New Zealand Aviation Thread 153

PA515 · Mon Feb 09, 2015 7:06 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 99):

The reason for only 6 of the 77E aircraft being in operation is that 2 of them are being upgraded at the same time in order to have the refit completed by the end of December.

Thanks NZ1.
That means it's taking much more than the anticipated six weeks per aircraft. 11th Feb to 02 Dec is 42 weeks which would be seven weeks for each of the remaining six aircraft, and even that's not enough.

How can two be upgraded at the same time by the AKL team, or will at least one be done overseas?

PA515

[Edited 2015-02-08 23:07:19]

Nouflyer · Mon Feb 09, 2015 8:51 am

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 91):
Quoting Nouflyer (Reply 50):
You have to carry an awful lot of fuel just to transport the fuel on such a ULH flight.

Yes, but that is the case on AKL-LAX too.

Sure.

But AKL-LAX is 10,467 km.

Whereas SYD-DXB is 12,039 km.

That is an incredibly long flight, requiring lots of fuel to carry the fuel.

NZ1 · Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:54 am

Quoting PA515 (Reply 100):

No, both aircraft will be done in AKL, though they are staggered. The last one starts around mid way through the second to last one.

NZ1

sunrisevalley · Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:32 pm

Quoting PA515 (Reply 90):
has delivery dates for ZK-NZC of 03 Aug 2015, ZK-NZD of 01 Jul 2015 and ZK-NZH of 28 Oct 2015. So, NZD before NZC, and NZH at the end of October.

Correct me if I am wrong but the fourth 789 only shows up in the schedule AKL-NRT on August 24th and AKL- PVG on August 31st. Or does the fifth frame figure in there somewhere?

PA515 · Mon Feb 09, 2015 5:22 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 103):
Correct me if I am wrong but the fourth 789 only shows up in the schedule AKL-NRT on August 24th and AKL- PVG on August 31st. Or does the fifth frame figure in there somewhere?

A 4th 789 is not in use until late Aug. AKL-PER is ex Tue until 01 Sep, so the Tue AKL-NRT changes to a 789 earlier. The Wed and Thu 763's change to a 789 in the last week of Aug, so AKL-NRT is a Daily 789 from Thu 27 Aug. The Fri and Sun AKL-PVG 77E's change to a 789 in the last week of Aug, so AKL-PVG is a Daily 789 from Sun 30 Aug.

A 5th 789 is not in use until the Sep/Oct Sun NZ4/NZ3's. There must be other 789 services from mid to late July yet to be announced that don't include 1545 Sun to 0600 Tue between 27 Sep and 18 Oct. AKL-HNL Tue, Thu, Sat would fit, but AKL-HNL is Mon, Tue, Thu, Sat. The Mon flight could be cancelled, 4 x 763 = 3 x 789, or changed to a Wed or Fri.

The 6th 789 available from about mid November is not showing up at all so far.

PA515

mariner · Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:46 pm

Quoting mariner (Reply 88):
The other mild puzzle is that the third route Air NZ dropped - AKL-Kaitaia - doesn't seem to have a replacement airline yet, although four small airlines put their hands up.

Puzzle solved - Great Barrier Airlines will be taking over AKL-Kaitaia:

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/smal...ine-comes-kaitaia-s-rescue-6231800

"Small Kiwi airline comes to Kaitaia's rescue

A small New Zealand airline is coming to the rescue of residents in the Northland town of Kaitaia after Air New Zealand cut its services.

Great Barrier Airlines says it will operate daily flights between Kaitaia and Auckland after entering into an agreement with Far North Holdings, which operates Kaitaia Airport.

A small fleet of 12-seater Cessna planes will fly to and from the town three times a day on weekdays and twice a day on the weekend."

