sandyb123
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Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:52 pm

So I'm probably going to get shot down in flames for posting this. And being a killjoy.

We've all seen there is more photos of extreme low approaches to SXM over maho beach this week. The latest, an E190 demonstrator is seen just meters off the deck flying over crowds of onlookers.

The angle of the photo probably exacerbates the low altitude, but with so many people on the beach and the seemingly relentless ego trip to skim the perimeter fence, I worry this wreckless competition will end in tears...


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TK787
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Tue Feb 03, 2015 11:55 pm

I don't think there is anything wrong with the angle of the photo. It is pretty much eye level, looking up ever so slightly. It could even look scarier if the photo was taken from the sidewalk to the right.
 
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northwestEWR
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:06 am

That almost looks Photoshopped he's so low. Safety concern? Yes. Will they do anything about it until someone gets seriously injured? Probably not. This is part of the attractive of the island and I certainly hope a flight crew doesn't try to show off and ruin it for everyone else.
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:13 am

Quoting sandyb123 (Thread starter):
wreckless

So long as the competition remains wreckless, no tears will be shed   

---
Do you have any evidence that crews are trying to one-up each other on low approaches, or is it just a fact of life that sometimes crews get a little low on approach (I know I do)?
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sandyb123
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:19 am

Quoting skyhawkmatthew (Reply 3):

Quoting sandyb123 (Thread starter):
wreckless

So long as the competition remains wreckless, no tears will be shed

---
Do you have any evidence that crews are trying to one-up each other on low approaches, or is it just a fact of life that sometimes crews get a little low on approach (I know I do)?

I've never seen anything like it elsewhere and its fairly famous for low approaches! I think the 'evidence' speaks for itself.

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LAX772LR
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:30 am

Quoting sandyb123 (Thread starter):
I worry this wreckless competition will end in tears.

It's guaranteed to happen sooner or later, with that island's setup.

And I'm sure parties on all sides know that. Which is why I've often wondered if the SXM authorities just plan to ride this out as long as they can, until the inevitable happens, and then have to reluctantly crack down on the Maho activities.

Of course, both they and we all know, that the instant they do-- will be the instant that SXM becomes "just another dot in the Caribbean." There are sooooo many people who have heard of, and who pay good money to come to, that island specifically because of the airport and its related activities. Even non-spotters have it on their bucket lists.

Combine that with the 1-2 punch of Cuba possibly opening to Americans (and their money) soon, and it could be devastating to SXM's economy.

Hmm, I wonder what their liability insurance is like.  
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:36 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):

Some how I really doubt that most people visit SXM just to see low approaching planes. While there its just something else to do.

In addition if the development of Cancun and Punta Cana (DR) didn't destroy SXM, why should Cuba. That island cannot accommodate millions more tourists from the USA, and that isn't going to happen for some time yet.
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:04 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):
It's guaranteed to happen sooner or later

Literally everything possible is guaranteed to happen "sooner or later" - that's the nature of the universe. But the fact is SXM has been operating like this for decades. Some flights just come in lower than others. The difference now is that everybody's got a digital camera and there's wifi all over the island. We see every single low approach now, whereas 20 years ago you'd have never known or thought anything about this.
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:42 am

Quoting guyanam (Reply 6):
Some how I really doubt that most people visit SXM just to see low approaching planes.

I don't recall anyone saying that "most" people visit "just" for that....... so not sure what your point in stating such is.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 7):
Literally everything possible is guaranteed to happen "sooner or later"

Indeed, which is why I said it.  

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 7):
But the fact is SXM has been operating like this for decades.

Which means nothing. They could have a tragic fatality tomorrow, or they could go on like this for decades more before it happens. But it definitely will happen, which as you said, is the nature of these things.

The question I'm posing is not that, but rather: 1) what will the reaction be and 2) how extensively will it infringe upon the enthusiast activities? Neither of which are unreasonable to consider.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:08 am

My wife and I have visited SXM primarily to visit the airport and I know several other people who have gone to SXM to check
out the airport. Loved the Island by the way and plan to return.
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:27 am

That is either a photoshop picture or the angle is tricking the eye. Using simple spatial reckoning, that airplane crashed about 200 yards short of the runway.

It's a fake.
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aklrno
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:35 am

I guess I can understand a 747 landing as close to the runway threshold as they can, its a short runway for them. But an E190? Its runway requirement for takeoff at MTOW is about 300 meters shorter than the runway at SXM. Shouldn't the landing requirement be much shorter? Are the pilots just saving as much runway as possible in case they need to go around without hitting the hills at the other end?

