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Sevensixtyseven
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Posts: 264
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 3:33 am

Hawaiian Airlines Senority Question

Tue Feb 03, 2015 2:19 am

I'm curious as to how the senority is decided for Hawaiian Airlines' routes. I would imagine the more senior pilots and FAs fly the international routes, but are interisland or mainland-US flights more senior than the other? There seem to be benefits to both systems, on one hand, with interisland, the planes and crews end up back in HNL every single night, so you're never spending a night away from home. On the other hand, with the Mainland-Hawaii routes, you would only need to fly one flight each day and that's it.

Also...on Saturday, I saw N590HA parked in PHX after the day's HA35 was already departed using N587HA. What gives?
I call the dusty desert my home. :)
 
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aloha73g
Posts: 1947
Joined: Mon Jul 07, 2003 6:30 pm

RE: Hawaiian Airlines Senority Question

Tue Feb 03, 2015 3:21 am

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Thread starter):
Also...on Saturday, I saw N590HA parked in PHX after the day's HA35 was already departed using N587HA. What gives?

HA 767s have contract maintenance done in PHX so there is often a plane there for a few days getting work done.

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Thread starter):
I'm curious as to how the senority is decided for Hawaiian Airlines' routes. I would imagine the more senior pilots and FAs fly the international routes, but are interisland or mainland-US flights more senior than the other? There seem to be benefits to both systems, on one hand, with interisland, the planes and crews end up back in HNL every single night, so you're never spending a night away from home. On the other hand, with the Mainland-Hawaii routes, you would only need to fly one flight each day and that's it.

Crews bid for their flights based on seniority. Some prefer long international routes and some like interisland. Generally, at HA you'll find more senior crews on:

1. Turns (HNL-PPG-HNL, HNL-PPT-HNL)
2. International routes (only SYD when I was there...obviously alot more now).
3. US Mainland routes that can be hub-turns. Example day 1: HNL-SEA (layover); day 2 SEA-HNL-SMF (layover); day 3 SMF-HNL (F/As build these hub-turns themselves based on published schedules so only certain flights work based on the scheduled arrival/departure times and duty day length)

In the interisland operation the general split is AM and PM...AM seems to be a little more senior than PM. There are some senior folks who love interisland, some who hate it and some who fly it sometimes for a few extra hours, or because they need to be home at night. Its really nice that crews have alot of options.

My personal favorites were Interisland PM, and 2 day mainland trips (ie HNL-SEA (layover) SEA-HNL).

For pilots, they are obviously confined to a single aircraft type so they are either 717 (interisland); 767 (US & International) or A330 (US & International).

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
JetBlueGuy2006
Posts: 1482
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2006 5:38 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines Senority Question

Tue Feb 03, 2015 4:13 am

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 1):

Out of curiosity, how many turns will a typical fa/pilot make on a given day with interisland?

Do interisland crews usually work every day maybe AM on Monday and PM on Tuesday, ect.?

Probably one of the more interesting airlines to study from a lot of different angles
Home Airport: Capital Region International Airport (KLAN)
 
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aloha73g
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RE: Hawaiian Airlines Senority Question

Tue Feb 03, 2015 5:06 am

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 2):
Out of curiosity, how many turns will a typical fa/pilot make on a given day with interisland?

Most interisland pairings are 6, 7 or 8 landings. There are a few outliers with less than 6, and sometimes a 9 or rare 10 landing day. The pilots pairings are usually the same as the F/As, but sometimes on the longer pairings the pilots will switch partway thru.

Quoting JetBlueGuy2006 (Reply 2):
Do interisland crews usually work every day maybe AM on Monday and PM on Tuesday, ect.?

They work as often as they want to or need to make their hours. Some low-time F/As only need 37.5 hours/month. Thats about 8 or 9 days flying (most 6 landing days are slightly over 4 hours of "credit time," while the 8 landing days are around 6 hours "credit time"). Full time F/As work 75-85 credit hours a month on average (though some work up to well past a 100). Hawaiian is pretty flexible letting people drop & pick up as long as you stay legal with rest between duty periods and 24 in 7 (24 hours free from duty each 7 days)...basically they force you to have a day off once a week.

F/As can mix & match the AM & PM shifts on their workdays as they see fit as long they stay legal (you can't finish at 11pm on Monday and start again at 5am on Tuesday). Most people usually do AM or PM--but not both--because once you start one you usually aren't legal for the other until you've had a day off.