I think it's been an interesting shake up of the small fry. It gives them some room to grow and takes some small burden off Air NZ. I wonder if there will be any more.

mariner

Unclekoru · Thu Feb 12, 2015 3:22 am

Quoting mariner (Reply 105):
Quoting mariner (Reply 88):
The other mild puzzle is that the third route Air NZ dropped - AKL-Kaitaia - doesn't seem to have a replacement airline yet, although four small airlines put their hands up.

Puzzle solved - Great Barrier Airlines will be taking over AKL-Kaitaia:

http://tvnz.co.nz/national-news/smal...ine-comes-kaitaia-s-rescue-6231800

"Small Kiwi airline comes to Kaitaia's rescue

A small New Zealand airline is coming to the rescue of residents in the Northland town of Kaitaia after Air New Zealand cut its services.

Great Barrier Airlines says it will operate daily flights between Kaitaia and Auckland after entering into an agreement with Far North Holdings, which operates Kaitaia Airport.

A small fleet of 12-seater Cessna planes will fly to and from the town three times a day on weekdays and twice a day on the weekend."

I think it's been an interesting shake up of the small fry. It gives them some room to grow and takes some small burden off Air NZ. I wonder if there will be any more.

I wonder how much of Kaitaia's traffic is going to defect to KeriKeri? Hopefully they manage to milk enough traffic out of Kaitaia to make a go of it. Does anyone have any idea where the C208 is coming from?

mariner · Thu Feb 12, 2015 4:29 am

Quoting Unclekoru (Reply 106):
I wonder how much of Kaitaia's traffic is going to defect to KeriKeri?

Some, perhaps, it isn't the longest drive. I suppose it could also work in reverse if the timings are preferable, at least for some.

But the Kaitaia folk yelled blue bloody murder when Air NZ cancelled - "country folk betrayed" - so if they want to keep the new service it's the old rule: use it or lose it.

All any airline can do is offer.

mariner

zkeoj · Thu Feb 12, 2015 5:12 am

Hi All

I have a couple of questions regarding registrations:

a) Do you know which B733's nose is displayed at Te Papa?
b) On the 4th I saw an Islander without rego, colour was white, with red and blue stripes

Any help would be much appreciated!
Cheers
micha

NZ1 · Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:26 am

Quoting ZKEOJ (Reply 108):

The nose outside Te Papa is ex ZK-NGK. The rest of the aircraft is still sitting in CHC awaiting a decision on it's future.

NZ1

zkeoj · Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:28 am

Quoting NZ1 (Reply 109):
The nose outside Te Papa is ex ZK-NGK. The rest of the aircraft is still sitting in CHC awaiting a decision on it's future.

NZ1

Great! Many thanks for your help - as always, NZ1!

Cheers
micha

haggis73 · Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:35 am

Quoting ZKEOJ (Reply 108):

BN2 was ZK-EVO, currently being flown by Fly My Sky. Not sure if it's leased or has been purchased.

zkeoj · Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:35 am

Quoting ZKEOJ (Reply 108):
b) On the 4th I saw an Islander without rego, colour was white, with red and blue stripes

Here is a (poor quality) photo of it:

http://www.airport-data.com/airport/photo/037013.html

Cheers
micha

zkeoj · Thu Feb 12, 2015 9:37 am

Quoting haggis73 (Reply 111):
BN2 was ZK-EVO, currently being flown by Fly My Sky. Not sure if it's leased or has been purchased.

our messages have just overlapped - moderators, feel free to delete mine with the link.

haggis: Many many thanks - much appreciated!

Cheers
micha

NZ107 · Sun Feb 15, 2015 10:23 am

Heads up WLG spotters.. Abu Dhabi Amiri 788 is heading to WLG sometime this week.. Probably in time for the UAE Cricket World Cup game in NSN on Thursday.

[Edited 2015-02-15 02:24:58]

nascarnut · Mon Feb 16, 2015 6:54 pm

At this stage it appears last scheduled 737 service is on 6th Sep. All main trunk flights appear to be A320's from 7th Sep.

kiwiandrew · Mon Feb 16, 2015 11:26 pm

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 115):

At this stage it appears last scheduled 737 service is on 6th Sep. All main trunk flights appear to be A320's from 7th Sep.