No matter what the show they may want to give the people on the beach, they owe a lot more to their passengers.
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:39 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 8):

Your claim that the instant that SXM puts limits on people to view low landing planes, it will become a "just another spot in the Caribbean". Explain what you meant by that.
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:02 am

Quoting guyanam (Reply 6):
Some how I really doubt that most people visit SXM just to see low approaching planes. While there its just something else to do.

My wife wanted to take a cruise this summer...and I am not a sun/beach person, but mountains person. However, I agreed to go if we could visit SXM and spend the afternoon at Maho from 12-4 when the big birds come in. The rest of the time on the cruise is for her/the kids.
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:06 am

Quoting guyanam (Reply 12):
Your claim that the instant that SXM puts limits on people to view low landing planes, it will become a "just another spot in the Caribbean". Explain what you meant by that

Already did dude. Again:

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):
There are sooooo many people who have heard of, and who pay good money to come to, that island specifically because of the airport and its related activities. Even non-spotters have it on their bucket lists.

Combine that with the 1-2 punch of Cuba possibly opening to Americans (and their money) soon, and it could be devastating to SXM's economy.

Does that say that "most" people only visit SXM "just" for the airport? ...No.
Does that say no one will visit SXM anymore? ...Nope.
Does that say that a majority will alter their SXM plans? ....Nah.

Does that mean that the loss of one of its most unique advertising/attraction elements could trigger any given percentage drop in visitors, which itself can have a very negative effect on its sensitive tourist-driven economy? ....there ya go! See? Not hard.  

[Edited 2015-02-03 19:07:53]
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
n797mx
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 3:22 am

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 4):
I've never seen anything like it elsewhere and its fairly famous for low approaches! I think the 'evidence' speaks for itself.

Skiathos, Greece has 'em low too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWetojC0ul0
Clear skies and strong tail winds.
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 4:54 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 14):

People go to SXM for all sorts of reasons and if they can no longer spot planes landing so low that they get sand blasted they will find something else to do.
It will remain a 36 square mile island attracting 500k visitors from the USA, Europe, the Caribbean and Latin America. The 7% increase in arrivals for 2014 isn't just because people just heard about the thrills of seeing people trying to jump up and touch the planes as they land.

Even if 5% of the visitors stop going because they cannot play Russian roulette with plans the 475k left hardly makes it "just a spot in the Caribbean". It still remains one of the more popular destinations.

[Edited 2015-02-03 21:08:03]
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 5:17 am

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 8):
They could have a tragic fatality tomorrow

And so could literally any other airport. Which is why I said that anything that *could* happen eventually will, given enough time. SXM is no different from anywhere else. Literally the only unique thing about SXM is the beach. But every airport in the world has buildings, highways, etc. that planes can crash into as they're taking off and landing. That's no different.

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 8):
1) what will the reaction be and 2) how extensively will it infringe upon the enthusiast activities? Neither of which are unreasonable to consider.

No more or less unreasonable to consider whether they'll shut down and re-route Conduit Avenue in New York City when an airplane inevitably crashes into it. But how many threads do we have about that?
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:02 am

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 17):
And so could literally any other airport.

Perhaps, but to clarify:
I was specifically referring to a spectator fatality, in an area that the aviation authority has already (and continues to) publicly warn of a heightened risk of injury/death.

That's not the (tortious) equivalent of a random fatality happening in a randomly proximate area of some airport, with lower foreseeability of occurrence.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 6:27 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 10):
that airplane crashed about 200 yards short of the runway.

That airplane is already well under 200 yards from the runway... unless that was your point.
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:16 am

Perhaps someone can explain the following;

If Maho Beach was not there, how would this island compare with other islands in the area.
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:39 am

Quoting bennett123 (Reply 20):

If you want a small island under 4 hours from NYC with beaches, restaurants, casinos, varied nightlife, duty free shopping, full range of sun and sea activities and the ability to combine a hectic side (Dutch side) with laid back side (French side).

That might suit you and it might not. Each island has its attractions. The fact is that Maho beach isn't this major attraction that some make it out to be. I don't even think that it was even known before the cell phone craze. Its just something to do in the afternoon at a bar. SXM is most known as a time share destination,

[Edited 2015-02-04 02:41:10]
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:01 am

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 10):
That is either a photoshop picture or the angle is tricking the eye. Using simple spatial reckoning, that airplane crashed about 200 yards short of the runway.

