myself it would make sense.
But unfortunately I'm getting more feed back from friends it's looking like it's not in the Deal.

My personal opinion is It would make total since.
Still keep the EWR market with a smaller foot print. In turn you gain of access to more gates and flights at DAL and Lose competition on the DAL-HOU market share.
8 flights cut from a struggling EWR market and Redeploy those Aircraft into new strengths of productive flights.
Now with the Remaining Productive EWR flights upgrade to more 737-800 flying increasing review without the need for more slots.

I would service 4 MDW, 2 DEN, 2 HOU, 1 PHX and 1 DAL or LAS ...

I believe WN having the first wave of Employee Rallies a.k.a message to the field next week so maybe some more announcements will becoming in response to the gate additions in DAL and added flights in April.

Again exciting Times at WN these days.

Congratulations.


Flyguy....
My Wings are clipped just another Retired Airline person. The Ultimate Armchair out of the loop airline industry geek. Aloha Mr Hand!
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2544
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 6:42 pm

My thoughts (as already posted on FB): "While I LUV that the Wright Amendment is history (mostly), I would LUV to see more variety at the newly emancipated in-town airport."
Great Lakes, great life.
 
airliner371
Topic Author
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:03 pm

Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 87):

Today is a different Day and the likelihood of DAL gates and EWR slots trade agreement is losing steam.
I still think for myself it would make sense.
But unfortunately I'm getting more feed back from friends it's looking like it's not in the Deal.

Good.  
Quoting wnflyguy (Reply 87):
My personal opinion is It would make total since.
Still keep the EWR market with a smaller foot print. In turn you gain of access to more gates and flights at DAL and Lose competition on the DAL-HOU market share.
8 flights cut from a struggling EWR market and Redeploy those Aircraft into new strengths of productive flights.
Now with the Remaining Productive EWR flights upgrade to more 737-800 flying increasing review without the need for more slots.

But why should they give up a semi-valuable asset when they have the money to just pay for the two gates on their own?
 
United1
Posts: 4186
Joined: Wed Oct 08, 2003 9:21 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 7:39 pm

Quoting strfyr51 (Reply 77):
I don't see any perceived loss of revenue as we had no flights into DAL and we have Tons to DFW. I suspect the Gates were a thorn in WN's side as giving up gates and slots in EWR was to UA.

....UA had (well still technically has) flights from IAH-DAL while those are not mainline flights I don't believe that route was flown at risk by UAX. Not sure why you say that there would be no loss of revenue...

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 89):
But why should they give up a semi-valuable asset when they have the money to just pay for the two gates on their own?

UA holds the lease on the two gates at DAL (and still will as they are simply subleased to WN) sometimes money isn't all that a business looks for during negotiations. UA also isn't hurting for cash...perhaps UA felt that it wanted something besides case.
I know the voices in my head aren't real but sometimes their ideas are just awesome!!!
 
BooDog
Posts: 149
Joined: Fri Nov 09, 2007 1:44 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:30 pm

Quoting a380787 (Reply 74):
This is an evilly brilliant move pulled by UA that managed to achieve multiple objectives

1. Monetize DAL assets while fitting in the E145 drawdown

2. Kick DL out and piss them off

3. Strengthen WN further at DAL, which adds yield pressure to AA/DFW

4. Reduce WN's ability to deal with HOU/DEN/OAK/MDW

5. Continue to give VX false hope at DAL so they lack ability to focus back at SFO/LAX

I think you may have nailed it. Each positive for UA is very small, but the positives are many.
B1B - best looking aircraft ever.
 
bjorn14
Posts: 3595
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:11 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sat Jan 31, 2015 10:40 pm

Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 33):
Some report Memphis is getting 2x daily service starting in April
Quoting WaywardMemphian (Reply 35):
With MEM getting two nonstop a day, wonder what the effect on LIT and it's three Love Field Flights

I wonder if the Betty Bus survives.

Quoting SWADawg (Reply 60):
I wonder if this will ultimately squeeze VX out of DAL and back over to DFW?
Quoting par13del (Reply 72):
Numbers - one carrier has 10% of the gates we say that's pretty good, then you find out its 2 gates out of 20, the airport needs more gate.

It was incredibly stupid of the Pols to teardown the old 5-gate Legend terminal now they are permanently married to WN.
"I want to know the voice of God the rest is just details" --A. Einstein
 
airliner371
Topic Author
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:04 am

More on how this affects Delta...
Quote:
Southwest Airlines has confirmed that it will continue the current accommodation–five gate slots, including an overnight one–that United made for Delta, which runs through July 6. Meanwhile, Delta said that it is continuing to work with all parties to gain a permanent spot at Love Field.
Quote:
Meanwhile, Delta is working with all of the parties at Love Field to gain a permanent spot at the airport, but if it is unable to, it will have to stop flying in and out of Love Field this July.
http://airwaysnews.com/blog/2015/01/...ld-soap-opera-appears-to-near-end/

So due to the current contract United made with Delta, Southwest will have to let Delta operate 5 flights until July at which point if a new agreement is not reached, Delta will be forced to leave the airport.