I am pretty sure the first ever NAC 737 service in 1968 was sometime in September ( does anyone know the exact date? ) . Sad that they will be gone from the fleet 3 years shy of hitting the 50th anniversary mark.

Unclekoru · Tue Feb 17, 2015 1:29 am

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 116):
Quoting nascarnut (Reply 115):

At this stage it appears last scheduled 737 service is on 6th Sep. All main trunk flights appear to be A320's from 7th Sep.

I am pretty sure the first ever NAC 737 service in 1968 was sometime in September ( does anyone know the exact date? ) . Sad that they will be gone from the fleet 3 years shy of hitting the 50th anniversary mark.

14 October 1968, the first Southbound flight being NZ421 AKL-WLG-CHC-DUD operated by ZK-NAD and the first North bound flight flown by ZK-NAC presumably also between DUD-CHC-WLG-AKL (although I wonder if this one actually started in CHC - the book doesn't elaborate on the exact routing of the North bound service). Source: The illustrated history of NZNAC 1947-1978 by Richard Waugh et al.

[Edited 2015-02-16 17:30:16]

Sylus · Wed Feb 18, 2015 6:30 am

With CZ gradually expanding operations at AKL (from CAN) how long will it be until they add a second airport in New Zealand? Presumably CHC or WLG? If one of these routes did eventually start up, could it be viable in the long term (or even lucrative)?

NZ107 · Wed Feb 18, 2015 8:40 am

Quoting Sylus (Reply 118):

Well they're already doing Chinese New Year flights to CHC.. Who knows if/when they'll start services year round there. I imagine WLG is still not ready for economical payloads to Asia.

ZaphodHarkonnen · Wed Feb 18, 2015 10:35 am

I'm sure a couple of you lot noticed one of the Aussie C-17s was in Welly the other day to deliver some stone for the war memorial they're building. It also appears that several government ministers took the chance to take a look at it and have a quick hop to Woodburne.

http://wellington.scoop.co.nz/?p=75489

At the invitation of the Australian Defence Force, Defence Minister Gerry Brownlee and members of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Select Committee will visit the aircraft before departing for a return flight to the New Zealand Air Force base at Woodbourne, where they will view the C-130 Hercules restoration programme.

“This is a timely opportunity, and I appreciate the Australian Air Force giving us a chance to learn more about and experience the C17,” Mr Brownlee says.

The Ministry of Defence is in the process of receiving price and availability information on the C17 from the United States Government as part of its long term review of airlift capability.

“Consideration of New Zealand’s continuing engagement in the Antarctic, and our ability to respond to natural disasters and provide humanitarian aid in the Pacific, means options for future airlift capability need to be explored,” Mr Brownlee says.

“The need for replacement airlift capability has been long anticipated and is foreshadowed in the Defence Mid Point Rebalancing Review

Kiwirob · Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:05 am

C17 for NZ is a very long shot IMO, I think we'll eventually end up with A400's.

aerorobnz · Wed Feb 18, 2015 11:41 pm

Quoting Sylus (Reply 118):
With CZ gradually expanding operations at AKL (from CAN)

It is important to note, that while CZ has been double daily over the summer with 787/77W metal, like TG/KE/CX and others the frequencies drop off to 10 a week (787s only) again with the next schedule. This tells me several things
- the route is currently sustainable as a daily service with a 777 or 10 a week with the smaller 788 to maximise the marketable direct connections in CAN

- the route (like most to AKL) shows a very real fluctuation between high/low season particularly in line with the demands of the Students, Tour groups, Filipino and Indian markets which CZ has been pulling effectively with bargain airfares, as well as the seasonal cargo demands which require more loadlugging ability than just a 788. These markets for established airlines like SQ/MH/KE have also shown an 'all or nothing' market that makes it more effective to adjust capacity and frequency to meet highest demand for outbound (Nov-Mid Jan) and inbound (DEC-FEB) while the northern hemisphere markets slacken in their demand in some markets and free up spare metal.