It's about 30m short of runway tarmac and less than 200m to the piano keys.

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 10):
It's a fake.

I very much doubt it. If you really think it is a fake, then tell the screeners here, because they don't think it is.
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offloaded
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:59 am

This is a E190 demonstrator flight, not a regular pax flight, so maybe an extra low approach at SXM was part of the publicity?
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:19 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 21):
If you want a small island under 4 hours from NYC with beaches, restaurants, casinos, varied nightlife, duty free shopping, full range of sun and sea activities and the ability to combine a hectic side (Dutch side) with laid back side (French side).

That might suit you and it might not. Each island has its attractions. The fact is that Maho beach isn't this major attraction that some make it out to be. I don't even think that it was even known before the cell phone craze. Its just something to do in the afternoon at a bar. SXM is most known as a time share destination,

Exactly, I like SXM, not as much as I like St Lucia, but way more than I like Barbados. Each island has it's quirks for sure.

Something to remember, from looking at that picture, the mains are about head height with some of the people on the beach, which means he ended up in the fence, anyone hear about an aircraft taking out the fence at SXM ? no me either, it's just one of those shots where the view point of the lens alters the picture.

And yes, this will carry on, until someone ends up with a tire print on their forehead, then there may be changes.
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:38 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):
Of course, both they and we all know, that the instant they do-- will be the instant that SXM becomes "just another dot in the Caribbean." There are sooooo many people who have heard of, and who pay good money to come to, that island specifically because of the airport and its related activities. Even non-spotters have it on their bucket lists.

We'll be there the day after tomorrow.  
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aerosol
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 12:40 pm

Having been to SXM I have to say, except for aviation this island has not much to offer - ok there is a Dutch and a French side.

Further it remains in my memory for the slowest immigration (and I live in a EU country) and the longest time I have ever waited for my baggage.

St. Barth of course outclasses SM in every aspect.

My 2 cents....
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:22 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 14):
Does that say that "most" people only visit SXM "just" for the airport? ...No.
Does that say no one will visit SXM anymore? ...Nope.
Does that say that a majority will alter their SXM plans? ....Nah.

Uhhhhm , it is EXACTLY what you did imply, sir:

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):
. . . and it could be devastating to SXM's economy.
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 1:35 pm

I've been there twice.

It is an awesome setup that boosts the local economy of the island.

And certainly, there are a large contingent of people that go there just to see Maho.

Beyond the planes the beach is a tiny, narrow, steep strip of sand.

Beyond the tourist attraction, I'm sorry if I offend any St Martin lovers, the people were down right nasty on this island. Slow, indifferent island attitude coupled with a chip on the shoulder. When American (nationality not airline) flight attendants are a breath of fresh air while boarding the flight home, that says a lot about the people you were dealing with while on vacation.

Go visit the beach from a cruise ship...and if you do stay, avoid that Sonesta that appears in every photo. Seriously.
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:08 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 18):
That's not the (tortious) equivalent of a random fatality happening in a randomly proximate area of some airport, with lower foreseeability of occurrence.

So is it more likely that an aircraft would crash on that beach, than crashing in downtown NYC when on approach or departure to LGA, JFK, etc? ..with far more fatalities if it hit a building or landed in a residential area.

I could think of a lot more worse places for an aircraft to crash prior to landing.

Quoting spacecadet (Reply 17):
No more or less unreasonable to consider whether they'll shut down and re-route Conduit Avenue in New York City when an airplane inevitably crashes into it. But how many threads do we have about that?

Exactly!


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RL757PVD
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:25 pm

If you think SXM is bad, go stand by the roundabout on the hill approaching the SBH Runway...

Part of the secret to SXM is the deceiving camera angles. That said, there were two biz jets when I was there last week that were lower that the thread opener pic and perhaps the lowest i've seen in 5 trips there. The airline tend to be pretty standard and consistent in their approach but the business jets will sometimes show off and that is the highest risk in my opinion. There was a G-V and a sovereign a few weeks ago that were noticeably setting up there approach to come in as fast and low as possible.