[Edited 2015-01-31 16:05:35]
 
blueflyer
Posts: 4352
Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2006 4:17 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:16 am

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 83):
So yeah, the city would probably give 2 gates to DL and maybe 2 common use but they are going to still give WN most of the gates. So maybe the percentage of gates WN has goes down a little but it will still be up in the 70+% range.

There's no doubt that, barring some unforeseeable event, Southwest will retain the majority of the gates if the cap is removed or raised, but it is equally highly unlikely that their domination will continue to be as high as it is. New gates will be offered on a preferential or common use basis to anybody-but-Southwest first.
 
User avatar
knope2001
Posts: 3029
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2005 5:54 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:12 am

So am I thinking right that there will be no service between IAH and DAL? That route goes back about years or so if I'm not mistaken.

Dallas-Houston traffic has really suffered in the post-9/11 world, especially considering how much the two metro areas have grown and how strong the Texas economy has been.

Average one-way local passengers between Dallas and Houston (each way)

2001 Q1

2624 total
1519 DAL-HOU
0558 DFW-IAH
0406 DAL-IAH
0142 DFW-HOU

2014 Q1
1536 total
1034 DAL-HOU
0310 DFW-IAH
0074 DAL-IAH
0119 DFW-HOU

Change
-41.5% total
-32.0% DAL-HOU
-44.4% DFW-IAH
-16.0% DFW-HOU
-81.8% DAL-IAH

Considering how large and growing the metro areas are, the hubs at all four airports, the history and the fact that shorter-haul air travel still does about as well in Texas as anywhere, it's strange to think of no flights between DAL and IAH.

[Edited 2015-01-31 17:29:43]
 
AS739BSI
Posts: 147
Joined: Mon Jan 30, 2012 11:35 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:23 am

I think the gate cap is just ridiculous IMHO. HOU was allowed to exist still and IAH is doing mighty fine. That way for those who want to fly into DAL which is slightly closer to DT Dallas, they can do so. Let the market do the work instead of putting an artificial cap on.
 
GSPSPOT
Posts: 2544
Joined: Thu Sep 11, 2003 1:44 am

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:50 am

Quoting AS739BSI (Reply 96):
Let the market do the work instead of putting an artificial cap on.

Because that would actually make sense. Sadly has no place in this mess I'm afraid.
Great Lakes, great life.
 
User avatar
lightsaber
Moderator
Posts: 20283
Joined: Wed Jan 19, 2005 10:55 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:01 am

When does DL's sublease expire? I assume with the OP timeline?

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 32):
WN is operating 153 flights out of DAL. That is 9.5 flights per gate. How many more flights do you want them to have for 16 gates?

They should be at ten per gate.  
So this addition is of little surprise.

Quoting airliner371 (Reply 56):
There are 153 Southwest flights each day. They currently control 16 of the 20 gates, that will now increase to 18. Call it what you will, focus city, hub, fortress hub or base, in the end, a name is just a name. You need to look at flight levels and seats among other things to make your own judgment.

I think fortress hub is appropriate. Albeit not a full Fortress hub due to AA over at DFW. For a true Fortress hub is able to charge quite premium fares due to the near monopoly standing. This is interesting.

Quoting a380787 (Reply 74):
Kick DL out and piss them off

This is interesting. But DL will adapt at DFW if they must.

Lightsaber
Winter is coming.
 
airliner371
Topic Author
Posts: 2404
Joined: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:53 pm

RE: Southwest Obtains 2 More Gates At DAL

Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:02 am

Quoting lightsaber (Reply 98):
When does DL's sublease expire? I assume with the OP timeline?

It was only a 6 month sub lease that started earlier in January. So it expires in June.

Popular Searches On Airliners.net

Top Photos of Last:   24 Hours  •  48 Hours  •  7 Days  •  30 Days  •  180 Days  •  365 Days  •  All Time

Military Aircraft Every type from fighters to helicopters from air forces around the globe

Classic Airliners Props and jets from the good old days

Flight Decks Views from inside the cockpit

Aircraft Cabins Passenger cabin shots showing seat arrangements as well as cargo aircraft interior

Cargo Aircraft Pictures of great freighter aircraft

Government Aircraft Aircraft flying government officials

Helicopters Our large helicopter section. Both military and civil versions

Blimps / Airships Everything from the Goodyear blimp to the Zeppelin

Night Photos Beautiful shots taken while the sun is below the horizon

Accidents Accident, incident and crash related photos

Air to Air Photos taken by airborne photographers of airborne aircraft

Special Paint Schemes Aircraft painted in beautiful and original liveries

Airport Overviews Airport overviews from the air or ground

Tails and Winglets Tail and Winglet closeups with beautiful airline logos