I don't expect it will be best practise for CZ to fly year round double daily or CHC year round for a few years yet.

DavidByrne · Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:08 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 122):
I don't expect it will be best practise for CZ to fly year round double daily or CHC year round for a few years yet.

But best practice or not, they've announced double-daily year round, so they're clearly looking to more than just the China market. Online connections to Europe are what they're aiming for, I assume.

aerorobnz · Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:41 am

Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 123):
But best practice or not, they've announced double-daily year round

when I searched the schedule in the GDS they are back to 10 a week in the schedule after March.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/...outhern-boosts-auckland-frequency/

Motorhussy · Thu Feb 19, 2015 1:57 am

Have to say, was very impressed just now with how quiet this Gulf state 788 was leaving WLG… makes NZ's A320's sound noisy and the remaining 733's sound like banshees.

Apologies for image quality, quickly snapped with iPhone.

Regards
MH

ZKOJH · Thu Feb 19, 2015 2:01 am

And the next " Night Rider town" will be....... "Palmerston North"

Air New Zealand has confirmed it will operate its next $29 Night Rider service between Palmerston North and Auckland.

From March 20 to April 16 every seat on an additional late night service will be priced at $29 one way or $39 for a seat and a bag. That period includes the Easter long weekend.

A 68-seat ATR turboprop aircraft will operate this service five days a week with flights scheduled to depart Auckland at 9.00pm Thursday to Monday with the return leg departing from Palmerston North at 10.30pm.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/air-new-ze...ticle.cfm?o_id=5&objectid=11403909

DavidByrne · Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:34 am

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 124):
Quoting DavidByrne (Reply 123):
But best practice or not, they've announced double-daily year round

when I searched the schedule in the GDS they are back to 10 a week in the schedule after March.
http://www.routesonline.com/news/29/...outhern-boosts-auckland-frequency/

Announced just yesterday:

Quote:
China Southern Airlines has committed to a year-round double-daily service between Guangzhou and Auckland following a successful summer season trial.

In October, China Southern increased its services on the Auckland to Guangzhou route from 10 to 14 flights a week until March.

From August 1, the airline will fly the route twice daily all year round using Boeing 787.

This was part of the story in Scoop, but it was also reported in the Herald.

keen2fly · Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:25 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 126):

YES!! I just moved to Palmerston North and spent $168 to fly here 1-way. So I hope to take advantage of these fares.

Zkpilot · Thu Feb 19, 2015 6:26 pm

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 126):
A 68-seat ATR turboprop aircraft will operate this service five days a week with flights scheduled to depart Auckland at 9.00pm Thursday to Monday with the return leg departing from Palmerston North at 10.30pm.

i thought the whole point of night rider was to reposition the aircraft to another airport for the next morning and get some revenue in the process?

NZ107 · Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:37 pm

Quoting Zkpilot (Reply 129):

The original point of the night rider was to fill up the cabin as they had a cargo contract which seemed to basically pay for the flight. It moved two planes so it wasn't exactly a repositioning.

777ER · Fri Feb 20, 2015 2:33 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 130):

But the original Night Rider went daily in both directions also each night between AKL-WLG and AKL-CHC

ZKOJH · Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:29 am

"Air New Zealand nixes Boeing 787 'retrojet' livery"

Air New Zealand says it has no plans to dress a Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner in 'retro' livery as part of the airline's 75th anniversary celebrations this year.

The Kiwi carrier is among the world's most prolific airplane repainters, with various AirNZ jets dressed up for The Hobbit movie franchise, the country's All Blacks rugby team plus an eye-catching black livery for the airline's first Boeing 787-9.

http://www.ausbt.com.au/air-new-zeal...d-nixes-boeing-787-retrojet-livery

ZKOJH · Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:33 am

"Aussie turbulence for Air NZ"

Virgin’s A$47.8m loss will hit airline’s bottom line

Virgin Australia's first half loss will hurt Air New Zealand's interim profit.