For those bashing the Island itself, one of the reasons I go back is that you are not confined to the resort like you are in Jamaica or the DR, its easy to rent a car and get around, and I have always found the locals to be pleasant and friendly. If you want an island thats all luxury and no plight at all (so sorry we had to remind you about how the other half live) then go to St. Barth and pay the premium for it.
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 2:41 pm

No way he or her is clearing the fence if the aircraft was truly that low. No news of an aircraft hitting the fence, so I think this is an aberration.
 
gatechae
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:08 pm

You also have to remember that telephoto lenses can do some weird stuff to perspective in photos. Without knowing what lense this photog was using its hard to tell how close the plane actually is to the people.

http://media-3.web.britannica.com/eb-media/86/3486-004-D81AEC93.jpg
 
PlymSpotter
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:50 pm

That approach was either intentional and dangerously low, or seriously negligent. An E190 has no need to land that early at SXM - I mean the thing even has its ability to land on short runways painted on the fuselage, with the reference to LCY.

It looks increasingly clear that there are a few pilots who intentionally fly as low as possible, and line up as near to the fence as possible at SXM. It's all good fun until somebody makes a slight mistake and then carnage - really is getting silly now.

Quoting IMissPiedmont (Reply 10):

That is either a photoshop picture or the angle is tricking the eye. Using simple spatial reckoning, that airplane crashed about 200 yards short of the runway.
Quoting william (Reply 31):

No way he or her is clearing the fence if the aircraft was truly that low. No news of an aircraft hitting the fence, so I think this is an aberration.
Quoting gatechae (Reply 32):

You also have to remember that telephoto lenses can do some weird stuff to perspective in photos. Without knowing what lense this photog was using its hard to tell how close the plane actually is to the people.

You can actually make a reasonably accurate assessment - the picture gives you just about everything you need to know.

We know the E190 has a fuseelage height of 3.35m, and this picture is broadly side on. We know what part of the picture the plane was directly above, by using the angle/length of the shadows cast by people and relating this to the shadow of the plane's tail. This information can then be used to work out a reasonably accurate approximation of how high it was.

Using this process, at that point I would say the landing gear is approximately 5-6m above sea level. The threshold of the runway is at 4m elevation. So yes it must have passed ridiculously low over the beach and fence - it is worth noting that there is a slight downward slope towards the sea, so the top of the fence isn't actually much higher than the threshold itself. But it can't have cleared it by much.

Utter stupidity. I can't imagine Embraer are pleased at all, they take safety seriously.


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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:05 pm

Quoting aerosol (Reply 26):
Having been to SXM I have to say, except for aviation this island has not much to offer - ok there is a Dutch and a French side.

Oh.

I'd go back to St. Martin (French side) in a heartbeat for the wonderful food at the many restaurants of Grand Case and the tiny but fun L'Esperance airport there.

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LAX772LR
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:05 pm

Quoting PW100 (Reply 27):
Uhhhhm , it is EXACTLY what you did imply, sir:

Wrong. That's what you assumed. Big difference.

Quoting bond007 (Reply 29):
So is it more likely that an aircraft would crash on that beach, than crashing in downtown NYC when on approach or departure to LGA, JFK, etc? ..with far more fatalities if it hit a building or landed in a residential area.

Would be a wayyyy differen't matter in court. For the situation you described: you don't have significant numbers of people congregating in those specific areas for the primary purpose of being near or interacting with aircraft; you don't have NY/NYC government-owned agencies promoting those areas, you don't have prior related accidents that have already invoked a duty to warn about being in those locations, you don't have people with a necessity (i.e. work/occupation) to be in those specific areas, etc etc etc.
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
YULWinterSkies
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:13 pm

The accident waiting to happen at SXM is not about a plane crashing on the road or on the beach (this is statistically just as unlikely as most other airports), but a bunch of (drunk?) tourists getting thrown off the ground while 'riding' the wind that is created by one of the larger jets about to take off.
Some people have been thrown off their feet before by doing this...
One day, one might fatally smash their head on a concrete structure of some sort. That will be an accident, indeed. And this is far more likely than a jet crashing upon landing there.
When I doubt... go running!
 
ORDJOE
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:41 pm

I have been to this beach, and it slopes downward more than you would think as you are getting closer to the water. I think that the camera person was probably close to the water and lower to the ground to make an optical illusion.


In all fairness the govt warns people about this with signs and people still chose to go. I think it is the right way to handle this.
 
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PW100
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:41 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 35):
Wrong. That's what you assumed. Big difference

Maybe I should stop using these forums.

Apparently my English language skills, being not my mother tongue, are grossly lacking to understand what you are trying to communicate in your mother language. It must be me.