Some work weekends, some Monday thru Friday. Some do mainland trips on weekends and interisland on weekdays, or vice versa....its very flexible once you have enough seniority to be off reserve.

-Aloha!
Aloha Airlines - The Spirit Moves Us. Gone but NEVER Forgotten. Aloha, A Hui Hou!
 
INFINITI329
Posts: 2597
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2012 12:53 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines Senority Question

Tue Feb 03, 2015 6:39 am

Quoting aloha73g (Reply 1):
HA 767s have contract maintenance done in PHX

I think DL does the work if im not mistaken, what is the benefit of having the work done in PHX rather than HNL?
 
Sevensixtyseven
Topic Author
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 3:33 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines Senority Question

Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:07 am

Quoting infiniti329 (Reply 4):

They physically do not have the capability of doing any 767 maintenance in HNL.
I call the dusty desert my home. :)
 
HALFA
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines Senority Question

Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:20 am

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Thread starter):
Also...on Saturday, I saw N590HA parked in PHX after the day's HA35 was already departed using N587HA. What gives?

That aircraft was chartered by Paul Allen, the Billionaire Seahawks owner for a Vulcan INC. special Superbowl charter for his family and associates. It was operated as HA #0700 BFI-PHX, and returned on Monday afternoon as HA #0701 PHX-BFI.
As you may or may not know, Hawaiian Airlines flew the Seahawks to all of their away games for a few years until recently, when aircraft availability became an issue.

We are happy to maintain a good relationship with the Seahawks organization, and hopefully HA will be able to resume flying their team to games in the future.

Aloha,
HALFA
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
HAL
Posts: 1773
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 1:38 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines Senority Question

Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:31 am

Quoting Sevensixtyseven (Thread starter):
Also...on Saturday, I saw N590HA parked in PHX after the day's HA35 was already departed using N587HA. What gives?

It was a charter flight out of BFI in Seattle. http://flightaware.com/live/flight/H...1/history/20150202/2200Z/KPHX/KBFI

aloha73g is correct for FAs and what trips go senior, but the pilot trips go a little differently. For the widebody pilots, the turns (PPT & PPG) go senior some of the time, but there are very few senior pilots regularly bidding them. Some of them do go junior (like to me - two PPT turns in the last two months). In general, the longer the distance of the trip, the more senior it goes. For example, a three-day SYD trip pays twice what a three-day LAS trip pays. Most pilots are looking to get the most flying done in the least amount of time, so the longer trips are much more efficient than the shorter-distance ones. SYD, JFK, ICN, BNE and PEK are usually the most senior, with LAS and LAX at the bottom of the list.

But we do bid for trips by seniority, just as the FAs do. So the most senior pilot gets what he wants, and so on down the list. I've never flown interisland, so I'm not sure what trips go senior for them. I don't think there's as much variety for the 717 trips compared to the 767 or 330, so it's more a matter of which days off you get rather than the particular trips.

HAL
One smooth landing is skill. Two in a row is luck. Three in a row and someone is lying.
 
HALFA
Posts: 1070
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2004 8:24 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines Senority Question

Tue Feb 03, 2015 7:46 am

To answer your seniority question, all HA flights/trips are put to bid and awarded in order of seniority. The most senior HA flight attendant trip is a one day round trip from HNL-LAS-HNL. This flight operates on Wednesdays, Fridays, and Sundays as HA #006 and departs HNL at 0750 and arrives in LAS at 1530. The return flight operates as HA #005 and departs LAS at 1710 and arrives back in HNL at 2130. The total credit time is 12 hours, but with extra contractual provisions for extended duty periods, the trip is usually worth at least 14 hours of flight pay. Our most senior flight attendants bid for this trip and they will usually work 8 of these trips per month for an average of 112 block (credit) hours per month, and 22 days off. It's a very long day, but well worth it if you like being home every night.
The average seniority for this trip is 40+ years!

Aloha,
HALFA
Hawaiian Airlines Since 1929...........
 
Sevensixtyseven
Topic Author
Posts: 264
Joined: Mon May 30, 2011 3:33 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines Senority Question

Sat Feb 07, 2015 12:31 am

Wow! Thank you for the information. It's interesting in how HA is unique in so many different ways.
I call the dusty desert my home. :)
 
flyboy80
Posts: 2125
Joined: Fri Jul 13, 2001 8:10 am

RE: Hawaiian Airlines Senority Question

Sat Feb 07, 2015 2:24 am

Can I ask what Hawaiians duty rigs, and duty day scheduling limitations/ rest are for FAs?

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