Air New Zealand has a 25.9 per cent stake in the Australian airline and its accounts will reflect that share of the A$47.8 million first-half statutory after-tax loss suffered by Virgin.

Despite the impact from Virgin, Air New Zealand is on course to improve on last year's first-half profit of $140 million.

Craigs Investment Partners analyst Chris Byrne said Air New Zealand now had to account for the loss because of its level of control and chief executive Christopher Luxon's appointment to the Virgin board last year.

"There's a whole lot of accounting rules around what is control. They had been borderline and they said because they weren't on the board they were just an investor and had no control," Byrne said.

Virgin did not provide specific guidance for the full year, saying only that it expected an improvement on the same period last year and forecasting a A$50 million benefit from lower fuel prices, up from $3 million in the first half.

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/air-new-ze...ticle.cfm?o_id=5&objectid=11404817

kiwiandrew · Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:44 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 132):

"Air New Zealand nixes Boeing 787 'retrojet' livery"

Disappointing ... the 1965-1973 livery would have looked amazing.

wstakl · Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:24 am

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 132):

......saving up for the next cheesy safety video are they?

ZKOJH · Fri Feb 20, 2015 4:35 am

"Air New Zealand reports Jan-2015 traffic"

Air New Zealand pax numbers up 3% to 1.1m in Jan-2015, group-wide yields up

Passenger numbers: 1.1 million, +3.1% year-on-year;
Short-haul: 918,000, +1.5%;
Domestic: 624,000, +0.8%;
Tasman/Pacific: 294,000, +3.0%;
Long-haul: 153,000, +14.1%;
Asia/Japan/UK: 59,000, +36.6%;
North America/UK: 94,000, +3.4%;

http://centreforaviation.com/news/ai...n-2015-group-wide-yields-up-419615

http://centreforaviation.com/files/analysis/210509/Jan2015.pdf

777ER · Fri Feb 20, 2015 11:18 pm

Quoting ZKOJH (Reply 132):

Very surprised NZ isn't bringing a retro jet to the fleet livery line up. Maybe an A320 in NAC colours?

Jetstar315 · Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:33 am

Sad about no retro scheme for a 787-9!

Quoting NZ spokesperson Jodi Williams: "But we are right in the throes of our brand new livery, the black and white fern, and so we are already committed to ensuring that we upgrade our existing aircraft in the new paint scheme"

I don't follow her logic - surely a retro scheme would be painted in the US before delivery to NZ if a retro scheme had really been on the agenda!!

aerorobnz · Sat Feb 21, 2015 10:35 am

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 138):
I don't follow her logic - surely a retro scheme would be painted in the US before delivery to NZ if a retro scheme had really been on the agenda!!

Exactly. They just don't want to.

sunrisevalley · Sat Feb 21, 2015 11:28 am

Quoting Jetstar315 (Reply 138):
"But we are right in the throes of our brand new livery, the black and white fern, and so we are already committed to ensuring that we upgrade our existing aircraft in the new paint scheme"

Their liveries are already a dogs breakfast with bits of this and that . Why add to it.

zkojq · Sat Feb 21, 2015 12:05 pm

ZK-OXG has been delivered. Currently making a turn to avoid Bangladeshi airspace. 24 Airbus in the fleet and 27 Boeings currently. Although the dates have likely changed, in older threads the following delivery and retirement dates have been mentioned:

ZK-OXH delivery 2015-03. Pictured here @ XFW http://flic.kr/p/qTsbVV (25 Airbus, 27 Boeings).
ZK-NGR retirement date has passed, so retirement is presumably imminent? (25 Airbus, 26 Boeings).
ZK-NGG retirement 2015-05. (25 Airbus, 25 Boeings).