Wonder how many other folks did not understand what you were trying to communicate to us in Reply 5 . . .
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:49 pm

Quoting sandyb123 (Reply 4):
I've never seen anything like it elsewhere and its fairly famous for low approaches!

Perhaps not every airport has a beach at the end of it, but there are literally hundreds of airports that have low approaches - you just have to know where to stand!  

My point being: you can stand on Rockaway Blvd near JFK and watch large jets lining up to land on 22L (when the wind is right, and the cops may not like it., but..) Standing on the bridge/causeway near CFU and you can watch low approaches to that airport. It might not be as dramatic as SXM but it's close.

My point is that SXM is only unique because of the beach and the fact the public are basically encouraged to watch planes from this area. Most landings are not nearly as low as the Embraer in the original post - not sure if that was done on purpose (photo op?) or perhaps it speaks to the pilots lack of familiarity with the airport. Most approaches come in over the beach at 100-200 feet by my estimation, although there have clearly been some that have been well below this altitude.
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 8:50 pm

Quoting PW100 (Reply 38):
Apparently my English language skills, being not my mother tongue, are grossly lacking to understand what you are trying to communicate in your mother language. It must be me.

I don't think it's you.

I lived in St. Martin for a year and never went to Maho, except to drive through to get somewhere else.

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AAlaxfan
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:34 pm

Picture looks photo-shopped to me. Look at the little girl playing in the sand near the water. Above her is a shadow of a landing aircraft. Based on the direction of the shadows of the people on the beach, the landing aircraft isn't in the picture yet.
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richierich
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:39 pm

Quoting AAlaxfan (Reply 41):
Picture looks photo-shopped to me. Look at the little girl playing in the sand near the water. Above her is a shadow of a landing aircraft. Based on the direction of the shadows of the people on the beach, the landing aircraft isn't in the picture yet.

Have you been to SXM? There would be no need to photo shop.

Quoting mariner (Reply 40):
I lived in St. Martin for a year and never went to Maho, except to drive through to get somewhere else.

Seriously? Not even once? C'mon on....
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 9:50 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 42):
Have you been to SXM? There would be no need to photo shop.

No, I have not, but wish to, only to see SXM. However, my comments are based solely on the picture being discussed in this thread. I stand by my conclusion of this picture, the angle of the shadows do not match.
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:10 pm

Quoting richierich (Reply 42):
Seriously? Not even once? C'mon on....

Seriously. Not even once. I was living and working there, I wasn't on vacation and often had a good, if a bit more distant, view of aircraft coming in from our house. I didn't feel any need to go to over-crowded Maho.

I thought the view of take-offs, from the hill to the east of the airport, was pretty good too - watching the big jets turn quite hard to avoid the hill.

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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:19 pm

Quoting guyanam (Reply 21):
The fact is that Maho beach isn't this major attraction that some make it out to be.

This is true for those who are not aviation enthusiasts. We, on the other hand, see it as a key, maybe even main, element to the attractiveness of the island. And yes, we're in the minority pretty much everywhere except hereabouts...
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 10:34 pm

Quoting LAX772LR (Reply 5):
Combine that with the 1-2 punch of Cuba possibly opening to Americans (and their money) soon, and it could be devastating to SXM's economy.

Others have addressed Maho Beach's relative lack of importance to St Marteen's tourism economy. Sure, people make it a point to do that, when they do visit the island, but for the vast majority, it's not a reason to go there.

As to Cuba… if the USA were to allow tourist travel to Cuba, and that's still an if, I expect there will be an initial surge of curious Americans sampling the "forbidden fruit," as it were. Once that blush wore off, I would expect things to mostly return to the current status quo.

Cuba's resorts are a decidedly on the dated side, and stripping and gambling are illegal, although there is prostitution. I actually think many Americans wouldn't like Cuba that much. One factor is a noticeable Cuban public dislike of the USA. Also, Cuba currently actually attracts a healthy portion of visitors who go there because they can avoid American tourists. Even if US policy changes, I don't think Cuba will bend over backwards to court American tourists. Because of these factors, I don't think Americans would wind up going there all that much. Ergo, I don't think a change in US policy towards Cuba would ultimately do much to change the economy of the Caribbean. Now… if the USA were to allow the import of Cuban rum and cigars, THAT might have a more serious economic impact.