So by the end of May, the number of Airbuses will finally equal the number of Boeings. This will be tipped back towards Boeing as more 787s are delivered mid year and Q3 and it is likely to stay that way as there are more 787s on order than 767s due for retirement. Is anyone able to make corrections to the dates I have above? All dates are what I've recorded from these threads.

Also, I have ZK-OXI's delivery in mid 2016 which seems to be quite a gap. Is that still the case?

Quoting aerorobnz (Reply 5):
What I can say is they are being standardised interiorwise with VAA. The first aircraft is not far away. from service entry.

ZK-PBA (which is now VH-VOO) has been exclusively operating in Australia since its refit, so I guess that answers my question.

Quoting gasman (Reply 95):

I wonder what the next widebody for NZ will be?

My fingers are crossed unbelievably tightly for the A350.

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 121):

C17 for NZ is a very long shot IMO, I think we'll eventually end up with A400's.

I can't imagine the C17 winning an RFP. But the govt probably could go and arbitrarily buy a few of the 'white tails' if they felt that Boeing was offering them a good enough deal. That wouldn't surprise me too much.

Quoting kiwiandrew (Reply 134):
Disappointing ...

Quoting 777ER (Reply 137):
Maybe an A320 in NAC colours?

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 140):
Their liveries are already a dogs breakfast with bits of this and that

I actually like this. All the bits of this and that (OAB, OKQ, OKO, OKP, NZE) are a nice distraction from the new livery.

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 140):
Why add to it.

1) Free PR.
2) Because retrojets are awesome.

Quoting nascarnut (Reply 115):

At this stage it appears last scheduled 737 service is on 6th Sep.

What flight-number? When will we know if the airline is having a special retirement flight?

[Edited 2015-02-21 04:13:10]

sunrisevalley · Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:59 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 141):
I can't imagine the C17 winning an RFP. But the govt probably could go and arbitrarily buy a few of the 'white tails' if they felt that Boeing was offering them a good enough deal. That wouldn't surprise me too much.

I thought the C17 line was closed. Most likely source is from the USAF surplus frames.

Mr AirNZ · Sat Feb 21, 2015 7:41 pm

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 141):
Also, I have ZK-OXI's delivery in mid 2016 which seems to be quite a gap. Is that still the case?

OXI arrives in April. OXJ and OXK then arrive in the last quarter of the year.

Quoting ZKOJQ (Reply 141):
ZK-NGR retirement date has passed, so retirement is presumably imminent? (25 Airbus, 26 Boeings).

NGR goes end of March.

NZ107 · Sun Feb 22, 2015 9:26 am

Qantas is having a status match to QF Gold for NZ residents who have Gold equivalent or higher status on any other airline bar EK. Well worth it, or thinking about it!

http://qantasgold.qantas.com/

Gasman · Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:11 am

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 144):
Qantas is having a status match to QF Gold for NZ residents who have Gold equivalent or higher status on any other airline bar EK. Well worth it, or thinking about it!

Thought about it for 0.002 seconds before sprinting downstairs for my NZ Gold card.

Kiwirob · Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:27 am

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 142):

I thought the C17 line was closed. Most likely source is from the USAF surplus frames.

Boeing built 10 white tails. So far Canda has taken 1, Australia 2.

sunrisevalley · Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:33 pm

Quoting KiwiRob (Reply 146):
Boeing built 10 white tails. So far Canda has taken 1, Australia 2.

how many does Australia have?

Kaiarahi · Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:48 pm

Quoting sunrisevalley (Reply 147):

Currently 6. In November, 2014 they ordered 4 more.

Gasman · Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:35 pm

Quoting NZ107 (Reply 144):
Qantas is having a status match to QF Gold for NZ residents who have Gold equivalent or higher status on any other airline bar EK. Well worth it, or thinking about it!

This is really interesting. Maybe they've perceived there are disgruntled NZ frequent fliers out there who they particularly want to target?

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