I think St Maarten's economy is pretty safe from Cuba, and not at risk were Maho Beach to be closed. Of course, speaking personally, I'd still like to go there, so I hope they don't close it. Or, I could go to JSI! I do like greek food…
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:05 pm



Quoting PW100 (Reply 38):
in your mother language. It must be me.

English is my "mother language?" Interesting, considering that I didn't even start speaking it until age 6-- ironic, considering that we were *just* on the topic of you assuming too much.  

Quoting aerolimani (Reply 46):
Others have addressed Maho Beach's relative lack of importance to St Marteen's tourism economy.

Addressed it? Not really... all people here (on both sides) have done is toss around opinions, with nothing authoritative to back it up.

All I'm saying is I see no reason why the islands' official tourism promotion board would constantly promote it among the top things on the island to do, if it wasn't a big pull for them. Who else touts "come see our airport!" among their front-page draws?
I myself, suspect a more prosaic motive... ~Thranduil
 
guyanam
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:13 pm

.

Quoting aerosol (Reply 26):

Dont think that normal adults spend thousands of $$ just to see planes take off, so obviously something there interests them. SXM is for some. SBH for others. SXM is tacky (Dutch side), and SBH too glitzy and totally not Caribbean.

Jamaica ,The DR, and Cuba (for those who can visit). Given the poverty in those islands you will be locked in an all inclusive unless you are adventurous, or are from the Caribbean, so know your way around.

ANU, BGI, SKB, GND, SLU. Smaller islands so more laid back I personally prefer SXM to STT. SBH doesnt interest me in the least. Too expensive and not even remotely Caribbean. I might go for the day from SXM to say that I have been, but that is about it.

Quoting jfklganyc (Reply 28):

I am 100% sure that the people who you met werent locals, once you left the airport. 80% of the population is either from some where else in the Caribbean, from France, the USA or India/China. Even more if you consider those who a normal tourist would meet. This is especially true on the Dutch. On French side the locals who a tourist will meet will be the taxi drivers. So most of the people who work in SXM do not have a vested interest in that island.

Quoting PW100 (Reply 38):

Your English is perfectly fine. He made a comment and then when called up on it, he is pretending otherwise. I know that we all have an interest in aviation here, but seriously, most adults arent going to select an island just to see planes land.

Quoting mariner (Reply 40):

Thank you. SXM isnt for every one, especially if you just stay on the Dutch side. To appreciate the island you have to leverage the restaurants on the French side, and the more relaxing environment, and keep the Dutch side to shop and party.

Quoting AAlaxfan (Reply 41):

It is photo shop I suggest that folks go to youtube to see how high the fence is. The danger isnt the plane hitting some one. It is the debris from the blast when jets take off. Even if it is a pebble that blwo what still do serious damage, and that is if people arent thrown to the ground, landing on a hard object.
 
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RE: Has SXM Beach Bashing Gone Too Far?

Wed Feb 04, 2015 11:58 pm

Quoting AAlaxfan (Reply 41):
Picture looks photo-shopped to me. Look at the little girl playing in the sand near the water. Above her is a shadow of a landing aircraft. Based on the direction of the shadows of the people on the beach, the landing aircraft isn't in the picture yet.


Those are my thoughts too. Given that angles of telephoto lenses as has been said, plus angle of taking a picture, plus whatever normal processing takes place before it goes to airliners.net I hesitate to call it photoshopped. Especially since the photographer already has a whole lot of pics on A.net. What would be the motivation?

Since I wasn't there and digital photographs can "lie" even without photoshopping, I for one will not call anyone out, but

If I factor in that the airplane is above the ground, and not on the ground, this would actually displace the shadow to the right I believe. I think it would also lengthen the shadow a bit. I think someone who is more of an expert can weigh in.

This pic is a similar pic with the plane a bit higher but the spectators shadows have a very similar angle. I don't see a shadow from the plane at all.


If you look at the enlarged pic, just below the mains, there is a woman throwing up her hands and with her back to the camera. B/c angles lie, I don't think she is directly below the pic, but rather on the other side, so one would think she would be lookng @ the plane and not in the opposite direction - but it could be that someone is taking a picture of her. The wheels on the mains (esp around the palm trees) look a bit too clean of a contrast. This is what my photoshopped jobs often looked like. The bottom of the right engine however, seems to be reflecting something yellowish and there *is* a yellow towel below and to the right.

Also the little girl is playing and NOT looking up, which seems to me to be incredibly blasé for a child.

I just don't know.
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